Date   

Re: Radial Roofs

Richard Hendrickson
 

Interesting stuff, Dennis. Thanks for posting it, and to Jim Dick
for making it available. I knew that roof had been invented in the
NP mechanical department but wasn't aware that the Soo had also used
it, or that the patent had been sold to Hutchins.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?

Paul Lyons
 

It is also to "small". We have been through this once before-Check past posts!

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@verizon.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:25 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?






The F&C version with its one piece body is much easier to build.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
brianehni
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:15 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our
future?

Or, how about building a kit that will look right?

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunpricelistsum08.pdf

See page 6 for 4 B&O wagontops, 3 of which are M53s.

Funaro and Camerlengo also make various wagontop kits:
http://www.fandckits.com/ The
B&O links will show you 9 different wagontops, including 5 M53, 2 M50, amd 2
M15 kits.

Brian Ehni


Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Garth Groff wrote:
"How about http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/ . Click on 'signature series'
at left. May not be Intermountain quality, but maybe it will do for a
stand-in until something else comes along."

Gotta agree with Brian and Jim - $29.95 for what is essentially the old
Cannonball Car Shops/Red Ball kit is questionable, especially when you
can spend the same amount of money for a much nicer resin kit from
Sunshine or Funaro.


Ben Hom


Re: Radial Roofs

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Dec 18, 2008, at 10:01 AM, dssa1051 wrote:

I did a quick search of the site but found very little on radial
roofs.
Were the Central Valley radial roofs (from the CV stockcar)
specific to
the NP or could it be used on other roads' cars?
The CV roof represents the NP's unique "circular" outside metal roof,
which (AFAIK) was not used by any other RR.
Bob, Richard,

Mr. James Dick of the Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association
sent me copies of a bunch of NP company correspondence about these
roofs, which unfortunately raises more questions that it answers. Many
of these letters appear to be testimonials in response to a request
for same having been sent out by Mr. H. M. Robertson MCB of the
Northern Pacific Ry.

Here are some highlights:

A letter from the Twin City Joint Car Inspection Association dated
9/11/23 refers to the roof as the "Gilman-Robertson Circular Roof."
and states that it dates to 1909. It also states that the
Chicago-Cleveland Car Roofing Co. are to sell this style roof.

There is a memo from the NPRy. Mechanical Dept. dated 12/26/24
comparing the weight and cost of the "N.P. Composite Circular" roof to
the Hutchins All Steel roof and the Murphy X.L.A.

There is a request of information from the Norfolk Southern Railroad
dated 2/2/26, and the response on 3/8/26 which claims that, "This
construction is covered by a patent issued to our master car builder,
Mr. H. M. Robertson, and I understand the royalty for use of same is
$1.00 a car." However, I have not been able to confirm the existence
of this patent.

There is a letter addressed to Mr, Ralph Simpson, Mech'l Eng'r, Mps.
St.P. & S. Ste. M. Ry. (Soo Line) dated 6/21/27 asking if he would
please send, "a duplicate set of prints showing Mr. Robertson's design
of circular roof applied to the 500 boxcars which you recently had
built." Mr. Simpson responded in the affirmative 6/25/27. I feel that
this confirms that the arch roof cars the Soo had built in the late
twenties did indeed use the same roof the NP was using.

A letter dated 8/8/27 that appears to be signed by H. M. Robertson
concerning a inquiry by the Milwaukee Road states, "I informed him
that the patent covering the roof construction had been sold to the
Hutchins Car Roofing people." This surprises me, as the Soo purchased
additional cars with this roof in 1928, 29, and 30, and the Soo
equipment diagram claims the roof is Chicago-Cleveland.

There is a letter dated 8/11/27 to the Mech. Supt. of Fruit Growers
Express that states that the roofs on the NP 93000 series of
refrigerator cars, "were purchased from the Hutchins Car Roofing Co.
and that company also controls the diagonal roof board construction."

Speaking of the construction. These were simple outside metal roofs,
the light guage sheet metal being supported by wood sheathing. Reading
this correspondence, I realize the design intent was to allow the
entire roof to be one unbroken plane, so that the sheathing could be
laid at a 45* angle to the car, which improved the stiffness of the
roof structure and lessened "weaving", the tendency for the roof to
rack back and forth. This plane was bent into a gentle arch and
covered with sheet metal to shed water, but the important part of the
design was the diagonal sheathing.

