Date   

Re: MP Eagle Merchandise colors

asychis@...
 

They did make to some pretty obscure places on the MP. In discussion with
Joe Collias, I sent him a photo of my layout with one of these cars spotted at
the house track in Zeigler. Joe made mention that he didn't think an Eagle
Merchandise Car would show up on the Southern Illinois coal branch lines.
But, lo and behold, a photo of the Bush yards around 1954 or so, that he sent
me, shows one of the cars.

Jerry Michels
**************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you.
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003)


Re: Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., WaltGCox@... wrote:


In a message dated 2/21/2009 8:54:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
brian@... writes:

Was this the article in the August 1993, February 1994, or July
1988, of
RMC? He also hade multiple articles in RMJ in the 90's. Thanks
Brian Carlson



I believe the same article was in the Oct 1991 edition of CN lines.
That is
the bible I have been using. Walt


And that would be what volume and number or issue number please??
CN Lines is not listed by year and month so that is not as helpful as
it otherwise might be.

Thanks, Don Valentine


Re: Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

WaltGCox@...
 

In a message dated 2/22/2009 11:01:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
riverman_vt@... writes:

And that would be what volume and number or issue number please??
CN Lines is not listed by year and month so that is not as helpful as
it otherwise might be.



Sorry, back then they were referred to both ways. It's Vol.3 No.4. There was
also a modeling follow up Vol.4 No.3 (July 1992). Walt
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis Storzek wrote

The Soo equipment diagram sheets show 45100-45498e as built in 1950
under GMS (General Mechanical Supt.) order number 6284, and
136800-137198e as built in 1951 under GMS 6285. However, I seem to
recall that there are lettering variations in both groups, so it would
seem that both were being built concurrently, perhaps in alternating
batches.
In Patrick Dorin's "The SOO LINE" there is a company photo of a car
right outside the paint shop with the close lettering, numbered 45398,
weighed 10-51. On page 129 of the same book there is a photo of a
short train heading away from the photographer; the last car, 137154
with the spread out lettering in the high position.

Model Railroading, April 1989: photo of SOO #136802 w/ $ herald.

So is it possible that 136800-137198 got all three variations as
they were being built?? The three being (1) $ herald (2) close to
door, high letters (3) further from door, high letters. And then
repaints got (4) away from door, lowered letters!

Tim O'Connor


Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

P.S. I have a bunch of Soo cars, including Front Range
kits from the Soo Historical Society. I think I've got
all the lettering variations. :-)
No one to my knowledge has ever done the cars with the lettering
high but spread out. Dennis

Dennis,
If you can get me a picture of one, I've got the decals! :-) But
you're right, my Des Plaines custom cars and the SLH&TS cars do
not represent that short lived lettering.
Tim O'Connor


Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Brian

During 1951 Soo started with $ herald, e.g.
(WC) 136800-137198 blt 1951 FOND DU LAC (200) [MORTON rb]

In 1951 Soo changed to bold SOO LINE close to the doors, e.g.
45100-45498 blt 1951 FOND DU LAC (200) [MORTON rb]
The Soo equipment diagram sheets show 45100-45498e as built in 1950
under GMS (General Mechanical Supt.) order number 6284, and
136800-137198e as built in 1951 under GMS 6285. However, I seem to
recall that there are lettering variations in both groups, so it would
seem that both were being built concurrently, perhaps in alternating
batches. In Wallace Abby's "The Little Jewel" there is a photo of at
least nine cars (the string goes out of the picture) being switched
out of the paint shop, all with the lettering close to the door, and
while the numbers can't be deciphered in the half tone, it is clear
that it is a mix of five and six digit numbers. The number series
relates to which company was paying for them and thus owned them;
remember, between 1909 and 12-31-60 the Wisconsin Central was still a
separate company being operated by the Soo. The cars with six digit
numbers are WC and should have a tiny WC stenciled in the upper left
corner of the sides.

