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Re: UP B-50-21 box car
Ted Culotta posted a message regarding modeling the UP
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B-50-19 and B-50-21 from IMWX/RC kits. The -19 requires little or no modifications, but the -21 has welded ends as well as welded underframe, and the rivets Tom mentions. Red Caboose released cars decorated as B-50-21's (8041-x). Tim O'Connor
At 1/17/2009 08:22 PM Saturday, you wrote:
Dean Payne wrote:The B-50-21 is covered in Terry Metcalfe's book UNION PACIFIC FREIGHT
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Re: Automobile Car Shortage
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Meanwhile the freightcar business went to H&B. Looking in the 1919 CBC at what H&B was building for other railroads, I/m not entierly sure that in 1917 H&B was equipped to build a steel framed car...Dennis, if you look at the builder photos from H&B in Ed Kaminski's book on Pullman-Standard, you'll see a whole bunch of steel-framed cars built by H&B well before 1917. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Fw: SPREAD THE WORD!
joel norman <mec-bml@...>
--- On Sun, 1/18/09, George Melvin <geomel1@verizon.net> wrote:
From: George Melvin <geomel1@verizon.net> Subject: SPREAD THE WORD! To: "Joel Norman" <mec-bml@sbcglobal.net> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 6:23 PM Joel, I know this won't help you personally being in the Midwest but wonder if you could pass the word on some Yahoo lists you may participate in...thanks! George SPREAD THE WORD --- MELVIN PHOTOS --- BIG SALE AT SPRINGFIELD SHOW JAN 23-25!!! BUY ONE - GET ONE FREE on all photos in stock. We need to make room for many new photos and this is your chance to buy some that may have passed up before! We'll be in Section 56 of the Better Living Center. We will also be selling George's newest book, "Trackside New Hampshire with Ben English, Jr., at the discounted price of $46.00 plus tax!!! Check out our expanded website at: www.melvinphotos.com See you there! George & Kathy Melvin
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Re: NSP coal hoppers
Ed Hawkins
On Jan 18, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Thomas Baker wrote:
During the 1950s did the Northern States Power Company have companyTom, The Northern States Power Co. bought 4 hopper cars from AC&F delivered 10-48 under lot 3307. The builder's photo was NSP 4517. The 70-ton triple hopper cars were 38'-6" inside length, and all-welded construction with offset sides and outside posts. The St. Louis Mercantile Library has a bill of materials and photos of the car. I didn't document the car number series of the 4 cars that were built or any of the details in the bill of materials. I don't find the cars listed in the ORER so presumably they were not interchanged. The NSP cars used most of the same set of AC&F drawings and were essentially identical to C&O, M-K-T, and Missouri Portland Cement hopper cars built under lots 3266 (C&O 91000-93999), 3282 (M-K-T 40101-40300), 3294 (MOCX 314-363), and 3310 (C&O 94000-94999), 3379 (C&O 96000-97999), and 3404 (C&O 99000-99499). Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Re: Automobile Car Shortage
Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, James D Thompson <jaydeet@...> wrote:
in thatMight have been an issue with the rapidly escalating cost of steel period? All through the first fifteen years of the twentieth century, AC&F seemed to have a lock on the Soo's freightcar business, while Barney & Smith supplied the bulk of the passenger cars, with a couple orders going to AC&F. neither Haskell & Barker nor Pullman had built much of anything for the road. However, those two builders were the prime suppliers to the Wisconsin Central, a road the Soo leased in 1909. Orders to H&B stop abruptly in 1908. Just before WWI there was a major realignment. B&S was quickly going out of business, and the Soo swung the passenger car business to AC&F. Meanwhile the freightcar business went to H&B. Looking in the 1919 CBC at what H&B was building for other railroads, I/m not entierly sure that in 1917 H&B was equipped to build a steel framed car... This was right at the end of the transition period from wood to steel construction, and H&B was by no means a major builder. I've gotten the impression, without finding the documentation to back it up, that this was a board directive that the business was going to go to H&B, and if they can't build what we want; we'll take what they can build. The Soo purchased 800 boxcars, 200 automobile cars, and 250 ore cars from H&B that year. The ore cars were steel and 244 of them were still on the roster in 1961, while the wood framed auto and box cars were essentially gone shortly after WWII (only one of each remaining in 1961). With the war over, H&B came back with a vengeance in 1920, this time building steel framed cars; 500 boxcars in 1920 along with 300 more ore cars; 650 boxcars, 400 stockcars, and 250 reefers in 1921, after which they became part of Pullman, who continued the trend. By this time AC&F had also lost the passenger equipment accounts in favor of Pullman. AC&F only just got a couple more bites at the apple in 1923 and 24, and then they were history. It certainly looks like there was more going on here than just the price of steel. Dennis
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Re: NSP coal hoppers
Thomas Baker
During the 1950s did the Northern States Power Company have company coal hoppers? If so, of what type? The NSP was big in the Twin Cities, and as a boy I saw coal hoppers in near its plants but never any company-owned cars.
