Date   

Roster of 40' riveted 12 panel AAR box cars

Earl Tuson
 

I have uploaded a preliminary roster of 40' riveted 12 panel AAR box cars to the groups files area. I am not sure if this has been compiled elsewhere previously. If you have a moment, please review this and offer any additions and corrections you may have. My data on the D&RGW and DL&W cars is a bit sketchy in particular. It is titled 12PANELAAR.pdf. Thank you for your assistance,

Earl Tuson


Re: Mainline Modeler back issues

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Claus,

Try railpub.com. Railpub is a used book and magazine dealer specializing in railroad and model railroad titles.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


AMB Wheels Masks

Mike Fortney
 

Finally - a durable, cleanable (acrylic AND solvent-based paints),
flexible wheel mask with a built-in handle. Might not be able to paint
more than four wheelsets at a time, but with the ease of
loading/unloading, one should be able to paint just as many in the
same amount of time as using other, more unwieldy masks. Having less
mask material in the way of the airbrush stream is also a big plus.

http://www.rgspemkt.com/WheelMask.html

Mike Fortney

Disclaimer: Yeah, I'll confess to being one of the culprits nagging
AMB for years to produce this!


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:


Consider: I model only a tiny part of Sherman Hill and only about 3
hrs of
traffic during one op session. 8 frt trains in all. I compress both the
layout and the frt trains...from 75 to 30 cars. About 100 box
cars....or 12
per train if they were applied equally which they were not. Using
the % of
the entire box car fleet, I should have 4 SP box cars. However, in
order to
model the infamous X4005 train with its 36 SP box cars...very close
to 50%
of the known train...I would need 15 SP box cars [ 50% of a 30 car
train ].
To do that and stay within the N-G envelope of 4% of the national
fleet, I
would need 375 box cars. But...I will need more SP box cars to populate
other trains so I'll go with 20 SP box cars. I now need 500 box
cars. The
question then is...how do I apply these 500 box cars to my 8 frt
trains and
their average of 12 per train? In any session the number of box cars
should
be about 100...leaving 400 in their boxes.

What does this do for the MWR car? Well, nothing. The 1953 ORER
shows 100
MWR box cars. For me to have one MWR box car and match the N-G data
base, I
would need 7400 box cars.

Mike Brock
Mike,

One way to use the N-G distribution model is to assess "plausibility"
for the presence of foreign road box cars on your layout. Needing one
train with 15 SP box cars doesn't instantly drive you into a huge box
car fleet. But unless the train ran several times a day, it makes a
strong case for letting the X4005 train stay in staging some days, and
perhaps fiddling the other box cars in that train. If you want to
emulate N-G, then I would simply segregate the SP cars dedicated to
this train from the rest of your fleet balance targets. So now you
need 15 SP cars for X4005, and 100 for the rest of your trains to
maintain N-G.

To my thinking, the intent of N-G is make a model railroad visit more
like a stop along the prototype's track. If you randomly stoped along
sherman hill in your era for 3 hours (more if you run a fast clock),
would you expect to see X4005 every visit? IF yes - run it every session.

As for the MWR car, same concept, how may 3 hour visits to sherman
hill before you spot it? One, ten, one hundred? Stats would suggest it
would be pretty infrequent. Same for the Ann Arbor, D&H and other
small roads (although they would appear much more often than the MWR,
but certainly these roads would not be seen every visit).

My lessons learned from this thread are:

1) N-G should apply to mainline trunk routes where the nation's
traffic is traversing a layout.

2) N-G applies to general merchandise deliveries from staging to
almost any industry where captive cars were not used, for most layouts
that received traffic from around the country.

3) It is very doubtful that N-G applies to empties delivered to small
branch lines by a larger road. When/where MTs were in surplus the
large road might send what would take them the longest to get rid of.

4) N-G may apply to MT box cars passing across a layout. It is
doubtful, depending on the era and location, that it would apply to
MTs arriving from staging for use at a specific on-layout yard that
was collecting MT's for distribution.

5) It DOES NOT apply to branch lines, or even medium sized lnes that
were not "trunking" the nation's traffic, in part because some (or
many) cars may be in captive service.

