Date   

Pix of early Virginian steel gons

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Looking for a good side or near-side view builder's picture of the pre-WW1 Virginian 55-ton FB steel gons in either the VGN 15000, VGN 16000, or VGN 17000 series.

Al Kresse


Re: Wabash Boxcar in Atlanta, IL

Ray Breyer
 

Hi guys,

What a super boxcar restoration and display but a double door
auto car for shipping grain? Was this a "common practice"?
Don Valentine
In a word, no. Grain doors were sized to fit the standard 6'
boxcar door opening in the steam era. Occasionally, 7 and 8
foot door boxcars may have been pressed into service. This
was done only as a last resort, because grain doors, like
boxcars, were always in short supply during the harvest rush.
Robert D. Heninger
Thanks very much, Bob. That's about what I expected.
Don Valentine


OK, not so fast. I just quickly went through my photo stash, and almost immediately found two photos of double door cars spotted at grain elevators. One's from the Tacoma Public Library collection, and shows an old C&O single sheathed, double door car, with both all-wood doors open, spotted under an elevator's loading lean-to. The second is from the Life collection, and shows a Pennsy steel double door car spotted at a large elevator/mill complex.

I can think of at least four reasons why a "double door" box could be spotted at an elevator:

1) The car was misdelivered. Yard crews, trainmen, and agents aren't gods, and they certainly didn't get things right all the time, especially in the pre-computer era. Show me someone who says railroads didn't regularly screw up car deliveries, and I'll show you someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

2) The car was carrying something, or was being loaded with something, other than bulk grain. Is the "elevator" really a mill? If so, a double door car could be loaded with bagged grain and feed. Is the small town elevator also a hardware store, tractor sales point, lumberyard and local team track? If so, that double door car could be delivering just about anything to "the elevator" from lube oil to hatched chicks.

3) Is that "double door" boxcar REALLY a "double door" boxcar? Or has one door been sealed 14 years ago, making it into a plain box which is now suitable for grain loading? This is pretty common, so you may not really be seeing what you think you're seeing. The Wabash sealed a lot of those double door cars like the one in Atlanta, so that car's completely appropriate for the display. Chet French has provided me with Wabash car delivery lists to the Central Soya mill in Gibson City, IL, and there are a couple of these sealed door cars in the mix.

4) A conversation as overheard in Green Bay, Wisconsin, circa 1944: "Welcome to the grain rush. We're short of cars, so that elevator in Sturgis is getting anything we can find. What's that? We've a single sheathed with double doors on hand? Good; someone send that new kid from the car department over there with a 4x4, a bunch of 2x4s and some nails; we'll fix the doors so the car can hold grain."
(OK, this is a made up conversation, but you get the point. And some early double sheathed double door wagon cars had removable vertical posts between the doors; I wouldn't be surprised to see a few of these sorts of cars on the roster of granger roads)


The 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s are NOT the 2000s. Things were hugely different 50 to 100 years ago, and railroads did things intuitively back then that are NOT intuitive today. Remember, "Sunday chicken dinner" was a big deal because chickens weren't eaten all that often (too expensive and valuable as egg makers). Today, chicken is the most eaten meat in America. It's this sort of difference in thinking that can make a double door boxcar a natural (though probably not common) thing to see at a local elevator.

Regards,

Ray Breyer


Re: DL&W 18000 series hoppers

MDelvec952
 

Hi Bud,

The DL&W general arrangement drawings for these show 47' 0 3/4" over the buffers, while the top of the car from the ends of the running boards was 47' 6 3/4".

The inside length is 41' 0 3/4", which might be where the two numbers came from in your source -- inside versus outside length.

The 18020-99 had Barber S2A trucks; the first 20 had a variety of side frame drawings that I'd have to look up.

Running boards were Apex.

Always wondered if any other roads had this car ....Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 04/05/09 11:33:26 Eastern Daylight Time, BlackDiamondRR@... writes:
Hello,
I am looking for info, or plans for the Lackawanna RR 18000-18999 series covered hoppers blt in Oct '56. I have conflicting information on the length, one source says 41' another 47'. Any help?
Thanks,
Bud Rindfleisch


Re: Santa Fe TOFC Flats

charles slater
 

Joe to answer your question on the early "Super C" trains a good book reference is Joe McMillan's "Route Of The Warbonnets" as there are many pictures of that train from the test runs to the end of that service.

