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Re: coke -- a consumer product in 1950?

Jim Sabol
 

Regarding the photo of that Kopper''s coke distributing yard, would someone please identify the construction on the end of the hopper bin building?. There's clearly a rail hopper car delivering coke off to the right, presumably dumping into an in-ground receptacle that feeds the inclined bucket delivery belt up to the top of the hopper bins. But what's that other scaffolding and business also visible on the right end of the structure?


Re: tank car question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 26, 2009, at 4:26 AM, Ned Carey wrote:
what is the odd device on the end of this tank car?
http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=eb8dfb80ba8b6c72_large

Tim O'Connor






As Frank Fertitta observed, it's some sort of unusually large
cleanout cover with some sort of small crane arrangement to support
it when unbolted from the tank end. What Carnegie-Illinois Steel
might have been carrying in the cars that required a cleanout hole
that large I can't imagine, but it's big enough to admit a workman.
Frank's wrong in his speculation that the car was a high pressure
tank car of some sort, however, as it was listed in the ORERs as AAR
class TM, not TP. CISX 2774 was one of ten cars numbered 2772-2781
which were of 12,650 gal. capacity, unusually large for that day
(Note that the tank is visibly bigger than that on the 10,000 gal.
GATX car to the left). These ten cars were used to carry a non-
regulatory commodity, as is evident both from the stenciling on the
tank and the absence of safety valves - they had only frangible disk
vents. I'd be interested to learn from someone familiar with the
process of producing steel (Tony?) what that commodity might have
been. At any rate, They were AC&F Type 21s built in early the 1920s,
and the tank cleanouts were probably added later. The dome platforms
were homemade and were certainly added later.

Ned then observes:

It confirms what most on this list already know
a.. There was quite a variety of tank cars in size shape a detail.
b.. Most tank cars were plain black
c.. Three compartment cars are smaller, common models like athearn
are way to large. Note the three compartment car in the upper right
of the photo. It is noticeably smaller that nearby cars. I don't
recall seeing a multi compartment car next to other tank cars and
the size difference is obvious by comparison. (perhaps also a
converted car as the end domes are smaller than the middle dome.)









All true. The three compartment car appears to have been a 6,000 gal
single compartment car converted to three compartments. Such
conversions were fairly common (more often, though, on 8,000 gal.
cars), especially on GATX cars. 6 K gal. three compartment cars are
among the more obvious car types that need to be modeled in HO scale
(Micro-Trains has recent produced one in N scale). And Ned is, of
course, right that the old Athearn/AHM models are so grotesquely
oversize that they can't even be used as reasonable stand-ins for any
prototype cars.

What is the age of the photo?




Ca. 1942. Thee are a couple of GATX cars in the photo with features
(rod tank tie-downs instead of straps, full-circle dome handrails,
that weren't adopted earlier than late 1941), and all of the CISX
tank cars were gone from the ORERs by mid-1943.

a.. I see no radial course cars
b.. I see many cars that appear welded with no obvious rivet lines





There's one radial-course car way off in the distance, but certainly
they're largely absent from this photo. On the other hand, none of
the cars that are close enough for details to be made out appear to
be welded (and I've done some fiddling in Photoshop to bring up the
details as much as possible).
Interesting details
a.. The platforms on the full platform cars seem heavy. Maybe the
platforms onsome of the plastic models aren't so crude after all.
b.. My perception (Which perhaps comes from the model world) is
that full platform cars were much more common on insulated cars.
Yet I see a high percentage on non insulated cars in this photo.











Well, as noted earlier, the platforms on the cars close to the camera
were homemade, and very crude, additions. Dome platforms supplied by
the tank car builders were much more delicate.

c.. Seeing a person in close proximity to the manway, I am
surprised how small the manways were. It must have been a squeeze
to get into a car.




Yup. Fat guys would have had difficulty getting in and - worse-
getting out.

d.. On the first track to the left, take note of the second car
that has a dome showing. It has a circular grab all the way around
the dome. I haven't noticed this before and yet it is on at least a
few cars in the photo.






Standard GATC practice starting ca. 1941 but not generally adopted by
AC&F, the only other significant tank car mfr. by that date. Most of
the non-CISX cars I can identify in the photo are GATC built and
probably GATC owned. It appears that CISX had some sort of leasing/
maintenance arrangement with GATC, because in the 1930s they leased
cars from Pennsylvania-Conley, a wholly owned GATC subsidiary, and
that would account for the preponderance of GATC cars in the photo.

e.. The car to the upper right of the diesel cab has lateral
running boards around the dome. I have seen this before and
probably needs to be modeled more frequently. I can't think of a
single model available that has this. Would this have been an
option tank car builders offered for standard designs or would this
have been a trademark of a particular builder or tank car owner?