6) Having cars from small roads is perfectly acceptable - but they
should be fiddled in - it could be on a dice roll, or more analytic.
It seems that having an extra 30-60 box cars from smaller lines (and
some of these may be well known lines for a smaller fleet), is all
that is required to provide some sense of "randomness" to trains
entering the layout from staging.

7) It may be worth creating three pools - one of the dominant road's
cars, where nearly all are used all the time (assuming the layout can
handle your collection), one from lines that appear less then every
session, but were numerous. Depending on the extent of your
collection, 20-50% of these cars would be fiddled in each session. The
third pool would be the rarities (e.g. MWR on your UP mainline). If
you had 20 of these cars, you might randomly draw two per op session.

We need to ponder if some of the "attraction" to the rare car is, in
fact, because they were spotted so rarely on the prototype. I would
guess that when 50% of the WWII fleet was owned by 11 roads, spotting
the rare car would be a memorable event. But if you rail-fanned
sherman hill, based on your conductors reports, and saw 8 trains go
by, just how many of the cars would be from fleets smaller than say
the 20th road (C&O)? N-G would suggest that 25% of the cars would be
from these "smaller" lines (SOO, WAB, Erie, N&W, SAL, PM, GTW, RDG,
ACL, SAL, NYNH, DL&W, and over 100 others) Yet the 12 lines listed
have 100 times as many box cars as MWR.

I think the concept has some very positive merit. The good news is
that having 50% of your fleet from the 11 major roads is probably
pretty easy to accomplish, unless your fleet is primarily resin, in
which case I think you can do whatever you want ;-)

And it would not take a large fleet of cars from smaller roads to
create a "prototypical" sense of the occasional rare car passing
through your layout.

The one down side to this is that you need to be able to fiddle your
trains in staging so you can provide a prototypical sense of
"randomness" (I hate to breach the subject of rare car classes and how
often they should appear... Nevermind.)

The interesting finding is that because 50% of the boxcar fleet was in
11 roads, the "fiddle" pools do not need to be huge - 30-60 cars
depending on the size of the layout and the length of the PP's memory
(don't let them collect on-layout wheel reports!) And it is quite
reasonable to run that MWR car once every few sessions. Just don't put
it in a string of D&H, B&M, D&LW, AA, and RDG box cars, or no one may
notice it!

Dave Evans


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs - Calif. Zinc Ore

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote (answering Tim's question):
Very interesting! So now the question is did those gondolas travel the ATSF-WP-GN inside gateway route to Great Falls, or SP-UP-MILW?
Either Richard or Tony might be able to find the answer as they have the GN:WP exchange books that cover several periods of time.
Yes, we have books for one month out of each of two years, 1947 and 1952 (if memory serves). But note that this is AFTER the zinc mine shut down, so any of the zinc traffic would be pretty unlikely to be in those books.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs - Calif. Zinc Ore

Dave Nelson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Steve

Very interesting! So now the question is did those gondolas travel
the ATSF-WP-GN inside gateway route to Great Falls, or SP-UP-MILW?
:-)

Tim O'Connor
Either Richard or Tony might be able to find the answer as they have the
GN:WP exchange books that cover several periods of time.

Dave Nelson


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Dave Nelson
 

Mike Brock wrote:

Yes. Modeling the UP on Sherman Hill over a three hour time period
with its 35 frt trains doesn't match well with, for example, a yr's
worth of data.
I have never said a year long sample was required. I have always suggested
that a minimum of 1000 foreign road boxcars be counted and always felt more
comfortable w/ something closer to 1500. On some secondary line, seeing
1000 foreign road boxcars might take a rather long time, tho I still think a
year is way too long. On Sherman Hill, I suspect 1000 foreign road cars
would be seen in days.

Moving on, Mike, you continue to toss out the argument that since your data
has 1 train w/ a large number of SP boxcars in it that the distribution
hyposthesis isn't very useful. I have countered numerous times that 1) one
train does not make a sample and 2) the distribution hypothesis has nothing
whatsoever to say about the composition of a single train. I will fall
back, once again, on my Yoplait Yogurt in the shopping car example: I do not
purchase Yoplait at regular prices (tho my daughter may slip in one or two
when I'm not looking); However when they are half off I but a whole lot of
them. The composition of my carts therefore varies considerably when
examined individually but the average number of yoplaits I buy over numerous
trips is probably pretty constant over time if enough trips are recorded and
analyzed.

