Date   

Re: accurate Barber trucks

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cobrapsl@... wrote:

Mark,

The soon to be released?Sunshine tank car kit is the same model as
the Red Caboose/Drake brass import. I am curious, with all the back and
forth with the two experts,?why you would use the Kato truck when the
final concenus is the Branchline Barber S-2A is the ticket.

Paul Lyons
Well Paul, I already ordered the Kato trucks. If you twist my arm a
bit more, I'll get Branchline's. If I do, what cars should I place
over the Katos?

Mark


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Paul Lyons
 

Mark,

The soon to be released?Sunshine tank car kit is the same model as the Red Caboose/Drake brass import. I am curious, with all the back and forth with the two experts,?why you would use the Kato truck when the final concenus is the Branchline Barber S-2A is the ticket.

Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:08 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: accurate Barber trucks






Actually, I was asking for recommendations for trucks for the soon-to-
be-released Sunshine kits. I sent in an order for two today. I
think I'll be using the Kato trucks.

Mark PIerce

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cobrapsl@... wrote:

Tony, Richard,

I have gotten confused with this tread. Richard, somehow got over
on SP boxcars, when Mark's original question was "What is the best HO
truck that to put under the Red Caboose/Drake SP GATX 8000 gal
tankcar."

So are we still in agreement---Branchline Barber S-2A???

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:25 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] accurate Barber trucks






Richard Hendrickson wrote:
. . . I'll stick with my recommendation of the Branchline trucks,
which represent the Barber S-2A, as the closest equivalent.
With additional inspection of the photos, I agree. The SP trucks
did have a spring plank, but admittedly that's not terribly visible
in
HO scale.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: accurate Barber trucks

Bill Kelly
 

While the S-2 is in the '46 Car Builder's Cyclopedia, the S-2A is not so
I went to the '49-'51 CBC. Both the S-2 and the S-2A are shown on
pp1010,1011. The difference is the S-2A has a built in lateral motion
device and is intended for "high speed freight service". The difference
in appearance is very small and would be hard for me to see in most
freight car photos. Standard Car Truck Co.'s entry says that the S-2 and
the S-2A can be had with or without spring planks, can be used with AAR
or double truss sideframes and can be made with any desired spring
travel. Hope this helps.
later,
Bill Kelly


On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:43:04 -0000 "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@att.net>
writes:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>

wrote:

snip

which culminated in the Barber Stabilized S-2 and
S-2A trucks (the S-2 had a spring plank, the S-2A did not).
snip

From the mid-1930s through the 1950s the Barber S-2A was produced
in
large numbers as a self-aligning spring-plankless plain bearing
truck,
snip

I don't think that the "A" suffix signifies spring-plankless.
According to Southern Pacific paperwork (reproduced in the Southern

Pacific H&T Society's "SP Car Roster" publication) they had Barber
Stabilized S-2A trucks with spring planks.

I'm probably jumping to a conclusion (which I'm good at), but I
suspect that the "A" refers to longer spring travel, the S-2 with
the
traditional 1-5/8" travel versus 2-1/2" for the S-2A truck.

And I'm really sure that S-2 type trucks never had the self-aligning

feature. I've never seen any with it. The pressure of the spring
loaded wedges against the side frame columns certainly should have
hampered the ability of the sideframes to swivel on the truck
bolsters.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV



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Re: accurate Barber trucks

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

Actually, I was asking for recommendations for trucks for the soon-to-
be-released Sunshine kits. I sent in an order for two today. I
think I'll be using the Kato trucks.

Mark PIerce

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cobrapsl@... wrote:

Tony, Richard,

I have gotten confused with this tread. Richard, somehow got over
on SP boxcars, when Mark's original question was "What is the best HO
truck that to put under the Red Caboose/Drake SP GATX 8000 gal
tankcar."

So are we still in agreement---Branchline Barber S-2A???

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:25 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] accurate Barber trucks






Richard Hendrickson wrote:
. . . I'll stick with my recommendation of the Branchline trucks,
which represent the Barber S-2A, as the closest equivalent.
With additional inspection of the photos, I agree. The SP trucks
did have a spring plank, but admittedly that's not terribly visible
in
HO scale.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Paul Lyons
 

Got it!
Thanks,
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:59 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] accurate Barber trucks






Paul Lyons wrote:
I have gotten confused with this tread. Richard, somehow got over on
SP boxcars, when Mark's original question was "What is the best HO
truck that to put under the Red Caboose/Drake SP GATX 8000 gal
tankcar."

