Date   

Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Tim O'Connor
 

Box car "shortages" were a common complaint in the STMFC
era. I am sure that a shortline near a major terminus like
Portland OR or Seattle WA could receive a real dog's breakfast
of empty cars from its connecting railroads (UP/SP/GN/NP/MILW/SP&S)
if car supply were tight. All clean 40 foot or 50 foot box cars
look alike to a lumber mill...

Tim O'Connor

There is a video tape...I probably have it...of a short line in the
Cascades. It showed Pennsy and NYC box cars on its trains. This showing took
place about 10 yrs ago so I can't recall more. I'll try to find the tape.
Mike Brock


Re: The third hand

Paul Lyons
 

Since the thickness of a resin car?side is never the exactly the same from one end to the other, even after sanded on a glass plate: and very seldom, if?ever,?are two ends exactly the same?width, I do not see how you can achieve any visual quality of construction on the models outside using a?"properly sized wood block"?on the inside as the spacer.

One of the?real keys to a good resin model is to get the side/end relationship correct and we are talking?about a?thousandth of an inch so being the difference between a really good model and a so-so one. Because I find it so critical, I now use a right angle clamp to assist in this fit up. However, let me say?I have built many kits without this clamp. Usually "tacking" the side/end togrther and breaking them apart several times before getting it right.?Because of this, I do not think a right clamp is mandatory, but I definitely think it is a big help if contest?quality models are your goal.?

Manfied,if the wood spacer?technique works for you great, but I would hate to see folks think that there is suddenly a new easier way to build quality resin kits.

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Manfred Lorenz <germanfred55@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 7:02 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: The third hand






--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "peteraue" <peteraue@...> wrote:
I built a number of resin kit boxcars and found a properly sized
wood
block and a few rubber bands almost ideal. The thickness of the wood
block exactly matches the inside width of the boxcar and it must be
3/8" or so shorter than the inside length of the car. I attach both
car sides and the car floor to the block (with rubber bands)and glue
the floor to the sides. If sides and floor do not line up
perfectly, I
sand them flush with the wood block in place. Thereafter I attach
the
ends (more rubber bands)such that there are gaps between the ends of
the block and the car ends. I line it all up, run ACC down on the
inside of all four corners and bingo - I have a perfectly square
carbody. I leave the wood block inside the carbody for detailing the
underframe until I must take it out for attaching the roof.
Thanks for sharing your technique. That sounds straight forward and
simple. What bothers me is the sanding part. Albeit easy enough.

I have to do without the clamp. Reading your way of doing it it
appears to me to try using super magnets semi-permanently tacked to
the outer surface of the car sides and ends and position them on a
block of iron replacing the rubber bands. What it still needs is also
a perfectly parallel inner surface of each part.

Hmm, thinking while writing: How abouts three (3) screws through the
block that adjust the part to parallel with the block from below? The
holes are sunken into the block so they don't obstruct the opposit
side they try to adjust. The magnets should perhaps be strong enough
to overcome the small distances involved to compensate for any back
side irregularities. Or the screws have a moveable plate on their
tips like a clamp which is large enough to give the magnets a partner
to grip without being too precisely positioned?

Maybe some bluetack could replace the magnets? Then the block has to
be smaller than the width of the car to allow for the modelling clay.

Maybe a product idea?

Manfred


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Marty McGuirk
 

A while back I posted a compilation of a series of wheel reports for
all northbound boxcar traffic from White River Junction, Vermont, on
the CV (it's in the Files section under
CVWRJboxcarpecentSep1955.html).

A couple of thoughts based on this particular exercise:
1. Excatly 1/2 of the cars were CN
2. There's a suprisingly large percentage of home road "CV" cars
considering the relatively small size of the road's boxcar fleet.
3. As a CN subsidiary, there would be a large number of CN cars on CV
rails since, IAW car handling rules most of those CN cars are heading
home
4. This data doesn't support any of the more common model railroad
perceptions of car fleet proportions - looking at these numbers one
wouldn't conclude that "everyone should be a PRR (or NYC, or ATSF
etc . . .) modeler" - there were as many IC cars as ATSF cars
5. Although we have reason to believe this data set is complete for
October 1953 running north from WRJ, we don't have the complete
picture of cars running in the opposite direction

The main conclusion I drew from this is I better stock up on CN
boxcars! Something photo study had already revealed to me.