In 1968 the only Santa Fe TOFC cars painted white were the 30 Mark 5 Flexi-Van cars in the Ft-65 class built in Jan 1968, and there are photos of them running in the "Super C" train. All other Santa Fe TOFC cars such as the Ft-L, M, N, T, W, 5, 11, 16, 23, 26, 38 and 46 class cars were painted mineral brown with white lettering in the late 1960's.

TOFC cars painted white did not reappear until the Ft-92 class "six pack" car was built in May 1977 at the Topeks shops. It was painted white with dark blue lettering and did run on the back of the Super C (198 and 891 train) just ahead of the caboose for testng. That car was later rebuilt into a 10-Pack car at Topeka in April 1978 by adding four more center units.

The TOFC cars painted white in the 1990's ment that they were not equipped with collapsible trailer hitches that would drop down for loading and could only be loaded by lifting the trailers on or off.

In the late 1960's all TOFC cars were loaded "circus style" and the trailers were driven on and off the flat cars.

Charlie Slater

Bakersfield, Ca.



To: STMFC@...
From: toyman@...
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 21:47:23 -0700
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe TOFC Flats





Does anybody have an ORER for 1968 that could look up some car number ranges
for me, please. I am modeling the Santa Fe Inaugural Super C and have seven
unpainted 89' TOFC flats. I know they were painted white. But I don't have
access to an ORER that old.

Thanks for any help that you can provide.

Joe Melhorn
Orangevale, CA









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Re: Rebuilt BX-13s, was Need information about several freight cars, circa Nov 1955-Sept 1957

paulbizier <pa.bizier@...>
 

Richard - any chance I can get those pictures as well? IIRC, the old Mainline Modeler article on the rebuilds didn't mention any with diagonsl psnel roofs...

Paul

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Apr 4, 2009, at 8:14 AM, MDelvec952 wrote:
In a message dated 04/03/09 13:44:49 Eastern Daylight Time,
rhendrickson@... writes:
Andy's post beat me to the draw here, but I will add that ATSF 32527,
though it was indeed a Bx-13 class box car, wasn't single sheathed by
the late 1950s. In the early 1950s, all of the surviving Bx-13s were
rebuilt with AAR-design all steel bodies and diagonal panel roofs,
using their original ends, underframes and trucks. They were then
renumbered into the 32500-33484 series.










Mike, I'll send you a couple of scans off-list.

Richard Hendrickson





Re: Ramblings

mike turner <yardcoolieyahoo@...>
 

I use colored shrink tubing. There are lots of colors available.

Mike Turner
Simpsonville, SC 29681


Re: MILW double-sheathed box cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

According to the Milwaukee's 1937 freight car diagram book, 500000-502954, built 1913, and 92482-93480, built 1912. Let me know if you'd like me to email you a copy of the diagram.
Thanks, I'd appreciate that. I know the dimensions from the ORER but can use the additional info of a diagram.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Ramblings

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Like Ray, I also have a small tackle box with a subset of tools for travelling. I found it easier to just buy anoter X-Acto, bottle of glue, tweezers, and so on than to keep swapping them back and forth.

For the model room I got an old serving cart from a second-hand store for the tools and paints. I made a dust cover from plastic sheet for when I'm not modeling, and can roll it under the table to save space. The big advantage is that it can be placed beside me, leaving the table free.

KL


Re: Ramblings

Ray Breyer
 

Sitting at my work bench working on freight cars I am thinking
about several things that impede my progress: tools all silver
and mostly round. I thought how nice it would be if tools were
color coded rather than spending precious time locating the right
xacto or screw driver. Then I thought of the many times round
tools rolled off the work bench causing me to spend more time
looking for them on the floor. Has anyone solved the problem of
rolling tools or time spent searching in a sea of silver for a
specific tool?
Armand Premo

Hi Armand,

My OCD doesn't actually like color-coded tools, since they then get mixed up too randomly and the paint gets worn and yucky-looking (VBG!)

