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Re: Well, that's . . . odd
Schuyler Larrabee
One thing I've done to try to extend the life of Scalecoat 1 in the past is, when I'm ready to close
up the bottle, dropper some fresh thinner on top of the paint, and then store it without shaking it. It just goes on a shelf and sits there until next time, and I've had good luck with that. SGL Disagree all you like, I was sharing my experiences. Now there is also the possibility thathumidity levels could be factor in this as well.bottle and that a custom painter I know in Winnipeg as also urged me to follow that procedure.wrote: unused thinned paint to return into the bottle of "fresh" paint.Even if the bottle is well sealed. E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12650 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
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Re: Freight car maintenance
Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
The following freight car maintenance issues I believe to underly predictable, reliable operations of how a freight car actually will play its part in a functioning TRAIN on the layout, while continuing to aspire to being a prototype model. In this regard, couplers and wheels are inextricably linked together, and if one can get these issues under control right from the git-go, other problems will seem much easier to solve.
COUPLER INTEGRITY: If a coupler does not lie in a level horizontal plane, and/or when two couplers meet that are not in matching vertical and horizontal planes, routine coupling simply will not work reliably, and unexpected uncouplings can and will be a common event, especially over vertical curves and irregular trackwork. Vertical plane: a) Probably the most common problem lies in the excessive side play of so many (most?) axles, where the shifting truck frame shunts the carbody out of alignment to one side or another, at the same time compounding the problem by rolling the car slightly out of vertical in each direction. b) This matter is even more insidiously promoted by the fact that so many of the common disparately-wide truck bolster center holes are fastened through with small 2-56 screws in such a way that the truck drunkenly punts itself freely back and forth on its own. Just these two issues alone can cause any two cars at any given instance not to ever couple, even with the widest available coupler gathering-range. c) Coupler box center posts are not in straight alignment with body bolster holes- more common than you might think. The Accumate Proto couplers present a special challenge, i.e. making absolutely certain that the TWO screws holding each coupler box are respectively exactly on the same alignment with reference to each other, and that that alignment includes the centers of both body bolster holes. d) The scale sized couplers inherently have a much reduced gathering range, so in routine operations, more difficulty in routine coupling can be expected if accurate vertical alignment has not been attained. Horizontal Plane: a) The biggest culprit is the widespread habit of adjusting "coupler height" [sic.] by merely adjusting the curve or clearance of the magnetic glad hand, regardless of what it does or does not do to the proper height and alignment of the coupler head itself. Use a gauge that allows one to ensure a steady height to the HEAD alone, and THEN, and only then adjust the magnetic glad hand, if you must. b) Coupler droop: This is the true rotten apple in the barrel, and in my experience this single insidious issue also has provoked the greatest damage over the years. Kadee-pattern couplers are designed to fit into a dog's breakfast of coupler boxes of vague commonly- accepted dimensions, all of which allow considerable vertical clearance/slop to the coupler shank. This looseness results in considerable coupler droop, some much more than others, considering internal box dimensions, coupler shank thickness, length of shank, weight of head, the presence or absence of the thickness of a coupler spring. Apropos of a preceding discussion of long vs. short couplers, the downward leverage exerted by the heads of long shank couplers, large or scale only makes this situation worse, compounded by the long shank too often dropping the magnetic glad hand right down where it can snag the very next closure rail. If coupler heads are kept level and in alignment, the common problems of coupler overriding are minimized to being actually eliminated. The only coupler systems to date to specifically address this issue are the Accumate Protos and the Sergeants (which have shanks engineered to tightly fit the Accumate Proto box). These latter couplers are absolutely level and have no droop. Other factors or issues, to a great extent inextricable from the above: 1) Metal wheels. 2) Metal wheels 3) Axle/wheel quality in custom-fitted lengths that allow free rollability. Allows the make up of trains that both look and function like *trains*. 4) Axle lengths that minimize lateral endplay (quite often the choice of 2 and 3 necessitates compromise). See a) above. 5) Tight bolster screws. These too often work their way on their own accord (right now I am attempting to discover which boxcar on the layout belongs to a bolster screw just discovered between the rails on a main track). I have taken to dipping the screw end in Barge Cement so that the cement's "rubbery fingers" will at least hold the screw in place, yet with still sufficient clearance to allow the necessary truck movement to keep the car on the track. In 2006, for two months I ran a demonstration 131 car train made up of a truly disparate group of substantial freight cars, ranging from Westerfield to several Varney cars from the 30s. The train ran over a layout with considerable variance in terrain and routing without scarcely a single coupling or truck wheel failure (including a movement in reverse) during that time, the single most reason for which was the meticulous vetting of coupler head alignment and height (as above) of each and every car ahead of time. Enough for today- Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento
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Re: Well, that's . . . odd
Earl T. Hackett <hacketet@...>
Many lacquers are formulated with what are called 'drying oils.' These are oils that polymerize on exposure to oxygen. Linseed oil is the most well known, but there are several others. Every time you open the bottle you let some oxygen in and eventually you will cause the oil to polymerize, making the paint into a gel. If you seal the bottle well you can extend the life of the paint significantly. I know one individual who squirts some nitrogen into the bottle just as he's capping it, but even those precautions will not prevent it from gelling eventually.
