Date   

Re: Reciprocal switching

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Kurt Laughlin writes:

"Nothing close to it, eh? Here's some recent quotes, selected quickly for
relevance and not to pick on anyone:"

"About all it takes to be "a expert" on the internet is to buy a computer."

And, of course, that comment is mine. Unfortunately, my experience has shown it to be true. You should NOT, however, assume...and while I'll let others speak for themselves, I have a feeling that they will agree with me...that I was speaking of the STMFC. One of the reasons why I insist that members sign their real names on the STMFC is that it suggests that a member is prepared to support any comment they might make...and they are identified with it. It doesn't mean they are always correct but it does mean that they try to be. Regretfully...IMO...most of the internet permits...even encourages the use of aliases, presumably to provide anonymity. I belong to several groups managed that way...non RR oriented...and the content of most posts is such as to believe them at your own perile.

Mind you, just because something is delivered via a media that has editing does not guarantee anything beyond "hope" that the subject is "accurate". I attempted twice to "enlighten" the staff at Trains and Classic Trains [ which is one of my favorite publications ] regarding "errors" [ IMO ]about certain steam locomotives written by rather well published authors...to no avail...even though I presented facts from other authors writing in Trains [ Lloyd Stagner no less ]. I finally presented my case in of all places...the INTERNET. So...in some cases, the internet wins. I will note, however, that Model Railroading News did publish a few similar comments.

You might also note my question to the group regarding the painting of running boards...in which my observations seems to disagree with a comment by the very respected author Pat Wider.

So...relax. No one is taking shots at anyone in particular...unless maybe at me...and I'm used to it because I have a big target on my back.

Mike Brock


Re: Seaboard Air Line IMWX boxcar

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

Ed,



Thank you for the information and the reminder of the great info that you
and others have compiled on the site. I just visited the site and enjoyed
reviewing the info there.



Allen


Re: Truck roof walk help NP 1937 AAR

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

8 rung ladders! I missed that. Built the kit at a show this weekend and the
RMJ was here at home. Darn. Going to have to fix that.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@att.net>
Did you put on eight rung ladders?


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

David Smith
 

Apparently, at least 10 were owned and operated by the Federal Government
(Dept. of Commerce), but were largely replaced by trucks in the 30s and were
out of operation by 1947 http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/fishcar.Html
A picture of a Montana state car accompanies the Wikipedia entry on stock
cars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_car_(rail) Fry (juvenile fish) were
shipped cross-country as well as locally. They apparently mostly traveled
in passenger consists, to expedite their journey.

Dave Smith


On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Schuyler Larrabee <
schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net> wrote:

Exactly what I was talking about. Except I think that GN had some of
their own. You're right
though, the car I was thinking of was owned by the Pennsylvania Department
of Fish and Game, or the
equivalent.

SGL

Gary, Schuyler,

Fish for your dining table in reefers. Shellfish in express reefers. Live
fish traveled in Pullman type cars,
usually owned by the state they operated in. These were for stocking
rivers and lakes. Many RRs
hauled these cars back
in the day.

Fred Freitas

--- On Sun, 12/7/08, Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net<schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net>
<mailto:schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net<schuyler.larrabee%2540verizon.net>>

wrote:

From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net<schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net><mailto:
schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net <schuyler.larrabee%2540verizon.net>> >
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Car Types for Team Tracks
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
STMFC%40yahoogroups.com <STMFC%2540yahoogroups.com>>
Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:29 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: gary laakso

2- fish; refrigerator cars?
Well, reefers if they're dead fish (I should hope so!). But they may have
been live fish for
stocking lakes and streams. I know several railroads had fish hatchery
cars (there may be a better
more accurate term), and that the GN was one of them. PRR and LV both had
them, I think. Probably
others. These carried hatchlings from fish hatcheries to the locations
where they were to be
"delivered."

SGL








--
David L. Smith
Da Vinci Science Center
Allentown, PA
http://www.davinci-center.org

Please consider the environment before printing this email.

Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was
listening, everything must be said again. -- Andre Gide


Re: Truck roof walk help NP 1937 AAR

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Self-aligning, spring plankless, double truss 50 ton trucks. The next
truck from Tahoe Model Works.