What does this do for the MWR car? Well, nothing. The 1953 ORER shows 100
MWR box cars. For me to have one MWR box car
and match the N-G data base, I would need 7400 box cars. Anyone think I'll
make it? Incidentally, using the 500 box car data base, I
could not use a box car if a RR had less than 1480 box cars. Whew. SP&S
barely makes it in. Tucson, Cornelia, and Gila Bend with
their 3 cars missed the cut along with the Montana, Wyoming &
Southern...which might be over represented due to their close proximity
to the UP except for the fact that they had no box cars.
That is all correct. Which is why Hendrickson was hyperventilating earlier
today about absurdites. Fortunately, yours is a hobby, not a job, so if you
want to enjoy a MWR car, go ahead. Just keep it out of sight when Richard
visits. 8-) Or leave it over on the shelf in a nice display, where it
probably belongs all of the time.

Let me return to discuss a point I mentioned earlier today, which is,
really, which hobby: The problems most often raised on this subject are the
problems of (physical) model railroads, not of the distribution hypothesis
itself (that does have objections but they're mentioned less often). I
operate a (virtual) model railroad and can have many hundreds of 60, 70, 80
car consists composed, in total, of thousands of individual cars. My
constraint is the limited availablity of models, not the number of them (and
certainly not the cost... As they are all free), and that makes for a very
big difference in the utility of the distribution hypothesis.

Dave Nelson


Re: MKT SS box cars

Gene Deimling <losgatos48@...>
 

I noticed your comment about MKT single sheathed surviving in Sloan
Yellow into the 1950s. I am working on patterns for this car and
have photos of a fair number of cars taken in the 1960s still in
Yellow. A quick check of the pictures shows 95038,95680 and
96264. In the background of 95038, there appears to be string of
cars in yellow. The photo was taken in Fort Worth around 1969.
I am not disputed the statement that "few if any cars survived in
yellow". It does give photographic proof that cars lasted a long
time in this color scheme.

Gene Deimling

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Feb 3, 2009, at 9:34 AM, ed_mines wrote:

I asked this question before - how common were BC red, SS MKT box
cars
just after WWII?

I saw a 1958-59 NKP video on TV yesterday with an aforementioned
BCR
car.






I have photographic evidence of a yellow car repainted in 6-48 and
a
BCR car repainted in 4-49 (as well as several BCR cars repainted
in
the early '50s). So by the '58-'59 date of the video, few (if
any)
Katy SS box cars would have survived in yellow. And cars started
to
be repainted yellow ca. 1942 - I have a photo of a car repainted
BCR
in 10-41- so some BCR cars doubtless lasted into the early prewar
era, especially considering the deferred maintenance of the war
years.


Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: MKT SS box cars

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Richard,

At least one survived into at least 1958. You will find a photo of a
yellow SS MKT boxcar in the group's photos section under MKT. This car
was yellow... well most of it. There was a good deal of flaking paint
and exposed -- graying -- wood. And the reweight information was white
lettering on BCR patches.

The location is Bartlesville, Oklahoma. The car was on the team track
being unloaded. The load was bricks.

The photo is not that good as it is a scan from a rather poor
enlargement. But the camera was not that good either. A Kodak 616 with
a pull-out metal bellows. Oh, and the photographer was a 12 year old
kid. Me.

I am planning on modeling this specific car.

Cheers,
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Feb 5, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Feb 3, 2009, at 9:34 AM, ed_mines wrote:

I asked this question before - how common were BC red, SS MKT box
cars
just after WWII?

I saw a 1958-59 NKP video on TV yesterday with an aforementioned BCR
car.
I have photographic evidence of a yellow car repainted in 6-48 and a
BCR car repainted in 4-49 (as well as several BCR cars repainted in
the early '50s). So by the '58-'59 date of the video, few (if any)
Katy SS box cars would have survived in yellow. And cars started to
be repainted yellow ca. 1942 - I have a photo of a car repainted BCR
in 10-41- so some BCR cars doubtless lasted into the early prewar
era, especially considering the deferred maintenance of the war years.

