Date   

Re: ADMIN: STMFC's Time Period

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tom Madden writes:

"Thanks, Dave - much more succinctly and eloquently stated than my overly florid post. I was not advocating the consideration of rolling stock built after 1960, but I was suggesting that we not automatically shut down the discussion of post-1960 histories of pre-1960 cars. If someone were to ask "When did the XY&Z modify its 50-ton flat cars for TOFC service?", you'd likely see one of two responses. Either a tongue-in-cheek "After the cut-off date for this List" or a brusque "That's out of scope for this List". Neither is helpful, and the latter is, IMHO, borderline rude. What's wrong with answering "Late 1963. They were also renumbered into the NNNN series at that point, but all were out of service by 1971."

We don't insist that prototype photos of the steam era equipment we model be from 1960 or earlier - indeed, we'd be hard pressed to research or build our models without all those photos from the '60s, '70s and '80s. As long as we restrict our discussions to cars built during the steam era, can't we tolerate a little fuzziness in the end date?

I've had my say and will shut up now - probably two paragraphs too late for many of you. I will, of course, accede to and support Mike's judgment."

Tom Madden


Re: GATX Dry-Flo tank/covered hopper car

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Gene, are you only interested in the 1932 vintage car? GATC had "Dry-Flo" cars pictured in the 1961 CBC: UP 19249 and GACX 50000. I know of an RMC article as well for these later cars.

KL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Can anyone suggest a source of a photo of any GATX Dry-Flo car?


Re: GATX Dry-Flo tank/covered hopper car

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Thanks Ed, I'll have a look since I have a pretty complete collection of CBCs
Gene

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@> asked:
Can anyone suggest a source of a photo of any GATX Dry-Flo car?
If I'm not mistaken there's a photo and a line drawing of one of these cars in a CBC. I think the page is reprinted in the tank car Trainshed.

Ed


Re: Milwaukee Road Rib Side Caboose

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

John,
Thanks for a very thorough answer. I asked because we are moving and I may have a chance at a larger layout space where I can represent an interchange with the Milwaukee Road. A Milw caboose parked there will tell folks not familiar with what I am modeling which RR is represented.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "sctry" <JGreedy@...> wrote:

The Milwaukee Road designed and built the ribside caboose in their West Milwaukee Shpos begining in July 1939. There were 7 distinct groups of ribside cabooses. Walthers #932-7661 represents an as-delivered caboose from the initial 1939 construction numbered 01800 - 01874.

Production variations are grouped as:
1939 series
1940 series
1941 series
1944 series
1946 series
1949 series
and'
1951 series
The number series "0xxxx" changed in 1973 to "99xxxx". The familiar tilted rectangle herald with "The Milwaukee Road" began to appear below the bay window replacing the letter board road name by the very late 50's.

For further details the MRHA special publication "Rib-Side Cabooses" by Jeff Kehoe. This 40-page publication may still be available from the MRHA at www.mrha.com.

John Greedy

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@> wrote:

Walthers offers a number of Milwaukee Road Rib Side Caboose variations; mostly apparently merely different paint and lettering.

It appears to me that Walthers #932-7661 Platinum Line(TM) Milwaukee Road Rib Side Caboose Ready To Run -- Milwaukee Road Full Name is the earliest paint and lettering variant.

Is #932-7661 the earliest?

Were these cabooses first built in 1946?

Gene Green
OitwTtoEP


Re: The Steam Era

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Madden" <tgmadden@...> wrote:


That summer of 1950 my 14-year old self found nothing of interest in a 70-year look-back. Today's young modelers - whether 14, 24 or 34 - looking back 70 years find themselves smack in the middle of our era of interest. Should we expect them to find it interesting? These are people who lament the loss of Conrail, and consider it a Fallen Flag worthy of their attention.

Maybe I'm overreacting (again), but as I watch our 1960 cut-off date recede further and further into the past I fear that the Steam Era, and those of us who love it, will become ignored anachronisms for today's modelers, like the 1880's did for me.

Tom Madden
Oh, I don't know about that. I am 33, but I am definitely a steam era modeler. Ted Culotta, Jimmy Booth, and Jon Cagle don't look like they were around to remember mainline steam in its prime either, but they are busy producing beautiful models of steam era prototypes. I think there will always be interest in the steam/transition era, as there is just too much variety in roadnames, freight car construction techniques, locomotives, operations, etc. The percentage of transition era modelers may shrink, but I don't think we will ever disappear.

