Date   

appropriate colour for NP wood reefers

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

I am trying to verify the appropriate colour for the NP's wood reefers, as I approach finishing a couple Norwest's kits for same. The instructions say a 50/50 mix of reefer orange and reefers yellow, while the Microscale instruction's indicate reefer orange. Would anyone on the list have a more authoritative opinion?


Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


2-56 screws

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

Living now in a suburban area, I initially had trouble finding a convenient way to buy several hundred 2-56 x 1/4 inch screws for couplers and trucks. In case this information could be of help to any of you, I did find a supplier in Baltimore that was able to ship an order to me. The minimum order was 800 screws, which is only enough for two hundred cars. The price is $3.00 per hundred, and there was a shipping and handling charge of 5.02. The total bill was $29.02, which they invoiced me for. The company is:

A & A Bolt & Screw Co.
1110 Batavia Farm Road
P. O. Box 72120
Baltimore, MD 21237-0120
410-687-8831
1-800-638-4540
FAX 410-687-0071


Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


UP Stealth Frt Trains

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

I note in the UP Frt Conductor's Train Book that, while there is a location on the form for train number and section, conductor Fraley never put anything in those areas. Now, I've never seen a photo of a UP frt train in Wyoming with other than Xnnnn on the number board, but I am also aware that at least some UP frt trains were either named or numbered. Given that the engine carried no train number and Fraley didn't put one in his book, was the UP running a stealth frt train operation?

Mike Brock


Re: Wine

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson [mailto:rhendrickson@opendoor.com]
The PHPX car is a puzzlement. I can't found those reporting
marks (or anything close) in any of my ORERs. Assuming the book was
handwritten, is there any chance that the entry might actually represent
different initials?
I could not find PHPX either so I double checked the handwritten entry and
concluded PHPX is indeed the best guess as to what the 4 letters are. I've
scanned the entry and have posted it to the shared files area. The letters
P, R, and F are nearby for comparison. Lemme know what you think.

Dave Nelson


Re: USQX?

ibs4421@...
 

It's obviously pointless to comment on Warren's (facetious, I hope) explanation,


Yes Richard, my bad sense of humor at work.

Warren


Wartime flat car load

Earl Tuson
 

FWIW...

While perusing a B&M Bulletin, I saw a photo which included what I felt were
two interesting war time flat car loads, and a potential accompanying car. As
such items appear to be "popular," I figured I would share it here. The place
is Fitchburg, MA, the date- 5/30/43, the train and loco- MP-8
(Mechanicville-Portland) w/ 4-8-2 4116. The two flats of interest, separated
by a double door box car (looks to be 50',) each have 4 single-axle, flat bed
trailers stacked 2 and 2, with pairs of beds mated, all wheels towards one end.
<IF> you could fit 8 cabs into a 50' XA, that could explain the cut. There
are two hoppers on the head pin (one being a B&M quad,) then the truck loads,
and everything else visible in the train is oil.

Earl Tuson

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Re: Wine

Richard Hendrickson
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Brock [mailto:brockm@brevard.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:06 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] UP H-70-1..it was Richard's fault


As I was beginning analysis of the wine carrying cars in the UP
Frt Conductor's Book, [snip]
Mike, are you seeing blocks of wine loads in your book too? I found one in
mine too, same train, eastbound, all these cars close together or adjacent:

road carnr type contents
WFEX 65729 REEFER Wine
PHPX 6356 Wine
GATX 33834 TANK Wine
GATX 991 TANK Wine
NADX 1583 Wine
SFRD 36427 REEFER Wine
PFE 45866 REEFER Wine
GATX 33436 TANK Wine
GATX 66187 TANK Wine
GATX 33818 TANK Wine
PFE 30267 REEFER Wine
The NADX car was a 40' refrigerated box car (ex-reefer with the ice bunkers
removed). The PHPX car is a puzzlement. I can't found those reporting
marks (or anything close) in any of my ORERs. Assuming the book was
handwritten, is there any chance that the entry might actually represent
different initials?

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: USQX?

Richard Hendrickson
 

Mike queried:

I notice the reporting marks USQX in the Frt Conductor Book. This
reporting mark appears to not exist in my '53 ORER. Does anyone know what
this was in '49?

Mike Brock

Mike,
I believe that these were cars used to transport the Roswell
wreckage and the dead aliens by the US Gov't. That's why they don't show
up. :)

Warren Dickinson
Somehow, I missed Mike's original post. It's obviously pointless to
comment on Warren's (facetious, I hope) explanation, but the fact is that
the USQX reporting marks were those of of the United States Army
Quartermaster Corps, which had a sizeable tank car fleet during and after
WW II. By 1950 those cars, along with cars bearing USAX and USOX reporting
marks, were consolidated under the management of the Department of the
Army, Office of the Chief of Transportation, Railway Transport Service
Division. By 1953, all such cars had USAX reporting marks assigned. And
by the mid-1950s, when all of the services were consolidated under the
Department of Defense, USAX cars, along with the navy's USNX cars, were
combined under DODX reporting marks. Trust the military to keep
rearranging the deck chairs....