Richard Hendrickson





Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Dave Nelson writes:

"I'll repeat myself: Tim and I were doing analysis of railroads, not model
railroads. Our hypothesis on the distribution of ordinary boxcars was for
real world data. That it might have some bearing on what an owner of a
model railroad could do has always been a bit problematic, if, for no other
reason, the huge reduction in the sample size."

One thing that I have been arguing for is that the process one chooses to develop a box car fleet [ other fleets for other types of cars will be needed ] is that such a fleet needs to be capable of producing trains that match...with compression...actual trains. My conception of the N-G theory is that it shows box car populations over a very long time period...perhaps a yr. The problem I have is, will it address train consists?

Consider: I model only a tiny part of Sherman Hill and only about 3 hrs of traffic during one op session. 8 frt trains in all. I compress both the layout and the frt trains...from 75 to 30 cars. About 100 box cars....or 12 per train if they were applied equally which they were not. Using the % of the entire box car fleet, I should have 4 SP box cars. However, in order to model the infamous X4005 train with its 36 SP box cars...very close to 50% of the known train...I would need 15 SP box cars [ 50% of a 30 car train ]. To do that and stay within the N-G envelope of 4% of the national fleet, I would need 375 box cars. But...I will need more SP box cars to populate other trains so I'll go with 20 SP box cars. I now need 500 box cars. The question then is...how do I apply these 500 box cars to my 8 frt trains and their average of 12 per train? In any session the number of box cars should be about 100...leaving 400 in their boxes.

What does this do for the MWR car? Well, nothing. The 1953 ORER shows 100 MWR box cars. For me to have one MWR box car and match the N-G data base, I would need 7400 box cars. Anyone think I'll make it? Incidentally, using the 500 box car data base, I could not use a box car if a RR had less than 1480 box cars. Whew. SP&S barely makes it in. Tucson, Cornelia, and Gila Bend with their 3 cars missed the cut along with the Montana, Wyoming & Southern...which might be over represented due to their close proximity to the UP except for the fact that they had no box cars.

BTW, will I have to run 7399 box cars before the MWR car can show? Of course not. It might be the first...or 640th...car. However, you can also toss 24 7's in a row at a crap table in a Las Vegas Casino except for the fact that, after the 12th such toss, your toss might be a bit off course since your fingers...among other items...will all be broken. Still...there is no reason why...

Mike Brock



Yes. Modeling the UP on Sherman Hill over a three hour time period with its 35 frt trains doesn't match well with, for example, a yr's worth of data. Then, compress the 8 trains by 60%...from about 75 cars to 30.

my 100 box cars, I cannot generate a
compressed version of X4005 and its 36 SP box cars. I mean...compressing by
60%, I still need 14 SP box cars and the SP national % of 4% only gives me 4
of my 100 total not allowing that. I would, in fact, need 350 box cars to
give me enough to produce the train in question. And, since I would need
other SP box cars in frt trains...say 20 in total...I would need about 500
box cars. In that case, I would have to spread the cars...do op sessions
with different cars. The trouble with that is that I cannot just randomly
select cars. I still only have 8 frt trains and I can only apply about 1/5
of the fleet to the session.

As is obvious, model RRs compress everything. Compressing the box car fleet
will eventually

Continuing, I
always argued against the inclusion of Canadian marked cars... Or if
included, to set their railroads contribution to distributed fleet at 10% so
as to match the FACT that only 10% of home road cars loaded in Canada were
sent south of the border and that the law required them to be returned to
Canada quite directly.

Not expressed, but IMO a reasonable addition, would be to add something to
take into account the complete ownership of one road by another, such as the
SN by the WP, the T&NO by the SP, and yes, perhaps even the CV by the CN.

All of that slices out of the picture a lot of locations and in some cases,
a lot of cars (i.e., counting CN cars on the CV as home road).

So right off the bat, Jack Burgess and his YV were out of scope. As were
all the PRR boxcars in Enola Yard. I'm not familiar w/ the Ball Line
Route... But I want to ask: Were those cars part of the common carrier fleet
or were they private road cars? One would expect a different movement
pattern for the later.

