Date   

Re: Railroad territories and geographical divisions of the US.

Dave Nelson
 

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
That would be the "100th Meridian", supposedly the dividing point
between where farming was possible without irrigation and where it
wasn't.

. . . At least that's what it said on a sign at a rest stop on I-80
in 1983.

KL

True enough Kurt. I considered writing that but, it doesn't work so well
for Canada or Texas, and so I wrote it up as a diagonal region to
accommodate the fact that whereas the meridian does run exactly
north/south, the mountains -- which determines the rainfall -- don't.

Dave Nelson


Re: NYC Hoppers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 10, 2009, at 11:21 AM, mguill1224@... wrote:

Virtually all of the material compiled, collected and owned by H.
Lansing
Vail is in the possession of the NYCSHS. Regrettably the NYCSHS
does not
have a facility suitable for proper storage, much less research.
So, while
Lans' files remain intact they are not readily accessible.






And the NYCSHS is doing what about this? Other historical societies
(and not just those for the larger railroads) have either established
their own archives or contracted with existing libraries or museums
to store and catalog materials so that they are readily available.
Mr. Vail, when he was alive, and the NYCSHS in general, have never
been forthcoming with access to their collections, not even to
members (except perhaps for a select few) and especially not to non-
members. What good is a historical society if its holdings are held
in disorganized limbo where they can't be accessed?

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Coal for home heating?

Al Campbell
 

Hello Group: I remember when I was young... Boy, don't we all sound
similar, coal delivery to my house in Chelsea MA was from a truck with a
mechanical arrangement to raise the body of the truck. No hydraulics here, to a
suitable height to dump the coal through a little door in the tailgate. Our
house was not set up to dump coal into a chute through a cellar window. The
men working the truck, usually three of them would fill canvas baskets and
walk them to the cellar window. The baskets probably weighed about 75 or so
pounds with a 50 foot walk. The coal we burned was anthracite most of the
time. My assumption is that the coal would have traveled via NYC hoppers
to a dealer in Chelsea or Everett. I'm pretty sure the B&M handled
bituminous coal for its own use and for commercial and industrial use. That would
have come in on barges to Mystic Terminal in Charlestown. Sometimes we would
burn coke and most likely it would be locally produced at a coal
gasification plant. Everett had a monster gasification plant which I guess belonged
to Boston Gas. There were others in Malden and Lynn I think. I'm not sure if
Chelsea had a gas plant. This was all around sixty years ago so don't be
surprised if there are some inaccuracies in what was said. I would like to
learn more about this industry. Anyone have suggestions to resources? Books,
web sites or whatever. Regards, Al Campbell
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Armand Premo
 

If you are happy with it that's all that counts.The majority will never know the difference. Ignorance is bliss.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???





Charlie Vlk wrote:
> Tony-
> I actually agree with you.... the general "taste" if you will, has
> improved to the point where people are sensitive to "wrong"....when
> I said "some" I meant the hard-core few boneheads that are
> perversely contrary no matter how much intormation is presented to
> them.
> To me information and learning is a Major part of the Hobby and
> probably why my personal modeling suffers... I want DATA!!!! MORE
> DATA!!!

Couldn't agree more, and I suspect most of this list membership
feels at least part of that same impulse. And let's all keep in mind
how high are standards today, and how much really good stuff is being
produced. Richard Hendrickson likes to say, "Guys, this IS the golden
age." I think he's right.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






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Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
Tony-
I actually agree with you.... the general "taste" if you will, has improved to the point where people are sensitive to "wrong"....when I said "some" I meant the hard-core few boneheads that are perversely contrary no matter how much intormation is presented to them.
To me information and learning is a Major part of the Hobby and probably why my personal modeling suffers... I want DATA!!!! MORE DATA!!!
Couldn't agree more, and I suspect most of this list membership feels at least part of that same impulse. And let's all keep in mind how high are standards today, and how much really good stuff is being produced. Richard Hendrickson likes to say, "Guys, this IS the golden age." I think he's right.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Stokes John
 

Your "confession" here, Charlie, hits the point, sometimes too much information is really too much for most people. It can become bewildering trying to keep up with perfection for every car in your collection, especially if your main interest is in operation or just running a close approximation of a specific or proto freelanced road and enjoy seeing and running trains. I think that is the vast majority of the market, and something that is close still gets the cigar if it looks like the car and looks good to the eye.

