Date   

Re: Cleanout or washout track for reefers a Question (Procedures)

Neville Rossiter <rossiters@...>
 

Bob and members.
I think before you build anything whether it's a cleaning area, an industry
or a freight car you have to have an understanding of the process or
purpose, this information while might seem tedious to some helps in
designing the model in fact as we all know building the model is usually the
easy part gathering or researching for it is the hard part.
Thanks Bob.
Take care. Neville.





Neville-

Here are some notes on Cleaning Refrigerator Cars from the Santa Fe.

These are from the booklet, "Rules Governing The Cleaning, Fumigation and
Sanitation of Passenger, Work and Freight Equipment, Cars, Diesel
Locomotives and Parts".

This text originally was written March 1, 1915, and was revised September 1,
1964.

"CLEANING FREIGHT EQUIPMENT
Refrigerator Cars-Interior:

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD WATER BE ALLOWED TO STAND ON THE INTERIOR OF
REFRIGERATOR CARS.

Sweep floor and walls, being sure all crack are cleaned. If sweeping does
not properly clean, due to molasses, paint, etc., such portions of the wall
or floor should be scraped. If necessary, follow scraping with a scrub
brush and cleaning solution, Item 3-A or 3-F, with warm water, or, Item No.
8-K with hot water.

The bunkers of cars shall be cleaned by sweeping walls and drip pans. Clean
drip cups and drain pipes of all dirt and refuse. Water under pressure may
be used in bunkers only, for cleaning purposes.

Ceilings and walls of refrigerators [sic] shall be washed regularly with
cleaning solution, Item No. 3-A or 3-F, mixed with 2 to 4 oz. per gallon of
warm water."

The requirement to wash "ceilings and walls . regularly" does not define
"regularly".

Item 3-A is two approved cleaners, Turco RR#1 and C&H #55, both semi-paste
cleaners. Item 3-F is Oakite #202-BD, a liquid cleaner. Item 8-K is two
granular cleaners, Dearborn Chemical Sanitizer and Oakite Products Disanite.

Most of this information probably is more than most of us ever need to know,
but here it is for factoid collectors everywhere.

Bob Chaparro
Moderator
Citrus Industry Modeling Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/citrusmodeling/


AAR 70-ton, 53'-6" flat car

edwardloizeaux
 

Hello...Could someone please direct me to a source of prototype drawings/blueprints for the AAR 70-ton, 53'-6" flat car? Thanks for your help. Ed Loizeaux, 1-650-962-1577


Re: AAR 70-ton, 53'-6" flat car

Rhbale@...
 

Ed...

Copies of drawing and photo of Erie 53' 6" flat from 1946 CBC are being
sent directly to you at _Loizeaux@SBCGlobal.net_
(mailto:Loizeaux@SBCGlobal.net)

Richard Bale
Carlsbad, CA

Have you read the new Model Railroad Hobbyist on-line magazine?
Download it free at _www.model-railroad-h_ (http://www.model-railroad-h/)
obbyist.com

In a message dated 6/28/2009 6:05:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
Loizeaux@SBCGlobal.net writes:





Hello...Could someone please direct me to a source of prototype
drawings/blueprints for the AAR 70-ton, 53'-6" flat car? Thanks for your help. Ed
Loizeaux, 1-650-962-1577






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grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)


Re: Moving to Clearwater, FL & FGE

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Bill,

        Keep researching & writing, there are a lot of us waiting for the publication
Hope all turns out well in Florida.

Fred Freitas



________________________________
From: lnbill <bwelch@uucf.org>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:04:47 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Moving to Clearwater, FL & FGE





As some of you know, I am in the process of moving to Clearwater, FL and will be out of touch via email after June 30 until I arrive there in early August.

Work on the FGE/WFE/BRE book continues. I spent 3 fruitful days at the Hagley Library where imbedded in the PRR records there is a great treasure of FGE related material which will require another 5-6 days of looking thru folders. Lots of nice details and surprises about the company. I am not sure if I will able to retunr before I move but will come back if necessary as my philosophy about this is "Leave no stone unturned."

Meanwhile I am writing as time allows.

Bill Welch


UP underframe painting

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Regarding the color of underframes, trucks, wheels etc., the late Terry Metcalfe does, indeed, say in his UP frt car book that that UP box cars were painted with Synthetic Red throughout the Forties and Fifties. He also says that Flat cars were painted with Synthetic Red including underframe and trucks.