And no Jack, no "Ball Line" cars for me either.


Re: The third hand

Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Donald B. Valentine" <riverman_vt@...>
wrote:

At the risk of becoming the feature character of an EPA "Wanted"
poster I will state that I have used the smooth inside surface of two
pieces of Johns-Manville asbestos siding for this purpose for years.
I still have a slab of "Eternit" an asbestos product used for water
pipes, roofs and garden pots that came with my chemistry lab kit. That
is still level. But also stored at a secret (I forgot where) place in
the house.

Manfred


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

Jack,

Do you have any data showing which cars arrived loaded and which were
supplied by ATSF or SP for lumber loading?

John King

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:

Steve wrote:

Its been a few years since I last looked up this information but
I know that Railway Age used to publish this kind of data in
either their January or February issues (or maybe it was
monthly?).

We talked about this a few months ago regarding reports, etc. It is
obvious
that the railroads collected this information because of per diem
payments.
I have some AAR "Empty Freight Cars on Hand" data which was
tabulated twice
a month...on the 15th and on the 31st. I wish I had more but what I
have is
for the period December 31, 1936 through March 31, 1937. The empty
cars on
hand on those reporting dates were:

ATSF Box 14
GN Box 4
SP Box 16
UP Box 1
Other Box 7
SP Auto 1
UP Auto 2
WP Auto 14
ATSF Open Top 14
SP Open Top 3
Other* 13
* Other (Not box, auto, refrig, or open top)

This is obviously a very small sample but there were 69 freight
cars from
western roads (ATSF, SP, etc.) and 20 non-western railroad cars
meaning 77%
of the empty cars on hand on those dates were from western roads.
The
"other" box cars could have included NYC and anything else...those
might
have been in proportion to the national fleet. The Other* cars
would have
included tank cars (most likely ULTX), refrigerator cars (PFE,
Santa Fe),
and other types of cars.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: ancient N&W gondola?

Charlie Vlk
 

Tim-
Who are you calling ancient???
To this group, ancient would have to have wood, unsprung truck frames and operate on strap rail!
The car is square in the middle of STMFC area!!!
What are those black and blue things in front of it in the video????
Charlie Vlk


Re: PS-0? 1940 Pullman Welded Box Car by AW Enterprises - Thoughts?

water.kresse@...
 

Are these the 0.05 " thick sided box cars (w/9 welded panels on each side of the door)?  PM 84000-84099 Feb 1940 P-S Mfg, Michigan city, IN?   Noted on diag sht has them titled as Light Wt Box C ars.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "parkcitybranch" <parkcitybranch@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 12:53:47 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] PS-0? 1940 Pullman Welded Box Car by AW Enterprises - Thoughts?

Anyone familiar with the AW Enterprises HO Scale brass 1940 Pullman
Welded Box Car and can provide an opinion on its accuracy.  Reading
the archives it souns like this car is also called the PS-0.  Are the
PS-0 decals that F&C offers failry accurate?  Thanks.

Jason Sanford



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ancient N&W gondola?

sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I snagged and uploaded a JPEG of an old gondola from this
Youtube video
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Wh0zXSQbo>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Wh0zXSQbo

It's a low side car and I was wondering if it could
be modeled using any of the available resin kits.

Tim O'Connor

Link to JPEG
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/nw_210xxxx_gondola_mofw_green-paint_2009.jpg
Tim: How about Speedwitch (http://www.speedwitch.com/Models/k116.htm)
It might not be the same car.
Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


PS-0? 1940 Pullman Welded Box Car by AW Enterprises - Thoughts?

parkcitybranch <parkcitybranch@...>
 

Anyone familiar with the AW Enterprises HO Scale brass 1940 Pullman
Welded Box Car and can provide an opinion on its accuracy. Reading
the archives it souns like this car is also called the PS-0. Are the
PS-0 decals that F&C offers failry accurate? Thanks.

Jason Sanford


ancient N&W gondola?

Tim O'Connor
 

I snagged and uploaded a JPEG of an old gondola from this
Youtube video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Wh0zXSQbo>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Wh0zXSQbo

It's a low side car and I was wondering if it could
be modeled using any of the available resin kits.