So are we still in agreement---Branchline Barber S-2A???
Yes. The box car photos were mentioned because they have better
views of the trucks--which of course are identified in the roster
tables. In other words, look up the trucks on the Class O-50-14 cars
(ASF Barber stabilized) and then find a (better) photo of same under a
boxcar.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Lyons wrote:
I have gotten confused with this tread. Richard, somehow got over on SP boxcars, when Mark's original question was "What is the best HO truck that to put under the Red Caboose/Drake SP GATX 8000 gal tankcar."

So are we still in agreement---Branchline Barber S-2A???
Yes. The box car photos were mentioned because they have better views of the trucks--which of course are identified in the roster tables. In other words, look up the trucks on the Class O-50-14 cars (ASF Barber stabilized) and then find a (better) photo of same under a boxcar.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Paul Lyons
 

Tony, Richard,

I have gotten confused with this tread. Richard, somehow got over on SP boxcars, when Mark's original question was "What is the best HO truck that to put under the Red Caboose/Drake SP GATX 8000 gal tankcar."

So are we still in agreement---Branchline Barber S-2A???

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:25 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] accurate Barber trucks






Richard Hendrickson wrote:
. . . I'll stick with my recommendation of the Branchline trucks,
which represent the Barber S-2A, as the closest equivalent.
With additional inspection of the photos, I agree. The SP trucks
did have a spring plank, but admittedly that's not terribly visible in
HO scale.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
. . . I'll stick with my recommendation of the Branchline trucks, which represent the Barber S-2A, as the closest equivalent.
With additional inspection of the photos, I agree. The SP trucks did have a spring plank, but admittedly that's not terribly visible in HO scale.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: New company appears

Tim O'Connor
 

The modern freight car list has been abuzz with this news. The
Espee list has been agitated as well. I'm sure Chris would think
about a pre-1960 model but that marketplace is pretty well filled
these days with freight car products, while there are still huge
voids for post-1960 modelers.

I do hope someone does an RTR wagontop.

The ad is online here:
http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/data/espeeboy/2009124172958_exactrail_2.jpg

Tim O'Connor

At 1/26/2009 02:02 PM Monday, Tom Madden wrote

The March 09 MR has a two-page ad from a new company called ExactRail.
Their web site is a teaser countdown clock at the moment, and their
three announced products are much too new for this list. But this is
Chris Clune's new venture, and Chris is the toolmaker whe ostensibly
did (and has) the tooling for the mythical styrene B&O wagontop boxcar.

I have no connection with ExactRail, and much of the above came from
the Trainorders.com list. Just thought it might be of some interest.


New company appears

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

The March 09 MR has a two-page ad from a new company called ExactRail.
Their web site is a teaser countdown clock at the moment, and their
three announced products are much too new for this list. But this is
Chris Clune's new venture, and Chris is the toolmaker whe ostensibly
did (and has) the tooling for the mythical styrene B&O wagontop boxcar.

I have no connection with ExactRail, and much of the above came from
the Trainorders.com list. Just thought it might be of some interest.

Tom Madden


Re: Accurate ASF A-3 trucks in HO

SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 1/26/2009 4:48:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
smithbf@auburn.edu writes:

Folks,

Since the ASF A-3 truck has come up in recent discussions, and I
believe that Brianna and I need a couple of sets of plain bearing ASF
A-3 trucks for our HO Speedwitch New Haven flat cars, which is better/
more accurate/more appropriate for these cars, the IM ASF A-3 or the
Kato ASF A-3? And where might one purchase said trucks, given that
Walthers is fresh out (well, at least for the IM trucks, they've been
out for over a year)?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

Bruce:

The Kato are available direct from Kato (4.95 a pair) _www.katousa.com_
(http://www.katousa.com)

Click on HO Scale tab on top the pick accessories from the drop down menu.

Rich Orr



**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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Re: accurate Barber trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 25, 2009, at 10:06 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Mark Pierce asked:
Which HO-model truck(s) best, if not correctly, represents the
Barber
stabilized ASF trucks?
Richard Hendrickson replied:
Well, let's clear up a bit of confusion first. The Barber truck was
not an ASF design.
True, but Mark is referring to SP's prewar car orders which were
fitted with ASF trucks with Barber stabilization.

ASF (American Steel Foundries) did make Barber S-2 and S-2A trucks
under license, but the principal manufacturer of the trucks was the
Standard Car Truck Co.
True, but irrelevant, as the sideframes in question were in fact
made by ASF. Since the Barber stabilization feature really only is
visible in the bolster end, while the overall sideframe shape was
typically (and was in this case) the producer's design, in this case
ASF.






