However, UP drawing 303-c-10782 [ 1-2-51 ] states that sides and ends of underframe of flat cars are to be painted with primer and 2 coats of "red freight car paint." "All other parts of the underframe are to be painted with primer and one coat of black car cement. Care should be taken in spraying AB Brake parts so that cement is not too heavily applied. Paint truck bolsters & side frames with primer and a light coat of red freight car paint. Do not paint wheels or axles". So, was the underframe red or black? Depends upon which part apparently. And, researching it might depend upon which drawing.

UP drawing 304-c-9358 [ A-50-18 class of auto car, 7-16-47 ] says for trucks, underframe, body and roof: Red synthetic freight car paint.

Color photos of UP box cars as shown in UP Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment show in every case into the 70's red painted trucks.

Were all trucks of all UP box cars so painted? It will take me a bit longer to determine...have 26,560 to check just in 1946.

To add to that, just because a drawing calls for a specific paint to be applied in a specific place, that does not mean it always happened. Photos are very clear that UP painted steam locomotives in slightly different renditions of their greyhound paint scheme.

Mike Brock


Re: Moving to Clearwater, FL & FGE

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Bill - And leave no tern unstoned. Best of luck. - Al

----- Original Message -----
From: lnbill
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Moving to Clearwater, FL & FGE





As some of you know, I am in the process of moving to Clearwater, FL and will be out of touch via email after June 30 until I arrive there in early August.

Work on the FGE/WFE/BRE book continues. I spent 3 fruitful days at the Hagley Library where imbedded in the PRR records there is a great treasure of FGE related material which will require another 5-6 days of looking thru folders. Lots of nice details and surprises about the company. I am not sure if I will able to retunr before I move but will come back if necessary as my philosophy about this is "Leave no stone unturned."

Meanwhile I am writing as time allows.

Bill Welch


Re: Cleanout or washout track for reefers a Question (Procedures)

David Payne
 

In a message dated 6/28/2009 10:09:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rossiters@optusnet.com.au writes:

I think before you build anything whether it's a cleaning area, an
industry
or a freight car you have to have an understanding of the process or
purpose, this information while might seem tedious to some helps in
designing the model in fact as we all know building the model is usually
the
easy part gathering or researching for it is the hard part.



Neville,

I certainly agree. The model press devotes little, if any space, to how
freight cars are loaded or unloaded and this, to me, is absolutely vital in
properly modeling the freight equipment and the industry whether receiving or
shipping.

David Payne
Acworth, Ga

**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
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eExcfooterNO62)


Re: Color of the PRR X31 Boxcar at Cajon Pass

SUVCWORR@...
 

Bob,

You are correct.? It is a late '60's nearly brown paint color.? The PRR freight car color shifted dramatically towards brown after the adoption of synthetic pigments and continued to move towards brown until the end.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: rwitt_2000 <rwitt_2000@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 2:38 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Color of the PRR X31 Boxcar at Cajon Pass



Does any one wish to comments about the color of the PRR X31 boxcar also
captured in this sequence of photos from Cajon Pass.

http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/cp/cajon_64.html
<http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/cp/cajon_64.html>

It is less like the bright oxide red that some freight car people
describe. The colors do not appear to be shifted in these reproductions.

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Modelers research library

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

A great number of really well done books about freight cars have been published in the last few years. The prices of many of these books are high enough that some folks must give the matter long and serious consideration before making a purchase decision. The prices probably mean that only a few can buy them all.

DISCLAIMER: I have no quarrel with any publisher's prices.

Is anyone in this group a member of a club, round-robin group or other organization that has a library? I'm thinking here of Car Builders' Cycs, books from the various RR historical societies, the stuff Ted Culotta and Tony Thompson put out and so on.

Has any group of like-minded modelers gotten together and pooled their libraries in some manner?

Inter-library loan is a useful tool but there is a time limit on how long one can keep a book.

Gene Green


Re: truck sideframes

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 28, 2009, at 12:41 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Also, journal box lids were a common third party item, so
buyers could order their favorite lids of the appropriate
size for anyone's truck. So we have to put on our "lid
filters" when trying to figure out what truck design we
are looking at.






Good point, Tim. Maybe the next frontier in model trucks is to make
the side frames without journal box lids and supply several different
types of lids which would snap in place. Yeah, I know, not bloody
likely. But I wouldn't rule it out.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: truck sideframes

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
snip

Also, some of them had double truss
lower chords, with the chords boxed in and shallow ribs on top which
extended into the spring box.
snip


One important correction-

All Self-Aligning Spring Plankless trucks are double truss. Also, as far as I've observed, the lower chords are open at the bottom. Called an "inverted U section".

