Date   

Help on B&O M-53 last years of Creco doors.

George Courtney
 

From another list a question is arising as to the last date a B&) Wagontop M-53 could use a Creco door. A search of the prior listings show a lot of discussion on Creco's but no clear date for this car with this door. Can anyone help?

Thanks,
George Courtney


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike Brock wrote

Well, since we are referring to kits as they come in the box, I would agree.
I should have noted that I scribe the boards over the doors in order to make
it an R-30-12. What else needs to be done to represent a WP car that I'm not
thinking about?
Mike Brock

Most of the WP cars were based on the R-30-13. Most of them had
Hutchins roofs. Almost ALL of the remaiing original/reconditioned
cars were withdrawn from service by 1950; After that rebuilding
began in earnest for the surviving cars. Sunshine produced a model
of the rebuilt cars. Many of them were modified later with electric
fans (not included in the Sunshine model).

So your work is cut out for you, if you want to represent a WP/PFE
reefer in the 1950's.

Tim O'Connor


Re: RC PFE R-30-9 (was RC PFE R-30-12-9)

mcindoefalls
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

The color of the side is achieved by using orange plastic. It gives the unassembled kit that glow-in-the-dark look.... Should I paint the inside of the body black?
I've done that on yellow and orange cars, and while doing so very slightly darkens the color, I think it's an improvement. Have not tried dulling the exterior with a flat spray, but that would help too, I think.

Walt Lankenau


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Garth Groff writes:


Even if the body was right, the RC model's underframe isn't right for
the WP/PFE cars. Most, if not all (there is some doubt about this, see
Tony's book), used the later R-30-13 underframe. IIRC, this was called a
30-ton "built-up" underframe. You can use Tichy's 40-ton underframe
parts to come close.
Yes, the PFE book suggests that about 200 WP cars out of 2775 might have the "12" design. Using the Tichy underframe is a good solution given the fact that I went the other way prior to Red Caboose cars, making Bettendorf underframes by modifying the Tichy underframe.
That was before my first visit to Sunnybrook Rest Home.

Mike Brock


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor says:

I'm pretty sure if you check this kit, it has the original carbody
and is neither an R-30-12 nor an R-30-9. Moreover, it is simply not
correct for the WP cars.
Well, since we are referring to kits as they come in the box, I would agree. I should have noted that I scribe the boards over the doors in order to make it an R-30-12. What else needs to be done to represent a WP car that I'm not thinking about?

Mike Brock


Re: RC PFE R-30-9 (was RC PFE R-30-12-9)

Bruce Smith
 

On May 14, 2009, at 9:08 AM, Gene Green wrote:

I am looking at Red Caboose kit RC-4151-2 for PFE car number 92821. Would anyone care to comment on its accuracy?

The color of the side is achieved by using orange plastic. It gives the unassembled kit that glow-in-the-dark look. If I would weather the car a-la-Hendrickson (no offense, Richard, you do good work) I could probably cover that glow-in-the-dark look but I don't usually weather that heavily.

Does anyone have an alternate suggestion? Should I paint the inside of the body black?

I am fortunate enough to have the PFE book (Sorry, that should be THE PFE book) so I can get good lettering information. Should I search for decals and simply repaint the whole thing?

Maybe I should just put it together and forget about it. More than 30 years ago I operated regularly on a model railroad populated with Model Die Casting freight cars and passenger cars to the virtual exclusion of all else. That railroad was more fun than any I've operated on before or since. That may be a clue to my definition of model railroading fun.

Gene Green
Gene,

A coat of clear flat will often help get rid of that dayglo plastic look. I'd give that a try, if you think the paint and lettering is OK.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
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|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
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Re: RC PFE R-30-9 (was RC PFE R-30-12-9)

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

I am looking at Red Caboose kit RC-4151-2 for PFE car number 92821. Would anyone care to comment on its accuracy?

The color of the side is achieved by using orange plastic. It gives the unassembled kit that glow-in-the-dark look. If I would weather the car a-la-Hendrickson (no offense, Richard, you do good work) I could probably cover that glow-in-the-dark look but I don't usually weather that heavily.

Does anyone have an alternate suggestion? Should I paint the inside of the body black?

I am fortunate enough to have the PFE book (Sorry, that should be THE PFE book) so I can get good lettering information. Should I search for decals and simply repaint the whole thing?

Maybe I should just put it together and forget about it. More than 30 years ago I operated regularly on a model railroad populated with Model Die Casting freight cars and passenger cars to the virtual exclusion of all else. That railroad was more fun than any I've operated on before or since. That may be a clue to my definition of model railroading fun.

Gene Green


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Bruce Smith
 

On May 14, 2009, at 8:37 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

The numbers I listed -- 4100, 4101, 4200, 4201 -- are the only
kits that use the original incorrect carbody, as far as I know.
I know because I have all of them. :-(

Which is quite different than saying all the other RC kits are
correct, which would be false.

