Date   

Re: Atlas 40' USRA rebuild

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

A glance at the other model building fields would show that in car, ship and airplane modeling, for the most part, the models produced are much more accurate than the railroad models. Why can't we have the same standard of excellence and care in this field?<
Because if those models were wrong the manufactures would sell zero or close to it. For some reason yet to be explained model railroaders are different. Maybe it's because most started with tinplate and just never got out of the mold!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Atlas 40' USRA rebuild

Stokes John
 

OK, I have been reading the threads relating to the lack of fidelity to prototype when various manufacturers issue new or revised production runs. If it is true (and I have some questions about this), that it would not cost much more, if anything, to do it right, why do the manufacturers persist in their illogical behavior? I think it is correct that the average model railroader wound not know the difference, and would purchase the better made model if it were price. Is there such a disconnect between modelers who could and do supply the correct information and the manufacturers, what can be done to close the gap? If it would take the same effort and capital to produce an accurate model, what is the problem?

A glance at the other model building fields would show that in car, ship and airplane modeling, for the most part, the models produced are much more accurate than the railroad models. Why can't we have the same standard of excellence and care in this field?

Just wondering.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: b.hom@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:13:05 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Atlas 40' USRA rebuild


























Tim O'Connor wrote:

"any particular prototype?"

http://www.pbase.com/tom_murray/image/114848321



No. This is the same abortion as the earlier S Helper Service, Atlas O, and Atlas N scale models now in HO that doesn't model anything. See my post #23214 from 2003 for detailed discussion about this model.



"i'm guessing this is the CMO/RI car..."



You're guessing wrong. Wrong roof, wrong ends, wrong height.



Ben Hom


Re: Atlas 40' USRA rebuild

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"any particular prototype?"
http://www.pbase.com/tom_murray/image/114848321

No. This is the same abortion as the earlier S Helper Service, Atlas O, and Atlas N scale models now in HO that doesn't model anything. See my post #23214 from 2003 for detailed discussion about this model.


"i'm guessing this is the CMO/RI car..."

You're guessing wrong. Wrong roof, wrong ends, wrong height.


Ben Hom


Re: Atlas 40' USRA rebuild

Tim O'Connor
 

I looked more carefully at a sidelong photo of a CMO car. The
side sill is deeply inset, and the brackets are actually triangular
castings of some kind. They are open not solid - you can see light
showing through them in the photo. I don't think Sunshine did those
exactly right either... :-&#92;

Tim O'Connor

Tim: From Ben Hom on the PRR Modeling list today and this list back in 2003.
The question asked if the cars could model the PRR X26C.
Dave, I recommend you go back to the pubs and reconsider. The Atlas O and N
scale USRA rebuilt boxcar models are hermaphrodites that don't model ANY
prototype, much less the PRR Class X26C rebuilt USRA SS boxcars.


Re: Atlas 40' USRA rebuild

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

Tim: From Ben Hom on the PRR Modeling list today and this list back in 2003.
The question asked if the cars could model the PRR X26C.

Dave, I recommend you go back to the pubs and reconsider. The Atlas O and N
scale USRA rebuilt boxcar models are hermaphrodites that don't model ANY
prototype, much less the PRR Class X26C rebuilt USRA SS boxcars. The
following is from my post on STMFC in 2003 (Message 23214) about the O scale
model (and the S Helper Service S scale model that it was copied from) when
it was first introduced:


First, some quick notes on rebuilt boxcars:
Even though Youngstown marketed kits to the railroads during the
1930s to rebuild single- and double-sheathed boxcars, each individual
railroad approached rebuilding cars in a different manner, with some
roads simply replacing the sides while retaining the original roof
and ends; others replacing the sides and roof while retaining the
ends, and one (KCS) doing a USRA DS rebuild in 1949 by fitting a
modern boxcar body, ends and all on top of the old underframe. Almost
all rebuilds increased the height of the car, and railroads took
different approaches to making the ends taller, with some adding a
blank panel and others splicing in sections of Murphy ends. The cars
were also widened - a reliable spotting feature shared by almost all
rebuilt SS or DS boxcars is an indented side sill with trapezoidal or
triangular brackets supporting the new steel sides. The wider cars
required end modifications as well - most railroads simply used an
angle to join the ends to the side creating an indent there, but
some roads [such as the PRR] used sheet metal to widen the ends
creating a more familiar square corner. The original trucks were
almost always reused; the underframe was always reused, though at
least two roads rebuilt these cars a second time in the late '50s-
early 60s with new underframes (some WAB cars with gon underframes,
PRR X26C ->X26F). The net result is that rebuilt boxcars were unique
to each railroad. For a more detailed account of USRA DS rebuilds,
see "Steel Side USRA Rebuilds," Parts 1 and 2 by Martin Lofton
in the September and October 1989 Railroad Model Craftsman.

