Date   

Re: Lehigh Gas tank cars - Norwich Connecticut

Marty McGuirk
 

Garth,

I've checked the Sanborns and although they show the footprint of the various buildings they don't tell me what they looked like.

I checked with the Norwich Historical Society - nothing much on Lehigh Gas, although they had some info on the Standard Oil dealer next door. Most Connecticut small town historical societies I've dealt with over the years seem to think the town's history stopped in 1820!

There's been an Arcadia book published on Norwich that may be useful, but it's out of print at Arcadia. The folks at the Historical Society didn't know about the book, which struck me as rather odd.

Thanks for the tips!

Marty

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Marty,

Have you checked the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps? They should include
detailed ground plans of this facility. Your public library can probably
get what you need on microfilm. Also try the Norwich historical society
or the nearest university library. Some libraries can access the maps
online (where I work we have only Virginia).

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

cvsne wrote:
As luck would have it one of the towns on my Central Vermont layout is Norwich, Connecticut - known for many things but among Steam Era freight car fans and modelers it's most likely best known as the location of a Lehigh Gas facility - see

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/tank/acf/lgx500main.html

While I'm interested modeling the cars I'm also trying to track down some information on the facility itself, and I'm curious if any portion of the facility in Norwich shows up in the background (or anywhere) in pictures of the tank cars themselves.

Oh, and I welcome any suggestions on the best way to model these particular cars.

Thanks,

Marty


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike Brock wrote

Red Caboose kit # 4001, R-30-12 has the Overland medallion without
"System". So, I would think an R-30-12 with an Overland medallion
could be found in 1950.
Probably, yes.

WP kit # 4201 [ R-30-12 ] has no such holes and bolt heads and the
paint scheme of 1939. The prototype has ladders.
I'm pretty sure if you check this kit, it has the original carbody
and is neither an R-30-12 nor an R-30-9. Moreover, it is simply not
correct for the WP cars.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Lehigh Gas tank cars - Norwich Connecticut

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Marty,

Have you checked the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps? They should include detailed ground plans of this facility. Your public library can probably get what you need on microfilm. Also try the Norwich historical society or the nearest university library. Some libraries can access the maps online (where I work we have only Virginia).

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

cvsne wrote:

As luck would have it one of the towns on my Central Vermont layout is Norwich, Connecticut - known for many things but among Steam Era freight car fans and modelers it's most likely best known as the location of a Lehigh Gas facility - see
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/tank/acf/lgx500main.html

While I'm interested modeling the cars I'm also trying to track down some information on the facility itself, and I'm curious if any portion of the facility in Norwich shows up in the background (or anywhere) in pictures of the tank cars themselves.
Oh, and I welcome any suggestions on the best way to model these particular cars.
Thanks,
Marty


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Tim O'Connor
 

Armand wrote

Mike et al, Admittedly I am over my head wandering around
in the dark. Like Pennsy box cars I have to have PFE reefers.
Geeez, Just when I was beginning to trust manufacturers. Guess
I'll just have to stick with resin kits, and even then with
my guard up. Armand Premo
Armand

You certainly must be on guard at all times. Sunshine has done
models with incorrect underframes, incorrect doors, incorrect
decals, and even incorrect PFE carbody width (the R-50-5 model).
Not to mention packing errors -- I have received kits with parts
missing, or packed with the wrong parts!

Trust, but verify! :-)

Tim O'Connor


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Tim O'Connor
 

Armand, Red Caboose 4100, 4101-x, 4200, and 4201-x are all
incorrect PERIOD -- they are not correct for any version of
a PFE reefer. The worst error is the doors. If were just a
question of height, you could use this body to build the
R-30-12.

Tim O'Connor

Gentlemen, RC 4101-1 and 4101-2 are identical. Stated IH
is 7' 3" Actual measurement is 8' 3" car


Lehigh Gas tank cars - Norwich Connecticut

Marty McGuirk
 

As luck would have it one of the towns on my Central Vermont layout is Norwich, Connecticut - known for many things but among Steam Era freight car fans and modelers it's most likely best known as the location of a Lehigh Gas facility - see

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/tank/acf/lgx500main.html

While I'm interested modeling the cars I'm also trying to track down some information on the facility itself, and I'm curious if any portion of the facility in Norwich shows up in the background (or anywhere) in pictures of the tank cars themselves.