In recent years I have done futher analysis on the Western Pacific traffic
and seen a very distinct pattern of a large number of loaded boxcars
terminating in the SF Bay Area and correspondingly fewer outbounds.
Slightly more than a 2:1 ratio. Thinking on that fact led me to realize the
WP had little need for storing ordinary, home road boxcars in protective
service in this area as they were "blessed" w/ a a generous supply provided
by everyone else. Which led to the notion that in areas where the
opposite traffic conditions were true... Such, places like, say, Modesto,
CA, the opposite conditions for protective service would also be true. If
true, then there may have been a fair number of SP and ATSF boxcars sitting
aound in and near Modesto... from which some could have been loaned to the
YV when asked for.

Moving on... As for the interesting analysis of how to manage a modeled
freight car fleet... I agree the correct procedure is to reserve some
portion of the foreign road boxcars -- I thought in the 10-20% range of the
owners nominal count of on-layout foreign road cars, for double or tripple
the number of cars that percentage calculated to, but bearing the marks of
smaller roads, cycling them in and out regularly. The only problems I see
with that approach is storage, extra handling, and the bother of having to
do it. But the theory is sound and the variety it provides, both visually
and in the pleasure of collecting them, could still make it worthwhile.

Dave Nelson



All of which adds to the difficulty of applying the hypothesis.

OTOH, for those few of us doing V-Scale -- that is computer sim railroading
-- we have the opportuity to do urban sites 1:1 (as I happen to be
modeling), to run 60, 70, 80 car freights (as I do), and to run over an
entire division of 100+ miles, with each town represented in full (as I
happen to be modeling). IOW, the difficulties of applying the distribution
to this method of modeling a setting disappears entirely.

All that said, I'll still stick to the premise that, absent historical data
for the site being modeled, the distribution model we offered is a pretty
decent place to start, whether one is modeling in plastic, resin, or
brass... or pixels.

Dave Nelson


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs - Calif. Zinc Ore

Tim O'Connor
 

Steve

Very interesting! So now the question is did those
gondolas travel the ATSF-WP-GN inside gateway route
to Great Falls, or SP-UP-MILW? :-)

Tim O'Connor

At 2/5/2009 06:32 PM Thursday, you wrote:
Tim / Jack,

Based on info in "Mineral Commodities of California" the zinc ore may
well have come from the Blue Moon mine in Mariposa County...

In 1942 the federal government began a program to increase production
"strategic minerals" within the US. Money was made available to
develop mine deposits, and by 1943, six additional zinc producers were
in operation in California. There were only four in 1942. By 1945
there were twelve mines operating in eight counties. Among these was
the Blue Moon in Mariposa County, close to Merced Falls. The
production, however, was "far in excess of development" and the Blue
Moon was one of two mines that would shut down by the end of 1945.

Historically in California, zinc output "boomed" during both WWI and
WWII. In the 1920's when prices were low, a smelter within the state
closed. As of the late 1940's it is noted in the text that zinc ore
still must be sent out of state for smelting, to Great Falls, Montana.
It was, however, refined in-state so as to be profitably shipped.
The book does not mention an in-state smelter starting up again during
WWII.

In the back of the book is a list of smelters which reported
purchasing California metals in 1948. The three listed as purchasing
zinc were: Anaconda Copper Mining Co., Great Falls, Mont.;
International Smelting & Ref. Co., Tooele, Utah; U. S. Smelting,
Refining & Mining Co., Midvale, Utah.

So, in 1944-45, it appears those C&O, D&RGW, Erie, IC, PMcK&Y, and SP
gons were heading out of state to a smelter. And, Jack's switch lists
catch them close to the end of the mine's operation.

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: Mainline Modeler back issues

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Claus - The NMRA library sells donated back issues at low cost. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Claus Schlund (HGM)
To: STMFC
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Mainline Modeler back issues


Hi,

I believe Mainline Modeler went belly-up soem time back.

Does anyone know if there is some good source of back issues of this magazine?

I'm trying to locate a copy of the Feb 2005 issue.