Tom
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PSCC hopper article in Model Railroad Hobbyist
Dean Payne
The CV hopper in the Model Railroad Hobbyist is based on a Bowser
model, and the author (Marty McGuirk) says that the thing that the most significant thing that scream "Pennsy" are the tapered side posts. I, on the other hand, find that the end sills look wrong, too deep and too tall, extending below the bottom of the side sills. Another author (I searched for the article in RMC and couldn't find it, maybe it was in MR) corrected the depth issue by sawing off and reattaching the end sill, but it still extended below the level of the side sills. A quick measurement shows the end sills to be about 11" tall, versus maybe 7.5" for the side member (rough measures, sorry!) There are a number of non-USRA hoppers that could be modeled using the Bowser kit, including those manufactured by SSCC (and Cambria??) by removing these Pennsy-specific details. I will try replacing the end sill with square styrene stock. I also see six grabs on my prototype, that may (or may not) be more common with the PSCC/SSCC cars. The article has re-kindled my interest in these cars, thanks! Dean Payne
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Re: Automobile Car Shortage
water.kresse@...
It appears, from reading between the lines in Mr. Lane's article that the driving factor for the all-steel 55-ton hopper cars was that there was an across the country coal car shortage and they would benefit many industries serviced by many railroads. Some of the other USRA proposed designs were less universally needed.
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Al Kresse
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@yahoo.ca> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 12:09:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [STMFC] Re:Automobile Car Shortage I have to wonder if a wartime (or pre-war) shortage of steel may have been a factor in reducing automobile car construction at this time, and thus availability of many new automobile box cars. I have read that the USRA had to politick for a sufficient allocation of steel to have hopper cars built in 1918/19. (Mainline Modeler, March 1982, page 20.) The article cites a RLHS article by James E. Lane that appears to quote a USRA committee meeting-- "The question then arose as to what we should do concerning the proposed 25,000 all-steel hoppers of 55-tons capacity. A few days ago Mr. Williams and Mr. Spencer had attended a meeting of the War Industries Board, the Shipping Board, and other Government departments and at this meeting it had been indicated that the amount of steel plates available for railroad use would have to be cut drastically in order to obtain enough steel plates for shipping purposes. Mr. Williams at this meeting agreed to the program proposed and this program cut down our steel plates to such a point as to preclude us from getting the 25,000 all-steel hoppers, since the steel plate allotted to us would fall about 49,000 tons short of enough to construct these hoppers. The Conference decided, however, that the all-steel hopper should be insisted upon and that we ought to find a way to get the additional 49,000 tons of steel plate." Also keep in mind the well-documented precarious financial position that many railroads of the time found themselves in. Steve Lucas. --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, James D Thompson <jaydeet@...> wrote: in thatMight have been an issue with the rapidly escalating cost of steel period? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Automobile Car Shortage
water.kresse@...