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As for acrylic paints, they are a very different animal. They consist of small droplets of paint suspended in water. There is a careful balance of surfactants in the water to keep the particles from coalescing (sticking together). When you dilute an acrylic, you upset this balance and the particles start to stick when they bump into each other. During a painting session you won't notice any change, but let the paint sit for a couple of days and you'll find all the solids glopped on the bottom of the jar. Most manufacturers sell a thinner for their acrylics that has the proper balance of solvents and surfactants. There's no guarantee, but you will have a much better chance of not messing up a bottle of paint if you use the recommended thinner. Otherwise, just thin what you need and toss the left overs.
--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
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Re: Well, that's . . . odd
pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
Disagree all you like, I was sharing my experiences. Now there is also the possibility that humidity levels could be factor in this as well.
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I do know that Scalecoat strongly recommends not to return thinned paint back to the original bottle and that a custom painter I know in Winnipeg as also urged me to follow that procedure. Pierre Oliver
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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Re: Well, that's . . . odd
Schuyler Larrabee
Tim, thanks for the reply.
What do you mean, "flat" lacquer? You mean a lacquer based flat coat?Right, I know that. Actually, the "vehicle," not the thinner. When it evaporates, the other substance can gel. I've lost many paints to this -- in all casesThe top was tight, I'm fairly obsessive about that. A nice pair of crescent pliers are on the painting booth Do you mean that it solidified instantly when you inserted the tubeYes. Are you sure it wasn't already jelled? Yes, it shook up just fine. I had to shake it for QUITE some time, as the solids (the flatting agent) was settled in the bottom of the bottle big time. I've only seen "instant gel" form when combining incompatible liquids, likeWell, I suppose that's possible. I had not been painting before this episode. I was cranking everything up just to apply the flat coat. IF, that's IF, the contamination came from the tube, it was thoroughly dry. Do you (plural for the list) have separate tubes (and airbrushes?) for acrylic vs. solvent based paint? SGL well, sort of crystallized. Not truly into a solid mass, but it kind of jelled or something. I pitched E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12650 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
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Re: Well, that's . . . odd
Schuyler Larrabee
Pierre, I agree with Tim's response on this.
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SGL
-----Original Message-----thinned paint to return into the bottle of "fresh" paint.well, yearssort of crystallized. Not truly into a solid mass, but it kind of jelled or something. I pitched <http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/>ago. I've used it let down by half with quality lacquer thinner, so it's lasted me a very long <http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12650 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
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Intermountain P&WV PS-1 boxcar review solicited
jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
I was looking at the Intermountain web site, and saw a P&WV PS-1 boxcar product offering in boxcar red paint with the "Symbol of Service" slogan.
How accurate is this Intermountain car for the P&WV? Why hasn't Kadee done this car? Did P&WV have a PS-1 variation?
