Date   

Re: Modelers research library

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Alan Palmer wrote:
I looked into using some images from the St. Lawrence County Historical Society for a book and they wanted $200 per image. If I gave them 500 books to sell themselves they were going to charge me $150 per. Needless to say I did not proceed. And this group complains that noone knows the history of the area or uses their resources.
That's a new high price for me, Alan. I was upset when the San Francisco Chronicle wanted $125 each for photos from their morgue, long-ago news photos. We used the absolute MINIMUM we needed, I can tell you.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Coal for home heating?

MDelvec952
 

Amand's description of the metal chutes on these specialized coal delivery trucks best fits the description in the Anthracite belt coal dealers. These chutes had enough curveable joints in so they could reach almost any basement window -- it was always in the homeowner's interest to arrange the basement and coal bunker for easy access to a coal truck.

In 1990 I was driving between Scranton and nearby Taylor Yard and saw one of the old scissors dump trucks that had stopped traffic and had backed into someone's front yard. His bed was up, and he manipulated the chute which curved and telescoped as needed, then lifted the slide and the coal slid freely. The whole process was over before I could get close with a camera, but I did get a couple of pictures of the truck and the house from a distance. It was news to me that homes were still coal fired at that time. And it turns out that homes can still be coal fired. Some modern stoves have automatic firing, stoking and ash removal.

The Whippany Railroad Museum in New Jersey has a coal truck from a local coal dealer who actually received hopper cars in Denville into the 1960s and was a long-time Blue Coal (DL&W trademark) dealer. A link is at:

http://www.whippanyrailwaymuseum.net/eq_coaltruck.html

....Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 07/10/09 18:40:24 Eastern Daylight Time, armprem2@surfglobal.net writes:
As I recall, the coal delivery trucks had several conveyors they carried
with them. I believe they were electrically operated and had corner turn
pieces as well. I don't remember any of the coal delivery guys using wheel
barrows much, but they also had them hanging off the back of the trucks. I
wonder if any coal delivery companies exists any longer?

Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC


Berlin airlift (Re: New file uploaded to STMFC)

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Well, the first Arab-Israeli war and the Berlin Airlift come immediately to mind. The US's main involvment was with the latter and I don't think it was really a war in the traditional sense of that term. Gene Green <
"Berlin in the Balance 1945-1949," Thomas Parrish, relates the details of the Berlin Airlift, places it in political context, and staggers the imagination with the story of this "airborne railroad."

Not a war in the traditional sense, but, truly, a war of nerve, nerves, and high stakes.

Before reading this book I was not familiar with the intimate details of the airlift. The logistical organization required to land a cargo aircraft every minute or so, regardless of weather, every hour of every day, week after week and month after month, is a stunning human undertaking. And, the courage required to get it done is a story unto itself.

Sixty-five people died related to the 11-month-long airlift.

Catch this railroad comparison (from the book):

"The airlift to supply the German 6th Army at the battle of Stalingrad required 300 tons of food per day and rarely came even close to delivering this; the Berlin effort would require at least 4,000 tons a day, well over ten times as much. The United States Air Force, Royal Air Force, and other Commonwealth nations flew over 200,000 flights that provided 13,000 tons of food daily, for the next year.[1] By the spring of 1949, the effort was clearly succeeding, and by April the airlift was delivering more cargo than had previously flowed into the city via rail."

-Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Re: Coal for home heating?

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

. . . We heated our huge house with  "soft" coal. . . . I recall Dad banking the furnace every night and again before going to work each morning.  He also carried out the ashes and clinkers in 5 gallon buckets.  He kept the buckets of clinkers readily available for added traction on ice and snow. . . . the small easten Indiana town in which this all happened . . . <
Am I the only one reminded of the movie, "A Christmas Story" with Darren McGavin, by this remembrance? The movie was set in Gary, Indiana, in 1947, iirc. McGavin, the dad, battled daily with the home's recalcitrant furnace. The movie is a hoot.

-Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Re: Sunshine flyer

Dennis Williams
 

John.
  I bet you can't wait for the Cents.  I can't wait either.  Are you freeing up any more of the Sunshine kits??  Dennis

--- On Sat, 7/11/09, John Golden <golden1014@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: John Golden <golden1014@yahoo.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine flyer
To: "Jerry Glow" <jerryglow@comcast.net>, stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 7:41 AM








Hi Jerry,
 
Yes, I've seen the flyer and it is good news, assuming SS actually does them.  Martin has been promising G-7 composite gondolas for some time.  The SAL G-7 and G-8 cars were virtually identical although they came from different builders and had several different ends.  The G-9s were dedicated to locomotive coal service and had extended sides (see the photo in Postwar Freight Car Fleet)--these are cool cars IMHO.  Many G-7 and G-8 cars lasted into the early 1950s.  Some were rebuilt to auto cars in the late 1930s, many wore out and were scrapped int he 40s, many wer rebuilt into wood racks, and some lasted as rebuilt cars into the early 1950s.  By about the end of 1953 all were rebuilt into G-10 all steel cars.   
 
SAL had ~280 40-ton "1923 cars" with 7-8 ends in the 4000 series.  I have always called them "GF&A cars" since they were the only SAL cars in our period of interest that did not have a car class designation.  These cars came from the SAL merger with the Georgia, Florida and Alabama Rwy in the 1920s.  Exact same cars are good for the Georgia roads too.  
 
This--along with the impending BLI Centipedes-- is good stuff!
 
John
 
John Golden
Bloomington, IN 
 

 
John Golden
Bloomington, IN

--- On Fri, 7/10/09, Jerry Glow <jerryglow@comcast. net> wrote:

From: Jerry Glow <jerryglow@comcast. net>
Subject: Sunshine flyer
To: "John Golden" <golden1014@yahoo. com>
Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 2:30 PM

Have you seen the new Sunshine "Sun" for 2009?  It contained the attached. Do you know anything about them yet?
 
Jerry Glow


Re: Critiquing Pre-production Models? (Re: "The Great Unwashed" ... E...

Greg Martin
 

Tony writes:

"Well, Brian, what would immediately happen, if the model really has much
commercial viability, is that Walthers or equivalent would rush out a
clunky, cast-on details version. Then the small guy is out of luck and the rest
of us have a marginal model. Winner? Walthers, who probably sells a ton of
them, even if not to members of this list.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA"


I am not sure that Walthers would be the culprit as I can't sight and case
here, but we have certainly seen Bachmann and IHC do this repeatedly. Case
in point the recent release of the Bachmann Baldwin Sharknose diesel and
their copy of the MDC SP Ore Jennies. IHC did this when there was a hint of
Walthers doing their first series of streamline light weight passenger
cars.





Greg Martin
**************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals.
(http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)


Re: Critiquing Pre-production Models? (Re: "The Great Unwashed" ... E...

Greg Martin
 

Brian Chapman writes in part:

"Do such manufacturers attempt to plug into the expertise residing on
sites such as this one (and the MFCL and modelintermodal lists, as further
examples)? Could not the STMFC and similar sites populated with highly
knowledgeable modelers and railroad historians have an enormous impact on the
hobby's models..."


Brian,

The simple answer is NO; with good reasoning because within hours the
conversation would break into ,"Why did that do this car and why not the XXX car
which we all need..."

Most manufacturers know the source of the information and in many cases are
willing to pay the price to obtain this information at a reasonable cost
(providing it is accurate) in order to get it done. There is a circle of
sources that they can rely on for this information and often this information
is not just a single individual but several. Ignoring these sources would
be a mistake IMHO. Individuals such as Tony Thompson, Richard Hendrickson,
Tom Madden and Ed Hawkins as well as others, and then there are historical
societies that are successful in bringing projects into view, likened to
the new to be released Baldwin Centipedes that was a cooperative effort of
the PRRT&HS modeling committee and the guys from the Seaboard as well, and
perhaps the N de M guys as well. This is the way to get it done. This
relates to close inspection and review in most cases. Often is the case that the
project has no final review before release and that to is a mistake IMHO
and often kills sales of the proejct...

