Date   

Re: Prototype for C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:


Steve Hoxie writes:

I have a C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar with 1/3/4 Improved Dreadnaught
ends for which I would like to find a prototype. The model has fishbelly
sidesills and staggered doors. I have had the car in service for a while and
need to upgrade it. It is factory painted MP, but the rectangular rib on
the end spoils it for MoPac.

Any help in finding a good paint and lettering scheme for this car would
be much appreciated. A link to a photo would be great.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola <

Steve,

One thing you didn't mention was the door opening, are they 12-foot or
14-foot? I have one stashed but not easily found.

Seems to me that the Wabash had some with 4/3/R ends and diagonal panel
roofs, but not a fishbelly side sill, perhaps Chet French can chime in here.




The Wabash did have 300 cars in the 8000 - 8299 series that had the ends and roof that you mention. They had a straight side sill between the bolsters. The door opening was about an inch less than
12 feet though.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Prototype for C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar

pennsylvania1954
 

Ed, Greg--Thanks for jumping in. I knew the MP cars had 15 foot doors. That was one thing I thought I might upgrade on the model's 14 ft doors if everything else was ok, which it isn't. The model also has a rectangular panel roof, which I think is odd with the 1/3/4 ends. I suspect you are correct about this being an unrealistic concoction.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:


Steve Hoxie writes:

I have a C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar with 1/3/4 Improved Dreadnaught
ends for which I would like to find a prototype. The model has fishbelly
sidesills and staggered doors. I have had the car in service for a while and
need to upgrade it. It is factory painted MP, but the rectangular rib on
the end spoils it for MoPac.

Any help in finding a good paint and lettering scheme for this car would
be much appreciated. A link to a photo would be great.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola <

Steve,

One thing you didn't mention was the door opening, are they 12-foot or
14-foot? I have one stashed but not easily found.

Seems to me that the Wabash had some with 4/3/R ends and diagonal panel
roofs, but not a fishbelly side sill, perhaps Chet French can chime in here.

Greg Martin


**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
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eExcfooterNO62)




Re: Prototype for C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 22, 2009, at 11:39 PM, pennsylvania1954 wrote:

I have a C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar with 1/3/4 Improved
Dreadnaught ends for which I would like to find a prototype. The model
has fishbelly sidesills and staggered doors. I have had the car in
service for a while and need to upgrade it. It is factory painted MP,
but the rectangular rib on the end spoils it for MoPac.

Any help in finding a good paint and lettering scheme for this car
would be much appreciated. A link to a photo would be great.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
Steve,
MoPac's 40' all-steel auto cars also had a 15' door opening, whereas
the model has a 14' doorway. I'm pretty sure the model you have was one
of C&BT's "mix and match" concoctions that never existed on a prototype
car.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Prototype for C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar

pennsylvania1954
 

I have a C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar with 1/3/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends for which I would like to find a prototype. The model has fishbelly sidesills and staggered doors. I have had the car in service for a while and need to upgrade it. It is factory painted MP, but the rectangular rib on the end spoils it for MoPac.

Any help in finding a good paint and lettering scheme for this car would be much appreciated. A link to a photo would be great.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Prototype for C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar

Greg Martin
 

Steve Hoxie writes:

I have a C&BT 40 foot double door boxcar with 1/3/4 Improved Dreadnaught
ends for which I would like to find a prototype. The model has fishbelly
sidesills and staggered doors. I have had the car in service for a while and
need to upgrade it. It is factory painted MP, but the rectangular rib on
the end spoils it for MoPac.

Any help in finding a good paint and lettering scheme for this car would
be much appreciated. A link to a photo would be great.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola <

Steve,

One thing you didn't mention was the door opening, are they 12-foot or
14-foot? I have one stashed but not easily found.

Seems to me that the Wabash had some with 4/3/R ends and diagonal panel
roofs, but not a fishbelly side sill, perhaps Chet French can chime in here.

Greg Martin


**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377052x1201454391/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun
eExcfooterNO62)


Re: Intermountain P&WV PS-1 boxcar review solicited

rwitt_2000
 

Larry Kline wrote:

There are a number of P&WV boxcar photos on the HiLine web site. The
link is:
http://www.thepwvhiline.com/PWVACFBoxCars/index.html
snip<

The Pullman builders 3/4 view photo of car 1310 on the HiLine web site
appears to show that the P&WV PS-1s were delivered in boxcar red with
black ends.