I've found over the years that I rely on about four hand tool for 70% of my modeling, and about another dozen for another 25%, rarely dragging out the exotics and only using the powered tools (Dremel, soldering equipment, etc) when I have the opportunity and time to work on metal steam. Since my primary tool list is so small I keep a simple Plano tacklebox insert as my "tool box". Something like this:
http://www.planomolding.com/images/2363020a.jpg
It's simple, latchable, easily transported, and has enough slots in it to have one for files, pliers, "sharps", drills, etc. In fact, since I've moved four times in the past twelve years I've basically taught myself to "portable-ize" ALL of my hobby supplies, and I may have the world's largest collection of Plano boxes.

The nicest thing about keeping things organized like this is that it's really easy to pick up and bring a small prohect with me if I'm on the road, or if it's an especially nice day and I feel like working on the deck.

Regards,

Ray Breyer


Re: Wabash Boxcar in Atlanta, IL

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "gn3397" <heninger@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Donald B. Valentine" <riverman_vt@> wrote:

What a super boxcar restoration and display but a double door auto car for shipping grain???? Was this a "common practice"??

Don Valentine
Mr. Valentine,
In a word, no. Grain doors were sized to fit the standard 6' boxcar door opening in the steam era. Occasionally, 7 and 8 foot door boxcars may have been pressed into service, but this required the use of more than one grain door per side, both to cover the door opening and reinforce the "splice" in the doors to prevent failure of the grain door and subsequent loss of lading. This was done only as a last resort, because grain doors, like boxcars, were always in short supply during the harvest rush.

Late in the steam era, the GN (and several other roads) built and bought several series of 40' and 50' plug/sliding door boxcars that had 6' sliding doors so that they could be coopered if needed for grain service.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, IA
Thanks very much, Bob. That's about what I expected. I'm reasonably familiar with both Signode grain doors and, to a lesser extent, the wooden ones. But it is still good to see the Rock Island automobile car so well taken care of though it is unfortunate that the museum could find a more appropriate car, even if it were an older steel one.

Thanks again,
Don Valentine


Re: Ramblings

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Don't know about Micro-Mark without checking our their catalog but I have used these same triangular rubber pieces on pencils, Xacto knives, dental picks, scribers and and other tools for some years.
I believe they have been available in blue, red, yellow and, possibly, green. Mine were all purchased at Staples and were very inexpensive. They should solve both the color coding and tool
rolling issues that Armand has written about.

Don Valentine

--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

Micro-Mark (I think, but there are certainly others) sells a rubberish,
triangular section tube that fits over the No. 1 handle and keeps it from
rolling. I found a small rubberish protective cap for something the fit
loosely on the end of the handle. I jammed a small piece of sprue or rod or
something in there parallel to the handle axis that both locks it all solid
and keeps it from rolling.
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Premo

Sitting at my work bench working on freight cars I am thinking about several
things that impede my progress:tools all silver and mostly round.I thought
how nice it would be if tools were color coded rather than spending precious
time locating the right xacto or screw driver.Then I thought of the many
times round tools rolled off the work bench causing me to spend more time
looking for them on the floor.Has anyone solved the problem of rolling tools
or time spent searching in a sea of silver for a specific tool? Am I alone
dealing with these frustrations? <G>Armand Premo


Re: DL&W 18000 series hoppers

Ed Hawkins
 

On Apr 5, 2009, at 10:32 AM, bud9351 wrote:

Hello,
I am looking for info, or plans for the Lackawanna RR 18000-18999
series covered hoppers blt in Oct '56. I have conflicting information
on the length, one source says 41' another 47'. Any help?
Thanks,
Bud Rindfleisch
Bud,
I'm presuming you are looking for the cars in series 18000-18099, 100
cars built by AC&F lot no. 4698. The reason you are finding two length
dimensions is because the inside length is specified as 41' and outside
length as 47'-1".

The original set of drawings (about a dozen or so) are at the Museum of
Transportation in St. Louis, Mo. These include a general arrangement,
brake arrangement, and more detailed drawings of various steel parts or
assemblies. Contact me off list if you are interested in obtaining
copies.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Ramblings

krlpeters
 

While not sure about heat-shrink tubing, electrical tape is sold in colors, can be found in any good hardware store. 
 
As for the triangler shaped sleeves, at one time office supply stores sold a similar product for pencils.
 
Karl Peters


Testing

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Sorry, just passing through, to see if I get it back . . .

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!