In Patrick Dorin's "The SOO LINE" there is a company photo of a car
right outside the paint shop with the close lettering, numbered 45398,
weighed 10-51. On page 129 of the same book there is a photo of a
short train heading away from the photographer; the last car, 137154
with the spread out lettering in the high position.

I was also wrong about no new car production in 1952, the diagram book
claims 45500-45898e and 137200-137498e built that year under GMS 6342
and 6343.

By 1953 Soo changed to lettering further from doors, e.g.
(WC) 137200-137698 blt 1953 FOND DU LAC

All of the above series were even numbers only.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. I have a bunch of Soo cars, including Front Range
kits from the Soo Historical Society. I think I've got
all the lettering variations. :-)
No one to my knowledge has ever done the cars with the lettering high
but spread out.

Dennis


Re: Kadee minimum body box widths

Rich Yoder
 

My quick measurement shows a Kadee at 7/16
The standard Draft gear box that I sell are 5/16 and I'm sure that could
be narrower. If you can find one of my USRA Gondolas those were even
narrower.

Sincerely, Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
610-678-2834 after 6:00PM est until 10:00PM
www.richyodermodels.com

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
David Lehlbach
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 8:49 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Kadee minimum body box widths

Has anyone on list ever done math to determine the minimum Kadee coupler
box width needed to adhere to 18" radius curves yet allow use of Kadee
couplers?  I know there are a series of variables, but an enterprising
engineer could figure that out - Mr Storzek?

Variables I can think of:
- what car is coupled to
- length of car
- distance from Kadee pivot to truck center
- distance of Kadee shank

With the Kadee whisker couplers, box widths could become more narrow. 
Of course, the pivot point being so far back with long shank precludes
using significantly smaller boxes which is why Accurail designed a new
coupler box with shorter shank.  Another concept is the option of a
shorter shank Kadee whisker I suppose.

I noted Jon Cagle's Southern Car & Foundry Standard tank cars have nice
narrow boxes and use of Kadee whiskers.

Any mathmeticians out there?

David Lehlbach





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

While working on my 2 SOO cars, I noticed that Branchline located
the SOO
LINE Lettering in different locations on different cars. How many
different
locations was the large SOO LINE lettering applied on the post war
boxcars?
Perhaps more importantly how many of each location was applied?
137006 has
the SOO LINE high and tight to the door.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
Here's a brief chronology of Soo Line lettering on steel boxcars:

First 9'-4" IH cars built in 1936 through the 10'-5" IH cars built
during WWII, all cars built by Pullman-Standard: Oxide red sides and
roof, black ends, "$" herald with black background.

First cars built at North Fond du Lac in 1948 to 1950: oxide red sides
and roof, black ends "$" herald WITHOUT black background.

1951 was a transitional year. The first part of North Fond du Lac's
production was identical to the previous cars. Sometime during the
year the "boxcar block" lettering was introduced. Initial placement
was close to the door, tight to the top plate of the sides. The two
words were then spread out from the door for better visual balance,
still tight to the top plate. Someone must have then given some
thought to how they were going to paint the old low roof 1936 cars in
this scheme, and the lettering was lowered so it would line up with
the same lettering applied tight to the top plate on one of the 9'-4"
IH cars. This then became standard. No one has been able to come up
with an exact number of cars done in the two interim schemes,it
couldn't have been many, but because it was the "new look", a lot of
photos were taken of the cars with the lettering close to the door.
All these cars had oxide roofs and black ends.

There were no new cars built in 1952, and the black ends were dropped
with the production in 1953. Boxcar block lettering continued in the
lower, spread out position.

In in the late fifties the natural pigment oxide color was replaced
with a synthetic pigment color that was a darker brown. The boxcar
block lettering was also revised about 1958 or '59 (Too late for my
interests, so I don't have a reference handy). The revised lettering
had the center bar of the S exactly horizontal; the earlier S had it
at a slight angle. There were other differences, but this is the most
noticeable.