Yes standards have been improving, and what people will accept keeps creeping up, but at some point the joy of model railroading overcomes the angst of "is this car absolutely prototypical in every respect and I can't live with it if not." For collectors and stmfc aficionados, nearing perfecting may be the goal, and if that floats their boat, great.

I am not in any way saying that the work to gain more knowledge and prototypical information, and influence manufacturers to try harder to be accurate in design, execution and painting of freight cars is not something that should be encouraged, to the contrary. But don't get depressed or angry or denigrate the vast less washed because your ideals and wishes for all the esoteric and perfect cars you want may be slow in being fulfilled.

Keep up the good work, but keep smiling, this is a hobby.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA

To: STMFC@...
From: cvlk@...
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:20:30 -0500
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???


























Tony-

I actually agree with you.... the general "taste" if you will, has improved to the point where people are sensitive to "wrong"....

when I said "some" I meant the hard-core few boneheads that are perversely contrary no matter how much intormation is presented to them.

To me information and learning is a Major part of the Hobby and probably why my personal modeling suffers... I want DATA!!!! MORE DATA!!!

Charlie Vlk


Re: Coal for home heating?

Victor Bitleris
 

As I recall, the coal delivery trucks had several conveyors they carried with them. I believe they were electrically operated and had corner turn pieces as well. I don't remember any of the coal delivery guys using wheel barrows much, but they also had them hanging off the back of the trucks. I wonder if any coal delivery companies exists any longer?

Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC



To: STMFC@...
From: jimandlisa97225@...
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:49:40 -0700
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?


























I too used an ex coal bin as my hobby room when I was young. A work table

across one end and lots of display shelves around the rest of the

approximately 6x12 room. What I have never wondered until now is How did the

coal get into that bin? The window was on the side of the house more than

100 feet from the alley. Wheelbarrow? Wow, that would have been a lot of

work.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon

www.sunshinekits.com






















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Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Tim O'Connor
 

My Dad was not unwashed -- he bought Cyclopedias, clipped articles
from magazines, took thousands of prototype photos, built dozens of
craftsman kits -- but I'm convinced he never knew the difference
between a PS-1 and an AAR box car, much less the more subtle
differences we all know and love. And it's not his age or era
either, because many people on this list are nearly as old (he
was born in 1926) and some may be older. I'm the one who absorbed
it all -- I was like a sponge for that stuff. He continued to buy
junk models, AND good prototype models, until he stopped buying
anything at all a few years ago. I think there are a lot of
hobbyists out there like him! They're not stupid, but it's just
not what turns them on. Different strokes for different folks.

Tim O'Connor

Charlie Vlk wrote:
I grant you that there are some among us that don't want to know and
won't be swayed by knowledge.... but most people can be educated and
are willing to learn.... especially in the Hobby of Model Railroading.
I don't think this is true, Charlie. But I do think that lots of
the GUW in fact are QUITE sensitive to things that are "wrong."
Somewhat inaccurate -- hey, they can live with that -- but "wrong"
seems to hit a button. That's not what I'd call education, though.
They don't want to know the "why" for themselves.

Tony Thompson


Re: NYC Hoppers

James Yaworsky
 

I shall ask, and get back to you.

Jim Yaworsky

--- In STMFC@..., Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...> wrote:

So how does one find out what building plans are in this collection?

Alan

--
Alan Palmer
Ottawa, Ontario
rrgeekdev@...

Sent from my TelusMobility wireless device.

-----Original Message-----
From: "James Yaworsky" <jyaworsky@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 7/10/2009 2:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NYC Hoppers

--- In STMFC@..., Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@> wrote:

How much are these CD's?

Alan

from the NYCHS website: http://nycshs.blogspot.com/search?q=cd

Drawing CDs Now Available
Through grants by the generosity of the DeLong-Sweet Foundation, The Amherst Railway Society, and a member who wishes to remain anonymous, the Society has been able to digitize the majority of our official drawing collection. There are approximately 12,000 drawings available on Compact Disk covering approximately seventy different categories, including all steam locomotive classes, painting and lettering drawings, passenger cars, freight cars, MDT cars, diesel and electric locomotives, and others. This collection will be invaluable to modelers who model specific motive power and equipment. There are over 400 drawings available for J-1 Hudsons, over 800 drawings available for J-3 Hudsons, and over 700 drawings available for Niagaras and L-4 Mohawks, to cite a few examples. In addition, CDs are available of Valuation maps of the Boston & Albany main line, and CDs are also available of some equipment diagram books.