Bringing a project to the masses would be a disaster as these folks would
tell you and quite frankly knowing these folks personally, they would just
simply and quietly walk away from the whole thing.

Greg Martin
**************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals.
(http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)


Re: Sunshine flyer

golden1014
 

Hi Jerry,
 
Yes, I've seen the flyer and it is good news, assuming SS actually does them.  Martin has been promising G-7 composite gondolas for some time.  The SAL G-7 and G-8 cars were virtually identical although they came from different builders and had several different ends.  The G-9s were dedicated to locomotive coal service and had extended sides (see the photo in Postwar Freight Car Fleet)--these are cool cars IMHO.  Many G-7 and G-8 cars lasted into the early 1950s.  Some were rebuilt to auto cars in the late 1930s, many wore out and were scrapped int he 40s, many wer rebuilt into wood racks, and some lasted as rebuilt cars into the early 1950s.  By about the end of 1953 all were rebuilt into G-10 all steel cars.   
 
SAL had ~280 40-ton "1923 cars" with 7-8 ends in the 4000 series.  I have always called them "GF&A cars" since they were the only SAL cars in our period of interest that did not have a car class designation.  These cars came from the SAL merger with the Georgia, Florida and Alabama Rwy in the 1920s.  Exact same cars are good for the Georgia roads too.  
 
This--along with the impending BLI Centipedes--is good stuff!
 
John
 
John Golden
Bloomington, IN 
 


 
John Golden
Bloomington, IN

--- On Fri, 7/10/09, Jerry Glow <jerryglow@comcast.net> wrote:


From: Jerry Glow <jerryglow@comcast.net>
Subject: Sunshine flyer
To: "John Golden" <golden1014@yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 2:30 PM





Have you seen the new Sunshine "Sun" for 2009?  It contained the attached. Do you know anything about them yet?
 
Jerry Glow
 
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Atlas Meat reefers

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

I passed on the above when they were released originally for some reason. I
picked up a few undecs from Lister Ray Breyer to make into Swift cars.
Looking at them now, I see they have K brakes. Did Atlas do any with AB
brakes or did they all have K brakes. I wasn't expecting to have to convert
the brakes over.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Modelers research library

Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...>
 

I looked into using some images from the St. Lawrence County Historical Society for a book and they wanted $200 per image. If I gave them 500 books to sell themselves they were going to charge me $150 per. Needless to say I did not proceed. And this group complains that noone knows the history of the area or uses their resources.

Alan

--
Alan Palmer
Ottawa, Ontario
rrgeekdev@gmail.com

Sent from my TelusMobility wireless device.

-----Original Message-----
From: water.kresse@comcast.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/11/2009 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re:Modelers research library



I have received NOT FOR PROFIT ORG, ONE TIME USE ONLY "permission to use" for photos for use in a single C&O History Magazine issue . . . usually at a no fee or very nomimal fee rate, . . . . but in a higher volume situation, they are wanting up to $300 per image to use them.  It is the bigger collections, like Corbis (already $100 not-for-profit single use [of a C&O Rwy photo used in an advertisement] for less than 5,000 copies), with Micro Soft's backing, that might make your life interesting if re-used without permission.



Al Kresse


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:57:35 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re:Modelers research library

Al Kresset wrote:
You talk about the books being copyrighted.  What about photographs  
used in those books that only had permission for that specific  
publication and had volume limits set on them.  It is not unusual to  
have permission for a maximum of 5,000 or 10,000 copies.  Or, is the  
need to have permission to use photos a "new thing"?
            You are right that photos are separate rights. The  
publisher had permission to use them in the specified publication, not  
for general use. I have not encountered limits based on printing  
quantity in our business, but we generally don't print quantities like  
10,000.

What happens if the photo rights belong to a different entity?
           They almost always do.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

Tim O'Connor
 

Kadee does custom runs -- just offer to pay more!

Tim O'Connor

At 7/11/2009 02:28 AM Saturday, you wrote:
I, and others, have lobbied Kadee for more Rutland PS-1's in the
Yellow, Green and Black scheme. The reply we've all gotten is that
their painters and assemblers would protest if they ran that
complicated scheme too soon.