The caption on the web site states that number 1310 was the only car in
the series painted with black ends.

"P&WV 1310 PS1 delivered new 11/48. Red car black ends, white reporting
marks. This is the only car we have a record of having this paint style.
Location unknown. 11/48"

I can't be sure of the accuracy of their statement, but it may have been
a test P&L scheme.

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana


Intermountain P&WV PS-1 boxcar review solicited

Larry Kline
 

There are a number of P&WV boxcar photos on the HiLine web site. The
link is:
http://www.thepwvhiline.com/PWVACFBoxCars/index.html

There is a color photo showing ACF built postwar AAR boxcar 1236 in
boxcar red with the *Symbol of service* slogan. However this photo is
a colorized B&W photo. I have not seen a color photo of a P&WV boxcar
painted boxcar red with the slogan.

The Pullman builders 3/4 view photo of car 1310 on the HiLine web site
appears to show that the P&WV PS-1s were delivered in boxcar red with
black ends. The P&WV book by Whorley and Poellot says that the Symbol
of service was first used in 1951. The earliest boxcar photo that I
have with the slogan has a reweigh date of 4-1954. The HiLine web site
says that Almost all cars shopped after 1956 were painted gloss black
with white logo, reporting marks and company slogan. The photo of PS-1
1348 on the HiLine web site is a color photo that appeared in the July
1997 Railmodel Journal. The photo date and location given are Dallas,
TX and August 18, 1961.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

Jim Mischke wrote:
I was looking at the Intermountain web site, and saw a P&WV PS-1
boxcar product offering in boxcar red paint with the "Symbol of
Service" slogan.

How accurate is this Intermountain car for the P&WV?


Re: Intermountain P&WV PS-1 boxcar review solicited

jerryglow2
 

Removing the extra "bowtie" off the end panels isn't that difficult. We've had to do so constructing variations of C&NW riveted side PS-1s.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:

Jim,

Tim is correct that the P&WV PS-1 40-foot boxcar was indeed the earlier variation of the car. I did an article (Mont Switzer inspired "save-paint")?of the car for MM using the Con Cor car per-painted and lettered for the P&WV although the car was a compromise as the Con Cor car does/did represent the later style PS-1 car. The car could be correctly modeled with the old McKeen PS-1 car with the 6-foot door (no longer available, but I do have at least one rat-holed) however the McKeen underframe is a mess and would need work. The?current offering of PS-1 cars from KADEE or Intermountain do not offer the earlier roof and?underframe; however the ACCURAIL car is offered with the correct roof, I have never really looked at the underframe and the door is 8-foot, so it is a possible bash. The 8-foot door could be?corrected as I did with the Con Cor car.
?
Greg Martin


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2009 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Intermountain P&WV PS-1 boxcar review solicited








Did P&WV have a PS-1 variation?
Jim

Yes, but they were the 1948 version of the PS-1. Different
underframe, roof, doors, and ends. Intermountain's model is
the post-1953 version. Greg Martin wrote a kitbash article
in Mainline Modeler, September 1993.

Tim O.








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: tank car decals

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 22, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

....In the images
I have of Associated cars, with AOX reporting marks, they are all
black cars without the "Flying A" emblem. There were a number of TIDX
cars which appear to be aluminum color, also with no emblems. In my
collection, the "Flying A" emblems are all on Tidewater cars, TWOX
reporting marks, but NONE of them have the circle emblem, which is why
I'd really like to see the photos you mention.








I have several photos of AOX cars from the 1940s and '50s with either
"ASSOCIATED" or (later) "TIDEWATER" directly above the reporting
marks and numbers and no emblems. However, I also have two photos
from the 1960s with "TIDEWATER" above the reporting marks and numbers
and winged "A" emblems on the sides of the tank to the right of the
dome. One, AOX 819, was an 8K gal. GATC Type 30 at Petaluma CA in
8/64; the other, AOX 1152, was a 10K gal. GATC car built in the
mid-1920s (but before the 1926 underframe change) with a horizontal
three course tank. I also have a W. C. Whittaker photo of AOX 915, a
6K. gal AC&F Type 11, at Banks, OR in 7/69 with Capitalized lower
case "Tidewater" above the reporting marks and numbers and the
smaller flying "A" emblems inside circles. The car was no longer in
revenue service but the stenciling appears to have been authentic. I
can send scans of any or all of these photos if you'd like.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: tank car decals

Tim O'Connor
 

I have a scan of TWOX 979, a radial course single dome tank car
with a large white Flying A emblem (with thin black lines to mark
the feather edges). There is no date on the scan (it's from Ebay)
but it's a color shot, very likely postwar to 1960's. The TWOX
reporting marks and data markings are all yellow (like UTLX) but
the name Tidewater and the emblem are white. I think it's one
of Charles Houser's Ebay scans.