The first cars that were painted something other than oxide or freight
car red (PS-1s painted gray with black ends and red doors) came in
1961, and so are beyond the scope of this list.

Dennis


Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

Brian

During 1951 Soo started with $ herald, e.g.
(WC) 136800-137198 blt 1951 FOND DU LAC (200) [MORTON rb]

In 1951 Soo changed to bold SOO LINE close to the doors, e.g.
45100-45498 blt 1951 FOND DU LAC (200) [MORTON rb]

By 1953 Soo changed to lettering further from doors, e.g.
(WC) 137200-137698 blt 1953 FOND DU LAC

All of the above series were even numbers only.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. I have a bunch of Soo cars, including Front Range
kits from the Soo Historical Society. I think I've got
all the lettering variations. :-)

While working on my 2 SOO cars, I noticed that Branchline located the SOO
LINE Lettering in different locations on different cars. How many different
locations was the large SOO LINE lettering applied on the post war boxcars?
Perhaps more importantly how many of each location was applied? 137006 has
the SOO LINE high and tight to the door.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Feb 21, 2009, at 6:52 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

While working on my 2 SOO cars, I noticed that Branchline located the
SOO
LINE Lettering in different locations on different cars. How many
different
locations was the large SOO LINE lettering applied on the post war
boxcars?
Perhaps more importantly how many of each location was applied?
137006 has
the SOO LINE high and tight to the door.
Brian,
Perhaps Bill Schneider will chime in on this question. I recall
assisting Bill by sending to him a variety of photos plus some other
references to photos in various books and magazines.

Bill will probably tell you that no other box car in Branchline's
product line was more challenging than the Soo Line's postwar AAR box
cars. Some had black ends, others not. There were at least three
variations on the lettering including the original dollar-sign railroad
emblem, then at least two variations on the billboard SOO LINE stencils
with some cars having SOO LINE close to the doors and others more
widely spaced. The latter version appears to be most common.

There's a neat shot of one of these cars on page 52 of the Morning Sun
book Trackside Around St. Louis. The car is upright, but had come
disengaged from the train and is shown on the ground in the middle of a
street near a railroad overpass. This car had the SOO LINE billboard
stencils closely spaced next to the door. The car had black ends and
possibly a black roof. Unfortunately I cannot make out the car number,
but the first 3 digits were 137, which indicates the car was built in
either 1951 or 1953 given the placards were in the high position. Soo
Line box cars built in 1954 had their placards in the low position. The
photo was taken Oct. 15, 1954.

I have a number of photos of cars that I will describe for your
potential use:
45450, new 11-51, wide spacing
46034 and 45056, new 7-54, wide spacing
136802, built 1951 (cannot read date stencils), reweighed 6-58, $ sign
emblem
137190, new 11-51, wide spacing
137272, new 6-53, wide spacing
136502, built 10-49, apparently repainted and reweighed 2-52, wide
spacing (appears to have black ends)

From all appearances the earliest Soo LIne postwar AAR box cars built
in 1949 and the first part of the order built in 1951 originally had
the $ sign emblem. The switch to the billboard SOO LINE stencils
apparently occurred sometime during the 1951 production run.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Guys: Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me but it seems to me
Branchline said they had the big SOO LINE in three different places. I
used to work in a hobby store and I was puzzled why there were three
different product numbers for what looked like the same car. There was
wide and narrow spacing and also I think there was a lower spacing....
Actually I just checked the Branchline site and they said they have
four different spacings. What do you say, SOO fans?

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

Ed Hawkins
 

On Feb 21, 2009, at 6:52 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

While working on my 2 SOO cars, I noticed that Branchline located the
SOO
LINE Lettering in different locations on different cars. How many
different
locations was the large SOO LINE lettering applied on the post war
boxcars?
Perhaps more importantly how many of each location was applied?
137006 has
the SOO LINE high and tight to the door.
Brian,
Perhaps Bill Schneider will chime in on this question. I recall
assisting Bill by sending to him a variety of photos plus some other
references to photos in various books and magazines.