FWIW, I don't lament the loss of Conrail, either.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa CIty, IA

SIncerely,


Campbell Scale Models

Paul Hillman
 

I just received from Campbell Scale Models, their current catalog on DVD and have to say what a wonderfully done piece of work.

The entire DVD sections, on their various kits, are accompanied by the finest steam-era railroad music you'll ever hear. Don't know who the singer and band is, but they're very good. Lot's of songs about boxcars and being a "railroad man". Also, "The City of New Orleans", one of my favorites.

There are many prototype photos showing steam era freight cars and steam engines and the prototype stuctures Campbell models. Shows some UP covered hoppers in one scene.

One of the sections is on their Weston figures, like their old steam era engineers and hobos, etc.

The cost was only $5.00 and it is well worth it just for the music alone.

I'm not affiliated in any way with Campbell Scale Models, but just wanted to pass this on to all of the steam era & nostalgia fans.

I think, a great work regarding our beloved RR's.

Campbell's contact info is:

Campbell Scale Models
PO Box 3547
Central Point, Oregon 97502
Phone: (541) 664-9296
Owner: Duncan Campbell

Paul Hillman


John Rendall HO Single Sheathed Boxcar Kit

Mark
 

I bought this kit. The kit shows two doors, full one and a half one. Ends are wood with bracing. Fifty foot car. It has K brakes.

Which railroad would had this boxcar.

Thanks
Mark Morgan


Re: Milwaukee Road Rib Side Caboose

sctry
 

The Milwaukee Road designed and built the ribside caboose in their West Milwaukee Shpos begining in July 1939. There were 7 distinct groups of ribside cabooses. Walthers #932-7661 represents an as-delivered caboose from the initial 1939 construction numbered 01800 - 01874.

Production variations are grouped as:
1939 series
1940 series
1941 series
1944 series
1946 series
1949 series
and'
1951 series
The number series "0xxxx" changed in 1973 to "99xxxx". The familiar tilted rectangle herald with "The Milwaukee Road" began to appear below the bay window replacing the letter board road name by the very late 50's.

For further details the MRHA special publication "Rib-Side Cabooses" by Jeff Kehoe. This 40-page publication may still be available from the MRHA at www.mrha.com.

John Greedy

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Walthers offers a number of Milwaukee Road Rib Side Caboose variations; mostly apparently merely different paint and lettering.

It appears to me that Walthers #932-7661 Platinum Line(TM) Milwaukee Road Rib Side Caboose Ready To Run -- Milwaukee Road Full Name is the earliest paint and lettering variant.

Is #932-7661 the earliest?

Were these cabooses first built in 1946?

Gene Green
OitwTtoEP


Offset twins for stone service, was: W&P Sub - Rolling stock on trains

James Mischke <jmischke@...>
 

The question is why the 1950's shots of B&O stone trains with
dolomite for the steel mills are always loaded in offset side
hoppers, not a ribbed car to be seen.




Here is my hypothesis:


Offset side hoppers inherently had no internal cross braces
(they did have gussets) and these were preferred for stone service.

I have seen several B&O clearance diagrams for ribbed cars where
there is a note "cross bearers removed for aggragate service" or
something like that.

Why would cross bearers be undesirable? More hypotheses:

- Hoppers designed to be self clearing might not be so for
other commodities. Non-self-clearing open hoppers had to be
cleaned out by hand. The cross bearers are a hazard to workers
(not that railroads cared much about that in pre-OHSA days).

- Stone loading may be harder on the cross bearers, and need
repair often. Why not remove them from ribbed cars in stone service?

- Cross bearers may interfere with the heaping technique during
loading. Stone is concentrated over the trucks, for better
support, and slopes down to the hopper doors.


Discussion is welcome. I am posting this question and these
speculations to the Stream Era Freight car list, for their
discusssion too.



krokodilsbb wrote:

I assume that is what in some books (Bill Price?) referred to as the stone train? One thing I am curious about (for modeling accuracy) is that the stone train pictures (from the fifties) show, in contrast to coal trains, only solid blocks of off-set two bay B&O hoppers, no ribside hoppers at all. Any reason for this? Given the increased density of the stone I guess that two bay hoppers were sufficient and only filled about 60%.