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: UP H-70-1..it was Richard's fault

Richard Hendrickson
 

....For those receiving this message twice, I apologize, but it's
Richard's fault.
Say, what? Perhaps if I simply ignore this outrageous canard, it will go
away.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Wine

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Brock [mailto:brockm@brevard.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:06 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] UP H-70-1..it was Richard's fault


As I was beginning analysis of the wine carrying cars in the UP
Frt Conductor's Book, [snip]
Mike, are you seeing blocks of wine loads in your book too? I found one in
mine too, same train, eastbound, all these cars close together or adjacent:

road carnr type contents
WFEX 65729 REEFER Wine
PHPX 6356 Wine
GATX 33834 TANK Wine
GATX 991 TANK Wine
NADX 1583 Wine
SFRD 36427 REEFER Wine
PFE 45866 REEFER Wine
GATX 33436 TANK Wine
GATX 66187 TANK Wine
GATX 33818 TANK Wine
PFE 30267 REEFER Wine

Dave Nelson


Coal on the Suncook Valley, was UP Frt Con Book Data

Earl Tuson
 

From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
There were very few
places in the west where cross-hopper cars could be conveniently unloaded.
I don't know much about the west, or hell, even the east, besides the Suncook
Valley! I do know, however, that two out of the three post-war customers
receiving coal on that very eastern line were not equipped with elevated
trestles, rather they used portable bucket conveyors to move the coal from
(mostly) hoppers.

Coal shipped on the SV, 11/1/52-12/20/52

Fred Saltmarsh, Suncook, elevated trestle:
PRR 695122, Bit from Altoona, PA (PRR), Gla
B&O 331363, Bit from Allingdale, WV (B&O), ? twin
L&NE 14087, Anth from Coxton (?), PA, '35 offset twin

Merrimack Valley Farmers Exchange, Epsom, bucket conveyor:
C&I 5110, Bit from Colver, PA (C&I), '35 offset twin
LV 18356, Anth from Coxton (?), PA, pre-USRA 8 panel twin
PRR 209917, Anth from Coxton (?), PA, Glca
LV 17905, Anth from Coverts, PA (PRR), pre-USRA 8 panel twin (got photos!)
D&H 3855, Anth from Coxton (?), PA, USRA twin

Pittsfield coal dealer that I'm unsure of name of, bucket conveyor:
PRR 281641, Anth from Scranton, PA, Gr (only coal carrying gon)
DL&W 82125, Anth from Kingston, PA (DL&W), 10 panel twin

There was also one other unidentified MT hopper returned to interchange from an
unidentified customer.

Data from collection of Dwight Smith.

Earl Tuson


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Re: UP H-70-1..

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

All this speculation about WHY eastern hoppers could be
found roaming UP rails on Sherman Hill is somewhat silly,
in the absence of actual shipper-consignee (i.e. waybill)
information. Equally likely explanations are a temporary
car shortage, a long term car shortage, miscellaneous coal
strikes, badly misrouted cars, or just the prosaic use of
another's railroad's equipment to conduct one's business.
Indeed, single carload lots of coal travelling 1500 miles
or more would be of great interest -- where is the proof?
You can't accurately infer that an eastern car loaded with
coal came from east of the Ohio (way east, in the case of
Lehigh Valley!) without some other documentation. Car rent
(per diem) was historically very cheap, and many railroads
were net car 'lenders' against their better wishes. (Great
Northern was one, and complained noisily about it in their
annual reports.) Some time ago on FCL we discussed aerial
photos of a sand quarry in western South Dakota in which we
could easily identify PRR, NYC, and other eastern hoppers
being loaded with sand - for use within a couple hundred
mile radius. Those cars could have been shanghied and not
returned to their owners for months, or maybe longer. Who
knows?

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


UP H-70-1..it was Richard's fault

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

As I was beginning analysis of the wine carrying cars in the UP Frt Conductor's Book, I decided that I would sample some of the contents of said cars. This, unfortunately, led me to send a message regarding the UP H-70-1 hopper.....what has this to do with wine carrying cars? I have no idea.........to the Steam Loco Group instead of the STMFC. I now include that message below. For those receiving this message twice, I apologize, but it's Richard's fault. Having witnessed first hand the effects of Richard's wine tasting clinic at the San Jose Convention......wife Georgia was grinning for hours afterward...as was Richard, the only one smiling during a Santa Fe modeler's meeting afterwards......I have come to appreciate such activities.