Folks,
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Do we know when the fed's started to formally ration steel for ship building, etc. going into WW1? I would also guess (like gas today) that the price of steel went up on European news before they really had a supply problem. Because their prices got so high, the C&O had to be forced to buy new cars. Al Kresse
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Stokes" <ggstokes@msn.com> To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 1:52:11 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re:Automobile Car Shortage My understanding is that a number of hopper cars and box cars were build with wood sheathing because of the steel shortage during both World Wars, and many of at least the hoppers had their wood sheathing replaced later with steel sheathing. It would not be unlikely that the Soo Line compromised on the wood DS box cars during WWI, and that was not a retreat in technology but a recognition of reality given the need for more cars and the materials shortages. John Stokes Bellevue, WA To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com From: stevelucas3@yahoo.ca Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:09:51 +0000 Subject: [STMFC] Re:Automobile Car Shortage I have to wonder if a wartime (or pre-war) shortage of steel may have been a factor in reducing automobile car construction at this time, and thus availability of many new automobile box cars. I have read that the USRA had to politick for a sufficient allocation of steel to have hopper cars built in 1918/19. (Mainline Modeler, March 1982, page 20.) The article cites a RLHS article by James E. Lane that appears to quote a USRA committee meeting-- "The question then arose as to what we should do concerning the proposed 25,000 all-steel hoppers of 55-tons capacity. A few days ago Mr. Williams and Mr. Spencer had attended a meeting of the War Industries Board, the Shipping Board, and other Government departments and at this meeting it had been indicated that the amount of steel plates available for railroad use would have to be cut drastically in order to obtain enough steel plates for shipping purposes. Mr. Williams at this meeting agreed to the program proposed and this program cut down our steel plates to such a point as to preclude us from getting the 25,000 all-steel hoppers, since the steel plate allotted to us would fall about 49,000 tons short of enough to construct these hoppers. The Conference decided, however, that the all-steel hopper should be insisted upon and that we ought to find a way to get the additional 49,000 tons of steel plate." Also keep in mind the well-documented precarious financial position that many railroads of the time found themselves in. Steve Lucas. --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, James D Thompson <jaydeet@...> wrote: The Soo Line bought two groups of automobile cars that straddle 1916; a couple hundred 40' single sheathed cars from AC&F in 1915, and a couple of hundred 40' double sheathed truss rod cars from Haskell & Barker in 1917. Yes, I know it sounds as if they were moving backwards, but that's what they did. Might have been an issue with the rapidly escalating cost of steelin that period? David Thompson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: railroad film
aikenair@...
Group,
I think the name of the movie is "Danger Lights" and was made in 1931. Don Barnes Aiken, SC **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.(http://www.aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027)
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Re: railroad film
aikenair@...
Al,
Was this the film entitled "Danger Lights"? Don **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.(http://www.aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027)
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Re: railroad film
benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Bill Davis asked:
"Can you gave a name for the movie?" Read Al's post again - he gave it to you: --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Westerfield <westerfield@...> wrote:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0020234/ Ben Hom
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Re: railroad film
Westerfield <westerfield@...>
Bill - The name was "Oh, Yeah!" - Al Westerfield
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----- Original Message -----
From: bill davis To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 5:14 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] railroad film Hi Al, Can you gave a name for the movie BILL --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Westerfield <westerfield@charter.net> wrote: From: Westerfield <westerfield@charter.net> Subject: [STMFC] railroad film To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 10:12 PM Found another great film - Oh, Yeah!, made in 1930 with Robert Armstrong. Lousy film but plenty of freight car action and lots of steam. Available from Sinister Cinema. - Al Westerfield
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Re: railroad film
bill davis <billcheri72@...>
Hi Al,
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Can you gave a name for the movie BILL
--- On Sat, 1/17/09, Westerfield <westerfield@charter.net> wrote:
From: Westerfield <westerfield@charter.net> Subject: [STMFC] railroad film To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 10:12 PM Found another great film - Oh, Yeah!, made in 1930 with Robert Armstrong. Lousy film but plenty of freight car action and lots of steam. Available from Sinister Cinema. - Al Westerfield [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Automobile Car Shortage
Stokes John
My understanding is that a number of hopper cars and box cars were build with wood sheathing because of the steel shortage during both World Wars, and many of at least the hoppers had their wood sheathing replaced later with steel sheathing. It would not be unlikely that the Soo Line compromised on the wood DS box cars during WWI, and that was not a retreat in technology but a recognition of reality given the need for more cars and the materials shortages.