Terry's kitbash kits are accurate, as is his own Pacific Freight
Enterprises R-30-18 kit.
Which should be noted as an R-30-13 rebuild (R-30-13-18, not R-30-12-18) with the built up underframe... ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
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Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Tim O'Connor
 

The numbers I listed -- 4100, 4101, 4200, 4201 -- are the only
kits that use the original incorrect carbody, as far as I know.
I know because I have all of them. :-(

Which is quite different than saying all the other RC kits are
correct, which would be false.

Terry's kitbash kits are accurate, as is his own Pacific Freight
Enterprises R-30-18 kit.

Tim O'Connor

Did RC change product numbers with the new kits? If so does anyone know what
they might be. I have 6 R-30-9's and a few of Terry Wegman's conversition
kits (from Andy Carlson) so I would like to make sure the cars are correct.
I'm fairly confident the Terry Wegman kits are OK since they are only a few
years old.
Brian Carlson


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tim,

Even if the body was right, the RC model's underframe isn't right for the WP/PFE cars. Most, if not all (there is some doubt about this, see Tony's book), used the later R-30-13 underframe. IIRC, this was called a 30-ton "built-up" underframe. You can use Tichy's 40-ton underframe parts to come close.

I used my original short-body kits to build four of the R-40-6 egg cars on R-30-11/12 underfames, as supplied by RC. Their body dimensions are very close to the R-40-6 diagrams. Some details may be compromises, but given the paucity of information about these cars and a complete lack of photos, I am satisfied.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Tim O'Connor wrote:

I'm pretty sure if you check this kit, it has the original carbody
and is neither an R-30-12 nor an R-30-9. Moreover, it is simply not
correct for the WP cars.

Tim O'Connor


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Did RC change product numbers with the new kits? If so does anyone know what
they might be. I have 6 R-30-9's and a few of Terry Wegman's conversition
kits (from Andy Carlson) so I would like to make sure the cars are correct.
I'm fairly confident the Terry Wegman kits are OK since they are only a few
years old.

Brian Carlson


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Tim O'Connor
 

Let me just add: Sunshine's R-30-9 and other wood bodied
PFE reefer kits are significantly better detailed than the
Red Caboose plastic kits. So much detail is missing from
the plastic cars that I almost regard them as "stand in"
models.

And of course, the Red Caboose cars only come with the single
I-beam Bettendorf 30 ton underframe. Sunshine offers you three
different underframes.

Tim O'Connor

The subsequent corrected RC releases of the R-30-12 and R-30-9
(R-30-12-9) are excellent kits. Both kits can be improved by shaving
off the brake levers and adding free-standing ones. In addition, the
R-30-9 (R-30-12-9) is good fodder for other cars such as the
R-30-12-16 (R-30-16)and R-30-12-18 (R-30-18) conversions and for
those feeling more adventurous, the R-30-13 and R-30-13-16 with the
use of the Tichy underframe (note that the R-30-13-18 is available as
a plastic kit already).

Regards, From the Sunnybrook Rest Home ;^)
Bruce


Re: Minnesota Mining & Mfg. boxcar

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Tony,

There's a photo of a 3M car online at atsfrr,net, the Santa Fe society site. Look under "company store" in the Jack Whitmeyer photo collection, "miscellaneous rolling stock." It's identified by its reporting marks, MINX.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Armand Premo
 

WOW ! Thank you Tim. .Anyone need some nearly new second hand reefers? Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 8:39 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9






Armand, Red Caboose 4100, 4101-x, 4200, and 4201-x are all
incorrect PERIOD -- they are not correct for any version of
a PFE reefer. The worst error is the doors. If were just a
question of height, you could use this body to build the
R-30-12.

Tim O'Connor

>> Gentlemen, RC 4101-1 and 4101-2 are identical. Stated IH
>> is 7' 3" Actual measurement is 8' 3" car






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Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Bruce Smith
 

On May 14, 2009, at 5:17 AM, Armand Premo wrote:

Mike et al ,Admittedly I am over my head wandering around in the dark.Like Pennsy box cars I have to have PFE reefers.Geeez, Just when I was beginning to trust manufacturers.Quess I'll just have to stick with resin kits, and even then with my guard up.Armand Premo
Never ever trust either RC or IM with respect to paint and lettering ;^) While I agree with Tim's assessment for Sunshine, with these companies, it isn't "Trust but Verify" but "Verify before you buy"!

The subsequent corrected RC releases of the R-30-12 and R-30-9 (R-30-12-9) are excellent kits. Both kits can be improved by shaving off the brake levers and adding free-standing ones. In addition, the R-30-9 (R-30-12-9) is good fodder for other cars such as the R-30-12-16 (R-30-16)and R-30-12-18 (R-30-18) conversions and for those feeling more adventurous, the R-30-13 and R-30-13-16 with the use of the Tichy underframe (note that the R-30-13-18 is available as a plastic kit already).