For a better understanding of what a Self-Aligning Spring Plankless Double Truss truck is you will have to look into either the 1937 or 1940 CBC.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Moving to Clearwater, FL & FGE

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

As some of you know, I am in the process of moving to Clearwater, FL and will be out of touch via email after June 30 until I arrive there in early August.

Work on the FGE/WFE/BRE book continues. I spent 3 fruitful days at the Hagley Library where imbedded in the PRR records there is a great treasure of FGE related material which will require another 5-6 days of looking thru folders. Lots of nice details and surprises about the company. I am not sure if I will able to retunr before I move but will come back if necessary as my philosophy about this is "Leave no stone unturned."

Meanwhile I am writing as time allows.

Bill Welch


Re: truck sideframes

Tim O'Connor
 

Also, journal box lids were a common third party item, so
buyers could order their favorite lids of the appropriate
size for anyone's truck. So we have to put on our "lid
filters" when trying to figure out what truck design we
are looking at.

Tim O'Connor

No, though they all look similar. Side frame configuration varied a
bit from one manufacturer to another, and of course journal box size
varied according to whether the trucks were of forty, fifty, or
seventy tons nominal capacity. Also, some of them had double truss
lower chords, with the chords boxed in and shallow ribs on top which
extended into the spring box. In addition, with reference to earlier
posts on this topic, some were Unit trucks with flanges on the inside
of the side frame openings where the brake beams were attached. For
modeling purposes, the best trucks now available are the Tahoe self-
aligning spring-plankless double truss trucks, but Walthers, Tichy,
and others offer trucks which, though less well detailed and
precisely molded, may conform more closely to the sideframe
configuration on the car you're modeling. As always, prototype
photos are invaluable.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: UP 1937 AAR Boxcar Questions

Tim O'Connor
 

I know Richard, and I'm sure you have more information than I
do. But Terry writes "... throughout the Forties and Fifties"
in his book -- Now since I have a photo of a newly painted car
in the 1950's with glossy black trucks, I can say, regardless
of whether it applies to 1937 AAR box cars, that Terry was
making a broad generalization that was not always the case.
Also, I can find no mention in the book of painting box car
floor boards with Synthetic Red paint. Again, you may have
more complete documents to that effect. But since photographs
of the underside of brand new cars are relatively rare, and in
fact there are no such photos in Terry's book, I just didn't
want to tell Gene that the floors were painted body color as
I have never seen a photograph that shows it. I have seen a
few photos of other brand new railroad box car floors, and
some were unpainted (the boards that is -- all metal parts
were painted).

UP bought their underframes from vendors like Mt Vernon. I am
sure they were shipped primered or pre-painted. Then the car's
superstructure is added and the car is finished. Then the car,
now complete, is painted. My question being: why exactly would
they then crawl under the car to paint the floorboards? I have
never seen a photo of anyone doing that either. I can easily
be convinced -- all I ask is a photo that shows it!

The color photo on the cover of Terry's book clearly shows a
box car with painted trucks -- and paint on the wheels. What
it looks like is that the red paint was sprayed on the truck
sideframes on the completed car and no care was taken to make
sure that overspray didn't get on the trucks or couplers. It
was a common practice in the STMFC era. Since the backs of
the wheels in the picture appear not to be painted, how could
the floorboards have been painted with a spray gun, while this
car was standing on its trucks, and no paint got on the back
of the wheels?

Tim O'Connor

Tim, 1957 is well beyond the period I know or care about, and Gene's
question was about the UP's various versions of the 1937 AAR standard
design, classes B-50-19 through B-50-27. All of those box cars were
built in the company's own shops (UP didn't begin ordering box cars
from commercial car builders until after WW II, starting with the
B-50-38 class built by Mt. Vernon in 1946). Standard UP shop
practice of that period, as has been well documented by the late
Terry Metcalfe and others, was to paint box cars entirely with oxide
red, including trucks and underframes.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: truck sideframes

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 28, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Brian Chapman wrote:

So, do all AAR self-aligning spring-plankless side frames look the
same, regardless of manufacturer? That is, all manufacturers used
one AAR design drawing and distinctions between manufacturers
relied only on cast-on lettering?