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Re: Well, that's . . . odd
Pierre
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I totally disagree with that statement. I have a couple dozen opened bottles of Scalecoat and I routinely put thinned paint back in the bottle. They only gel when the cap is not airtight. Floquil bottles seem to have the best airtight seals. I have found that your statement is correct when it comes to acrylic paints. It's best to toss out the thinned paint while exposing the original bottle to as little air as possible by opening it only briefly to remove some. Tim O'Connor
Schulyer,
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Re: Well, that's . . . odd
What do you mean, "flat" lacquer? You mean a lacquer based flat coat?
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The lacquer in that case is just the thinner. When it evaporates, the other substance can gel. I've lost many paints to this -- in all cases because the cap is not airtight. Do you mean that it solidified instantly when you inserted the tube into the bottle? Are you sure it wasn't already jelled? I've only seen "instant gel" form when combining incompatible liquids, like acrylic with something that it reacts to chemically. Maybe your tube was contaminated? Tim O'Connor
Not long ago, I went to use some flat lacquer I have used with great success in the past. When I
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Re: Well, that's . . . odd
pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
Schulyer,
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What you've described is exactly what happens to Scalecoat paints if you allow thinner or unused thinned paint to return into the bottle of "fresh" paint. Even if the bottle is well sealed. Pierre Oliver
--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
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Re: Kadee 158s and scale appearing coupler boxes
Andy
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They are very nice looking but are not scale width. I have used many of them. The Accurail Proto:HO box was patterned after them -- at least, Byron thought so. Later, Sunshine created a similar pattern for some of his kits. Tim O.
Many of us reading these posts remember our good friend Byron Rose, the RPA of Pittsburgh Scale Models, who offers arguably the best looking scale width coupler box in HO, manufactured in polyurethane resin. They are priced quite reasonable, and I think he sells them in packs of 5 pairs.
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Well, that's . . . odd
Schuyler Larrabee
I am sure that there are many on this list with vastly more experience with paints than I . . .
Not long ago, I went to use some flat lacquer I have used with great success in the past. When I put the snorkel (or whatever that tube-in-the-cap is called) into the bottle, the lacquer, uh, well, sort of crystallized. Not truly into a solid mass, but it kind of jelled or something. I pitched the bottle and gave the snorkel a very serious cleaning. Does lacquer ever go bad? I've had this stuff a very long time, having bought a gallon of it years ago. I've used it let down by half with quality lacquer thinner, so it's lasted me a very long time. I have sold off some of it in small cans to other modelers who've expressed that they were happy with it. And I've never had any bad interaction show up after years of exposure. I'd buy more if it just needs to be fresh. Thoughts? SGL La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce! E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12650 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
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Kadee 158s and scale appearing coupler boxes
Andy Carlson
Many of us reading these posts remember our good friend Byron Rose, the RPA of Pittsburgh Scale Models, who offers arguably the best looking scale width coupler box in HO, manufactured in polyurethane resin. They are priced quite reasonable, and I think he sells them in packs of 5 pairs.
-Andy Carlson Ojai CA ________________________________ From: Tim O'Connor Dennis I agree your Proto:HO coupler box looks great. I only wish it were molded in polystyrene. It's not easy to work with and mounting with screws is sometimes not possible.
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Re: Freight car maintenance
Schuyler Larrabee
What are some the suggested routine (scheduled) maintenance practices for freight cars.? Some ofmy older cars are not as freewheeling as they once were, couplers are not as reliable, etc. I thought this might leadto the sharing of some ideas that would help prevent poor operation, especially when company comes. Armand PremoArmand, the number one issue we have at my model railroad club, where maintenance happens when something doesn't work right (and not before), is dirty wheels. FWIW, my number one answer is to make sure that the trucks have metal wheels. Plastic wheels are, as has been established on this list and others, attract crud and gunk, and become, eventually, flangeless. Obviously they derail. We've not had tremendous troubles with couplers, which are almost universally Kadees. The most common problem is a missing knuckle spring. A lack of centering action can generally be traced back to the original owner and their attention to installation tolerances. Many people don't understand how critical that is to successful operation. (Sergeant operators can stop snickering now, please.) We keep the gladhands and use them for magnetic uncoupling. We've not suffered much trouble with 58s of any variety vs. 5s. The other issue we see is the truck screws seem to work themselves loose (and I'm not even going to discuss cars where the trucks are "held on" by friction-fit plastic pins). This leads to cars that rock, and that leads to coupling issues, mostly break-in-twos. Others?? What do you have to say? SGL E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12650 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
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Freight car maintenance
Armand Premo
What are some the suggested routine (scheduled) maintenance practices for freight cars.? Some of my older cars are not as free wheeling as they once were,couplers are not as reliable,etc.I thought this might lead to the sharing of some ideas that would help prevent poor operation, especially when company comes.Armand Premo
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Re: Kadee 158s
Dennis I agree your Proto:HO coupler box looks great. I only
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wish it were molded in polystyrene. It's not easy to work with and mounting with screws is sometimes not possible. Tim O'Connor
I thought the general thrust of this list was to more correctly model the prototype. Shouldn't one endeavor to also correctly model the space between the cars?