Regards, From the Sunnybrook Rest Home ;^)
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Lehigh Gas tank cars - Norwich Connecticut

Marty McGuirk
 

Garth,

I've checked the Sanborns and although they show the footprint of the various buildings they don't tell me what they looked like.

I checked with the Norwich Historical Society - nothing much on Lehigh Gas, although they had some info on the Standard Oil dealer next door. Most Connecticut small town historical societies I've dealt with over the years seem to think the town's history stopped in 1820!

There's been an Arcadia book published on Norwich that may be useful, but it's out of print at Arcadia. The folks at the Historical Society didn't know about the book, which struck me as rather odd.

Thanks for the tips!

Marty

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Marty,

Have you checked the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps? They should include
detailed ground plans of this facility. Your public library can probably
get what you need on microfilm. Also try the Norwich historical society
or the nearest university library. Some libraries can access the maps
online (where I work we have only Virginia).

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

cvsne wrote:
As luck would have it one of the towns on my Central Vermont layout is Norwich, Connecticut - known for many things but among Steam Era freight car fans and modelers it's most likely best known as the location of a Lehigh Gas facility - see

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/tank/acf/lgx500main.html

While I'm interested modeling the cars I'm also trying to track down some information on the facility itself, and I'm curious if any portion of the facility in Norwich shows up in the background (or anywhere) in pictures of the tank cars themselves.

Oh, and I welcome any suggestions on the best way to model these particular cars.

Thanks,

Marty


Re: Lehigh Gas tank cars - Norwich Connecticut

Marty McGuirk
 

Garth,

I've checked the Sanborns and although they show the footprint of the various buildings they don't tell me what they looked like.

I checked with the Norwich Historical Society - nothing much on Lehigh Gas, although they had some info on the Standard Oil dealer next door. Most Connecticut small town historical societies I've dealt with over the years seem to think the town's history stopped in 1820!

There's been an Arcadia book published on Norwich that may be useful, but it's out of print at Arcadia. The folks at the Historical Society didn't know about the book, which struck me as rather odd.

Thanks for the tips!

Marty

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Marty,

Have you checked the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps? They should include
detailed ground plans of this facility. Your public library can probably
get what you need on microfilm. Also try the Norwich historical society
or the nearest university library. Some libraries can access the maps
online (where I work we have only Virginia).

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

cvsne wrote:
As luck would have it one of the towns on my Central Vermont layout is Norwich, Connecticut - known for many things but among Steam Era freight car fans and modelers it's most likely best known as the location of a Lehigh Gas facility - see

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/tank/acf/lgx500main.html

While I'm interested modeling the cars I'm also trying to track down some information on the facility itself, and I'm curious if any portion of the facility in Norwich shows up in the background (or anywhere) in pictures of the tank cars themselves.

Oh, and I welcome any suggestions on the best way to model these particular cars.

Thanks,

Marty


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike Brock wrote

Red Caboose kit # 4001, R-30-12 has the Overland medallion without
"System". So, I would think an R-30-12 with an Overland medallion
could be found in 1950.
Probably, yes.

WP kit # 4201 [ R-30-12 ] has no such holes and bolt heads and the
paint scheme of 1939. The prototype has ladders.
I'm pretty sure if you check this kit, it has the original carbody
and is neither an R-30-12 nor an R-30-9. Moreover, it is simply not
correct for the WP cars.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Lehigh Gas tank cars - Norwich Connecticut

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Marty,

Have you checked the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps? They should include detailed ground plans of this facility. Your public library can probably get what you need on microfilm. Also try the Norwich historical society or the nearest university library. Some libraries can access the maps online (where I work we have only Virginia).

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

cvsne wrote:

As luck would have it one of the towns on my Central Vermont layout is Norwich, Connecticut - known for many things but among Steam Era freight car fans and modelers it's most likely best known as the location of a Lehigh Gas facility - see
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/tank/acf/lgx500main.html

While I'm interested modeling the cars I'm also trying to track down some information on the facility itself, and I'm curious if any portion of the facility in Norwich shows up in the background (or anywhere) in pictures of the tank cars themselves.
Oh, and I welcome any suggestions on the best way to model these particular cars.
Thanks,
Marty


Re: RC PFE R-30-12-9

Tim O'Connor
 

Armand wrote

Mike et al, Admittedly I am over my head wandering around
in the dark. Like Pennsy box cars I have to have PFE reefers.
Geeez, Just when I was beginning to trust manufacturers. Guess
I'll just have to stick with resin kits, and even then with
my guard up. Armand Premo
Armand

You certainly must be on guard at all times. Sunshine has done
models with incorrect underframes, incorrect doors, incorrect
decals, and even incorrect PFE carbody width (the R-50-5 model).
Not to mention packing errors -- I have received kits with parts
missing, or packed with the wrong parts!

Trust, but verify! :-)

Tim O'Connor

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