Tank car builder's may have provided those as an option, though I
can't recall seeing a builder's photo that shows them. However,
owners often added them on cars in assigned service where elevated
loading and/or unloading facilities weren't available. At any rate,
adding them on a model is very simple, if you're modeling a prototype
that had them.
f.. Perhaps most interesting of all is again the second car (with a
dome showing, 3rd car if you include the partial car in front) in
the left most row ahs an odd arrangement of rivet lines. Could this
be a 5 course car?





Yes, an arrangement unique, AFAIK, to GATC cars built in the early
war years, perhaps because larger pieces of steel weren't available.
There was a single bottom sheet, two side sheets, and two top sheets
with a rivet seam down the center as on three horizontal course cars.

Some other observations, for what they're worth.

The car whose tank end shows at the bottom of the photo was either a
Standard Tank Car Co. or Pennsylvania Tank Car Co. product, as
evidenced by the tank band location (PTC tanks were made by STC; PTC,
whose plant was next door to STC's, made only their own underframes
and smaller components like ladders and dome walkways). The next car
in the string at the left of the photo was GATX 18285, a 10K gal. car
built in 1926-'27.

All in all, as Ned says, a very interesting photo, though it would be
a mistake to over-generalize from it about tank cars as a whole.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: nice freight yard details

Tim O'Connor
 

I'll bet not too many layouts have a guy sitting on
a chair next to the yard throat, ready to throw that
switch...

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=63aa8efb7477cb32_large

It's a 1942 view of an SP yard -- note the three PRR
box cars on the far track, and the 50' single sheathed
box car.
It is a "slip-switch" he's manually operating. Not the usual
arrangement for a yard throat.
A nice find Tim.
Bob Witt

Yes, a double-slip. There were two of them at the throat of
the Taylor Yard classification bowl. There are several shots
of the yard in the Life collection.

Tim O'Connor


ICC daytime headlight requirement

Bill McCoy
 

I know this is out of scope but can any suggest a resource where I can
find when the ICC required daytime headlight illumination. I think it
was between 1954 and 1956.

Thaks,

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I'm with you Steve. I've used a sewing machine foot pedal for more than 20 years. I can control the RPM from about 5 on up.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

Steve Sandifer wrote:

A sewing machine foot pedal on a fixed speed dremel mounted in the drill press works well to drill holes in plastic or resin steam era freight cars.


coke

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Al Campbell wrote:

Hello Don and others. I very much remember as a child growing up in
Chelsea
MA in the late 40's and early 50's we would occasionally use coke.
Money
usually was a little tight at the time but we would use coke
sometimes because the
heat content was higher than coal. Coke was a little more
expensive than
coal
More expensive than bituminous coal or anthracite?

Any idea where the coke was made?

Where there regions where dealers sold both soft or hard coal for
home heating? I know industrial customers generally used soft coal in
areas where homeowners used anthracite.

Ed


Re: tank car question

mopacfirst
 

In the pressure vessel business, that thing that supports the manway
flange would be called a 'davit'. Typically it's specified for any
flanges that are too heavy for one man to handle, which often means
100 lb or more.

Manway flanges were once as small as 16" or 18" nominal size, now are
normally 24", but workers are bigger now.

Ron Merrick


--- In STMFC@..., William Keene <wakeene@...> wrote:

Tim,

That is an ALCO switcher...oh... you mean that round thingy...
looks
like a bolted flange for a clean out hatch. Note that it has a
support
structure for when it is in the open position. Not sure what would
be
the load or why such a clean out procedure would be required.
Very
interesting none the less.

Cheers,
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, Ca


On Feb 25, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

what is the odd device on the end of this tank car?
http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=eb8dfb80ba8b6c72_large

Tim O'Connor


ADMIN: Multiple messages

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Over the last week I have received multiple copies of a few Email messages coming through my server Earthlink. The messages all come from Yahoo Groups and all but one is a member of the STMFC. Earthlink is researching the source code of the messages in order to determine the cause. In support of that, I would like to ask if anyone else has received multiple messages. If so, please let me know but OFF GROUP at:

brockm@....

Thanks.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "pierreoliver2003" <pierre.oliver@>
wrote:

Jeff,
I'm going to jump in here and mention that for all of the holes I
drill in resin , I use a Dremel Mini-Mite. A battery powered moto-
tool.
If you're careful and use the right feed rate and speed you can also
successfully use this tool for styrene as well.
Drilling 36 holes becomes a job of mere minutes.
Pierre Oliver
Interesting. My son uses a similar technique. He regulates the speed
by choosing batteries already run down by the appropriate amount.
Gene Green
Gene: I had a friend in the eighties who would regulate the speed of
his Dremel by wiring light bulb sockets in series with the tool. By
screwing in different sized bulbs he could get different speeds. Yes I
know that's doing it the hard way but that was the sort of fellow he was.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


Re: nice freight yard details

rwitt_2000
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I'll bet not too many layouts have a guy sitting on
a chair next to the yard throat, ready to throw that
switch...

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=63aa8efb7477cb32_large

It's a 1942 view of an SP yard -- note the three PRR
box cars on the far track, and the 50' single sheathed
box car.