Tim O'Connor

Link to JPEG
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/nw_210xxxx_gondola_mofw_green-paint_2009.jpg


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /nw_210xxxx_gondola_mofw_green-paint_2009.jpg
Uploaded by : cf5250 <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Description : Old N&W gondola still in service

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/nw_210xxxx_gondola_mofw_green-paint_2009.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

cf5250 <timboconnor@comcast.net>


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

While the odds of any particular small railroad's car (most likely a
box car) would be on another, far-away, small railroad's tracks is
probably too small to measure, I propose that the odds of any one of
all such small railroads' cars showing up is much higher. For us
model railroaders, I say have a small fleet of "oddball" rolling
stock but rotate them on/off the layout.

Mark Pierce

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks can argue whether the Nelson-Gilbert model is valid or
not 'til
they are blue in the face, but one advantage we, as WWII era
modelers
have, is that the Nelson-Gilbert model is the RULE... since the
car
service rules were suspended. What that does for you in this
situation is unclear, since the M&W proportion of the national
pool
is pretty small...say for the purposes of discussion, 0.1% In
that
case one M&W car would visit the YV for every 1000 foreign boxcars
that visit. Not impossible, but definitely unlikely. Normally, I
think most of us say "don't model the oddballs", but in this case,
this is a "teachable moment". The presence of occasional rare-
road
boxcars represents the REALITY of the WWII traffic pattern, and is
part of what is "normal" for that period of time. I have reserved
a
small percentage of my fleet for "interesting" rare foreign cars
for
precisely that reason.


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jack Burgess writes:

"I wish I had more but what I have is
for the period December 31, 1936 through March 31, 1937. The empty cars on
hand on those reporting dates were:

ATSF Box 14
GN Box 4
SP Box 16
UP Box 1
Other Box 7
SP Auto 1
UP Auto 2
WP Auto 14
ATSF Open Top 14
SP Open Top 3
Other* 13
* Other (Not box, auto, refrig, or open top)"

This is obviously a very small sample but there were 69 freight cars from
western roads (ATSF, SP, etc.) and 20 non-western railroad cars meaning 77%
of the empty cars on hand on those dates were from western roads. The
"other" box cars could have included NYC and anything else...those might
have been in proportion to the national fleet."

Good grief! Talk about local connection aspects. The ATSF and SP presence makes the larger than projected SP box car presence in Wyoming...commonly referred to as the "SP Ogden Connection box car syndrome"...look like noise. And, I'm not so certain that this is a small sample, either. While there may be only 89 cars and only MTs are being tabulated, from what you say, you are seeing MTs of 1/4 of the yearly activity...perhaps projecting to 1/8th of the total box car activity. The Fraley Wyoming UP data only reflects 1/35 of the box car data for loads and MTs during about a month and a half and we compose theories and laws about box car populations from that data that make the flat earth guys look like geniuses.

BTW, are you aware that you may be in direct violation of Brock's Fifth rule of box cars? [ or is it the fourth? ]. Since you may be unaware..."In every merchandise frt train [ not including coal, reefer, or tank car drags ], Thou Shall have at least ONE NP box car". However, as far as I know, there is no sub rule regarding just MT's.

Mike Brock


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Jack Burgess
 

Steve wrote:

Its been a few years since I last looked up this information but
I know that Railway Age used to publish this kind of data in
either their January or February issues (or maybe it was monthly?).
We talked about this a few months ago regarding reports, etc. It is obvious
that the railroads collected this information because of per diem payments.
I have some AAR "Empty Freight Cars on Hand" data which was tabulated twice
a month...on the 15th and on the 31st. I wish I had more but what I have is
for the period December 31, 1936 through March 31, 1937. The empty cars on
hand on those reporting dates were:

ATSF Box 14
GN Box 4
SP Box 16
UP Box 1
Other Box 7
SP Auto 1
UP Auto 2
WP Auto 14
ATSF Open Top 14
SP Open Top 3
Other* 13
* Other (Not box, auto, refrig, or open top)

This is obviously a very small sample but there were 69 freight cars from
western roads (ATSF, SP, etc.) and 20 non-western railroad cars meaning 77%
of the empty cars on hand on those dates were from western roads. The
"other" box cars could have included NYC and anything else...those might
have been in proportion to the national fleet. The Other* cars would have
included tank cars (most likely ULTX), refrigerator cars (PFE, Santa Fe),
and other types of cars.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:34 AM, Jack Burgess wrote:

Bruce noted:

[snip]
Folks can argue whether the Nelson-Gilbert model is valid or not 'til
they are blue in the face, but one advantage we, as WWII era modelers
have, is that the Nelson-Gilbert model is the RULE... since the car
service rules were suspended.
But I model 1939...<g>
Oh right <G>... Well, the good news is that boxcar utilization was already an issue and while the car service rules had yet to be suspended, they were widely ignored ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:35 AM, S hed wrote:


Its been a few years since I last looked up this information but I know that Railway Age used to publish this kind of data in either their January or February issues (or maybe it was monthly?).

I am 100% sure they showed the number of engines on the road and the number of engines out of service. And I am 95% sure that the tables show how many cars (or percentage) were home road cars and how many were foreign cars that ran on the railroad for the previous year. Like I said, it has been a few years since I went to the library and got that information. And I know that they published the data for the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, and possibly the 1950s.

I seem to recall that Railway Age did this for most class one railroads. And I'm pretty sure that they did that for SP&S but I am not sure if they did it for the SN. Does anyone else remember that this too?

- Steve Hedlund, Everett, WA
Steve,

The problem with that sort of data is that it is not broken down by car type, and so it can be pretty hard to use. For example, the PRR averaged just about 50% home road cars for the entire steam era. So does that mean that 50% of my boxcars are PRR? Nope! In reality, as we have talked about here many times, hoppers roamed less than gons, which roamed less than boxcars. So a "guestimate" for the PRR would be 75% home road hoppers, 50% home road gons and only 25% home road boxcars. Thus, only one type of cars, gons, comes close to the data in Railway Age.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: The third hand

Jack Burgess
 

David mentioned this place for buying small drills:

http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/
I had to return the last dozen packages of #79 and #80 drills from Drill
City since they weren't sharpened at all...just broken off. That might
explain the cheap price.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

S hed <shed999@...>
 

Its been a few years since I last looked up this information but I know that Railway Age used to publish this kind of data in either their January or February issues (or maybe it was monthly?).

I am 100% sure they showed the number of engines on the road and the number of engines out of service. And I am 95% sure that the tables show how many cars (or percentage) were home road cars and how many were foreign cars that ran on the railroad for the previous year. Like I said, it has been a few years since I went to the library and got that information. And I know that they published the data for the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, and possibly the 1950s.

I seem to recall that Railway Age did this for most class one railroads. And I'm pretty sure that they did that for SP&S but I am not sure if they did it for the SN. Does anyone else remember that this too?

- Steve Hedlund, Everett, WA



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom: jimbetz@jimbetz.comDate: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:06:41 -0800Subject: [STMFC] Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs



I been hearing about - and using - the "recommended percentages" forfreight cars for quite some time. I don't know why I never thought aboutthis before but my attention just got drawn to a fairly small RR and I am wondering about what happened on those kinds of operations.For instance, let's say that the RR in question is a small regional such as the SP&S or the Sacramento Northern (before they were so totally absorbed into their parent company/companies). It seems possible to me that their"home road percentages" were probably often (always?) significantlydifferent from what you would see on the larger RRs. It wouldn't surprise me at to see that some of their trains - even the longer ones -would not have -any- home road cars in them.So was this the case? Are there recommended "home road percentages"for RRs of this type? Or did the "return in the general direction ofthe home road" practice actually work just as well for small RRs asit did for the big ones. Another way to ask this question is ... ifthe RR in question is a small RR then does it still have the samegeneral percentage of home road cars on line at any one point in time?- Jim





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Jack Burgess
 

Bruce noted:

[snip]
Folks can argue whether the Nelson-Gilbert model is valid or not 'til
they are blue in the face, but one advantage we, as WWII era modelers
have, is that the Nelson-Gilbert model is the RULE... since the car
service rules were suspended.
But I model 1939...<g>

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: The third hand

James Eckman
 

Try cabinet door magnets with a flat steel work surface and some angle plates. Fairly cheap and works well, you can also throw in some odd pieces of angle iron.

Jim Eckman

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