Date   

Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
Tony-
I actually agree with you.... the general "taste" if you will, has improved to the point where people are sensitive to "wrong"....when I said "some" I meant the hard-core few boneheads that are perversely contrary no matter how much intormation is presented to them.
To me information and learning is a Major part of the Hobby and probably why my personal modeling suffers... I want DATA!!!! MORE DATA!!!
Couldn't agree more, and I suspect most of this list membership feels at least part of that same impulse. And let's all keep in mind how high are standards today, and how much really good stuff is being produced. Richard Hendrickson likes to say, "Guys, this IS the golden age." I think he's right.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Stokes John
 

Your "confession" here, Charlie, hits the point, sometimes too much information is really too much for most people. It can become bewildering trying to keep up with perfection for every car in your collection, especially if your main interest is in operation or just running a close approximation of a specific or proto freelanced road and enjoy seeing and running trains. I think that is the vast majority of the market, and something that is close still gets the cigar if it looks like the car and looks good to the eye.

Yes standards have been improving, and what people will accept keeps creeping up, but at some point the joy of model railroading overcomes the angst of "is this car absolutely prototypical in every respect and I can't live with it if not." For collectors and stmfc aficionados, nearing perfecting may be the goal, and if that floats their boat, great.

I am not in any way saying that the work to gain more knowledge and prototypical information, and influence manufacturers to try harder to be accurate in design, execution and painting of freight cars is not something that should be encouraged, to the contrary. But don't get depressed or angry or denigrate the vast less washed because your ideals and wishes for all the esoteric and perfect cars you want may be slow in being fulfilled.

Keep up the good work, but keep smiling, this is a hobby.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA

To: STMFC@...
From: cvlk@...
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:20:30 -0500
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???


























Tony-

I actually agree with you.... the general "taste" if you will, has improved to the point where people are sensitive to "wrong"....

when I said "some" I meant the hard-core few boneheads that are perversely contrary no matter how much intormation is presented to them.

To me information and learning is a Major part of the Hobby and probably why my personal modeling suffers... I want DATA!!!! MORE DATA!!!

Charlie Vlk


Re: Coal for home heating?

Victor Bitleris
 

As I recall, the coal delivery trucks had several conveyors they carried with them. I believe they were electrically operated and had corner turn pieces as well. I don't remember any of the coal delivery guys using wheel barrows much, but they also had them hanging off the back of the trucks. I wonder if any coal delivery companies exists any longer?

Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC



To: STMFC@...
From: jimandlisa97225@...
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:49:40 -0700
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?


























I too used an ex coal bin as my hobby room when I was young. A work table

across one end and lots of display shelves around the rest of the

approximately 6x12 room. What I have never wondered until now is How did the

coal get into that bin? The window was on the side of the house more than

100 feet from the alley. Wheelbarrow? Wow, that would have been a lot of

work.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon

www.sunshinekits.com






















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Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Tim O'Connor
 

My Dad was not unwashed -- he bought Cyclopedias, clipped articles
from magazines, took thousands of prototype photos, built dozens of
craftsman kits -- but I'm convinced he never knew the difference
between a PS-1 and an AAR box car, much less the more subtle
differences we all know and love. And it's not his age or era
either, because many people on this list are nearly as old (he
was born in 1926) and some may be older. I'm the one who absorbed
it all -- I was like a sponge for that stuff. He continued to buy
junk models, AND good prototype models, until he stopped buying
anything at all a few years ago. I think there are a lot of
hobbyists out there like him! They're not stupid, but it's just
not what turns them on. Different strokes for different folks.

Tim O'Connor

Charlie Vlk wrote:
I grant you that there are some among us that don't want to know and
won't be swayed by knowledge.... but most people can be educated and
are willing to learn.... especially in the Hobby of Model Railroading.
I don't think this is true, Charlie. But I do think that lots of
the GUW in fact are QUITE sensitive to things that are "wrong."
Somewhat inaccurate -- hey, they can live with that -- but "wrong"
seems to hit a button. That's not what I'd call education, though.
They don't want to know the "why" for themselves.

Tony Thompson


Re: NYC Hoppers

James Yaworsky
 

I shall ask, and get back to you.