Thanks - Claus Schlund


Re: Mainline Modeler back issues

Jason Sanford <parkcitybranch@...>
 

I have always used Railpub for my back issue needs.
 
www.railpub.com

--- On Thu, 2/5/09, Claus Schlund (HGM) <claus@hellgatemodels.com> wrote:

From: Claus Schlund (HGM) <claus@hellgatemodels.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Mainline Modeler back issues
To: "STMFC" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 6:00 PM

Hi,

I believe Mainline Modeler went belly-up soem time back.

Does anyone know if there is some good source of back issues of this magazine?

I'm trying to locate a copy of the Feb 2005 issue.

Thanks - Claus Schlund





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Mainline Modeler back issues

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi,

I believe Mainline Modeler went belly-up soem time back.

Does anyone know if there is some good source of back issues of this magazine?

I'm trying to locate a copy of the Feb 2005 issue.

Thanks - Claus Schlund


Retail gas stations of the 1950's

Robert <riverob@...>
 

There are some great photos on the 700+ flickr Vintqage Gas Stations
pool. Almost all of which received products delivered, in good part,
by Steam Era Freight Cars:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/630928@N24/pool

Rob Simpson



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Raymond Young <rayvirg@...> wrote:

Brian,

I have a book, The American Gas Station, published by Motorbooks
International in 1992.  A catalog of Motorbooks International
publications is available from Motorbooks International, PO Box 1,
Osceola, WI  54020, 1-800-826-6600.  The address was given on the
dust jacket of the book.  It is well-illustrated and is presented by
periods from 1898 to 1992.  You might Google the title for more up-to-
date information.

Virgil Young
Amarillo, TX 




________________________________
From: Brian J. Carlson <brian@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:48:33 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Retail gas stations of the 1950's


I hope the Mike will allow mw a little latitude here since this
group is often a source of wide ranging information. I am looking for
an
avenue to determine what retail gasoline stations operated in the
towns I model in the mid 1950's. I have done the usual ebay
searches,
and am in the process of inquiring through local historical
societies,
old business directories, phone books etc.. Many of these towns had
a
bulk distributor' s that received shipment's in steam era tank
cars,
but through mergers and acquisitions, I am not sure who the players
were in 1957. Does anyone have any advice on where I might find
additional information?

Brian carlson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: MKT SS box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 3, 2009, at 9:34 AM, ed_mines wrote:

I asked this question before - how common were BC red, SS MKT box cars
just after WWII?

I saw a 1958-59 NKP video on TV yesterday with an aforementioned BCR
car.






I have photographic evidence of a yellow car repainted in 6-48 and a
BCR car repainted in 4-49 (as well as several BCR cars repainted in
the early '50s). So by the '58-'59 date of the video, few (if any)
Katy SS box cars would have survived in yellow. And cars started to
be repainted yellow ca. 1942 - I have a photo of a car repainted BCR
in 10-41- so some BCR cars doubtless lasted into the early prewar
era, especially considering the deferred maintenance of the war years.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Retail gas stations of the 1950's

Raymond Young
 

Brian,

I have a book, The American Gas Station, published by Motorbooks International in 1992.  A catalog of Motorbooks International publications is available from Motorbooks International, PO Box 1, Osceola, WI  54020, 1-800-826-6600.  The address was given on the dust jacket of the book.  It is well-illustrated and is presented by periods from 1898 to 1992.  You might Google the title for more up-to-date information.

Virgil Young
Amarillo, TX 




________________________________
From: Brian J. Carlson <brian@bluemoon.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:48:33 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Retail gas stations of the 1950's


I hope the Mike will allow mw a little latitude here since this group
is often a source of wide ranging information. I am looking for an
avenue to determine what retail gasoline stations operated in the
towns I model in the mid 1950's. I have done the usual ebay searches,
and am in the process of inquiring through local historical societies,
old business directories, phone books etc.. Many of these towns had a
bulk distributor' s that received shipment's in steam era tank cars,
but through mergers and acquisitions, I am not sure who the players
were in 1957. Does anyone have any advice on where I might find
additional information?

Brian carlson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Retail gas stations of the 1950's

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian J. Carlson

I have done the usual ebay searches,
and am in the process of inquiring through local historical societies,
old business directories, phone books etc.