Did you put on eight rung ladders?

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

-- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

I am trying to finish off two models and need some help with the
trucks. I
am working on an NP 1937 AAR boxcar. The kit comes with trucks with
Spring
planks. I have the July 1991 RMJ which has an article by Ed hawkins.
However
the photo is so small the trucks are tough to see. I think they are
spring
plankless trucks.

Also the kit comes with a wood roof walk Did these cars keep a wood
roof
walk their entire lives? Thanks.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Box car running boards...painted or not?

Walter M. Clark
 

Mike,

Check the archives. Specifically a thread beginning with message
#19373 (May 22, 2003) and another beginning with message #72470 (May
6, 2008). I remembered those because I started both threads <g>.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

While researching another item, I was somewhat surprised to note in
the RP
Cyc, Vol 3, article by Pat Wider that the bottoms of the wood floors
of box
cars of our period were not painted. I'm certainly not knowledgeable
about
the resistance
to rot of wood used in box cars in the 40's but I can't imagine
leaving a
piece of wood unpainted...on the bottom of a box car or the
underside of the
eave of a house...either of those being in the state of Florida for
a few
months. It is hard to dispute the photo in the article however.

Pat also notes that wood running boards were usually left unpainted.
This,
of course, has been commented on before on the STMFC but I think
it's worth
a review. Looking at my favorite color photo of box cars of our
period from
above...namely Jack Delano's shot of C&NW's Proviso yard as seen on the
cover of Mainline Modeler...May '92...I can see no paintless running
board
among the many box cars present. Included are C&NW, M&STL, SR,
Monon, UP,
PR, PE and Mil.

Photos of frt cars are often taken from the ground...giving no view
of the
running board.

Mike Brock


Re: Truck roof walk help NP 1937 AAR

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 7, 2008, at 6:48 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I am trying to finish off two models and need some help with the
trucks. I
am working on an NP 1937 AAR boxcar. The kit comes with trucks with
Spring
planks. I have the July 1991 RMJ which has an article by Ed
hawkins. However
the photo is so small the trucks are tough to see. I think they are
spring
plankless trucks.






AAR self-aligning spring-plankless.

Also the kit comes with a wood roof walk Did these cars keep a wood
roof
walk their entire lives?



Yes. I have photos of them after rebuilding and renumbering in the
1960s and they still had wood running boards.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: NYC Lot 859-B

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Thanks, wow, pretty late for trucks with spring planks. However, I have seen
other NYC 1950's era 50' cars with them. They must have reused them off
older cars since these cars were built by Despatch.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC Lot 859-B


On Dec 7, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I am working on a NYC lot 859-B boxcar (50' Branchline single door
boxcar).
I can't find a photo in my sources of the car. Does anyone know
what trucks
the car had?




AAR cast steel with spring planks. In HO I'd use the new Tahoe
Buckeye trucks.

Richard Hendrickson






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: NYC Lot 859-B

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 7, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I am working on a NYC lot 859-B boxcar (50' Branchline single door
boxcar).
I can't find a photo in my sources of the car. Does anyone know
what trucks
the car had?




AAR cast steel with spring planks. In HO I'd use the new Tahoe
Buckeye trucks.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Carbody Window Screens

Walter M. Clark
 

Bob,

Check out http://www.smallparts.com/ and look at filters. They have
an enormous assortment of filters, and you should be able to find
something that would work.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, chapbob@... wrote:

Does anyone have a favorite product to recommend for HO scale window
screens
as found on cabooses, camp cars, etc.?

What I'm looking for is a fine mesh, but not so fine as to totally
hide the
window behind it.

Thanks!
Bob Chapman
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)




Re: Reciprocal switching, not bitching

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Yes, but as you know, the shipper can only choose a route that
is part of the published tariff. So it still begs the question
of why the owner of the track would accept a simple fee instead
of a generous percentage of the entire bill...
I think what we're missing is this was likely initially imposed by the
ICC, most likely after some railroad refused to participate in a
tariff where they were severely short hauled, and a customer (or many
customers) complained that they could spit and hit a second railroad
from their loading dock; why couldn't they ship via that road. It was
always advantageous for the customer to NOT be captive to one road;
even when rates were fixed, there was still the issue of car supply.
The ICC usually took the side of the customer,

As has been mentioned by others, the reciprocal part was that each
road gained access to more customers, without actually having to pay
much or anything; like per diem, each road submitted their aggregate
bill on a monthly basis, and they settled with a payment for the
difference.