Thomas Eckhardt

<snip>


Re: GATX Dry-Flo tank/covered hopper car

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> asked:
Can anyone suggest a source of a photo of any GATX Dry-Flo car?
If I'm not mistaken there's a photo and a line drawing of one of these cars in a CBC. I think the page is reprinted in the tank car Trainshed.

Ed


Re: alps printer

Kahl, Denis <denis.kahl@...>
 

John,



There are two yahoo groups for the ALPS printer - one is called alps and
the second is alpsdecal they are your best bet.





Denis Kahl

CISPLus+ Consultant

Metering and Revenue

Enterprise Business Services (Australia) Pty Ltd

Level 1, 321 Ferntree Gull Rd. Mt Waverley VIC 3149
T: (03) 8544 9133

E: denis.kahl@jemena.com.au <mailto:denis.kahl@jemena.com.au>

P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail





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Re: alps printer

John Riba
 

Hello Everyone,
 
  Thanks for the answers to my problem with the ALPS. I was hoping for a miracle.
 
          John

--- On Thu, 4/30/09, Douglas Harding <dharding@nethtc.net> wrote:

From: Douglas Harding <dharding@nethtc.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: alps printer
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Cc: jriba@sbcglobal.net
Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 3:50 PM








John, the Alps printer was discontinued a number of years ago. To my knowledge the last printer driver was for Windows98. I was
never able to get my Alps printer to work correctly with my XP computer after I upgraded from Windows98. I loaned the printer to a
friend, whose computer whiz son came up with a work around, but even they had problems. There is/was an Alps Yahoo list, you might
want to join it and ask.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr. org
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: alps printer

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

John, the Alps printer was discontinued a number of years ago. To my knowledge the last printer driver was for Windows98. I was
never able to get my Alps printer to work correctly with my XP computer after I upgraded from Windows98. I loaned the printer to a
friend, whose computer whiz son came up with a work around, but even they had problems. There is/was an Alps Yahoo list, you might
want to join it and ask.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: NYC 4 bay hopper lives too

Frank Greene
 

May I suggest there is a group for folks interested in the 1950-1970 Baby Boomer era: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/bbfcl and a group for folks interested in the 1960s - today Modern era: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MFCL . The suggestion ultimately begs the question, why not a freight car group for all eras... But, I guess y'all don't want to go there. :-)

The STMFC cut off at 1960 has some logic in that a thread connected 1960 to steam powered freight locomotion. As far as I'm personally concerned, 1960 is way too late for my choice of RRs... the Southern. By 1960, the Southern had been out of steam 7 years, was buying 2nd generation diesels (i.e., the generation after the generation that replaced steam), was starting a 5 year fight with the ICC over multiple car rate making freedom that relied on jumbo covered hoppers unheard of on any steam powered RR, was designing and prototyping several other innovative freight cars that had no connection with the steam era. Extending the cutoff to some later date makes no sense.

Now, to be honest, my primary interest is in the 1970s. Since an awful lot of 1940s-50s built cars were still active through the 70s, moving the cutoff to a later date is no skin off my back. I just don't see the logic.




Andy Carlson wrote:

I too, would encourage a softening of the cut-off date. May I suggest 1967????
-Andy Carlson




Tempus fugit and all that, but next year the 1960 cut-off date of our chosen era will be half a century in the rear view mirror. Those trainorders. com nostalgists get all teary-eyed over finding tunnel motors and per diem boxcars, while the objects of our affection are either in museums or out in some farmer's fields. Maybe it's time to fudge our end date this way a few years. We need to be keeping the flame, not tending the grave.