John Stokes Bellevue, WA To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com From: stevelucas3@yahoo.ca Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:09:51 +0000 Subject: [STMFC] Re:Automobile Car Shortage I have to wonder if a wartime (or pre-war) shortage of steel may have been a factor in reducing automobile car construction at this time, and thus availability of many new automobile box cars. I have read that the USRA had to politick for a sufficient allocation of steel to have hopper cars built in 1918/19. (Mainline Modeler, March 1982, page 20.) The article cites a RLHS article by James E. Lane that appears to quote a USRA committee meeting-- "The question then arose as to what we should do concerning the proposed 25,000 all-steel hoppers of 55-tons capacity. A few days ago Mr. Williams and Mr. Spencer had attended a meeting of the War Industries Board, the Shipping Board, and other Government departments and at this meeting it had been indicated that the amount of steel plates available for railroad use would have to be cut drastically in order to obtain enough steel plates for shipping purposes. Mr. Williams at this meeting agreed to the program proposed and this program cut down our steel plates to such a point as to preclude us from getting the 25,000 all-steel hoppers, since the steel plate allotted to us would fall about 49,000 tons short of enough to construct these hoppers. The Conference decided, however, that the all-steel hopper should be insisted upon and that we ought to find a way to get the additional 49,000 tons of steel plate." Also keep in mind the well-documented precarious financial position that many railroads of the time found themselves in. Steve Lucas. --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, James D Thompson <jaydeet@...> wrote: The Soo Line bought two groups of automobile cars that straddle 1916; a couple hundred 40' single sheathed cars from AC&F in 1915, and a couple of hundred 40' double sheathed truss rod cars from Haskell & Barker in 1917. Yes, I know it sounds as if they were moving backwards, but that's what they did. Might have been an issue with the rapidly escalating cost of steelin that period? David Thompson
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cable carrying gons
Schuyler Larrabee
"I'm sure that the usual railway luck held out, and that the bad journal was on one of the trucks of
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a car near the middle of the load." Of COURSE it was!! SGL
Bet that the carmen had a fun time changing out the offending
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Re: Automobile Car Shortage
Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
I have to wonder if a wartime (or pre-war) shortage of steel may have
been a factor in reducing automobile car construction at this time, and thus availability of many new automobile box cars. I have read that the USRA had to politick for a sufficient allocation of steel to have hopper cars built in 1918/19. (Mainline Modeler, March 1982, page 20.) The article cites a RLHS article by James E. Lane that appears to quote a USRA committee meeting-- "The question then arose as to what we should do concerning the proposed 25,000 all-steel hoppers of 55-tons capacity. A few days ago Mr. Williams and Mr. Spencer had attended a meeting of the War Industries Board, the Shipping Board, and other Government departments and at this meeting it had been indicated that the amount of steel plates available for railroad use would have to be cut drastically in order to obtain enough steel plates for shipping purposes. Mr. Williams at this meeting agreed to the program proposed and this program cut down our steel plates to such a point as to preclude us from getting the 25,000 all-steel hoppers, since the steel plate allotted to us would fall about 49,000 tons short of enough to construct these hoppers. The Conference decided, however, that the all-steel hopper should be insisted upon and that we ought to find a way to get the additional 49,000 tons of steel plate." Also keep in mind the well-documented precarious financial position that many railroads of the time found themselves in. Steve Lucas. --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, James D Thompson <jaydeet@...> wrote: in thatMight have been an issue with the rapidly escalating cost of steel period?
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Re: Model Rail Hobbyist - online magazine
Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
Bet that the carmen had a fun time changing out the offending
wheelset! I'm sure that the usual railway luck held out, and that the bad journal was on one of the trucks of a car near the middle of the load. An interesting model to build, for sure. Steve Lucas. --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote: shipment of undersea cables to the New York Harbor, all in those high-side gons. The cable was laid ineach gon, end to end, and looped from one to the next, no breaks. A big sign on the side about howthese ten gons were carrying a continuous cable some thirty miles long (number selected for thispost, may not be accurate). But, the photo shows the shipment on a siding, because one of the cars inthe middle of the cut has. . . . a hotbox.
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Re: railroad film
Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Al,
Be on the lookout for Perils of Pauline #9. Mike Brock Found another great film - Oh, Yeah!, made in 1930 with Robert Armstrong. Lousy film but plenty of freight car action and lots of steam. Available from Sinister Cinema. - Al Westerfield
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Re: Tichy's D&H single-sheathed, cement-service box cars
Schuyler Larrabee
Don, GAF wouldn't have been a D&H customer in Binghamton (No "p" in Binghamton, please). It most
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likely would have been switched by the ERIE at one of it's plants in Johnson City. I think. I haven't yet seen if Chuch Yungkurth responded or not, I don't think so. I'm not quite comprehending why GAF would want crushed slate, in Binghamton, where they made (crummy) film, but I do know they made shingles . . . somewhere. SGL
The operative words here are "crushed slate loading". By 1955 the D&H
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