The price per CD for as many drawings as will fit on each CD is $45.00, postpaid. Ohio residents must add $3.25 sales tax. Depending on file size, between 27 and 400 drawings will fit on a CD. Purchasers are required to sign an End User License Agreement (EULA) which limits use of the files to the purchaser, prohibits electronic mailing and posting, etc. The Directors believe that if the files were to be posted, the value of the collection would be compromised, to the detriment of our members. Inquiries must include a contact phone number and email address, and should be made to:

NYCSHS Drawing CD
Dept W
PO Box 81184
Cleveland, OH 44181-0184


I hope this info helps.

Jim Yaworsky
Windsor, Ontario
NYCHS member...



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Charlie Vlk
 

Tony-
I actually agree with you.... the general "taste" if you will, has improved to the point where people are sensitive to "wrong"....
when I said "some" I meant the hard-core few boneheads that are perversely contrary no matter how much intormation is presented to them.
To me information and learning is a Major part of the Hobby and probably why my personal modeling suffers... I want DATA!!!! MORE DATA!!!
Charlie Vlk


Re: NYC Hoppers

Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...>
 

So how does one find out what building plans are in this collection?

Alan

--
Alan Palmer
Ottawa, Ontario
rrgeekdev@...

Sent from my TelusMobility wireless device.

-----Original Message-----
From: "James Yaworsky" <jyaworsky@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 7/10/2009 2:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NYC Hoppers

--- In STMFC@..., Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...> wrote:

How much are these CD's?

Alan

from the NYCHS website: http://nycshs.blogspot.com/search?q=cd

Drawing CDs Now Available
Through grants by the generosity of the DeLong-Sweet Foundation, The Amherst Railway Society, and a member who wishes to remain anonymous, the Society has been able to digitize the majority of our official drawing collection. There are approximately 12,000 drawings available on Compact Disk covering approximately seventy different categories, including all steam locomotive classes, painting and lettering drawings, passenger cars, freight cars, MDT cars, diesel and electric locomotives, and others. This collection will be invaluable to modelers who model specific motive power and equipment. There are over 400 drawings available for J-1 Hudsons, over 800 drawings available for J-3 Hudsons, and over 700 drawings available for Niagaras and L-4 Mohawks, to cite a few examples. In addition, CDs are available of Valuation maps of the Boston & Albany main line, and CDs are also available of some equipment diagram books.

The price per CD for as many drawings as will fit on each CD is $45.00, postpaid. Ohio residents must add $3.25 sales tax. Depending on file size, between 27 and 400 drawings will fit on a CD. Purchasers are required to sign an End User License Agreement (EULA) which limits use of the files to the purchaser, prohibits electronic mailing and posting, etc. The Directors believe that if the files were to be posted, the value of the collection would be compromised, to the detriment of our members. Inquiries must include a contact phone number and email address, and should be made to:

NYCSHS Drawing CD
Dept W
PO Box 81184
Cleveland, OH 44181-0184


I hope this info helps.

Jim Yaworsky
Windsor, Ontario
NYCHS member...



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
I grant you that there are some among us that don't want to know and won't be swayed by knowledge.... but most people can be educated and are willing to learn.... especially in the Hobby of Model Railroading.
I don't think this is true, Charlie. But I do think that lots of the GUW in fact are QUITE sensitive to things that are "wrong." Somewhat inaccurate -- hey, they can live with that -- but "wrong" seems to hit a button. That's not what I'd call education, though. They don't want to know the "why" for themselves.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NYC Hoppers

James Yaworsky
 

--- In STMFC@..., Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...> wrote:

How much are these CD's?

Alan

from the NYCHS website: http://nycshs.blogspot.com/search?q=cd

Drawing CDs Now Available
Through grants by the generosity of the DeLong-Sweet Foundation, The Amherst Railway Society, and a member who wishes to remain anonymous, the Society has been able to digitize the majority of our official drawing collection. There are approximately 12,000 drawings available on Compact Disk covering approximately seventy different categories, including all steam locomotive classes, painting and lettering drawings, passenger cars, freight cars, MDT cars, diesel and electric locomotives, and others. This collection will be invaluable to modelers who model specific motive power and equipment. There are over 400 drawings available for J-1 Hudsons, over 800 drawings available for J-3 Hudsons, and over 700 drawings available for Niagaras and L-4 Mohawks, to cite a few examples. In addition, CDs are available of Valuation maps of the Boston & Albany main line, and CDs are also available of some equipment diagram books.