Bill will probably tell you that no other box car in Branchline's
product line was more challenging than the Soo Line's postwar AAR box
cars. Some had black ends, others not. There were at least three
variations on the lettering including the original dollar-sign railroad
emblem, then at least two variations on the billboard SOO LINE stencils
with some cars having SOO LINE close to the doors and others more
widely spaced. The latter version appears to be most common.

There's a neat shot of one of these cars on page 52 of the Morning Sun
book Trackside Around St. Louis. The car is upright, but had come
disengaged from the train and is shown on the ground in the middle of a
street near a railroad overpass. This car had the SOO LINE billboard
stencils closely spaced next to the door. The car had black ends and
possibly a black roof. Unfortunately I cannot make out the car number,
but the first 3 digits were 137, which indicates the car was built in
either 1951 or 1953 given the placards were in the high position. Soo
Line box cars built in 1954 had their placards in the low position. The
photo was taken Oct. 15, 1954.

I have a number of photos of cars that I will describe for your
potential use:
45450, new 11-51, wide spacing
46034 and 45056, new 7-54, wide spacing
136802, built 1951 (cannot read date stencils), reweighed 6-58, $ sign
emblem
137190, new 11-51, wide spacing
137272, new 6-53, wide spacing
136502, built 10-49, apparently repainted and reweighed 2-52, wide
spacing (appears to have black ends)

From all appearances the earliest Soo LIne postwar AAR box cars built
in 1949 and the first part of the order built in 1951 originally had
the $ sign emblem. The switch to the billboard SOO LINE stencils
apparently occurred sometime during the 1951 production run.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Way back in 2007 Pierre Oliver said:
I have need of dozens of these cars in all their variants and will
continue to create them using the aftermarket parts and details as
described by Stafford Swain in RMC all those years ago now. It will
cost about the same and I'll the fun of building the cars. And I get
to use the lovely decal sets from Black Cat Publishing.
I did a search on the MR Train Index site and came up with 65 hits for
Stafford. I need some help narrowing down the back issue(s) I need to find.
Was this the article in the August 1993, February 1994, or July 1988, of
RMC? He also hade multiple articles in RMJ in the 90's. Thanks
Brian Carlson


TLT Canadian Boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

While at a show today I took the opportunity to look over the True Line
Trains Canadian Built boxcars. I recall looking at them when they first came
out and the ladders were molded very far from the ends. The cars I saw today
seemed to have the ladders located at the same locations as the adjacent
intermountain, Red Caboose boxcars. Now I know comparing models to models is
not the best approach. However it appears TLT may have retooled the car to
be more prototypical. Does anyone know if these cars were retooled, or were
my eyes deceiving me?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Thanks Tony: I don't think Branchline is wrong with any of the placements.
I'm more curios to find out if either of the cars I have 137006, and 136502
are one-off experimental locations?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Brian Carlson wrote:
While working on my 2 SOO cars, I noticed that Branchline located the SOO LINE lettering in different locations on different cars. How many different locations was the large SOO LINE lettering applied on the post war boxcars? Perhaps more importantly how many of each location was applied? 137006 has the SOO LINE high and tight to the door.
Hopefully a Soo expert will reply, but I recollect reading an article about the Soo box cars awhile back, which stated that the location of the large SOO lettering did vary from era to era. So the Branchline cars are probably not automatically wrong, but I don't know the era of each style.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: SOO postwar AAR Boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

While working on my 2 SOO cars, I noticed that Branchline located the SOO
LINE Lettering in different locations on different cars. How many different
locations was the large SOO LINE lettering applied on the post war boxcars?
Perhaps more importantly how many of each location was applied? 137006 has
the SOO LINE high and tight to the door.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Patents [Was:More on B&O Slack Adjuster.]