The Models: Both models has some serious problems with the sides. The
model has eight-panel steel sides, which is correct for many of the
rebuilds except those who used ten-panel sides (ATSF, PRR). However,
the sides have two problems. First, the side sills are incorrect
for the vast majority of SS or DS rebuilds - there is no noticeable
inset, and the brackets are actually closer to those used on Pennsy
Class X29 rebuilds. Most SS or DS rebuilds used triangular or
trapezoidal brackets. Without this inset, the car is too narrow and
fails to capture the look of a wider new carbody fitted to a narrow
older underframe. In fact, these models retain the "sunken cheek"
look of a SS boxcar (the effect is worse on the S Helper Service car).

Both model share the same details:
Roof: Original USRA steel sheathed roof.
Ends: Unmodified 5/5/5 Murphy ends.
Sides: Eight-panel sides. No distinct inset side sill. T-section
support brackets.
Underframe: USRA SS car (some S Helper Service roadnames have the
fishbelly underframe)

This model is closest to the ACL 46000-46949, C&WC 8000-8299, and SL-
SF 127000-130499 USRA DS rebuilds; however, the side sills are wrong
and the model lacks the heavy fishbelly underframe of the DS
rebuilds. (Both model's roofs are correct for these rebuilds, as they
reused the original roof; however, all other road's rebuilds replaced
the roof with all-steel types.)

These models are incorrect for all of the other paint schemes
offered, differing mainly in roof, ends, underframe, and in the case
of the PRR and ATSF cars, car sides.

The bottom line:
- Neither model out of the box is an exact match for any prototype.
- Neither model really captures the "wider body on an narrow
underframe look." I've uploaded a side-by-side comparison of the
closest prototypes and both models in the STMFC files section.


Since I posted this e-mail, Larry Kline modified an Atlas O scale model with
new side sills to more closely match the ACL/C&WC and SL-SF "basic"
rebuilds; however, if you're looking for an injection-molded styrene RTR
Class X26C boxcar, this ain't going to answer the mail.


Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:00 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Atlas 40' USRA rebuild

any particular prototype?
http://www.pbase.com/tom_murray/image/114848321
i'm guessing this is the CMO/RI car...

Tim O'Connor


Re: Coal Car Loading on "home" road

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

The CPR in Eastern Quebec got coal in B&O hoppers, as some Richard
Hastings photos show.
Quite a bit of soft coal was mined on Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia,
served by its own pretty heavy duty coal road, the Sydney & Louisburg
RR. I have no idea where it was principally used, but inasmuch as the
only railroad connecting road was the CN, I would presume that they
would likely have been a major customer.

BTW, the S&L was one of the last holdouts in steam, making do well
into the '60s with a variety of second hand locomotives, primarily C&O
and some NYC, if I recall correctly. I have no idea whether that coal
was shipped out in CN or S&L hoppers.

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Atlas 40' USRA rebuild

Tim O'Connor
 

any particular prototype?
http://www.pbase.com/tom_murray/image/114848321
i'm guessing this is the CMO/RI car...

Tim O'Connor


Re: Coal for home heating?

Malcolm H. Houck
 

The coal we burned was anthracite most of the
time. My assumption is that the coal would have traveled via NYC hoppers
to a dealer in Chelsea or Everett.


The iconic "Anthony's Pier 4 Restaurant" is actually located
on what was formerly "NYNH&H Coal Pier 4." The New Haven
had a connection to Maybrook, across the Pooghkepsie Bridge,
and could've handled Erie or L&NE originated anthracite, but the
most common source of hard coal in the Boston area was
D&H branded Anthracite (shipped and delivered complete
with "Hudson Coal Company" orange cardboard discs
[similar to beer coasters] as re-order advertising).

Dickson & Eddy had a coal pier in Boston Harbor as well, and that
firm handled NYO&W anthracite.......some of it barged all the way from
NYO&W piers in New York Harbor, or up on the Hudson at Cornwall.

Mal Houck
**************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists on
tour at TourTracker.com.
(http://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000006)


Re: Coal for home heating?

Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
 

We also heated by soft coal in the early 50s, then we switched to coke. This was Everett Mass., and the coke was from Glendale Coal and Coke located at the EG&F Coke Works in Everett. Solid coke trains shipped out every day from the "Works" on both the B&A (25-40 cars), and the B&M (20-25 cars) to local New England coke merchants.
Norm Larkin

----- Original Message -----
From: <mhts_switzerm@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?



Denny's comment took me back to my childhood in the 1950's and 1960's. We heated our huge house with "soft" coal. There was a large furnace that shared the basement with my model railroad. I recall Dad banking the furnace every night and again before going to work each morning. He also carried out the ashes and clinkers in 5 gallon buckets. He kept the buckets of clinkers readily available for added traction on ice and snow.

The coal came from the local elevator and was deliveered from a truck with a special steel bed that would raise like a dump truck, but the rear opening was the size of the coal door in the side of the house. The coal was dumped down a schute carried on the truck through the coal door into the terrifying confines of the coal room in the basement.

Mom always complained about coal dust after a delivery was made, but I don't recall any problem with the model railroad.

And of ocurse the small easten Indiana town in which this all happened was on the NYC Indianapolis to Springfield, OH line. The coal was delivered to the local elevator in L&N 2 bay steel hoppers. A local guy was paid $50.00 to unload one with the help of an elevator. he was black head to foot when he finished.

--- On Thu, 7/9/09, Denny Anspach <danspach@macnexus.org> wrote:


From: Denny Anspach <danspach@macnexus.org>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 5:57 PM








I heated my home in northern Vermont in the '80s with hand-bombed
anthracite. Very hot, and also relatively clean; and when banked, the
fire could last for up to 48 hrs. without touching. Good stuff.

Denny






















------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Hoppers, ca. 1950

Dave Nelson
 

Being a western railroad buff, hoppers have not been on my radar as far as
leaning anything but the threads these past few days have convinved me that
perhaps that filtering was unwise... not because hoppers came to the west
coast in numbers worth mentioning, but that a well rounded knowledge of
steam era freight cars dictates at least a conversational level of knowledge
of these criters (n.b., the same logic applies to you eastern rr buffs who
have distained GS gons).

So, having revealed my ignorance... The question:

What are the various designs of hopper models, available in HO scale, that
are both reasonably accurate and of sufficient numbers ca. 1950 that I
should know? And perhaps the same question for ca. 1940.

Dave Nelson


Re: Coal for home heating?

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Steve,

         The blue spray was an identifier for the coal co. It has been printed
that the blue was a way to note pilferage, not a dust covering. In fact,
most times it was blue dots, not an overall paint job of the load. Blue
Coal was a trade name, so they made sure it looked blue when delivered.

Fred Freitas




________________________________
From: Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@yahoo.ca>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 1:15:30 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Coal for home heating?





Would the blue paint/dye spray on top of carloads of coal from certain distributors have served to bind the top of a load of coal and lessen dust production while in transit?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...> wrote:


I'm surprised if very fine coal was shipped in hoppers. I
can imagine some moisture (rain or snow) followed by a hard
freeze would turn that entire load into a solid block of
ice! (Larger size coal was far less likely to freeze solid
because of the air spaces between the chunks.)

Tim O'Connor



At 7/10/2009 01:03 PM Friday, you wrote:
Al Kresse:
Nobody has mentioned "stokers" for their furnaces. The 1935 "Stoker Coal, C&O Lines" booklet I was referencing showed home furnaces with a box on the side of of the furnace that automatically feed the furnace . . . . and with the entire family playing in the basement around the clean furnace.
We had a stoker on our coal furnace. Our house was completed in the summer of 1942 so the furnace dated from that time. IIRC the stoker was mounted on the side of and open to the coal bin. It was gravity fed, so the only time you had to actually shovel coal was when the level got way down in the bin. Since my dad was the coal dealer, and the shoveler if it came to that, he made sure the bin was always full. I don't think nut coal (the largest we carried) would work in household stokers. I think we burned rice. In any event, I shouldn't think sizes smaller than nut (the previously mentioned pea, rice and buckwheat) would heap well in a hopper, so a load of such coal might appear flatter and have a much finer texture than what we modelers are used to seeing.