Tim O'Connor

At 6/22/2009 11:25 AM Monday, you wrote:
Tony, As I recall, the Microscale Associated Oil Company decals are printed in red for use on filling stations. In the few pictures of Associated Oil tank cars that I have seen, the lettering appears to be white on a black car, or black on a light-colored car. The light-colored cars, which seem to be "earlier," do not have the "flying A" emblem on them. The "later," black, cars do carry the emblem but it is the "flying A" enclosed in a circle. There are no words on the emblem.

To complicate what I said about paint schemes, a photo of an Associated Oil tank car, painted black with white lettering, appeared in an Oil and Gas Journal, about 1921. The car does not have the "flying A" emblem on it.

Lars.


Re: Intermountain P&WV PS-1 boxcar review solicited

rwitt_2000
 

I found this web page with both builder and in-service photos. Photo two
is a nice view of the early PS-1 end.

http://www.thepwvhiline.com/HistoricEraImagesJan2006Pa/index.html

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:

Jim,

Tim is correct that the P&WV PS-1 40-foot boxcar was indeed the
earlier variation of the car. I did an article (Mont Switzer inspired
"save-paint")?of the car for MM using the Con Cor car per-painted and
lettered for the P&WV although the car was a compromise as the Con Cor
car does/did represent the later style PS-1 car. The car could be
correctly modeled with the old McKeen PS-1 car with the 6-foot door (no
longer available, but I do have at least one rat-holed) however the
McKeen underframe is a mess and would need work. The?current offering of
PS-1 cars from KADEE or Intermountain do not offer the earlier roof
and?underframe; however the ACCURAIL car is offered with the correct
roof, I have never really looked at the underframe and the door is
8-foot, so it is a possible bash. The 8-foot door could be?corrected as
I did with the Con Cor car.
?
Greg Martin


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2009 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Intermountain P&WV PS-1 boxcar review solicited








Did P&WV have a PS-1 variation?
Jim

Yes, but they were the 1948 version of the PS-1. Different
underframe, roof, doors, and ends. Intermountain's model is
the post-1953 version. Greg Martin wrote a kitbash article
in Mainline Modeler, September 1993.

Tim O.


Re: Intermountain P&WV PS-1 boxcar review solicited

Greg Martin
 

Jim,

Tim is correct that the P&WV PS-1 40-foot boxcar was indeed the earlier variation of the car. I did an article (Mont Switzer inspired "save-paint")?of the car for MM using the Con Cor car per-painted and lettered for the P&WV although the car was a compromise as the Con Cor car does/did represent the later style PS-1 car. The car could be correctly modeled with the old McKeen PS-1 car with the 6-foot door (no longer available, but I do have at least one rat-holed) however the McKeen underframe is a mess and would need work. The?current offering of PS-1 cars from KADEE or Intermountain do not offer the earlier roof and?underframe; however the ACCURAIL car is offered with the correct roof, I have never really looked at the underframe and the door is 8-foot, so it is a possible bash. The 8-foot door could be?corrected as I did with the Con Cor car.
?
Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2009 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Intermountain P&WV PS-1 boxcar review solicited








Did P&WV have a PS-1 variation?
Jim

Yes, but they were the 1948 version of the PS-1. Different
underframe, roof, doors, and ends. Intermountain's model is
the post-1953 version. Greg Martin wrote a kitbash article
in Mainline Modeler, September 1993.

Tim O.


Re: tank car decals

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lars Svanevik wrote:
Tony, As I recall, the Microscale Associated Oil Company decals are printed in red for use on filling stations.
Yes, it was one of several Microscale sets intended for gas station modeling. It's discontinued in any case.