Jim Yaworsky

--- In STMFC@..., Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...> wrote:

So how does one find out what building plans are in this collection?

Alan

--
Alan Palmer
Ottawa, Ontario
rrgeekdev@...

Sent from my TelusMobility wireless device.

-----Original Message-----
From: "James Yaworsky" <jyaworsky@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 7/10/2009 2:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NYC Hoppers

--- In STMFC@..., Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@> wrote:

How much are these CD's?

Alan

from the NYCHS website: http://nycshs.blogspot.com/search?q=cd

Drawing CDs Now Available
Through grants by the generosity of the DeLong-Sweet Foundation, The Amherst Railway Society, and a member who wishes to remain anonymous, the Society has been able to digitize the majority of our official drawing collection. There are approximately 12,000 drawings available on Compact Disk covering approximately seventy different categories, including all steam locomotive classes, painting and lettering drawings, passenger cars, freight cars, MDT cars, diesel and electric locomotives, and others. This collection will be invaluable to modelers who model specific motive power and equipment. There are over 400 drawings available for J-1 Hudsons, over 800 drawings available for J-3 Hudsons, and over 700 drawings available for Niagaras and L-4 Mohawks, to cite a few examples. In addition, CDs are available of Valuation maps of the Boston & Albany main line, and CDs are also available of some equipment diagram books.

The price per CD for as many drawings as will fit on each CD is $45.00, postpaid. Ohio residents must add $3.25 sales tax. Depending on file size, between 27 and 400 drawings will fit on a CD. Purchasers are required to sign an End User License Agreement (EULA) which limits use of the files to the purchaser, prohibits electronic mailing and posting, etc. The Directors believe that if the files were to be posted, the value of the collection would be compromised, to the detriment of our members. Inquiries must include a contact phone number and email address, and should be made to:

NYCSHS Drawing CD
Dept W
PO Box 81184
Cleveland, OH 44181-0184


I hope this info helps.

Jim Yaworsky
Windsor, Ontario
NYCHS member...



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Charlie Vlk
 

Tony-
I actually agree with you.... the general "taste" if you will, has improved to the point where people are sensitive to "wrong"....
when I said "some" I meant the hard-core few boneheads that are perversely contrary no matter how much intormation is presented to them.
To me information and learning is a Major part of the Hobby and probably why my personal modeling suffers... I want DATA!!!! MORE DATA!!!
Charlie Vlk


Re: NYC Hoppers

Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...>
 

So how does one find out what building plans are in this collection?

Alan

--
Alan Palmer
Ottawa, Ontario
rrgeekdev@...

Sent from my TelusMobility wireless device.

-----Original Message-----
From: "James Yaworsky" <jyaworsky@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 7/10/2009 2:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NYC Hoppers

--- In STMFC@..., Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...> wrote:

How much are these CD's?

Alan

from the NYCHS website: http://nycshs.blogspot.com/search?q=cd

Drawing CDs Now Available
Through grants by the generosity of the DeLong-Sweet Foundation, The Amherst Railway Society, and a member who wishes to remain anonymous, the Society has been able to digitize the majority of our official drawing collection. There are approximately 12,000 drawings available on Compact Disk covering approximately seventy different categories, including all steam locomotive classes, painting and lettering drawings, passenger cars, freight cars, MDT cars, diesel and electric locomotives, and others. This collection will be invaluable to modelers who model specific motive power and equipment. There are over 400 drawings available for J-1 Hudsons, over 800 drawings available for J-3 Hudsons, and over 700 drawings available for Niagaras and L-4 Mohawks, to cite a few examples. In addition, CDs are available of Valuation maps of the Boston & Albany main line, and CDs are also available of some equipment diagram books.

The price per CD for as many drawings as will fit on each CD is $45.00, postpaid. Ohio residents must add $3.25 sales tax. Depending on file size, between 27 and 400 drawings will fit on a CD. Purchasers are required to sign an End User License Agreement (EULA) which limits use of the files to the purchaser, prohibits electronic mailing and posting, etc. The Directors believe that if the files were to be posted, the value of the collection would be compromised, to the detriment of our members. Inquiries must include a contact phone number and email address, and should be made to:

NYCSHS Drawing CD
Dept W
PO Box 81184
Cleveland, OH 44181-0184


I hope this info helps.