Tom Madden


Re: Modelers research library

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Alan Palmer wrote:
Anything I have dealt with, if we offered to kick over 20 or 25 copies of th publication, the fee would be waved. Without the SLHS photos we could proceed on the book so it was cancelled. The publisher told me several explitives for the fee per photo.
It's true that some archives will accept copies instead of a fee, but major ones DO tend to have a fee, and it's rarely waived. However, they usually offer a reduced fee for non-profit publication (Signature Press is not intentionally a non-profit), and many also will negotiate a "volume discount," lower cost per photo as the total number of photos used gets larger.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Critiquing Pre-production Models? (Re: "The Great Unwashed" ... Educatable?)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Brian Chapman wrote:
Say that a small-business manufacturer has 3D art, or better yet, a pre-production model of a steam-era freight car. Would those here with specific knowledge be willing to critique the model for accuracy if artwork were uploaded to the Photos / Files sections?
Well, Brian, what would immediately happen, if the model really has much commercial viability, is that Walthers or equivalent would rush out a clunky, cast-on details version. Then the small guy is out of luck and the rest of us have a marginal model. Winner? Walthers, who probably sells a ton of them, even if not to members of this list.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Modelers research library

Alan Palmer <rrgeekdev@...>
 

Anything I have dealt with, if we offered to kick over 20 or 25 copies of th publication, the fee would be waved. Without the SLHS photos we could proceed on the book so it was cancelled. The publisher told me several explitives for the fee per photo.

Alan

--
Alan Palmer
Ottawa, Ontario
rrgeekdev@gmail.com

Sent from my TelusMobility wireless device.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/11/2009 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re:Modelers research library

Alan Palmer wrote:
I looked into using some images from the St. Lawrence County
Historical Society for a book and they wanted $200 per image. If I
gave them 500 books to sell themselves they were going to charge me
$150 per. Needless to say I did not proceed. And this group
complains that noone knows the history of the area or uses their
resources.
That's a new high price for me, Alan. I was upset when the San
Francisco Chronicle wanted $125 each for photos from their morgue,
long-ago news photos. We used the absolute MINIMUM we needed, I can
tell you.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Critiquing Pre-production Models? (Re: "The Great Unwashed" ... Educatable?)

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Also, as modelers get pickier, the market shrinks, thus making it less attractive for a manufacturer to invest in tooling for a given model. <
I think many of us don't believe this. It's been said for a long time the cost to make a model right is the same as making it wrong. "Pickier" might refer to details but in most cases it cost the same to cut the molds. <<
So, what are the best ways available for manufacturers to "get it right"?

Assuming that a manufacturer (I'm imagining a small, cottage-type business with a limited R&D budget) has done a fine job collecting published data and documentation, it seems nevertheless that accuracy errors are inevitable (particularly if real life examples of the subject matter aren't available for inspection).

Do such manufacturers attempt to plug into the expertise residing on sites such as this one (and the MFCL and modelintermodal lists, as further examples)? Could not the STMFC and similar sites populated with highly knowledgeable modelers and railroad historians have an enormous impact on the hobby's models?

Say that a small-business manufacturer has 3D art, or better yet, a pre-production model of a steam-era freight car. Would those here with specific knowledge be willing to critique the model for accuracy if artwork were uploaded to the Photos / Files sections?

Rather than make it a hit-or-miss affair, might there be a way to formalize such critiquing work? Such as a certain type of message subject header to create a unified thread, for example: PROJECT EVALUATION: NYC's offset twin hopper

Sanction by and support of the list owner and the moderators, it seems to me, would be crucial to making this a successful process.

The bottomline, it seems to me, is to find the best route possible to correct profound freight car errors before they reach production, avoiding much of the meltdown that so often occurs after the release of a model (see: MFCL discussion of recent ExactRail covered hopper release).

Some manufacturers will not reveal project information in advance of production. Others, though, might be willing to give critiquing a try -- at least on a one-time basis to test the process, particularly if the design work on a model is so far advanced that the company will reach production before it can be overtaken by a competitor's product.

So, is their a way to tap into modeler expertise, and to do it in a way that's methodical and accepted?

-Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Re: Coal for home heating?

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Would the blue paint/dye spray on top of carloads of coal from certain distributors have served to bind the top of a load of coal and lessen dust production while in transit?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I'm surprised if very fine coal was shipped in hoppers. I
can imagine some moisture (rain or snow) followed by a hard
freeze would turn that entire load into a solid block of
ice! (Larger size coal was far less likely to freeze solid
because of the air spaces between the chunks.)