Dennis


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Exactly what I was talking about. Except I think that GN had some of their own. You're right
though, the car I was thinking of was owned by the Pennsylvania Department of Fish and Game, or the
equivalent.

SGL

Gary, Schuyler,

Fish for your dining table in reefers. Shellfish in express reefers. Live
fish traveled in Pullman type cars,
usually owned by the state they operated in. These were for stocking rivers and lakes. Many RRs
hauled these cars back
in the day.

Fred Freitas

--- On Sun, 12/7/08, Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net
<mailto:schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net> >
wrote:

From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net <mailto:schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net> >
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Car Types for Team Tracks
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:29 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: gary laakso

2- fish; refrigerator cars?
Well, reefers if they're dead fish (I should hope so!). But they may have been live fish for
stocking lakes and streams. I know several railroads had fish hatchery cars (there may be a better
more accurate term), and that the GN was one of them. PRR and LV both had them, I think. Probably
others. These carried hatchlings from fish hatcheries to the locations where they were to be
"delivered."

SGL






Re: Lifelike Fowler CN

Walter Cox
 

Hi Jim, This car is actually a model of a CP car rather than a CN. I
don't know what type of lettetring CP was using in 1929 but there is a
CP sig where you could get such info. I model CN (1959) so I'm not
familiar with what the lettering looked like in 1929 but I think I
could dig it up if you need it. I picked up a pair of CP shells and the
only underframes that I have found so far that would fit are
Westerfield, Speedwitch and an old MDC 36' boxcar which would need
would need work. I don,know if any of them are available separately.
Walt


-- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "red_gate_rover" <red_gate_rover@...>
wrote:

In an impulse purchase I picked up a LifeLike Canada Fowler boxcar. It
came without the underframe and trucks. What underframe could I use
and whose trucks would be right? Also the shell is painted and
lettered for CN but has no data. Who sells data and other markings for
this car and what resource do I need to know where things should go?
I model 1929. As always, thank you. -Jim


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Gary, Schuyler,
 
                      Fish for your dining table in reefers. Shellfish in express reefers. Live fish traveled in Pullman type cars, usually owned by the state they operated in. These were for stocking rivers and lakes. Many RRs hauled these cars back in the day.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Sun, 12/7/08, Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net> wrote:

From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Car Types for Team Tracks
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:29 PM








-----Original Message-----
From: gary laakso

2- fish; refrigerator cars?
Well, reefers if they're dead fish (I should hope so!). But they may have been live fish for
stocking lakes and streams. I know several railroads had fish hatchery cars (there may be a better
more accurate term), and that the GN was one of them. PRR and LV both had them, I think. Probably
others. These carried hatchlings from fish hatcheries to the locations where they were to be
"delivered."

SGL















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Reciprocal switching

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Nothing close to it, eh? Here's some recent quotes, selected quickly for relevance and not to pick on anyone:

"I wonder where I did get the bogus information? Oh, I remember! Off the internet. Burned again!"

"About all it takes to be "a expert" on the internet is to buy a computer."

"This reminds me of the old saw about if you let a group of monkeys play with typewriters long enough they will end up writing the great American novel, by pure random chance. >>I must comment that this has been disproven by the mere existence of the internet.... :)"

Well, maybe you didn't read those. . .

The response to my post sounds pretty defensive given that I was so clearly way off base. It also describes my post as a misrepresentation but goes on to say that, "Many of us, however, tend to distrust information found on the internet unless there is ample corroboration. There's a fair amount of absolute BS out there on the net, and a great deal more information that is inaccurate or incomplete."

In other words: Many on this group *are* predisposed to consider anything found on the internet as *absolute* BS at first blush, and that which is only *near* BS is frequently just as bad because of inaccuracies and omissions.

Yeah, I can see now. I was waaaay off the mark there. . . Sheesh.