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Re: Kadee 158s
Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
I thought the general thrust of this list was to more correctly model the prototype. Shouldn't one endeavor to also correctly model the space between the cars? I might point out that NONE of the current Kadee products correctly models the width of the center sill at the place we see, the end where the drawbar protrudes. I say center sill because keep in mind that the prototype doesn't use a "box", the draft gear fits between the sills, which run continuous from one end of the car to the other. The Accumate PROTO:HO coupler box allows properly modeling this appearance of continuous sills; if the rest of the model is correctly scaled, the boxes look like the center sills protruding past the bolster. The Accumate PROTO:HO coupler heads are the general shape and bulk of the AAR Type E, and if mounted with the end of the box at the prototype striker location, place the cars a scale distance apart. Since the Switchman tool used to uncouple these is used in a vertical orientation, this is plenty of room to uncouple cars. The Accumate PROTO:HO couple will mate with and couple too all the various other magnetic couplers (Kadee and clones) so transition can be gradual. Frank Sergent has chosen to tool an exact scale working knuckle coupler that fits our box, and so has all the advantages of a scale appearing draft gear mounting with an even more realistic coupler head. The mounting is completely interchangeable with the PROTO:HO Accumate, so cars can easily be made Kadee compatible again if need be. The Sergent uncoupling tool is also used in a vertical orientation, so the scale distance between cars is not problem. Sergent also has several other products that make gradual conversion easy; working couplers with oversize shanks that fit the common "5&10" style box, and inexpensive dummy couplers that fit the same box. Unlike dummy couplers intended to mate with Kadees, however, the "Glatzl" dummy couplers sold by Sergent will couple and uncouple automatically with a Sergent working knuckle. Just like the prototype, it only takes one open knuckle to couple and uncouple. Dennis Storzek Accurail, Inc.
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off list request
Westerfield <westerfield@...>
My wife is on a number of geneology lists. On one there was the request below regarding B&M repair facilities. We've sent her the weigh stations but that's all we know. If anyone with information would like to reply, the address is: bbffrrpp@...
- Al Westerfield Hello, Since the 1980's I have been interested in learning more about "Iron Horse Park" in Billerica, which is where the "repair shops" and "roundhouse" were built for the "Boston & Maine Railroad." Every couple of years I try, again, to find out if anyone has ever written a document, or booklet, on the "repair shops" in New England, and I'm always told that none exist that they know of. The other important one, I've read, was in Concord, NH. Yesterday, I got looking on-line again, and I --still-- can't find anything important about the history of the "repair shops." About 5-6 years ago I wrote to the "Boston & Maine Railroad Historical Society" in Lowell, MA, and asked if any article on the "repair shops" had ever been published in their magazine. I was told, No. So, yesterday, I e-mailed their archivist, and received a response this morning - still no article ! But, the member of the Society said that he thought the "repair shops" were built ~1911. * I thought I had read before that they were built in the late 1800's, but I have no memory of where I read that. Yesterday I rechecked the "history of Billerica" which was published in 1883. There is no mention of the "repair shops." It only has a brief mention of the "Boston & Lowell Railroad" starting up in 1835. * So, I was wondering if anyone can make suggestions of which libraries or societies I can write slow-mail letters to -- asking for information on the "repair shops" in New England. Betty (near Lowell, MA)
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Re: UTLX Leasing Practices
Cyril Durrenberger
In most cases, at least in Texas, he pattern seems to have been that after an oil producing field was developed, for the first year or two the crude was shipped by tank car. Then if there was enough production, a pipeline was built. But it took time to lay the pipeline.