No, though they all look similar. Side frame configuration varied a
bit from one manufacturer to another, and of course journal box size
varied according to whether the trucks were of forty, fifty, or
seventy tons nominal capacity. Also, some of them had double truss
lower chords, with the chords boxed in and shallow ribs on top which
extended into the spring box. In addition, with reference to earlier
posts on this topic, some were Unit trucks with flanges on the inside
of the side frame openings where the brake beams were attached. For
modeling purposes, the best trucks now available are the Tahoe self-
aligning spring-plankless double truss trucks, but Walthers, Tichy,
and others offer trucks which, though less well detailed and
precisely molded, may conform more closely to the sideframe
configuration on the car you're modeling. As always, prototype
photos are invaluable.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: "UNIT", "AAR" (Barber-Bettendorf) and ASF A-3 sideframes & truck help...

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

. . . You need to spend a bit of time studying the truck section in a 1940 or 1943 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. <
For anyone who's interested, these CBCs are available from online used book dealers. A couple of weeks ago I perused offerings, all 1940 and 1943 CBCs were $300 or more, except one 1943 CBC listed at $150. I jumped at it.

It is in fine condition and is chock-full of terrific information (although a History-Poly Sci guy like me has to study the drawings extra carefully to make sense of them). IMHO, worth every one of the 15,000 pennys paid. . . .

The chapter on trucks in Bob Karig's book on Coal Cars, published by the University of Chicago Press, is an indispensable guide to the development of truck technology. <
Richard provided the above information here a few weeks ago, too. I got a copy of the book through an Inter-Library Loan via my local public library. I found that the book's information is so useful, yesterday I bought a new copy of the book at Amazon.com for $50 (shipping included). (I'm anything but a spendthrift, so I wouldn't have bought these books if I didn't judge them to be of great value, fwiw.)

Richard, this is a perfect chance for me to thank you for the information you provided here on the list. My truck studies have begun, and even though there's a way to go before I'll have a good, solid, basic understanding, I'm on my way.

. . . knowing that a car had Unit truck side frames tells you nothing about how those side frames were configured or who made
them. . . . AAR trucks . . . were made by every truck manufacturer in North America, and in the absence of more information you have to look at photos. . . . I have 22 photos of the NH '37 AAR box cars in question, and in all of them the trucks are AAR self-aligning spring-plankless, though doubtless the side frames came from a number of different manufacturers. <

So, do all AAR self-aligning spring-plankless side frames look the same, regardless of manufacturer? That is, all manufacturers used one AAR design drawing and distinctions between manufacturers relied only on cast-on lettering?

Thanks much,

Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Re: Pics for the '20's & '40's

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Bill - Depending on where you live you may be near a library that carries many of the books listed. The NMRA library in Chattanooga would certainly have most of them as would railroad museum libraries. When I'm launching a new project I routinely spend a few hours in Chattanooga checking photos and data. You can also get them from your own library through interlibrary loan. For some idea of the types of cars you may need, go to my web site www.westerfield.biz . In each category you can have the program select cars by decade. Funaro and Camerlingo and Speedwich also have sites depicting cars from these decades. - Al Westerfield


Re: UP 1937 AAR Boxcar Questions

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Sure Tony. As soon as you send me a photo of a painted floor and underframe for every class of UP box car from 1936 to 1960, including repainted cars, I'll be happy to oblige... Seems to me the burden of proof is yours. A single contradiction is all it takes.
Better cut back on the caffeine, Tim. I was interested to see whatever photo it was. But if you see such a query as a challenge to your credibility, that speaks for itself.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


FS: AAR Pamphlet MD-4 "Rules Governing the Loading of Pipe on Open Top Cars"

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

FOR SALE: AAR Pamphlet MD-4 "Rules Governing the Loading of Pipe on Open
Top Cars" effective June 15, 1951



This original pamphlet has 106 pages of instructions with numerous detailed
diagrams showing the acceptable ways to load and secure pipe in flat cars
and gondolas including arrangement, overhang, strapping, and chocking of
pipe.



A fantastic piece of history which is in good shape with no tears with only
one mark that I have found. On the cover written in pencil is "Car
Inspector Baker" who must have been the original owner of this booklet.



I have the full set of these and got this one in a two book deal to fill out
my set. Yours for $30 plus actual cost of USPS Priority Mail or Media Mail,
your choice.



Please contact me off-list at:



allencain@tampabay.rr.com



Thanks,



Allen Cain


Re: FRISCO MODELER

jerryglow2
 

So join it. What's it going to cost you other than a little time to apply?

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN:Can a Frisco Modeler PLEASE e mail me off list,I have a question about the Kansas City,Osceola & Southern "the High Line''seems you have to be a member of the SIG to ask a question....
Hope someone can help
Thanks
Joel Norman

101101 - 101120 of 183657