The price per CD for as many drawings as will fit on each CD is $45.00, postpaid. Ohio residents must add $3.25 sales tax. Depending on file size, between 27 and 400 drawings will fit on a CD. Purchasers are required to sign an End User License Agreement (EULA) which limits use of the files to the purchaser, prohibits electronic mailing and posting, etc. The Directors believe that if the files were to be posted, the value of the collection would be compromised, to the detriment of our members. Inquiries must include a contact phone number and email address, and should be made to:

NYCSHS Drawing CD
Dept W
PO Box 81184
Cleveland, OH 44181-0184


I hope this info helps.

Jim Yaworsky
Windsor, Ontario
NYCHS member...


Re: Coal for home heating?

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I too used an ex coal bin as my hobby room when I was young. A work table
across one end and lots of display shelves around the rest of the
approximately 6x12 room. What I have never wondered until now is How did the
coal get into that bin? The window was on the side of the house more than
100 feet from the alley. Wheelbarrow? Wow, that would have been a lot of
work.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Charlie Vlk
 

Tim-
But even the people that buy by paintscheme are becoming more sophisticated.... the paint schemes that sell are more accurate renditions than you saw a couple of decades ago.
The general trend in the industry is towards more accuracy..... even in trainset-level stuff ..... maybe because the entry-level stuff isn't going out to the general public as much as it did at one time......trains are not truly just another "toy" nowadays.
I grant you that there are some among us that don't want to know and won't be swayed by knowledge.... but most people can be educated and are willing to learn.... especially in the Hobby of Model Railroading.
The good news is that almost all manufacturers know that you have to build to the high end of the spectrum... you can sell stuff that is too accurate (for at least one prototype) to all but you can't sell made-up stuff to anybody but the low end. Only one importer persists in selling old tooling in bogus paint (including, incredibly, the Marx F3!! which in its day was a poor copy of the Varney F3!!!) and they are pretty much off the radar lately and you don't see their products very much anywhere.
Charlie Vlk


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

Tim O'Connor
 

Jon

The business model is applicable to the steam era too. Want
to bring out a prototypical 1950's TOFC car with round nose
trailers? Or an Ethyl tank car? Or.... [ fill in the blank ]

All you need is time, money, a business plan, a web site, a
good toolmaker, and Chinese manufacturing. :-) Oh and keep it
under your hat! That may be the most important thing.

Exactrail does sell through hobby shops at short discount -
like Intermountain, Kadee and Red Caboose. Tangent does not.

Tim O'Connor

I checked both sites and they have very good products. I'm wondering
what the distribution system is? Do most LHSs carry them? I think this is
probably important for the "Great Unwashed" as I'm guessing they do very
little mail-order. As they would not be concerned with hunting for accurate
models but something they see and like I think the product would have to be
in a LHS!
The era is wrong for me.

Jon Miller


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Tim O'Connor
 

Charlie Vlk wrote

The interest in prototype continues and feeds on itself as more people become
aware of What Was. I think to write off those that don't build resin kits as
The Great Unwashed" is counterproductive.
Charlie I don't mean that at all by TGU... Nevertheless there
will always be a segment (probably the majority) of hobbyists
who simply DO NOT CARE. What they like about trains and what we
(most of US anyway) like is simply something different.

I've seen peoples' jaws almost hit the floor when I told them
a model freight car was made of brass. It was inconceivable in
their universe that anyone would "waste" so much money on a
model freight car.

The vendors know this. I was told at a show by an Athearn rep
that the mass produced junk (pretty paint schemes on ancient
tooling with no regard for accuracy) subsidizes the good stuff.
Fine by me!