As far as I can tell from this correspondence, while several other
roads inquired about the design, only the NP and Soo actually used it.

Dennis


Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

The F&C version with its one piece body is much easier to build.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
brianehni
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:15 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our
future?

Or, how about building a kit that will look right?

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunpricelistsum08.pdf

See page 6 for 4 B&O wagontops, 3 of which are M53s.

Funaro and Camerlengo also make various wagontop kits:
http://www.fandckits.com/ The
B&O links will show you 9 different wagontops, including 5 M53, 2 M50, amd 2
M15 kits.

Brian Ehni


Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?

brianehni <behni@...>
 

Or, how about building a kit that will look right?

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunpricelistsum08.pdf

See page 6 for 4 B&O wagontops, 3 of which are M53s.

Funaro and Camerlengo also make various wagontop kits: http://www.fandckits.com/ The
B&O links will show you 9 different wagontops, including 5 M53, 2 M50, amd 2 M15 kits.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Charlie,

How about http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/ . Click on "signature series" at
left. May not be Intermountain quality, but maybe it will do for a
stand-in until something else comes along.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff



Charlie Duckworth wrote:
Well another year almost by us and I still would like a B&O M-53 Wagon
Top on the layout. For a steam - early diesl layout they are a must
have in a rail yard. I got my wish last year with the ART steel reefer
being issued so perhaps there's hope.

Anybody heard any rumors of a scale B&O car being done in plastic?

Charlie
Modeling 'the Mop'
http://mopac51.tripod.com/index.html



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




weathering

Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
 

A recent computer glitch wiped out all of my email libraries. Sometime in the last six months, or so, a list member sent views of several HO models with remarkably subtle weathering using techniques new to me. I've been looking through the files section under weathering without luck. I realize this is a rather vague description, but I was wondering if this rings a bell with any of you. If so, could you point me in the right direction in the archives. I'll hunt if I know where to go.
Thanks,
Norm Larkin


Re: Radial Roofs

dssa1051
 

Thanks, Richard

Does anyone have any ideas or tips for modeling a more typical radial
roof than the NP style? Does any manufacturer offer a separate
injection molded or resin roof rib that could used on a roof whether it
was peaked or radial? It could be useful in modeling a flat panel roof
as well.

Robert Oom


Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - Maybe in urethane someday

Bob McCarthy
 

Howdy!
 
     More likely to happen when ever Jim King makes one for use in Scale S.  It will be easy for him to make an HO when and if we get one through his normal channels.
 
     Would not hold your breath, as his plate is full of existing projects.  Please note, I do not in anyway speak for Jim - but, he is swamped with current projects such as the SR Woodrack in Scale S.
 
Bob McCarthy
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S

--- On Thu, 12/18/08, Charlie Duckworth <trduck@cox.net> wrote:

From: Charlie Duckworth <trduck@cox.net>
Subject: [STMFC] B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 6:21 PM






Well another year almost by us and I still would like a B&O M-53 Wagon
Top on the layout. For a steam - early diesl layout they are a must
have in a rail yard. I got my wish last year with the ART steel reefer
being issued so perhaps there's hope.

Anybody heard any rumors of a scale B&O car being done in plastic?

Charlie
Modeling 'the Mop'
http://mopac51. tripod.com/ index.html



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Reefer loading

bill_d_goat
 

Assuming an adequate number of workers, about how long would it have
taken to load a 40' ice reefer with produce using those slat & wire
boxes?
Also, for operational planning, how long after a reefer was iced and
sent for loading (obviously with the doors open all that time, would it
have had to be re-iced? Specifically, would it have had to be sent back
to the local ice platform after loading or could it have been shipped
towards its destination and re-iced further down the line?
Thanks for any help. The answer will determine the plan of operation on
my layout under construction.
Bill Williams


Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Charlie,

How about http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/ . Click on "signature series" at left. May not be Intermountain quality, but maybe it will do for a stand-in until something else comes along.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff



Charlie Duckworth wrote:

Well another year almost by us and I still would like a B&O M-53 Wagon Top on the layout. For a steam - early diesl layout they are a must have in a rail yard. I got my wish last year with the ART steel reefer being issued so perhaps there's hope.

Anybody heard any rumors of a scale B&O car being done in plastic?
Charlie
Modeling 'the Mop' http://mopac51.tripod.com/index.html

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Lehigh Valley Roof Walk Help

Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
 

Hmmm.... Well, despite knowing the creator of both that web site and the list personally, I was not available of the existence of that list either.....