Jim Yaworsky
Windsor, Ontario
NYCHS member...



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
I grant you that there are some among us that don't want to know and won't be swayed by knowledge.... but most people can be educated and are willing to learn.... especially in the Hobby of Model Railroading.
I don't think this is true, Charlie. But I do think that lots of the GUW in fact are QUITE sensitive to things that are "wrong." Somewhat inaccurate -- hey, they can live with that -- but "wrong" seems to hit a button. That's not what I'd call education, though. They don't want to know the "why" for themselves.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NYC Hoppers

James Yaworsky
 

--- In STMFC@..., Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...> wrote:

How much are these CD's?

Alan

from the NYCHS website: http://nycshs.blogspot.com/search?q=cd

Drawing CDs Now Available
Through grants by the generosity of the DeLong-Sweet Foundation, The Amherst Railway Society, and a member who wishes to remain anonymous, the Society has been able to digitize the majority of our official drawing collection. There are approximately 12,000 drawings available on Compact Disk covering approximately seventy different categories, including all steam locomotive classes, painting and lettering drawings, passenger cars, freight cars, MDT cars, diesel and electric locomotives, and others. This collection will be invaluable to modelers who model specific motive power and equipment. There are over 400 drawings available for J-1 Hudsons, over 800 drawings available for J-3 Hudsons, and over 700 drawings available for Niagaras and L-4 Mohawks, to cite a few examples. In addition, CDs are available of Valuation maps of the Boston & Albany main line, and CDs are also available of some equipment diagram books.

The price per CD for as many drawings as will fit on each CD is $45.00, postpaid. Ohio residents must add $3.25 sales tax. Depending on file size, between 27 and 400 drawings will fit on a CD. Purchasers are required to sign an End User License Agreement (EULA) which limits use of the files to the purchaser, prohibits electronic mailing and posting, etc. The Directors believe that if the files were to be posted, the value of the collection would be compromised, to the detriment of our members. Inquiries must include a contact phone number and email address, and should be made to:

NYCSHS Drawing CD
Dept W
PO Box 81184
Cleveland, OH 44181-0184


I hope this info helps.

Jim Yaworsky
Windsor, Ontario
NYCHS member...


Re: Coal for home heating?

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I too used an ex coal bin as my hobby room when I was young. A work table
across one end and lots of display shelves around the rest of the
approximately 6x12 room. What I have never wondered until now is How did the
coal get into that bin? The window was on the side of the house more than
100 feet from the alley. Wheelbarrow? Wow, that would have been a lot of
work.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Charlie Vlk
 

Tim-
But even the people that buy by paintscheme are becoming more sophisticated.... the paint schemes that sell are more accurate renditions than you saw a couple of decades ago.
The general trend in the industry is towards more accuracy..... even in trainset-level stuff ..... maybe because the entry-level stuff isn't going out to the general public as much as it did at one time......trains are not truly just another "toy" nowadays.
I grant you that there are some among us that don't want to know and won't be swayed by knowledge.... but most people can be educated and are willing to learn.... especially in the Hobby of Model Railroading.
The good news is that almost all manufacturers know that you have to build to the high end of the spectrum... you can sell stuff that is too accurate (for at least one prototype) to all but you can't sell made-up stuff to anybody but the low end. Only one importer persists in selling old tooling in bogus paint (including, incredibly, the Marx F3!! which in its day was a poor copy of the Varney F3!!!) and they are pretty much off the radar lately and you don't see their products very much anywhere.
Charlie Vlk


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

Tim O'Connor
 

Jon

The business model is applicable to the steam era too. Want
to bring out a prototypical 1950's TOFC car with round nose
trailers? Or an Ethyl tank car? Or.... [ fill in the blank ]

All you need is time, money, a business plan, a web site, a
good toolmaker, and Chinese manufacturing. :-) Oh and keep it
under your hat! That may be the most important thing.

Exactrail does sell through hobby shops at short discount -
like Intermountain, Kadee and Red Caboose. Tangent does not.

Tim O'Connor

I checked both sites and they have very good products. I'm wondering
what the distribution system is? Do most LHSs carry them? I think this is
probably important for the "Great Unwashed" as I'm guessing they do very
little mail-order. As they would not be concerned with hunting for accurate
models but something they see and like I think the product would have to be
in a LHS!
The era is wrong for me.