In the few pictures of Associated Oil tank cars that I have seen, the lettering appears to be white on a black car, or black on a light-colored car. The light-colored cars, which seem to be "earlier," do not have the "flying A" emblem on them. The "later," black, cars do carry the emblem but it is the "flying A" enclosed in a circle. There are no words on the emblem.
I'd be interested to see copies of those photos. In the images I have of Associated cars, with AOX reporting marks, they are all black cars without the "Flying A" emblem. There were a number of TIDX cars which appear to be aluminum color, also with no emblems. In my collection, the "Flying A" emblems are all on Tidewater cars, TWOX reporting marks, but NONE of them have the circle emblem, which is why I'd really like to see the photos you mention.
To clarify for those without a hymnal, Tidewater Associated Oil Company was formed in 1938 to merge J. Paul Getty's Associated (a California company formed in 1901 and acquired by Getty in the 1920s) with Tidewater (then partially controlled by Standard of New Jersey). The "Flying A" brand of Associated was used for the entire company. By 1947 the company owned 1579 tank cars.

To complicate what I said about paint schemes, a photo of an Associated Oil tank car, painted black with white lettering, appeared in an Oil and Gas Journal, about 1921. The car does not have the "flying A" emblem on it.
Yes, certainly in the teens and twenties photos show the plain black AOX cars. The "Flying A" emblem was not introduced in Associated marketing until 1932.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Kadee 158s and scale appearing coupler boxes

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


But Dennis, you make polystyrene coupler box covers for
most of your kits, and nearly every other manufacturer
does the same thing.
So? We want to do better.

If the hobby isn't up in arms about
the boxes falling apart, don't you think that the glue
must be working? (Yes, I've had a couple dozen failures
over the years. I glue them back together.)

Tim,

The Accumate box does more than just hold the coupler to the car, it also has to hold the parts in line. In our initial destructive testing of the full size Accumate, the common failure mode was to have the two shanks spread so far that the interlocking peg would come out of its mating recess and jam the shanks against the coupler box cover, which had to bend down to allow this to happen. The acetal coupler moldings would normally survive intact, and would work again when manually returned to centered. But, if the lid had taken a set, the couplers became more prone to doing this a second time.

Our full size coupler box covers are .044" thick, on average. In order to put the PROTO:HO parts in a box that fits within the outline of the prototype, the box needs to be .020" A quick look at typical physical properties of high impact polystyrene vs. acetal shows that acetal is two to three times stronger, stiffer, and more break resistant (less notch sensitive). If these were appearance parts on static models would be one thing, but they are not. People expect to run these in thirty or fifty car trains, and the occasional "oopsie" when a locomotive hits a standing train at a scale 50 MPH is a fact of life that people expect things to survive without suffering damage. The fact that the parts must be installed with screws just reinforces the fact that we INTEND the parts to be installed with screws, for the sake of durability. I'm satisfied that we are providing parts made of the material that is best suited to the purpose.

Dennis


Re: Freight car maintenance

Joseph Lofland
 

Well, if you cars use a card system, and the cars go into a yard to be
classified, make the rip track part of the move every once in a while. Do
the maintance then....clean wheels , check coupler height, etc etc. Do it
for all your rolling stock. Then everything goes through maintance. If
things need fixed, replaced, you will have a means/ system to take care of
all of it.

Joe Lofland
JJLModels

On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:25 PM, armprem1 <armprem2@...> wrote:



What are some the suggested routine (scheduled) maintenance practices for
freight cars.? Some of my older cars are not as free wheeling as they once
were,couplers are not as reliable,etc.I thought this might lead to the
sharing of some ideas that would help prevent poor operation, especially
when company comes.Armand Premo



Re: tank car decals

Lars Svanevik <svanevil@...>
 

Tony, As I recall, the Microscale Associated Oil Company decals are printed in red for use on filling stations. In the few pictures of Associated Oil tank cars that I have seen, the lettering appears to be white on a black car, or black on a light-colored car. The light-colored cars, which seem to be "earlier," do not have the "flying A" emblem on them. The "later," black, cars do carry the emblem but it is the "flying A" enclosed in a circle. There are no words on the emblem.

To complicate what I said about paint schemes, a photo of an Associated Oil tank car, painted black with white lettering, appeared in an Oil and Gas Journal, about 1921. The car does not have the "flying A" emblem on it.

Lars.