Oh, and I welcome any suggestions on the best way to model these particular cars.

Thanks,

Marty


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Armand Premo
 

Mike et al ,Admittedly I am over my head wandering around in the dark.Like Pennsy box cars I have to have PFE reefers.Geeez, Just when I was beginning to trust manufacturers.Quess I'll just have to stick with resin kits, and even then with my guard up.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9





First, Armand...Welcome to the world of PFE. Before you become too involved
be aware that I know of at least two modelers who, attempting to learn the
PFE reefer car mods, their numbering changes, their paint schemes along with
when they existed, are now in places like Sunnybrook Rest Home. One of them
has to be kept in a separate guarded facility because he tried to bite an
attendant when the attendant asked him if he had ever seen the Pacific
Ocean.

Bruce Smith says about the Red Caboose R-30-12 and R-30-12-9:

> Actually, aren't both wrong? I have the R-30-12-9 and R-30-12 at home and
> I did a little looking in the archives. I believe the 4101 kits may be
> the original run of low height carbodies. If so, the carbody height
> actually represents an R-30-12, not the taller rebuilt R-30-12-9 (aka
> R-30-9).

I think that is correct.

"As such, both would be wrongly painted, but you could strip the one with
ladder grabs and paint it for an appropriate R-30-12 scheme."

I'm not sure why the R-30-12 would be wrongly painted. While the R-30-13's
were apparently renumbered prior to scrapping [ PFE book, pg 100 ], there is
no such statement with regard to the 12's. PFE book, pg 98 indicates 284 12
and 13's made it to 1950 under their original numbers. There is no telling
what paint scheme these survived with...although one might assume few would
be in the Overland scheme but I wouldn't want to bet my Key Big Boys on
that. In fact, the Big Boy Collection video...which contains the infamous
train of 36 SP box cars...also has a train with a wood PFE reefer with the
single UP medallion in 1953. Is it the Overland? I'll check. The PFE book,
pg 387 shows an Overland medallion in 1948. Now, that's only 6 yrs after the
Overland [ without "System" ] was removed from the medallion. Red Caboose
kit # 4001, R-30-12 has the Overland medallion without "System". So, I would
think an R-30-12 with an Overland medallion could be found in 1950.

"As for the car with ladders, I looked in the PFE book and could not find
any R-30-12 (or -13) reefers with ladders on the original body, so that one
is a bust, if these are the lower carbodies..."

Hmmm. More study may be needed. Now, I notice that R-30-12 kit # 4001-2 has
holes and bolt heads for individual grabs but does not include the grabs,
having ladders instead. It would be easy to build the 12 with individual
grabs...or ladders. OTOH, WP kit # 4201 [ R-30-12 ] has no such holes and
bolt heads and the paint scheme of 1939. The prototype has ladders.

> Armand - are the bodies the same height?

I'm betting the R-30-12-9 has a side 8 ft high as does the 12. The R-30-9
has an 8.5 ft height.

Mike Brock






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Re: Minnesota Mining & Mfg. boxcar

cinderandeight@...
 

I don't know if I'm at liberty to say who will make it, but I understand
that there will be a resin kit of the 3M cars in the future. I've supplied
a number of photos for it.
Rich Burg
**************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after
instant savings!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222627952x1201458914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819460%3B36680227%3Bi)


Re: Soo Line "Sawtooth" SS Box Car...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 13, 2009, at 7:02 PM, Jack Burgess wrote:

I've getting started on a Speedwitch kit for the Soo Line
"Sawtooth" SS box
car. Ted provides an AB brake set but, since these cars were built
in 1923,
it would seem logical that they were originally built with KC
brakes. I'm
modeling one of these cars circa 1939...would they still have KC
brakes (if
my assumption is correct) or would they have been converted to AB
brakes by
then?







I've searched for conclusive photographic evidence, but no luck.
You're right that they were delivered with KC brakes, as several
builder's photos show, but I can't find any in-service photos dating
from earlier than the early 1950s, by which time they all appear to
have been converted to AB brakes. Dennis Storzek may have some more
conclusive information, but the best I can say is that, like most
other RRs., the Soo wasn't eager to spend money during the depression
applying AB brakes to older cars, so you're probably safe in assuming
that the car you're modeling would still have had KC brakes in 1939.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Minnesota Mining & Mfg. boxcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 13, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
I have several and will send a couple of scans off-list.
Are these cars anything like the Train Miniature DS box cars?