Unfortunately, Mark didn't specify WHICH trucks he was asking about,
so I was answering what appeared to be a general question. I have
now gone to your SP box car book to look at photos of the Barber
trucks under the prewar SP box cars. Regardless of who made them,
the trucks are of Barber S-2 design, i.e. Barber Stabilized trucks
with spring planks. As I said in my previous post, there currently
are no HO trucks which accurately represent the S-2 design. However,
I'll stick with my recommendation of the Branchline trucks, which
represent the Barber S-2A, as the closest equivalent. Certainly NOT
any manufacturer's ASF A-3 trucks, as the A-3 design had a
distinctive bulge at the bottom of the side frame below the spring
seat which the Barber trucks do not have, regardless of whether ASF
made them or not.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

snip

which culminated in the Barber Stabilized S-2 and
S-2A trucks (the S-2 had a spring plank, the S-2A did not).
snip

From the mid-1930s through the 1950s the Barber S-2A was produced
in
large numbers as a self-aligning spring-plankless plain bearing
truck,
snip

I don't think that the "A" suffix signifies spring-plankless.
According to Southern Pacific paperwork (reproduced in the Southern
Pacific H&T Society's "SP Car Roster" publication) they had Barber
Stabilized S-2A trucks with spring planks.

I'm probably jumping to a conclusion (which I'm good at), but I
suspect that the "A" refers to longer spring travel, the S-2 with the
traditional 1-5/8" travel versus 2-1/2" for the S-2A truck.

And I'm really sure that S-2 type trucks never had the self-aligning
feature. I've never seen any with it. The pressure of the spring
loaded wedges against the side frame columns certainly should have
hampered the ability of the sideframes to swivel on the truck
bolsters.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: [STEEL] Latest P&LE RR Historical Society magazine mailed May 5th

Derrick Brashear <shadow@...>
 

P&LE Society BOD member Derrick Brashear has complied a complete list
of the images in the University of Pittsburgh P&LE Photographic
collection. The list is available at: http://ple.dementia.org/
research/research.html
For those of you who may have downloaded this, I noticed last week a
few pages were missing from the PDF; As such I have regenerated and
replaced it on the web site above.

Derrick


Fw: Re: Resin kit problems...

armprem
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Premo" <armprem@surfglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Resin kit problems...


Steve,I have an RPI "Big Otis" that I built about twenty years ago.It is one of the finest resin cars that I have.There have been no problems such as warping or sagging.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@yahoo.ca>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 1:32 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Resin kit problems...


Thanks to everyone for their comments. As I'd written, the issues
were confined to two cars.

To be fair about things, the car with the sagging one-piece body is an
80' resin fish-bellied passenger coach model with separate roof. It
is moulded in a white resin, and I've a few ideas to recover the
model, as it is not offered by the manufacturer now. The roof has
stayed true, but the car shows a sag of about .075" in the centre when
the roof is installed. I feel that the issues raised with this car
may be applicable to, say, people building one-piece resin models of
mill gons in the larger scales. Then again, a sagging mill gon may
actually be desirable...

The other car kit with warpage problems is a high-sided CPR "Big Otis"
gondola car kit. It was made by F&C for RPI's model railroad shop.
It is moulded in a tan coloured resin.

The common factor seems to be that these models both have thin sides,
approx. .025" for the boards of the gon, and about .040" on the coach
sides. They also have no roof or a roof not yet attached to the car
sides. The roof of a house car would add stability to the finished
model.

Al--I have absolutely NO issues with your Westerfield kits. I have
built many of them, and the stability of the resins used your product
has never given me any issues. And I've had the pleasure to build
everything from your early "Fowler" 36' steel-frame boxcar moulded in
a hard resin (I dare not drop it) to the NYC one-piece body steel
boxcar. All are excellent models, and I'll buy and build more of your
kits yet. Yours are the "gold standard" in resin kits. IMHO, the
only thing you'll ever have to defend is why you didn't make more
kits. (Just having a little fun with you.)

In fact, a gentleman approached me at an NMRA train show that I was
displaying and working on a few models at last Sunday. Looking at a
CN "Fowler" box car on the table, he commented on the job that I'd
done putting together a wood car kit. He was shocked to see the
Westerfield box that it came in!

Bill Darnaby's posting is instructive, in that he states that he has
assembled hundred of resin kits, and never had any issues. Perhaps I
have run into two exceptions that are best explained by those more
well versed in statistical probability, i.e. it is possible, but might
be in the order of 1/200,000, etc...(I should buy some lottery
tickets, perhaps? ;)

Another factor mentioned was the care taken by the manufacturer when
mixing and pouring the resin into the mould. This is a valid point
too, and one that the modeller can only determine by kit reviews,
their personal experience, and talking with fellow modellers.