Thanks for the link Ben.

Bill Schneider

----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 2:11 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lehigh Valley Roof Walk Help


Frank Brua asked:
"The Lehigh Valley had a series of steel box cars #61300-61899 built
during the mid-1940's. Can anyone tell me if these cars were built
with wood or metal roof walks? If built with wood, would they have
been changed to metal by the mid-1950's?"

Your answer is contained in this table which Ed Hawkins made available
online for everyone six years ago:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarpdfmain.html

Ben Hom


Re: Lehigh Valley Roof Walk Help

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 18, 2008, at 10:49 AM, parkvarieties wrote:

The Lehigh Valley had a series of steel box cars #61300-61899 built
during the mid-1940's. Can anyone tell me if these cars were built
with wood or metal roof walks? If built with wood, would they have
been changed to metal by the mid-1950's? Thanks.
Frank Brua






Frank, the LV freight car folio diagram for these cars identifies the
running boards applied when new as Apex steel grid.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Radial Roofs

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 18, 2008, at 10:01 AM, dssa1051 wrote:

I did a quick search of the site but found very little on radial
roofs.
Were the Central Valley radial roofs (from the CV stockcar)
specific to
the NP or could it be used on other roads' cars?




The CV roof represents the NP's unique "circular" outside metal roof,
which (AFAIK) was not used by any other RR.

Did other manufacturers of radial roofs use a more prominent seam
cap on their
roofs?



Yes, and on the Hutchins, Viking, and Murphy radial roofs the curve
or arch of the roof was shallower. Also, both the Hutchins and
Murphy roofs had small intermediate stiffening ribs in each panel,
and the Viking roof had two such stiffening ribs in each panel.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Lehigh Valley Roof Walk Help

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Frank Brua asked:
"The Lehigh Valley had a series of steel box cars #61300-61899 built
during the mid-1940's. Can anyone tell me if these cars were built
with wood or metal roof walks? If built with wood, would they have
been changed to metal by the mid-1950's?"

Your answer is contained in this table which Ed Hawkins made available
online for everyone six years ago:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarpdfmain.html


Ben Hom


Lehigh Valley Roof Walk Help

parkvarieties <parkvarieties@...>
 

Group,

The Lehigh Valley had a series of steel box cars #61300-61899 built
during the mid-1940's. Can anyone tell me if these cars were built
with wood or metal roof walks? If built with wood, would they have
been changed to metal by the mid-1950's? Thanks.
Frank Brua


GN Plywood Panel Box Cars

parkvarieties <parkvarieties@...>
 

Group,

Approximately when did the GN start repainting the plywood panel box
cars from the as-delivered orange paint scheme to their standard
freight car color? Thanks.
Frank Brua


Re: Feed Mills

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, water.kresse@... wrote:

I assummed that the 1937 era 70-ton covered hops were targeted for
denser materials such as gypsum for making cement. The gypsum
staining is why the C&O eventually changed over to gray from black
covered hops.

Al Kresse
Ft Dodge Iowa is/was one of the largest producer/miner of Gypsum. The
stuff sold to cement plants was on 2" (+ -) chunks deliverd in open
hoppers throughout the Midwest.
Differences in parts of the country?
Clark Propst


3-pack offer on SR/C&O S-scale wood rack

Jim King
 

A point of clarification re: my 3-pack offer for the upcoming S scale SR/C&O
pulpwood racks is in order. "Bulk pack" pricing applies only for direct
mail orders and is not offered to dealers. Customers can freely mix and
match any of the 3 cars (2 SR, 1 C&O) to get the 3-pack price which is 10%
less than buying them individually ($189 vs. $210) . plus $10 shipping. My
web site needs clarification but that'll take a couple days to update it, so
this email will suffice until then.



As always, please contact me off-list if you have questions.



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com


B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?

Charlie Duckworth <trduck@...>
 

Well another year almost by us and I still would like a B&O M-53 Wagon
Top on the layout. For a steam - early diesl layout they are a must
have in a rail yard. I got my wish last year with the ART steel reefer
being issued so perhaps there's hope.

Anybody heard any rumors of a scale B&O car being done in plastic?

Charlie
Modeling 'the Mop'
http://mopac51.tripod.com/index.html

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