________________________________

From: STMFC@... on behalf of Anthony Thompson
Sent: Sat 6/20/2009 10:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Cc: Ted Culotta
Subject: [STMFC] tank car decals





Gentlemen:
I recently did a search to see if anyone makes the "Flying A"
emblem for Associated Oil Company, later also used by Tidewater
Associated, in HO scale. I did not find any, although Microscale makes
an O scale decal for filling stations. I will proceed to make artwork
for all the tank car lettering, and arrange production, which is
mostly for my own needs, but if there are others out there interested
in such decals, let me know. I will be happy to share them at cost.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... <mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Well, that's . . . odd

rwitt_2000
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

<snip> I have a couple dozen opened bottles of Scalecoat and I routinely
put thinned paint back in the bottle. They only gel when the cap is not
airtight. Floquil bottles seem to have the best airtight seals.

and Aidrain Bridgeman wrote:

"Once a can of POR-15 is opened you have to use it all in the same
session, but if you add a whiff of propane to the top of the can before
you seal it it prolongs the shelf life so that the contents are still
liquid several weeks later."

I am missing something because doesn't the old trick of storing the
paint containers upside down still make an "air-tight" seal; although it
cannot prevent air from entering the container upon opening.

Replacing the "air" with an inert gas such as nitrogen would probably
work better than propane.

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana


Re: Well, that's . . . odd regarding Scalecoat Paint

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

At one time small cans of nitrogen (or other inert gas) were sold to shoot a little in before the lid was closed. This was supposed to eliminate the oxygen but not sure this stuff is still available.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Kadee 158s and scale appearing coupler boxes

Tim O'Connor
 

But Dennis, you make polystyrene coupler box covers for
most of your kits, and nearly every other manufacturer
does the same thing. If the hobby isn't up in arms about
the boxes falling apart, don't you think that the glue
must be working? (Yes, I've had a couple dozen failures
over the years. I glue them back together.) Athearn has
been using stupid metal clips that are notorious for
coming off -- and they switched to polystyrene for their
more recent models.

Tim O'Connor

Tim, we need the strength and low friction properties of an engineering resin to ensure that our tiny little couplers are robust enough to stand up to the rigors of service. If we made the boxes from styrene, people would try to use only glue to attach them, and the couplers would knock the covers off during hard couplings. Then everyone would complain that they were "no good", because they "always" fail. Form has to follow function, not wishful thinking.
Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.


Re: Kadee 158s and scale appearing coupler boxes

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

Many of us reading these posts remember our good friend Byron Rose, the RPA of Pittsburgh Scale Models, who offers arguably the best looking scale width coupler box in HO, manufactured in polyurethane resin. They are priced quite reasonable, and I think he sells them in packs of 5 pairs.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Just to give credit where credit is due, the idea if modeling the coupler yoke and draft stops in relief IS directly copied from Byron's part, with his permission. Someone showed me his resin boxes just about the time we were building a new mold for brake details / coupler box covers that would used for all our boxcars. I had never given much thought to the detailing of the coupler covers, simply placing our tradename there as many other manufacturers did, because the part was overly wide, and therefore not really a model of anything. Byron's part convinced me that the detailing looked pretty good, even if it was not to scale, so I contacted the RPA and asked if he'd have a problem with us doing something similar in our kits. Byron's response was go right ahead, that he had done the parts to show manufacturers what was possible.

It also sowed the seeds of an idea to design a coupler that could make use of a box that was the same width of a scale center sill, so that the detailing on the under surface of the box would be to scale. This we subsequently did with the PROTO:HO Accumate.

Since that time, I've designed new models to use EITHER box equally well; the narrow box can be substituted easily on both the gon and triple hopper. However, I haven't invested the toolmaking time to add that detail to the wide boxes; if you want a scale draft gear, you need to use closer to scale couplers.

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor

Dennis I agree your Proto:HO coupler box looks great. I only
wish it were molded in polystyrene. It's not easy to work with
and mounting with screws is sometimes not possible.
Tim, we need the strength and low friction properties of an engineering resin to ensure that our tiny little couplers are robust enough to stand up to the rigors of service. If we made the boxes from styrene, people would try to use only glue to attach them, and the couplers would knock the covers off during hard couplings. Then everyone would complain that they were "no good", because they "always" fail. Form has to follow function, not wishful thinking.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.

113201 - 113220 of 195611