Jon Miller


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Tim O'Connor
 

Charlie Vlk wrote

The interest in prototype continues and feeds on itself as more people become
aware of What Was. I think to write off those that don't build resin kits as
The Great Unwashed" is counterproductive.
Charlie I don't mean that at all by TGU... Nevertheless there
will always be a segment (probably the majority) of hobbyists
who simply DO NOT CARE. What they like about trains and what we
(most of US anyway) like is simply something different.

I've seen peoples' jaws almost hit the floor when I told them
a model freight car was made of brass. It was inconceivable in
their universe that anyone would "waste" so much money on a
model freight car.

The vendors know this. I was told at a show by an Athearn rep
that the mass produced junk (pretty paint schemes on ancient
tooling with no regard for accuracy) subsidizes the good stuff.
Fine by me!

Tim O'Connor


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

jerryglow2
 

I haven't been to Happy Hobo in Tampa for a long time but was there Wednesday and noted they have both company's produces. But they are IMO a very good hobby shop with a good assortment of freight cars due to the manager's interest.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Jon Miller" <atsf@...> wrote:

Dave
Lehlbach started Tangent Scale Models, and just recently
Chris Clune started a major new operation, Exactrail. The
Great Unwashed are buying very few of their models.<

I checked both sites and they have very good products. I'm wondering
what the distribution system is? Do most LHSs carry them? I think this is
probably important for the "Great Unwashed" as I'm guessing they do very
little mail-order. As they would not be concerned with hunting for accurate
models but something they see and like I think the product would have to be
in a LHS!
The era is wrong for me.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Dave
Lehlbach started Tangent Scale Models, and just recently
Chris Clune started a major new operation, Exactrail. The
Great Unwashed are buying very few of their models.<

I checked both sites and they have very good products. I'm wondering what the distribution system is? Do most LHSs carry them? I think this is probably important for the "Great Unwashed" as I'm guessing they do very little mail-order. As they would not be concerned with hunting for accurate models but something they see and like I think the product would have to be in a LHS!
The era is wrong for me.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Coal for home heating?

Victor Bitleris
 

This is an interesting topic. I remember when my parents bought their first house in 1956. It came with a coal fired furnace that fed steam to the radiators in the house. I bet the thing was built in the early 1900's. Us kids, I was around 7 at the time, had to shovel coal from the coal bin, which was about 3 or 4 feet away from the front of the furnace, into the open furnace doors every morning. I thought this was great and had a lot of fun doing it. My dad taught us how to check the water glass and all of that other cool stuff. Alas, it did not last very long, only one heating season. My parents had a heating contractor come in and convert the old, but still very stout boiler to a gas fired one instead of a coal fired one. All was not too bad, the coal bin ended up being my model building shop afterward. It was a HUGE job cleaning all of the coal dust out and finally, I painted the whole thing floor, ceiling, rafters, concrete block walls, everything with about 3 or 4 coats of basement paint. I think the paint is still holding the coal dust in suspension to this very day. I bet the current owners haven't a clue. However, a lot of houses in the neighborhood continued to heat with coal for several years afterward. The best one I remember was a 5 story apartment building across the alley that continued to use coal right into the 1960's. I used to love to watch the coal delivery guys load that one up. I am going to guess that building had stokers.

Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC



To: STMFC@...
From: water.kresse@...
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:22:23 +0000
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?






























Nobody has mentioned "stokers" for their furnaces. The 1935 "Stoker Coal, C&O Lines" booklet I was referencing showed home furnaces with a box on the side of of the furnace that automatically feed the furnace . . . . and with the entire family playing in the basement around the clean furnace.



My first memory of moving into a "new" house in the Chicago western subs in 1946 or 47 was my Dad pulling out the cast iron coal furnace so the contractor would come in and install a new gas furnace and proper ducting. It took years to get the coal out of the coal room next to the driveway. Eventually, my Dad turned it into a room to store the storm windors/screen and some lumber. It ever amazed me how my Mom could figure out that I had sneaked under the locked 3/4 door into the work shop and lumber storage rooms for materials for one of my many projects.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----

From: "mhts switzerm" <mhts_switzerm@...>

To: STMFC@...

Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:43:03 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?



Denny's comment took me back to my childhood in the 1950's and 1960's. We heated our huge house with "soft" coal. There was a large furnace that shared the basement with my model railroad. I recall Dad banking the furnace every night and again before going to work each morning. He also carried out the ashes and clinkers in 5 gallon buckets. He kept the buckets of clinkers readily available for added traction on ice and snow.



The coal came from the local elevator and was deliveered from a truck with a special steel bed that would raise like a dump truck, but the rear opening was the size of the coal door in the side of the house. The coal was dumped down a schute carried on the truck through the coal door into the terrifying confines of the coal room in the basement.



Mom always complained about coal dust after a delivery was made, but I don't recall any problem with the model railroad.



And of ocurse the small easten Indiana town in which this all happened was on the NYC Indianapolis to Springfield, OH line. The coal was delivered to the local elevator in L&N 2 bay steel hoppers. A local guy was paid $50.00 to unload one with the help of an elevator. he was black head to foot when he finished.



--- On Thu, 7/9/09, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote:



From: Denny Anspach <danspach@...>

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?

To: STMFC@...

Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 5:57 PM



I heated my home in northern Vermont in the '80s with hand-bombed

anthracite. Very hot, and also relatively clean; and when banked, the

fire could last for up to 48 hrs. without touching. Good stuff.



Denny







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















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"The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Charlie Vlk
 

Before the interest level in accurate freight cars spread and people started digging up and researching material on freight cars almost all of us were "The Great Unwashed".

In the late 1960's my level of general knowledge regarding freight cars was maybe a little above average but not alot. I was attempting to model the CB&Q in HO... good friend Pat Egan modified an LMB 01a 2-8-2 for me with the early Elesco system following 4978, and I had corrected a Trains, Inc. four window waycar to the 1950's appearance. I then looked at the gap between the coupler on the tank and the waycar and realized that I'd have to scratchbuild every piece of "signature" CB&Q freight equipment to fill it in. This was pre-Evergreen styrene, and Jack Work and others were just starting to describe how to use early RTV and resins to make tree stumps. Athearn had a rather fixed range of decoration for their box cars and reefers which were relieved by custom runs by Bev-Bel and painted and decaled assembled Roundhouse and Athearn cars by Kar-Line. I figured that, rather than frustrating myself with compromising or having to scratchbuild the cars I wanted, I'd get into N Scale "where nobody in their right mind would ever try to model prototypicaly"....

Well, Charlie, how did that work out for you??? For a while, freelancing was okay.... then the )$#))$@ industry started to bring out proto-specific things in N like E5s, brass CZs, and EMD diesels detailed for the CB&Q. Grrrrr! Then I got into the act and started doing it to myself as well (Budd Prewar cars, etc..) while working at Kato and for other manufacturers.

I would say there are alot more people out there that don't show up at RPM meets that are increasingly prototype-aware and don't just buy cars based on paint schemes. Micro-Trains, long dominated the market with their unmatched program of monthly freight car releases, but have been seeing sales drop off. IMHO it is due to N Scalers looking to Atlas, InterMountain, and Athearn for more carefully executed and common "railroady" paint schemes on more accurate stand-ins, if not exact prototype bodies. The days of a six-foot door PS1
being acceptable as a canvas for any 36-40 FT steel boxcar paint scheme (especially the eye-catching unusual ones) are gone. (not to say that there still is a "Collector's Market that will buy State, Presidents, Province, Smokey the Bear, etc.. cars... but this is separate from the main body of N Scalers).

The interest in prototype continues and feeds on itself as more people become aware of What Was. I think to write off those that don't build resin kits as The Great Unwashed" is counterproductive. Some people may accept stand-ins for much of their equipment but have some great models of prototypes they are really interested in, and to dismiss them is missing an opportunity to learn from them. The more people learn about freight cars and what they "need" on their particular railroad the less the oddball and flashy paint schemes will sell.

Charlie Vlk





Forgive me for weighing in on this topic so late. Somewhere in the next 100 messages that I have yet to read is probably the same point I will make but expressed in a more lucid way. Anyway . . .