Uh, well, they were 40' wood sheathed box cars, but that's about as
far as the resemblance goes. The TM models had the wrong roof, wrong
underframe, wrong doors, and those wide side sills, to say nothing of
their generally ugly and oversize details. I'm not saying you
couldn't rework one into a fairly accurate replica, but IMHO it would
be way more work than it's worth, and straight out of the box the TM
car isn't a remotely acceptable stand-in.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain bulkhead flat cars

leakinmywaders
 

Hey Jim, can you share which B&O number series these bulkhead flats were? Thnx,

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...> wrote:



Intermountain was working from provided B&O drawings and photographs. I met with their toolmaker twice in person to iron out details. So I have some confidence they will be accurate for B&O.


Jim Mischke
B&OHS Model Committee


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

First, Armand...Welcome to the world of PFE. Before you become too involved be aware that I know of at least two modelers who, attempting to learn the PFE reefer car mods, their numbering changes, their paint schemes along with when they existed, are now in places like Sunnybrook Rest Home. One of them has to be kept in a separate guarded facility because he tried to bite an attendant when the attendant asked him if he had ever seen the Pacific Ocean.


Bruce Smith says about the Red Caboose R-30-12 and R-30-12-9:

Actually, aren't both wrong? I have the R-30-12-9 and R-30-12 at home and I did a little looking in the archives. I believe the 4101 kits may be the original run of low height carbodies. If so, the carbody height actually represents an R-30-12, not the taller rebuilt R-30-12-9 (aka R-30-9).
I think that is correct.

"As such, both would be wrongly painted, but you could strip the one with ladder grabs and paint it for an appropriate R-30-12 scheme."

I'm not sure why the R-30-12 would be wrongly painted. While the R-30-13's were apparently renumbered prior to scrapping [ PFE book, pg 100 ], there is no such statement with regard to the 12's. PFE book, pg 98 indicates 284 12 and 13's made it to 1950 under their original numbers. There is no telling what paint scheme these survived with...although one might assume few would be in the Overland scheme but I wouldn't want to bet my Key Big Boys on that. In fact, the Big Boy Collection video...which contains the infamous train of 36 SP box cars...also has a train with a wood PFE reefer with the single UP medallion in 1953. Is it the Overland? I'll check. The PFE book, pg 387 shows an Overland medallion in 1948. Now, that's only 6 yrs after the Overland [ without "System" ] was removed from the medallion. Red Caboose kit # 4001, R-30-12 has the Overland medallion without "System". So, I would think an R-30-12 with an Overland medallion could be found in 1950.

"As for the car with ladders, I looked in the PFE book and could not find any R-30-12 (or -13) reefers with ladders on the original body, so that one is a bust, if these are the lower carbodies..."

Hmmm. More study may be needed. Now, I notice that R-30-12 kit # 4001-2 has holes and bolt heads for individual grabs but does not include the grabs, having ladders instead. It would be easy to build the 12 with individual grabs...or ladders. OTOH, WP kit # 4201 [ R-30-12 ] has no such holes and bolt heads and the paint scheme of 1939. The prototype has ladders.

Armand - are the bodies the same height?
I'm betting the R-30-12-9 has a side 8 ft high as does the 12. The R-30-9 has an 8.5 ft height.

Mike Brock


Re: Soo Line "Sawtooth" SS Box Car...

Paul Lyons
 

Jack,

If Richard Hendrickson were at your door with the Prototype Police, I suspect you?would be?better?off with?a K brake on your 1939 Soo boxcar.

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com>
To: Steam Era Freight Cars <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, 13 May 2009 7:02 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Soo Line "Sawtooth" SS Box Car...








I've getting started on a Speedwitch kit for the Soo Line "Sawtooth" SS box
car. Ted provides an AB brake set but, since these cars were built in 1923,
it would seem logical that they were originally built with KC brakes. I'm
modeling one of these cars circa 1939...would they still have KC brakes (if
my assumption is correct) or would they have been converted to AB brakes by
then?

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Soo Line "Sawtooth" SS Box Car...