Steve Lucas.




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





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Re: accurate Barber trucks

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
Mark, if you compare photos of the O-50-14 cars in my Vol. 5
with box cars in Vol. 4, you will see that this truck is very
similar,
though not identical, to the ASF A-3. Kato makes an excellent HO
model
of that truck. There is also evidence that Athearn's "Bettendorf"
truck was intended to be an A-3, as it has many of the features,
but
is fairly crude compared to the Kato version.
Tony Thompson
Thanks, twice!

Mark Pierce


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mark Pierce asked:
Which HO-model truck(s) best, if not correctly, represents the Barber stabilized ASF trucks?
Richard Hendrickson replied:
Well, let's clear up a bit of confusion first. The Barber truck was not an ASF design.
True, but Mark is referring to SP's prewar car orders which were fitted with ASF trucks with Barber stabilization.

ASF (American Steel Foundries) did make Barber S-2 and S-2A trucks under license, but the principal manufacturer of the trucks was the Standard Car Truck Co.
True, but irrelevant, as the sideframes in question were in fact made by ASF. Since the Barber stabilization feature really only is visible in the bolster end, while the overall sideframe shape was typically (and was in this case) the producer's design, in this case ASF.

Now to the main point of your question. There are currently no HO scale trucks which accurately represent the Barber S-2 truck with spring plank. However, the more common Barber S-2A is well represented by Branchline's truck, which should be available from larger retail dealers or direct from Branchline.
Here is my reply to Mark's question, as posted to the Espee list, with reference to his original query about an SP car class:

Mark, if you compare photos of the O-50-14 cars in my Vol. 5 with box cars in Vol. 4, you will see that this truck is very similar, though not identical, to the ASF A-3. Kato makes an excellent HO model of that truck. There is also evidence that Athearn's "Bettendorf" truck was intended to be an A-3, as it has many of the features, but is fairly crude compared to the Kato version.
I continue to believe that what is needed is an ASF sideframe, not a Standard Car Truck sideframe.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 25, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Mark Pierce wrote:

Which HO-model truck(s) best, if not correctly, represents the Barber
stabilized ASF trucks? Thanks!



Well, let's clear up a bit of confusion first. The Barber truck was
not an ASF design. Over the years, the Barber name was used for a
variety of car truck design features by the Standard Car Truck Co.
because it was John C. Barber who founded the company in 1896. STC
developed a patented bolster snubber arrangement for AAR cast steel
trucks in the 1930s which culminated in the Barber Stabilized S-2 and
S-2A trucks (the S-2 had a spring plank, the S-2A did not). ASF
(American Steel Foundries) did make Barber S-2 and S-2A trucks under
license, but the principal manufacturer of the trucks was the
Standard Car Truck Co. ASF's own truck design with built-in bolster
snubbers was the ASF A-3 "Ride Control" truck, whose similarity in
principle to the Barber Stabilized trucks actually led
(unsuccessfully) to a lawsuit for patent infringement.

From the mid-1930s through the 1950s the Barber S-2A was produced in
large numbers as a self-aligning spring-plankless plain bearing
truck, rivaled only by the even more popular ASF A-3. Both the
Barber S-2A and ASF A-3 were then redesigned as roller bearing trucks
and in that form both continue in production today.

Now to the main point of your question. There are currently no HO
scale trucks which accurately represent the Barber S-2 truck with
spring plank. However, the more common Barber S-2A is well
represented by Branchline's truck, which should be available from
larger retail dealers or direct from Branchline.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Caboose of a Different Color C-2502

Schuyler Larrabee
 

James Mischke wrote:
Faux paint is common. Example: In a 1000 car new freight car order,
the first car is built, a meeting with the railroad held in its
presence, and a punch list of changes negotiated. This first car is
often painted gray or aluminum with black lettering for camera
friendliness, then repainted like the others before delivery.
Folklore has it this gray paint might be water soluable and washed off
... this needs verification.
I know this is true for several SP freight car orders, because
the memorandum of acceptance for the cars talked about the water-base
gray (I've never heard of aluminum for this use).

Tony Thompson
Tony, does "water-base" in this case equal "water-soluble?" There are permanent water-base paints
. . .

SGL


accurate Barber trucks

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

Which HO-model truck(s) best, if not correctly, represents the Barber
stabilized ASF trucks? Thanks!

Mark Pierce

114001 - 114020 of 192721