----- Original Message -----

Those are the sources I used to get that same info. The business/phone directories were far and away the best, especially the ones that listed every building in order, by street. I would add one I didn't need to use: high school yearbooks. They always had small ads bought by local businesses.

If you are doing the PRR, I would go by the CT 1000 and work from there.

Sanborn maps are available at some university libraries and also online:

http://sanborn.umi.com/HelpFiles/index.html

You have to go through a library of some sort to get an account, IIRC.

KL


Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs - Calif. Zinc Ore

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

Tim / Jack,

Based on info in "Mineral Commodities of California" the zinc ore may
well have come from the Blue Moon mine in Mariposa County...

In 1942 the federal government began a program to increase production
"strategic minerals" within the US. Money was made available to
develop mine deposits, and by 1943, six additional zinc producers were
in operation in California. There were only four in 1942. By 1945
there were twelve mines operating in eight counties. Among these was
the Blue Moon in Mariposa County, close to Merced Falls. The
production, however, was "far in excess of development" and the Blue
Moon was one of two mines that would shut down by the end of 1945.

Historically in California, zinc output "boomed" during both WWI and
WWII. In the 1920's when prices were low, a smelter within the state
closed. As of the late 1940's it is noted in the text that zinc ore
still must be sent out of state for smelting, to Great Falls, Montana.
It was, however, refined in-state so as to be profitably shipped.
The book does not mention an in-state smelter starting up again during
WWII.

In the back of the book is a list of smelters which reported
purchasing California metals in 1948. The three listed as purchasing
zinc were: Anaconda Copper Mining Co., Great Falls, Mont.;
International Smelting & Ref. Co., Tooele, Utah; U. S. Smelting,
Refining & Mining Co., Midvale, Utah.

So, in 1944-45, it appears those C&O, D&RGW, Erie, IC, PMcK&Y, and SP
gons were heading out of state to a smelter. And, Jack's switch lists
catch them close to the end of the mine's operation.


John Hile
Blacksburg, VA







--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:

Tim wrote:
Jack was the zinc inbound, or outbound? If outbound, do
you know where it went?
It was outbound from Merced Falls/the YV and was considered
essential to the
war effort...they shipped 115 carloads in the first months of 1944.
I don't
know where it went. Switch lists from August 1945 show gondolas from the
C&O, D&RGW, Erie, IC, PMcK&Y, and SP being used for this purpose.


Re: The Value of Reference Photos

naptownprr
 

Charlie,

I agree with what you have to say, but I think you meant you like OBjective reviews, not SUBjective reviews.

Jim

Quoting Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net>:

Ohhhh!! Back to discussing Freight Cars!!!!

I'm all for including reference photos whenever possible. I know
that manufactuers and magazine article authors often have problems
securing photos that have publishing rights along with them, but to
me nothing is as valuable in judging modeling as a photo of the
prototype that allows me to make my own conclusions.

Reference photos provide context for models displayed at meets.
Without prior knowledge of a specific prototype how else would we
appreciate modeling beyond craftsmanship and convincing paint and
decals?

As regards layouts, the same is true. Here it is often interesting
to see how the essence of a scene, given necessary selective
compression and other compromises, are executed and are instructive
for translating our own favorites onto our railroads.

The German Model Railroad magazines do product reviews mostly with
pictures. Often times they will compare similar competing products,
taking identical views and matching them up with similar photos of
the prototype. Text is pretty much limited to a chart of the basic
statistics of the models compared to the prototype, with perhaps some
objective comments about model construction. No need to make
statements like "dimensions are generally close to available
prototype measurements" as you can read the table and make the
determination if one brand is more accurate than another. The
photos remove a great deal of pressure from the reviewer from not
saying anything negative about an advertiser..... if the roofwalk is
three times as thick as the competition or the prototype or the car
rides a foot higher off the trucks than it should the beholder will
or will not notice it or care according to their own preferences
and/or knowledge. I like subjective reviews.... they don't have
the overblown judgement of one person and aren't subject to politics
as much. As I recall, one of the worst (most honest) reviews that
ever slipped into print was a tongue in cheek statement that "it is a
good model from three feet away...".

Charlie Vlk



113601 - 113620 of 192593