Tim O'Connor

It is a "slip-switch" he's manually operating. Not the usual
arrangement for a yard throat.

A nice find Tim.

Bob Witt


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

A sewing machine foot pedal on a fixed speed dremel mounted in the drill press works well to drill holes in plastic or resin steam era freight cars.

----------------------------------------------------------------
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417
Personal: http://www.geocities.com/stevesandifer2000/index
Church: http://www.swcentral.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Green
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 2:58 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Single-sheathed box cars


--- In STMFC@..., "pierreoliver2003" <pierre.oliver@...>
wrote:
>
> Jeff,
> I'm going to jump in here and mention that for all of the holes I
> drill in resin , I use a Dremel Mini-Mite. A battery powered moto-
tool.
> If you're careful and use the right feed rate and speed you can also
> successfully use this tool for styrene as well.
> Drilling 36 holes becomes a job of mere minutes.
> Pierre Oliver

Interesting. My son uses a similar technique. He regulates the speed
by choosing batteries already run down by the appropriate amount.
Gene Green


Re: MWR Mather box car under wires

Tim O'Connor
 

So now we know they made it to the east coast in 1950! :-)
http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=872ee5b6fc6c5a02_large
At least to the New Haven, judging by the catenary support. But
where on the NH and what is the neat 50 ft., single door car with
the Murphy ends behind the support?
Regards, Don Valentine

Great Northern, Westerfield kit.


Re: coke

WaltGCox@...
 

In a message dated 2/26/2009 8:09:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ed_mines@... writes:

<Where there regions where dealers sold both soft or hard coal for
home heating? I know industrial customers generally used soft coal in
areas where homeowners used anthracite.>

I would very much doubt it. I remember bringing home a bag of bituminous
coal from the steam era railroad track in my neighborhood. My mom only used a
little of it and I don't think I have ever seen or smelled such a noxious cloud
of smoke as we had in our kitchen that day. Walt
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)


Re: coke -- a consumer product in 1950?

Tim O'Connor
 

Kurt

Aha! That was during the Great Ice Storm of 2008, when
I lost my internet connection for 26 days... so I missed
out when this was discussed. Sorry about that.

Tim O'Connor

At 2/26/2009 08:47 AM Thursday, you wrote:
See message 78111 and subsequent.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/78111
KL


Re: Walthers 40' AAR Steel Box

David North <davenorth@...>
 

Dave,
You didn't say if your kit was a one-piece plastic cast body with molded
on ladders, etc. Do the side sills stick out slightly from the body
panels? If so, I suspect what you have is the Walthers reissue of an old
Train Miniature car from about 20 years ago. Most of these cars are
pretty hokey by today's standards.
Garth G. Groff



Sounds like the ex-Train Miniature x29/ARA car. If so, it's going to be
a pretty low height car and I'm not sure correct as that number equates
to a 10'6" IH car in my 1950 ORER
Jerry Glow





Yep, that sounds like it guys. Looks like I'll be letting it go via ebay.

It is pretty hokey but I was prepared to put some work in if basically
correct.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

Dave


Re: Michigan Central door and a half DS boxcars

sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., " Westerfield" <westerfield@...> wrote:

Stephan - My decal set 7902 is the exact lettering for the car - I
issued a new version of the kit several years ago. See the decal
section of www.westerfield.biz. - Al Westerfield
----- Original Message -----
From: sparachuk
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:05 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Michigan Central door and a half DS boxcars

Al: Thanks. I am using some decals I got with Westerfield cars I
already have, sort of a clean out the spare decal box project.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


Re: gondola question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 26, 2009, at 3:25 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
The C&O and Clinchfield are the only two I can think of that had
those ends.
There were others with extended height ends, such as NYC and P&LE
but they
were not peaked.





N&W also had a bunch, both corrugated and Dreadnaught.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: tank car question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 26, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Andy Carlson wrote:
Notice that the 2 CISX cars are 4 course tank cars. Maybe Bob Gould
should have done this car.




It was Bill, not Bob, and yes, he should have. But then, it's an
early AC&F Type 21, which is the car that Life-Like modeled very well.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: tank car question

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Ned Carey" <nedspam@...> commented:
c.. Seeing a person in close proximity to the manway, I am
surprised how small the manways were. It must have been a squeeze to
get into a car.



In the early '80s I worked for small specialy chemical manfacturer
Kay-Fries in Stony Point, NY.

One night I was surprised to see welding arc light coming out the top
of a reactor with a flanged opening much smaller than the one at the
end of the tank car. The man inside turned out to the oldest (and
smallest) man in the shop.

It must have been scary going into that tank car for the first time.

I'm surprised more tank cars didn't have clean out hatches.

I think it was common for men to go into covered hoppers.

Ed


Re: coke -- a consumer product in 1950?

Bill Darnaby
 

FWIW, on page 10 of Morning Sun's CNW Vol 1 is a very neat 1945 photo that shows an all purpose fuel dealer in the background advertising coke.

Bill Darnaby

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