Tom is quite correct, I believe, when he states that a plastic model succeeds only when "The Great Umwashed" (i.e. non-STMFC members) buy them in great numbers.

I would like to disagree with his "Education, my friend, education" paragraph. I am convinced that The Great Umwashed buy paint schemes, not accurate models.

In support of my point of view I offer the following. Anything with the M&StL's post-1956 red and white paint scheme sells well without regard to accuracy. Accuracy can either mean a well done car modeling something the M&StL actually had or that the paint scheme is well and accurately rendered on an otherwise bogus model.

Clark Propst and I have busted our humps to publicize and promote accurate M&StL models and paint schemes. Obviously we still have a way to go.

Richard and Tony did indeed bring PFE reefers to the attention of all but, I submit, The Great Umwashed once again buy paint schemes. Just look at all the lettering and herald variations on PFE reefers.

Gene Green
.


Re: coal shipments

Tim O'Connor
 

I salute Mike for revealing the incident, and the PRR cars of
relevent interest. While we have been discussing just how far from
home rails these cars ventured, it is nice to know they went far
enough west to attract Kratville's notice. It takes a man of
strength to admit the PRR supplied his favorite railroad with the
coal to move tonnage.

Fred, there was no implication that PRR originated that carload
of coal. It's FAR more likely that the car was loaded in Wyoming,
Colorado or Utah. Just a classic "stray" that left home rails
and wandered about for a while before someone finally sent it
home. Stray cars could spend years off line -- if you read the
car service rules, regional rules etc carefully (they are in
the Equipment Registers) it's easy to understand how cars could
remain off line for long periods of time and never violate any
of the car service rules.

Tim O'Connor


coal shipments

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

List,


          I salute Mike for revealing the incident, and the PRR cars of
relevent interest. While we have been discussing just how far from
home rails these cars ventured, it is nice to know they went far
enough west to attract Kratville's notice. It takes a man of
strength to admit the PRR supplied his favorite railroad with the    
coal to move tonnage.
           Growing up in Boston, MA I saw a great variety of
roadnames on hoppers. Some dealers displayed prominent signs
with D&H, Reading and Blue Coal. Boston had a steam plant
that fed the downtown stores and offices. It was fed by the NH
and the B&A. Cars from Ohio eastward were spotted there
on a regular basis. there was a coal dealer in the Roxbury section
that received cars with MoPac and Frisco on the side. Why??
Never did find out that answer.
          NYC, P&LE, PRR, C&I, BWCX, and CN were the most
common off road cars in the Yards of the Boston & Albany, New
Haven, and Boston & Maine as best memory serves fifty years
later. The B&M had a coal loading facility on the harbor in
chalrestown into the late 1950's. It was part of the Wiggins
Terminal property, which they owned.
        Prototyping these moves is going to be an ongoing quest
to find answers with factual info. My thanks to Mike for letting
this thread prosper.

Fred Freitas































































+

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Coal for home heating?

Tim O'Connor
 

I'm surprised if very fine coal was shipped in hoppers. I
can imagine some moisture (rain or snow) followed by a hard
freeze would turn that entire load into a solid block of
ice! (Larger size coal was far less likely to freeze solid
because of the air spaces between the chunks.)

Tim O'Connor

At 7/10/2009 01:03 PM Friday, you wrote:
Al Kresse:
Nobody has mentioned "stokers" for their furnaces. The 1935 "Stoker Coal, C&O Lines" booklet I was referencing showed home furnaces with a box on the side of of the furnace that automatically feed the furnace . . . . and with the entire family playing in the basement around the clean furnace.
We had a stoker on our coal furnace. Our house was completed in the summer of 1942 so the furnace dated from that time. IIRC the stoker was mounted on the side of and open to the coal bin. It was gravity fed, so the only time you had to actually shovel coal was when the level got way down in the bin. Since my dad was the coal dealer, and the shoveler if it came to that, he made sure the bin was always full. I don't think nut coal (the largest we carried) would work in household stokers. I think we burned rice. In any event, I shouldn't think sizes smaller than nut (the previously mentioned pea, rice and buckwheat) would heap well in a hopper, so a load of such coal might appear flatter and have a much finer texture than what we modelers are used to seeing.

Tom Madden

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