BTW, how did the response to my post further our understanding of reciprocal switching?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson

On Dec 7, 2008, at 1:17 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

I know that some denizens of this group are predisposed to consider
anything
found on the internet as complete bullsh_t....

C'mon, Kurt, this is gratuitous misrepresentation. No one on this
list has made any such claim, or anything close to it. Many of us,
however, tend to distrust information found on the internet unless
there is ample corroboration. There's a fair amount of absolute BS
out there on the net, and a great deal more information that is
inaccurate or incomplete. And much of it is so ephemeral that errors
never get corrected. By contrast, if you make a mistake in a written
publication, as Mike Brock recently pointed out, you will be held
accountable for it in the community of readers you are addressing.
Those of us who write are well aware that, every time we publish a
book or article, we put our reputations on the line. That doesn't
mean we never make mistakes, but it does tend to give us (most of us,
anyway) a more cautious approach to the facts than seems typical of a
lot of stuff that can be found on the net. I can cite myself as an
example; I sometimes respond to posts on the STMFC list off the top
of my head, and sometimes I'm wrong. I tend to be a lot more
rigorous about fact-checking when I'm writing for publication.


NYC Lot 859-B

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I am working on a NYC lot 859-B boxcar (50' Branchline single door boxcar).
I can't find a photo in my sources of the car. Does anyone know what trucks
the car had?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Truck roof walk help NP 1937 AAR

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I am trying to finish off two models and need some help with the trucks. I
am working on an NP 1937 AAR boxcar. The kit comes with trucks with Spring
planks. I have the July 1991 RMJ which has an article by Ed hawkins. However
the photo is so small the trucks are tough to see. I think they are spring
plankless trucks.

Also the kit comes with a wood roof walk Did these cars keep a wood roof
walk their entire lives? Thanks.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Proviso 1943.jpg
Uploaded by : losgatos48 <losgatos48@comcast.net>
Description : Jack Delano shot of Provise in 1943

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Proviso%201943.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

losgatos48 <losgatos48@comcast.net>


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: gary laakso

2- fish; refrigerator cars?
Well, reefers if they're dead fish (I should hope so!). But they may have been live fish for
stocking lakes and streams. I know several railroads had fish hatchery cars (there may be a better
more accurate term), and that the GN was one of them. PRR and LV both had them, I think. Probably
others. These carried hatchlings from fish hatcheries to the locations where they were to be
"delivered."

SGL


Re: Reciprocal switching

Andy Laurent
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gary roe" <wabashrr@...> wrote:
"...Each railroad establishes a switching district in which it will
arrange to have a car delivered, regardless of whose tracks the
siding is located on. Railroads establish reciprocal agreements
(we'll switch your cars, if you switch ours) to ensure that cars are
delivered.

"The road handling the switch will be paid a switching charge which
is determined by each railroad within each switching district."

gary roe
quincy, illinois
You nailed it, Gary. One detail that has not been discussed is that
the reciprocal switching agreement (or Tariff) would have a list of
customers (or stations) that were open to reciprocal switching. See
Page 8 of our (CSS&SB RR) current Tariff 6001 for an example:
http://www.southshorefreight.com/custresource.htm There are other
goodies in there too for anyone wanting to get in depth into
demurrage, intermediate switching, etc...

Since there are so many connecting roads in the Chicago Switching
District, we publish via a Tariff instead of specific agreements with
each line-haul carrier. The IHB does something similar with their
8000 series Tariff. http://www.ihbrr.com/tariffs.htm The EJ&E has a
reciprocal switch agreement for lumber via BNSF on their site:
http://www.tstarinc.com/eje/eje2/EJE_Reciprocal_Swtg_02-227.pdf

The GB&W Industry Lists of 1943 and 1952 show evidence of reciprocal
switching agreements at virtually every junction town...the serving
railroads are noted:
http://www.greenbayroute.com/industries.htm#railroads

I think reciprocal switching agreements were very common in steam era
days, but from a model railroad operating point of view they would
not appear different than a standard 'interchange-delivery' shipment.
The difference was in the accounting and paper work.

Enjoy,
Andy L.
CSS&SB RR

111181 - 111200 of 188713