Tom Madden






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




--

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: ADMIN: STMFC's Time Period

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I think Dave Nelson is right that the "steam locomotive usage" logic behind our 1960 cut-off date is weak, but to me the real point is that it's worked our pretty well, so I totally support Mike's decision to maintain it. To me, it roughly coincides with an important benchmark in freight car history, the introduction of much larger cars of several types, as well as being an approximate time when roller bearings became dominant. Both these things greatly changed the look (and the technology) of freight cars, so to me, 1960 does make some sense--even if the "steam age cut-off" is not too believable.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: ADMIN: STMFC's Time Period

Dave Nelson
 

Mike Brock wrote:

Anyhow, the issue of time period for the STMFC isn't open for debate.
When the group was formed with around 30 members, I committed to the
group's time period and that's what it will always be.
Some background:

As one of the 30 or so I recall the discussion of the end date, a good part
of which was done privately in e-mail. Tom was there too. My own opinion
at the time was 1960 was too modern... an opinion I continue to hold. I
would have been perfectly comfortable with a 1950 date as my own interest in
steam era freight cars (not the locomotives that pull them) is in the
multitude of significant variations in car design present thru much of the
late steam era and the corresponding lack of universally used uniform
designs. Of course there were various attempts at standardization, the
1937 boxcar design being the most numerous, but WWII came along and pretty
much postponed further adoption of standard designs until the consumer
driven economy resurfaced after the war... hence my own interest in a 1950
cut off.

Other opinions held the initial mass acceptance of standard designs
throughout the 50's was indeed of both broad interest and associated in time
with the use of steam locomotives, and that opinion ultimately carried the
day.

All that was left was to pick a closing date... one that could be succinctly
stated. The logic of using 1960 was, IMO, pretty weak, other than it
reflected the commonly (mis)undestood start of a new decade as there was
nothing about it (at least as I recall today) that was germaine to freight
car design. But it was picked anyway, no doubt because it was far easier to
communicate than the characteristics describing the types of freight cars
that were not to be discussed.

Moving forward to this week... Tom offered some insightful comments to
remind us of how far back in time our charter places us. IMO, the question
he poses is this: Are the topics we discuss bounded by a domain of freight
car designs or one marked by its distance from the present? I think the
answer is clear -- the former. To use an analogy, consider starting another
group and trying to decide between discussing the American Civil War or
American History as of a moving 4 year period that starts 148 years ago?
It's a no-brainer choice.

That said, we're still stuck w/ the difficulty of stating the real criteria
that bounds our discussion -- the designs themselves. Using start and end
dates is nothing more than a very simple code around that problem, one that
works well enough for everyone to use. IMO what is important to inderstand
is that the dates we use are really just a code, one that is representing a
more complex fact. They are not the facts themselves.

Dave Nelson


Re: FGE/WFE/BRE/NX Steel Cars Table

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Its called

Steel Swing Door & Rebuilds Table.doc

It took me a while to find, too.

Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: rwitt_2000 <rwitt_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Apr 30, 2009 1:44 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE/WFE/BRE/NX Steel Cars Table

Help, I may be having a bad day, but I cannot file Mike Brock's posting.
- Bob Witt


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <bwelch@...> wrote:

Mike Brock has very kindly posted a four-page table showing the cars
owned and operated by FGE/WFE/BRE/NX Consortium. Together with the long
message I sent recently, this may help serious modelers make soe
headway. Phots are necessary too. I should note I continue to uncover
surprises related to FGE and NX fleet, both wood and steel, so there may
be more cars out there to discover, but the common cars are all there. I
do not believe there are any gaps in the WFE and BRE entries.

The time period covered is 1932 through 1957. Happy modeling!

Bill Welch


Re: FGE/WFE/BRE/NX Steel Cars Table

rwitt_2000
 

Help, I may be having a bad day, but I cannot file Mike Brock's posting.
- Bob Witt


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <bwelch@...> wrote:

Mike Brock has very kindly posted a four-page table showing the cars
owned and operated by FGE/WFE/BRE/NX Consortium. Together with the long
message I sent recently, this may help serious modelers make soe
headway. Phots are necessary too. I should note I continue to uncover
surprises related to FGE and NX fleet, both wood and steel, so there may
be more cars out there to discover, but the common cars are all there. I
do not believe there are any gaps in the WFE and BRE entries.

The time period covered is 1932 through 1957. Happy modeling!

Bill Welch


Re: alps printer

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

John

These are not repairable these days. ALPS never released the special
tools and software needed to fix them to anyone else and they are no
longer supported in the North Amercian market.

There are a couple of ALPS lists on yahoo and some of the fixes
available to owners are documented there as well copies of the most
recent drivers

Aidrian


Back issues of RMJ & MM

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

Towards the end, I found it hard to get copies of "Rail Model Journal" and "Mainline Modeler" locally. Is there a source known to anyone for issues of these?

Bill Welch

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