Frank Greene
 

np328 wrote:
I would be careful making any blanket statements on this subject. I am at work so cannot quote some sources directly, however have read, I believe, in either the NP books, Classic Steam Era or Supersteam Era, mention is made of a gentleman who while employed in the Northern Pacific shops, invented the "Cyclone Front End Device". Looking from the top down, the device was a long baffle that swirled the flue gases around in a closing spiral not unlike water going down a drain. This was enough to break up or extinguish greatly any burning cinders. The person who invented this device became rather well off from doing so, (while in the employment of the railroad). I have also heard the same, told first person by Jack Christensen, former Road Forman of Engineers on the NP. Of course these are different eras and companies, hence my opening sentence. James Dick - St. Paul, MN

Staying in the steam era (well, for RRs that were not early implementers, like the Southern Railway), the story is told in "Brosnan, The Railroads' Messiah" that Bill Brosnan, during the years he was a Southern Railway General Manager and Operations VP, patented several track and freight car maintenance inventions. He was an engineering graduate of GA Tech, so was certainly qualified to design these machines, but I believe he was the "idea man" who sketched out a concept and others did the actual development. The resulting designs were licensed to railroad equipment suppliers, such as Railway Maintenance Corporation, and Brosnan received royalties for the equipment sold to other RRs. The royalties were a tidy supplement to his RR compensation.

--

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: MP Eagle Merchandise colors

Ed Hawkins
 

On Feb 21, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Frank Fertitta wrote:

Did these cars run in passenger trains or second class freight? Would
they usually be found on the house track of the local depot or at the
MP freight house? Did they run singly or would you be apt to see
several in a train? As brightly painted as they were I don't remember
ever seeing one.
Frank,
Eagle Merchandise Service (XME) box cars were for less-than-carload
freight service. They were often found on house tracks at a local depot
to be loaded or unloaded, such as the color photo at Topeka, Kansas,
shown in RP CYC Vol. 14. They were commonly run in blocks of 3 or more
cars, as exemplified in wheel reports shown and illustrated in the
recently published Fall-Winter 2008 edition of The Eagle
(www.mopac.org). The cars had stencils in the upper left corner of the
sides stating they were to be kept on line. That's not to say they
didn't get off line, but prior to the late 1950s it wasn't a common
occurrence. So if you didn't happen to see them and were looking off
line, that's the reason you don't recall seeing them. The Eagle
Merchandise Service less-than-carload service was terminated in 1961,
and the cars were then free to roam. By this time the cars weren't
looking so bright and cheerful.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

WaltGCox@...
 

In a message dated 2/21/2009 8:54:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
brian@... writes:

Was this the article in the August 1993, February 1994, or July 1988, of
RMC? He also hade multiple articles in RMJ in the 90's. Thanks
Brian Carlson



I believe the same article was in the Oct 1991 edition of CN lines. That is
the bible I have been using. Walt
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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Re: MP Eagle Merchandise colors

sunbeam13n14
 

Ed -
 
Did these cars run in passenger trains or second class freight? Would they usually be found on the house track of the local depot or at the MP freight house? Did they run singly or would you be apt to see several in a train? As brightly painted as they were I don't remember ever seeing one.
 
Thanks
Frank

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] MP Eagle Merchandise colors
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 9:02 PM







On Feb 20, 2009, at 2:51 PM, Jim and Lisa Hayes wrote:

OK. Now I'm getting confused by nomenclature. Ed, rereading your
article
in RPC 14, the sides are blue with a gray center band. In the
pictures,
that center band is a different color than the ends. Are the 'gray'
center bands DPH964 Missouri Pacific Cream and the ends DPH965
Missouri
Pacific Gray? And while I'm talking to the expert, is reefer yellow an
OK color for the upper & lower portions of the door?
Jim,
The gray band extends completely across the car including the door. The
end is the same gray as used on the sides. Some of these cars received
blue ends. The yellow (also referred to as cream) is on the door that
interrupts the blue bands on the sides.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

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