Date   

Re: Patent Model of Railroad Truck

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Quite a high asking price for such a crude model. I suppose that the reserve price may be what it is due to the patent documentation that comes with the model.

As for this patent being issued "just before WWI", that threw this Canadian for a loop. The UK, Canada, and Australia (a few citizens of each are on this list) were involved in WWI from 1914-18.

Steve Lucas
Ingersoll, Ontario, Canada.

--- In STMFC@..., "cvsne" <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:

Currently up for auction on eBay (no, it's not my auction and I have no idea
who's it is) is an unusual truck patent, along with the concept model.

You can see it here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220450004938

Patent applicant is a Mr. Walther Chalfent of Brownsville, PA and the truck has an unusual double sideframe design (essentially, there are sideframes on both sides of the wheels. The patent application dates from just before World War I - 1915-16.

From the side the sideframes look similar to more contemporary trucks, but no specific features that scream "here is the origins of "XX" truck can be readily identified from the images with the auction. I'd say most likely this is an interesting concept that proved unworkable, too costly, or unreliable and therefore never got beyond the patent/prototype stage.

Thought some of the truck historians on this list would be interested and perhaps some may know better than I if anything came of this design - or the patent applicant.

Marty McGuirk


Re: Sunshine XM-1 BAR boxcars

Marty McGuirk
 

Jim,

Assuming your post is accurately quoting the Sunshine flyer (I don't have it in front of me) I'd venture a guess that there's a typo on the flyer and it should read "1000-1500"!

Yes, the cars were renumbered (a process which took several years based on photos that we know were taken in early 1957 with one of cars clearly visible numbered in the 1000-series.

This is a true signature car for the railroad, and I'm glad to see some "state of the art" cars of this type becoming available. Naturally, I just about finished upgrading two old Yankee Clipper models I have. If Murphy keeps plotting against me once I buy some of these new Sunshine kits then someone will release them in plastic!

Marty


Patent Model of Railroad Truck

Marty McGuirk
 

Currently up for auction on eBay (no, it's not my auction and I have no idea
who's it is) is an unusual truck patent, along with the concept model.

You can see it here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220450004938

Patent applicant is a Mr. Walther Chalfent of Brownsville, PA and the truck has an unusual double sideframe design (essentially, there are sideframes on both sides of the wheels. The patent application dates from just before World War I - 1915-16.

From the side the sideframes look similar to more contemporary trucks, but no specific features that scream "here is the origins of "XX" truck can be readily identified from the images with the auction. I'd say most likely this is an interesting concept that proved unworkable, too costly, or unreliable and therefore never got beyond the patent/prototype stage.

Thought some of the truck historians on this list would be interested and perhaps some may know better than I if anything came of this design - or the patent applicant.

Marty McGuirk


Re: HO Tichy tank car underframe...

Barry Bennett <Barrybennetttoo@...>
 

Apologies to one and all re this message, and especially to Steve.

By dint of the inevitable coincidence I was in email conversation with somebody who is fairly new to modelling US railroads and we were have a fairly superficial chat establishing a general timeline for freight cars in general terms.

My Web browser threw up Steve's message which I assumed was part of my conversation.

NOTE TO SELF 1:- Check message address before sending.

NOTE TO SELF 3:- It may be wiser to hold conversations through email site rather than Web browser.

Retires to corner in embarrassment.

Mind you, the replies are, as usual, full of excellent information which I will one day put to use in my model railroad.

Barry Bennett

-- In STMFC@..., "barrybennetttoo" <Barrybennetttoo@...> wrote:

Not a hope.



The Tichy car is bogus, it was a design by AAR which was never taken up,
although a smallish number of similar cars were built for the US military.
These cars were designed for use (if I remember correctly) somewhere about
the time of WW2. By this time the tank car nomenclature was Type 103, 105
etc, each being represented by the Red Caboose type 103W (W for welded) and
the Atlas Type 105 insulated tank car.