Tim O'Connor



At 7/10/2009 01:03 PM Friday, you wrote:
Al Kresse:
Nobody has mentioned "stokers" for their furnaces. The 1935 "Stoker Coal, C&O Lines" booklet I was referencing showed home furnaces with a box on the side of of the furnace that automatically feed the furnace . . . . and with the entire family playing in the basement around the clean furnace.
We had a stoker on our coal furnace. Our house was completed in the summer of 1942 so the furnace dated from that time. IIRC the stoker was mounted on the side of and open to the coal bin. It was gravity fed, so the only time you had to actually shovel coal was when the level got way down in the bin. Since my dad was the coal dealer, and the shoveler if it came to that, he made sure the bin was always full. I don't think nut coal (the largest we carried) would work in household stokers. I think we burned rice. In any event, I shouldn't think sizes smaller than nut (the previously mentioned pea, rice and buckwheat) would heap well in a hopper, so a load of such coal might appear flatter and have a much finer texture than what we modelers are used to seeing.

Tom Madden


Re: Coal Car Loading on "home" road

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

The CPR in Eastern Quebec got coal in B&O hoppers, as some Richard Hastings photos show.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Murray" <murrayclan03@...> wrote:

We can build exact models of a wide variety of coal cars, but the next question is: what routes did they use once the cars were off home road property? How did DL&W or RDG ship to say Montreal? D&H had their own line into Montreal, as well as the NYC, but what of the others? I have a special interest in coal going North to Montreal because I model the NYC St Lawrence Division in 1957. Dick Murray


Re: Modelers research library

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

One name says it all--Disney.

And those interested in publishing historical photos and other works have been caught up in the maelstrom created by bad legislation.

Canadian photo copyright has 1 January, 1948 as the defining date--for now.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:

Gene Green wrote:
Ray,
The PDF idea is a good one for those books and other publications on
which the copyright is expired (is expired the correct term?) but
everything published since sometime in the 1970s could not be
"legally" scanned.
Gene, that is not correct. It is my understanding the Congress granted
protection retroactivily to anything that *might* have been in the last
weeks of protection as of 1977... Which translates to 1921. Given that
less than 4% of all works requested a second 28 year term what that means is
~96% of everything copyrighted in the period between 1921 and 1979 *was* in
(or about to be in) the public domain as of 1977 this retroactive change of
status removed **all of that stuff** from the public and returned it to...
Who knows? But you have to find out who before you make that .pdf. Can
you say "Orphaned Works"? Well, just another fine example of our congress
at work! So FWIW, if you tick off the years since that steaming heap of
"logic" became law, I believe the cutoff date is now up to ~1930-32.

Dave Nelson
P.S. In their "wisdom" congress has also granted this missive copyright
protection for my lifetime plus 70 years. Ain't it great they got all the
real problems solved so they had time to grant automatic protection to this
post?


Re: Modelers research library

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Alan Palmer wrote:
I looked into using some images from the St. Lawrence County Historical Society for a book and they wanted $200 per image. If I gave them 500 books to sell themselves they were going to charge me $150 per. Needless to say I did not proceed. And this group complains that noone knows the history of the area or uses their resources.
That's a new high price for me, Alan. I was upset when the San Francisco Chronicle wanted $125 each for photos from their morgue, long-ago news photos. We used the absolute MINIMUM we needed, I can tell you.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Coal for home heating?

MDelvec952
 

Amand's description of the metal chutes on these specialized coal delivery trucks best fits the description in the Anthracite belt coal dealers. These chutes had enough curveable joints in so they could reach almost any basement window -- it was always in the homeowner's interest to arrange the basement and coal bunker for easy access to a coal truck.

In 1990 I was driving between Scranton and nearby Taylor Yard and saw one of the old scissors dump trucks that had stopped traffic and had backed into someone's front yard. His bed was up, and he manipulated the chute which curved and telescoped as needed, then lifted the slide and the coal slid freely. The whole process was over before I could get close with a camera, but I did get a couple of pictures of the truck and the house from a distance. It was news to me that homes were still coal fired at that time. And it turns out that homes can still be coal fired. Some modern stoves have automatic firing, stoking and ash removal.

The Whippany Railroad Museum in New Jersey has a coal truck from a local coal dealer who actually received hopper cars in Denville into the 1960s and was a long-time Blue Coal (DL&W trademark) dealer. A link is at:

http://www.whippanyrailwaymuseum.net/eq_coaltruck.html

....Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 07/10/09 18:40:24 Eastern Daylight Time, armprem2@surfglobal.net writes:
As I recall, the coal delivery trucks had several conveyors they carried
with them. I believe they were electrically operated and had corner turn
pieces as well. I don't remember any of the coal delivery guys using wheel
barrows much, but they also had them hanging off the back of the trucks. I
wonder if any coal delivery companies exists any longer?

Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC

109361 - 109380 of 192622