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Re: Ramblings

armprem
 

Gee it's great to belong to such an august group.I am glad I am not out there all alone.Thanks for all your help gang.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 12:09 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Ramblings


I built a workbench specifically for model building. It has a plywood top and three side boards of 1" x 3" to catch those parts that seem to roll off the bench and disappear into never-never land. Another piece of 1" x 3" is at the back of the workbench. It is drilled with 1/4" and 1/2" holes to hold all of those round tools upright.



Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "A. Premo" <armprem@...> wrote:

Sitting at my work bench working on freight cars I am thinking about several
things that impede my progress:tools all silver and mostly round.I thought
how nice it would be if tools were color coded rather than spending precious
time locating the right xacto or screw driver.Then I thought of the many
times round tools rolled off the work bench causing me to spend more time
looking for them on the floor.Has anyone solved the problem of rolling tools
or time spent searching in a sea of silver for a specific tool? Am I alone
dealing with these frustrations? <G>Armand Premo



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Re: Ramblings

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I built a workbench specifically for model building. It has a plywood top and three side boards of 1" x 3" to catch those parts that seem to roll off the bench and disappear into never-never land. Another piece of 1" x 3" is at the back of the workbench. It is drilled with 1/4" and 1/2" holes to hold all of those round tools upright.



Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "A. Premo" <armprem@...> wrote:

Sitting at my work bench working on freight cars I am thinking about several
things that impede my progress:tools all silver and mostly round.I thought
how nice it would be if tools were color coded rather than spending precious
time locating the right xacto or screw driver.Then I thought of the many
times round tools rolled off the work bench causing me to spend more time
looking for them on the floor.Has anyone solved the problem of rolling tools
or time spent searching in a sea of silver for a specific tool? Am I alone
dealing with these frustrations? <G>Armand Premo


Re: MILW double-sheathed box cars

al_brown03
 

The 1/43 ORER gives the series as MILW 500000-502954, 795 cars. The 1/53 ORER shows a single car left: MILW 502055. There's a photo of MILW 500219 in Krause and Crist's NYO&W book, p 95, in a Middletown & Unionville train.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Awhile back I dug through a lot of material to identify a group
of MILW DS box cars, but now cannot find the full sheet of notes. All
I can find is a note (intended as a pointer to the full note sheet)
saying that these were MILW 500000 to about 502000. Can anyone confirm
if these are the right cars? And if not, what were they?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


DL&W 18000 series hoppers

Bud Rindfleisch
 

Hello,
I am looking for info, or plans for the Lackawanna RR 18000-18999 series covered hoppers blt in Oct '56. I have conflicting information on the length, one source says 41' another 47'. Any help?
Thanks,
Bud Rindfleisch


Re: MILW double-sheathed box cars

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

These boxcars were ubiquitous, but seldom photographed. These were the boxcars that were largely replaced by the large orders of SS cars in the late twenties, and they were to be completely retired by the production of the welded ribside cars in the late thirties. For all intents and purposes those cars whose lives were then extended by WWII service all but completely disappeared when the war ended. A very few lasted as late as 1953.

The diagram books do depict the breadth and variety of these cars. Richard Hendrickson has the best collection of photos that I know of. Most visual information otherwise has to be gained by close inspection of photographs where these cars are only an incidental subject. Some of the close details can be determined by inspection of the many photos that the Milwaukee shops took of their new-building lightweight "Hiawatha" passenger cars. On the next assembly line in full view were an entire line of the double sheathed cars being converted into flangers and MOW-type cars.

Denny


Re: Ramblings

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Robert Federle gave the first answer, here's the second: You have paint, I'm sure. A dab on the
tools you want to keep straight will assist. Since I am forever picking up the Phillips
screwdriver, instead of the straight bladed one, I have put a small red band around the Phillips.
On a few models which have both kinds of screw, when they are in obscure locations (like inside a
model), I may dab the screwhead with the corresponding color.

Since I use razor blades and not X-actos, that's not much of a problem. I try to remember to open a
new one each modeling session, since they are so cheap. Sharp tools are best.

SGL

Sitting at my work bench working on freight cars I am thinking about several
things that impede my progress:tools all silver and mostly round.I thought
how nice it would be if tools were color coded rather than spending precious
time locating the right xacto or screw driver.Then I thought of the many
times round tools rolled off the work bench causing me to spend more time
looking for them on the floor.Has anyone solved the problem of rolling tools
or time spent searching in a sea of silver for a specific tool? Am I alone
dealing with these frustrations? <G>Armand Premo




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