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In some cases refineries were built near the oil production field. The book "Early Texas Oil" is a good reference and shows many photos. There are many photos showing crude being loaded into tank cars for shipment to the refinery. Based on traffic data that I have studied for the earlier fields this pattern is clear, even though out of the time period being here. So it was necessary to lease tank car to ship the crude for a short time period, but did the companies would not likely want to purchase the cars. Certainly the time period would not allow the purchase of new equipment. In the case of Humble, Texas, discovered in 1904 (I know this is too early for 99% of you) they had a large number of private owner tank car mileage during the early years that fdecreased after the peak in abut 1906. The field was serviced only by the HW&WT and that was the only oil production field of significance on the railroad. The traffic statistics show a large increase in crude shipments, but that then dropped significantly. However, the tonnage of crude shipped for the next decade or so was larger amount than before the discovery of the oil field. During the early days, the mileage would vary from private owner to private owner, and there was no clear pattern. One year it would be large for one company, then large for another one the next year, etc. One interesting thing is that there was much mileage for the Merchants and Planters Oil Company who made cottonseed oil. The mileage was far greater than the capacity to make cottonseed oil or the tonnage of cottonseed oil shipped. All of this is from memory and all of my data are back in Austin, Texas. If anyone is interested, I can provide more specific information after I return to Texas in late August (we are in Minnesota). Cyril Durrenberger
--- On Sun, 6/21/09, FRANK PEACOCK <frank3112@...> wrote:
From: FRANK PEACOCK <frank3112@...> Subject: [STMFC] UTLX Leasing Practices To: stmfc@... Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 6:01 AM Thanks for the replies. I admit that it has been almost four years since I've read JDR's Secret Weapon by Carr. He is good on UTL's origins, but less good on the time period most of us are modeling. For example, what % of UTC's traffic came from the former Standard Companies in the forties and what % came from "outside"? Carr does say (p.207f) that UTC started looking for customers outside the former Standard Companies well before WWII, somewhere around the late 'twenties. I suppose that UTC(changed from UTL in June 1919) realized that being the "secret weapon" was good when the guys using you controlled 95% of the market, not so good when that percent went to 60% and falling. Spindletop (1901) changed everything. It took a few years but upstarts like the Texas Co., Gulf, Sun, Phillips, Skelly, etc. began eroding the former Standard Companies' market share. Back to the original question: how did the T&P Ry. move all the extra crude out of the Permian Basin 1947/48? I suspect that due to the size of the two major tank car companies, UTLX with 38814 and GATX with 37428 cars (10/47 ORER) they were the primary sources. Depending on assumptions I figure that it would take several thousand cars to cover this movement. FHP(Frank H. Peacock) ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive. com/Tutorial/ Hotmail/QuickAdd ?ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ HM_Tutorial_ QuickAdd_ 062009 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: HO Freight cars, parts, decals and trucks for sale
Dennis Williams
I tried to respond off line. Would not let me. What do you have in sunshine models?? Thanks, Dennis
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--- On Sat, 6/20/09, Rob Adams <steamera@...> wrote:
From: Rob Adams <steamera@...> Subject: [STMFC] HO Freight cars, parts, decals and trucks for sale To: "Steam Freight Cars Group" <STMFC@...> Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 7:36 PM Due to a switch of scales to O, I have a bunch of HO freight car kits, trucks, parts and decals available. Included are many resin and craftsman kits, some built-up cars and a bunch of odds and ends. Please contact me directly at steamera@netins. net if you would like me to send you a copy of the list. I will be away part of the day tomorrow visiting family for Father's Day, but will respond as promptly as possible. Thanks for your interest. Kind regards, Rob Adams Wellman, IA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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