Tim O'Connor


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

jerryglow2
 

I haven't been to Happy Hobo in Tampa for a long time but was there Wednesday and noted they have both company's produces. But they are IMO a very good hobby shop with a good assortment of freight cars due to the manager's interest.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Jon Miller" <atsf@...> wrote:

Dave
Lehlbach started Tangent Scale Models, and just recently
Chris Clune started a major new operation, Exactrail. The
Great Unwashed are buying very few of their models.<

I checked both sites and they have very good products. I'm wondering
what the distribution system is? Do most LHSs carry them? I think this is
probably important for the "Great Unwashed" as I'm guessing they do very
little mail-order. As they would not be concerned with hunting for accurate
models but something they see and like I think the product would have to be
in a LHS!
The era is wrong for me.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Dave
Lehlbach started Tangent Scale Models, and just recently
Chris Clune started a major new operation, Exactrail. The
Great Unwashed are buying very few of their models.<

I checked both sites and they have very good products. I'm wondering what the distribution system is? Do most LHSs carry them? I think this is probably important for the "Great Unwashed" as I'm guessing they do very little mail-order. As they would not be concerned with hunting for accurate models but something they see and like I think the product would have to be in a LHS!
The era is wrong for me.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Coal for home heating?

Victor Bitleris
 

This is an interesting topic. I remember when my parents bought their first house in 1956. It came with a coal fired furnace that fed steam to the radiators in the house. I bet the thing was built in the early 1900's. Us kids, I was around 7 at the time, had to shovel coal from the coal bin, which was about 3 or 4 feet away from the front of the furnace, into the open furnace doors every morning. I thought this was great and had a lot of fun doing it. My dad taught us how to check the water glass and all of that other cool stuff. Alas, it did not last very long, only one heating season. My parents had a heating contractor come in and convert the old, but still very stout boiler to a gas fired one instead of a coal fired one. All was not too bad, the coal bin ended up being my model building shop afterward. It was a HUGE job cleaning all of the coal dust out and finally, I painted the whole thing floor, ceiling, rafters, concrete block walls, everything with about 3 or 4 coats of basement paint. I think the paint is still holding the coal dust in suspension to this very day. I bet the current owners haven't a clue. However, a lot of houses in the neighborhood continued to heat with coal for several years afterward. The best one I remember was a 5 story apartment building across the alley that continued to use coal right into the 1960's. I used to love to watch the coal delivery guys load that one up. I am going to guess that building had stokers.

Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC



To: STMFC@...
From: water.kresse@...
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:22:23 +0000
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?






























Nobody has mentioned "stokers" for their furnaces. The 1935 "Stoker Coal, C&O Lines" booklet I was referencing showed home furnaces with a box on the side of of the furnace that automatically feed the furnace . . . . and with the entire family playing in the basement around the clean furnace.



My first memory of moving into a "new" house in the Chicago western subs in 1946 or 47 was my Dad pulling out the cast iron coal furnace so the contractor would come in and install a new gas furnace and proper ducting. It took years to get the coal out of the coal room next to the driveway. Eventually, my Dad turned it into a room to store the storm windors/screen and some lumber. It ever amazed me how my Mom could figure out that I had sneaked under the locked 3/4 door into the work shop and lumber storage rooms for materials for one of my many projects.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----

From: "mhts switzerm" <mhts_switzerm@...>

To: STMFC@...

Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:43:03 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?



Denny's comment took me back to my childhood in the 1950's and 1960's. We heated our huge house with "soft" coal. There was a large furnace that shared the basement with my model railroad. I recall Dad banking the furnace every night and again before going to work each morning. He also carried out the ashes and clinkers in 5 gallon buckets. He kept the buckets of clinkers readily available for added traction on ice and snow.



The coal came from the local elevator and was deliveered from a truck with a special steel bed that would raise like a dump truck, but the rear opening was the size of the coal door in the side of the house. The coal was dumped down a schute carried on the truck through the coal door into the terrifying confines of the coal room in the basement.



Mom always complained about coal dust after a delivery was made, but I don't recall any problem with the model railroad.



And of ocurse the small easten Indiana town in which this all happened was on the NYC Indianapolis to Springfield, OH line. The coal was delivered to the local elevator in L&N 2 bay steel hoppers. A local guy was paid $50.00 to unload one with the help of an elevator. he was black head to foot when he finished.



--- On Thu, 7/9/09, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote:



From: Denny Anspach <danspach@...>

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?

To: STMFC@...

Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 5:57 PM



I heated my home in northern Vermont in the '80s with hand-bombed

anthracite. Very hot, and also relatively clean; and when banked, the

fire could last for up to 48 hrs. without touching. Good stuff.



Denny







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