I know that three numbers of their cars is not enough. :)

ALan


Re: M&StL (was the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers))

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark

Kadee requires excellent photos that show ALL of the lettering,
because they reproduce everything exactly. They may not have a
good shot of the later M&StL car. I have sent them photos they've
never seen before, and they produced a model of at least one
of them.

Tim O'Connor

It took years to get Kadee to do that M&StL red 50er. They did their PS2 covered hopper in a pre-56 paint scheme with 2 numbers I don't think it sold well. Now, if they were to do the later version of the car in the post 56 scheme....
Clark Propst


Re: Modelers research library

water.kresse@...
 

I have received NOT FOR PROFIT ORG, ONE TIME USE ONLY "permission to use" for photos for use in a single C&O History Magazine issue . . . usually at a no fee or very nomimal fee rate, . . . . but in a higher volume situation, they are wanting up to $300 per image to use them.  It is the bigger collections, like Corbis (already $100 not-for-profit single use [of a C&O Rwy photo used in an advertisement] for less than 5,000 copies), with Micro Soft's backing, that might make your life interesting if re-used without permission.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:57:35 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re:Modelers research library

Al Kresset wrote:
You talk about the books being copyrighted.  What about photographs  
used in those books that only had permission for that specific  
publication and had volume limits set on them.  It is not unusual to  
have permission for a maximum of 5,000 or 10,000 copies.  Or, is the  
need to have permission to use photos a "new thing"?
            You are right that photos are separate rights. The  
publisher had permission to use them in the specified publication, not  
for general use. I have not encountered limits based on printing  
quantity in our business, but we generally don't print quantities like  
10,000.

What happens if the photo rights belong to a different entity?
           They almost always do.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Coal for home heating?

Jeffrey White
 

I lived in a house with coal heat for awhile in the late 1960s. The coal was brought to the house by truck and to the dealer by rail. I can't imagine the dealer using more then one car full of coal a season by then.

The truck would back into the alley and they would shovel the coal down a chute into the coal bin in the basement. We had a stoker furnace and had to fill the hopper that was attached to it by hand and the auger was controlled by a thermostat to regulate the heat.

It was a dirty heat and I hated it. Being 13 at the time one of my chores was to fill the hopper and take the klinkers out of the furnace. I wondered then how steam locomotives burned the coal so completely that it burned to ash they could dump and the furnace produced klinkers.

This was in Belleville IL just across the river from St Louis. The dealer was located on the IC line, but I never was by there when a rail car was on the siding so I don't know whose car made the delivery. I'm going to guess it came in an IC car as they were still hauling coal on that line to the big barge loading facilty that used to be on the East St Louis side of the river.

Jeff White
Alma IL

Victor Bitleris wrote:

As I recall, the coal delivery trucks had several conveyors they carried with them. I believe they were electrically operated and had corner turn pieces as well. I don't remember any of the coal delivery guys using wheel barrows much, but they also had them hanging off the back of the trucks. I wonder if any coal delivery companies exists any longer?

Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: jimandlisa97225@verizon.net
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:49:40 -0700
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?






















I too used an ex coal bin as my hobby room when I was young. A work table

across one end and lots of display shelves around the rest of the

approximately 6x12 room. What I have never wondered until now is How did the

coal get into that bin? The window was on the side of the house more than

100 feet from the alley. Wheelbarrow? Wow, that would have been a lot of

work.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon

www.sunshinekits.com


















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------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: Modelers research library

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Kresset wrote:
You talk about the books being copyrighted. What about photographs used in those books that only had permission for that specific publication and had volume limits set on them. It is not unusual to have permission for a maximum of 5,000 or 10,000 copies. Or, is the need to have permission to use photos a "new thing"?
You are right that photos are separate rights. The publisher had permission to use them in the specified publication, not for general use. I have not encountered limits based on printing quantity in our business, but we generally don't print quantities like 10,000.

What happens if the photo rights belong to a different entity?
They almost always do.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...>
 

I, and others, have lobbied Kadee for more Rutland PS-1's in the
Yellow, Green and Black scheme. The reply we've all gotten is that
their painters and assemblers would protest if they ran that
complicated scheme too soon.