Tim O'Connor speculates that when the UP acquired its H-70-1 hoppers that the population of off road...including eastern owned hoppers....might have vanished to be replaced by the UP hoppers. I actually doubt this happened. All but one of my examples came from the east and were traveling to, apparently, Ogden. Some of these cars...the Lehigh Valley, for example.......were probably carrying coal from some distance and we might expect it to have unique properties. This has been proposed many times. Add to this the fact that we do have photo evidence of eastern hoppers long after 1949 on UP tracks in Wyoming. The book The History of the Union Pacific in Cheyenne shows a Lackawanna hopper headed east...apparently empty....on Sherman Hill in 1955. The Iron Horse and I shows a MP hopper in Laramie in 1951. There is a shot of a Virginian hopper headed west in Kansas. I think we'll find that most of those H-70-1s were used for hauling Wyoming coal from Hanna and Rock Springs to various destinations rather than to haul some unique coal from the east. Of course, there was a coal strike in the Wyoming mines at sometime in the early 50s which might account for the presence of the MP hopper seen in the photo.

Mike Brock


Re: USQX?

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

US Quartermaster


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: USQX?

ibs4421@...
 

Mike queried:

I notice the reporting marks USQX in the Frt Conductor Book. This reporting mark appears to not exist in my '53 ORER. Does anyone know what this was in '49?

Mike Brock

Mike,
I believe that these were cars used to transport the Roswell wreckage and the dead aliens by the US Gov't. That's why they don't show up. :)

Warren Dickinson


USQX?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

I notice the reporting marks USQX in the Frt Conductor Book. This reporting mark appears to not exist in my '53 ORER. Does anyone know what this was in '49?

Mike Brock


A cargo of rail

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

From the UP Frt Conductor's Book...
One train had 15 cars carrying rail westbound between Laramie and Rawlins. These cars were:
1.UP 55052 Flat
2.SP 48612 Flat
3.CNW 43651 Flat
4. SP 151256 GS GON
5. UP 56771 Flat
6. MOP 61207 Hopper
7. UP 55765 Flat
8. UP56918 Flat
9. SP 43511 Flat
10.CNW 45237 Flat
11. UP 55939 Flat
12. UP 56799 Flat
13. SP 56423 GS Gon
14.SP 90380 GS Gon
15.SP 56461 GS Gon

The MP car is a bit curious.Tie plates?

Mike Brock


Re: UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Aley - GCD PE [mailto:jaley@pcocd2.intel.com]
I'm the wrong kind of techie (I'm a hardware guy), but I'll try to fake
it. What about

select mfr, part_number
from HO_kit
where HO_kit.prototype=orer!roster.class_id
and orer!roster.class_id='X31F'
You got the comprehensive list of accurate models & the mapping from that
list over to railroad car series numbers? I'll load it if you do. 8-)

[or something like that] ??
Ahh, the specificity of a true hardware guy! Causes one to reflect on the
meaning of life.

Dave Nelson


Re: UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 1, 10:58pm, Dave & Libby Nelson wrote:
Subject: RE: [STMFC] UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look
So far I'd transcribed about 500 cars and linked them
to my ORER database (as I've done with the SRR books I have). Not
enough of
a sample to say much, but when that question on PRR turtleback's popped
up I
had the answer about 15 seconds after the software loaded.

For the techies:

select train.Train_id, Call_Dt, Road, Car_nbr
from consist, train
where consist.train_id=train.train_id
and consist.cb_series = orer!roster.cb_series
and orer!roster.class_id='X31F';
I'm the wrong kind of techie (I'm a hardware guy), but I'll try to fake
it. What about

select mfr, part_number
from HO_kit
where HO_kit.prototype=orer!roster.class_id
and orer!roster.class_id='X31F'

[or something like that] ??

Regards,

-Jeff


--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Prototype Info

Richard Hendrickson
 

If any of you happen to come up with some good prototype info on the
L&N, NC&StL, or TC please give me a shout, either here or off-line. I am
always looking for good resources to help me in my quest of modeling these
RR's prototypically....
Warren, I've got a fair number of photos of freight cars from those RRs,
some of them prints of which copies are no longer available, which I could
send in the form of JPEGs. Tell me exactly what era you're modeling (my
photo collection is largely confined to cars built before ca. 1948, though
many of the photos show later paint/lettering). Also, someone you should
be talking to is Bill Welch in Virginia, who is also very seriously
interested in modeling those RRs in the 1950s. If you're not already in
touch with him, I can give you his e-mail address.

I just got Vollrath's list of photo's (steam locos) for the L&N and
NC&StL, and in the list he mentions that he has an extensive freight car
photo list, 40+ pages. Have any of you ordered freight car photo's from
him before. TIA.
Vollrath's freight car holdings are hit-and-miss, but there are fine things
there, his darkroom work is good, and his prices are reasonable. Certainly
worth checking out.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

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