Jack Burgess
 

I've getting started on a Speedwitch kit for the Soo Line "Sawtooth" SS box
car. Ted provides an AB brake set but, since these cars were built in 1923,
it would seem logical that they were originally built with KC brakes. I'm
modeling one of these cars circa 1939...would they still have KC brakes (if
my assumption is correct) or would they have been converted to AB brakes by
then?

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Armand Premo
 

Gentlemen,RC -4101-1 and 4101-2 are identical.Stated IH is 7' 3" Actual measurement is 8' 3".car numbers are 92809 and 92814 CU FT 1288.Do you need additional measurements ?.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9





Bruce Smith wrote:
> Actually, aren't both wrong? I have the R-30-12-9 and R-30-12 at
> home and I did a little looking in the archives. I believe the 4101
> kits may be the original run of low height carbodies. If so, the
> carbody height actually represents an R-30-12, not the taller
> rebuilt R-30-12-9 (aka R-30-9). As such, both would be wrongly
> painted, but you could strip the one with ladder grabs and paint it
> for an appropriate R-30-12 scheme. As for the car with ladders, I
> looked in the PFE book and could not find any R-30-12 (or -13)
> reefers with ladders on the original body, so that one is a bust, if
> these are the lower carbodies...
>
> Armand - are the bodies the same height? Can you measure them and
> let us know? I can compare to the RCs I have at home

You are right, Bruce, and since I don't have either kit I
couldn't check. For the one with grabs, I think you would only have to
strip the class number (and the "reconditioned" legend) and the car
number.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history






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Re: Minnesota Mining & Mfg. boxcar

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
I have several and will send a couple of scans off-list.
Are these cars anything like the Train Miniature DS box cars?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Minnesota Mining & Mfg. boxcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 13, 2009, at 2:12 PM, frograbbit602 wrote:

I find in the 1953 ORER that 3M had 47 cars. I would like to model
a car in series 1001 to 1040. I have a Train Miniature boxcar
purchased in 1979 lettered for MINX 1040 which created the
interest. I have never been able to find a photo of one of these
cars. Does anyone know of a photo available to view or obtain to
model a 3M car?






I have several and will send a couple of scans off-list.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
Actually, aren't both wrong? I have the R-30-12-9 and R-30-12 at home and I did a little looking in the archives. I believe the 4101 kits may be the original run of low height carbodies. If so, the carbody height actually represents an R-30-12, not the taller rebuilt R-30-12-9 (aka R-30-9). As such, both would be wrongly painted, but you could strip the one with ladder grabs and paint it for an appropriate R-30-12 scheme. As for the car with ladders, I looked in the PFE book and could not find any R-30-12 (or -13) reefers with ladders on the original body, so that one is a bust, if these are the lower carbodies...

Armand - are the bodies the same height? Can you measure them and let us know? I can compare to the RCs I have at home
You are right, Bruce, and since I don't have either kit I couldn't check. For the one with grabs, I think you would only have to strip the class number (and the "reconditioned" legend) and the car number.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Bruce Smith
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Armand Premo wrote:
Thanks again Tony.Both cars are R-30-12-9.Both were "completely
reconditioned",repacked and light weighted on 7-39.
One's right, one's wrong. Now you know which <g>.

Tony Thompson
Actually, aren't both wrong? I have the R-30-12-9 and R-30-12 at home and I did a little looking in the archives. I believe the 4101 kits may be the original run of low height carbodies. If so, the carbody height actually represents an R-30-12, not the taller rebuilt R-30-12-9 (aka R-30-9). As such, both would be wrongly painted, but you could strip the one with ladder grabs and paint it for an appropriate R-30-12 scheme. As for the car with ladders, I looked in the PFE book and could not find any R-30-12 (or -13) reefers with ladders on the original body, so that one is a bust, if these are the lower carbodies...

Armand - are the bodies the same height? Can you measure them and let us know? I can compare to the RCs I have at home

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Minnesota Mining & Mfg. boxcar

frograbbit602
 

I find in the 1953 ORER that 3M had 47 cars. I would like to model a car in series 1001 to 1040. I have a Train Miniature boxcar purchased in 1979 lettered for MINX 1040 which created the interest. I have never been able to find a photo of one of these cars. Does anyone know of a photo available to view or obtain to model a 3M car?

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