I know that three numbers of their cars is not enough. :)

ALan


On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 11:25 PM, rockroll50401<cepropst@netconx.net> wrote:
I'm with Gene.
When IM came out with the ART car in meat reefer paint schemes all the locals here were interested in is if the paint schemes match those in Gene Reefer book. They came to my house with cars in hand to look at the book. They held the models up next to the photos and were happy. They could care less if the car was accurate. It was close enough. Just what IM had in mind.

It took years to get Kadee to do that M&StL red 50er. They did their PS2 covered hopper in a pre-56 paint scheme with 2 numbers I don't think it sold well. Now, if they were to do the later version of the car in the post 56 scheme....
Clark Propst



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





--
--
Alan Palmer
http://rrgeekdev.googlepages.com/home


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jim Yaworsky wrote:
Small steps, to be sure. But I like to delude myself that it all adds up... the goal being to encourage the manufacturers to do the best models that they can.
I think you're entirely right, Jim. If mfgrs. got more kudos when it's right, instead of only brickbats when stuff is NOT right, it could only help. Especially at those mfgrs. who let sales guys dictate model paint schemes--which is certainly a lot of them, if not close to all of them.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: "The Great Unwashed"....Educatable???

James Yaworsky
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
And the problem, in most cases, isn't the R&D people, who
are generally competent and know where to get correct prototype
data. It's the sales guys, who typically get input mostly from hobby
shop owners and who figure that only a handful of us nut cases know
or care whether what they produce is accurate or not, so the hell
with it.

Along these lines, I always make it a point to tell my local hobby shop owner why I'm ordering what I order. And I also tell them when they show me something that they've got in that I know is wrong, why I'm not going to buy it, despite the fact it's "all decorated up for my favourite road".

I think I've made some progress because now when the owner approaches me to ask if I know that "product 'x'" is coming out, she also asks me if I know whether it's "correct" or not - and she knows if the answer is "no", that I'm not buying!

I've also noticed that often when I order something now, she orders a few more for the store's general stock. She's told me that this other stuff generally sells off fast - partly because she approaches persons she knows have the same focus as me and assures them that the model is "correct". She also likes to show items she's holding for me to these people, because often they'll order it themselves as a result. On a few occasions, she's even asked if I'll leave it with her for a few weeks for that specific purpose - foregoing instant cash flow to hopefully drum up more sales. Now that's faith!

There was some initial controversy over the colours of the two-tone grey cars on the recent Walthers 20th Century Limited release, and the word was spread that apparently Walthers was really getting nervous about some of the negative feedback they were getting. I, along with others, therefore made a point of e-mailing Walthers. In my case, I said that the NYC passenger car experts were fairly unanimous that the scheme used was the most correct to date, and that was good enough for me so I had pre-ordered the entire set. I got a grateful acknowledgment from Walthers, so I was glad I did it.

Small steps, to be sure. But I like to delude myself that it all adds up... the goal being to encourage the manufacturers to do the best models that they can.

Jim Yaworsky


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I'm with Gene.
When IM came out with the ART car in meat reefer paint schemes all the locals here were interested in is if the paint schemes match those in Gene Reefer book. They came to my house with cars in hand to look at the book. They held the models up next to the photos and were happy. They could care less if the car was accurate. It was close enough. Just what IM had in mind.

It took years to get Kadee to do that M&StL red 50er. They did their PS2 covered hopper in a pre-56 paint scheme with 2 numbers I don't think it sold well. Now, if they were to do the later version of the car in the post 56 scheme....
Clark Propst


Re: the Great Unwashed (was NYC hoppers)

W.R.Dixon
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Exactrail does sell through hobby shops at short discount -
like Intermountain, Kadee and Red Caboose. Tangent does not.
There is the problem, a short discount. Add in that you have to pay the freight and you are closing in on no discount. That means no profit. No profit means a store will not stock it. Add in a requirement to buy a LARGE minimum amount of their product in a year and that adds up to no sale.

A pity because they are very good products and should be in stores.

Bill Dixon

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