The 'Type 11' description relates to an ACF car based on drawings
implemented in 1911, hence the '11'. The Proto 2000 tank car is a Type 21,
drawing implemented in, you guessed it, 1921, the Intermountain car a Type
27.



The main problem is that these are all ACF cars but the greatest part of the
tank car fleet was UTLX. Only Speedwitch Media and Sunshine Models do
significant alternatives.



Barry Bennett



-------Original Message-------



From: Steve Lucas

Date: 07/14/09 21:07:34

To: STMFC@...

Subject: [STMFC] HO Tichy tank car underframe...









I was reading the latest RMC today, starting with Ted Cullota's article on
modelling AC&F Type 11 tank cars.



Comments, please, on using the Tichy tank car underframe for modelling that
on AC&F built Type 11 cars? Accurate/needs some work/needs a lot of
work/totally useless?



Thanks in advance,



Steve Lucas.










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Resin report

seaboard_1966
 

I have found myself on a bit of a building spree lately. Here is what I have accomplished.

1 WrightTRAK FGE mechanical reefer. This is the first one of three that I need to build. This is a pretty nice kit with lots of etched parts including ladders, grabs, sill steps and brake rigging. I found this kit enjoyable to build and it took about 4 or so days of working here and working there.

2 WrightTRAK Southern Railway woodrack. If there were a shake the box resin kit this would be it. Theese kits were done by Jim King and I must say he did a GREAT job. It goes together easily and is a two night kit. These cars represent cars that were rebuilt from obsolete boxcars. These are available in either Southern Railroad Roman, as delivered, of Southern Block lettering. C&O lettering is also available as some of these cars ended up on the C&O

3 Central of Georgia Historical Society CofGa woodrack. Another Jim King and another breeze. Clean up is mininal and the car just goes together easily. As I said, I got this one from the CofGa HS and I don't know if they are currently available. Again, like the Southern car mentioned above, these kits represent cars rebuilt from obsolete cars. This time it was from ventilated boxcars.

4 Southern Railway low side gon. This is another Im King product and another one that simply flies together. Again minimal clean up and just a two evening kit.

5 I also built a pilot model for a new WrightTRAK kit which we will be announcing shortly. I found this kit to be a couple of evenings kit as well. It features all of the usual WrightTRAK traits. More on this when we can announce it. Lets just say that this car comes up from time to time on this list.

Now, all I have to do is arrange time to get all of these painted.

We well be atttending the show at Naperville this fall. I look foward to seeing you all there.

Denis Blake
Marketing Director
WrightTRAK Railroad Models, LLC


Re: HO Tichy tank car underframe...

feddersenmark
 

After reading Ted's article in the latest RMC, I was wondering the same thing. I have not had time to study the details and dimensions of the Type 11 underframe in depth, but at first glance it appears doable with not much work. One detail that stands out is the lightly constructed side sills and only 4 rivets at the end of the bolster compared to 6 for the Tichy underframe. I suspect the ends of the frames are also different than the Tichy car, but that should be an easy fix. I will be using the Tichy frame when I do these cars, mainly because I have a ton of the Tichy cars, I don't want to buy the F&C cars just for the frame and I prefer working with styrene. Mark Feddersen

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

I was reading the latest RMC today, starting with Ted Cullota's article on modelling AC&F Type 11 tank cars.

Comments, please, on using the Tichy tank car underframe for modelling that on AC&F built Type 11 cars? Accurate/needs some work/needs a lot of work/totally useless?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Lucas.


Re: Interested in visiting Michigan STMFC hotspots

Tim O'Connor
 

Northern or Southern Peninsula? :-)

At 7/14/2009 05:26 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
I am making my 2009 Naperville plans, and I am interested in visiting Michigan to, among other things, look at areas of interest to a STMFC'er. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Sunshine XM-1 BAR boxcars

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

I compared the road names on the Sunshine flyer for the XM-1 bpxcar with pratt truss against my 1955 ORER CD from Westerfield. The Sunshine flyer lists the number series for BAR as 61100-599. There were no cars in this number series for BAR in the 1955 CD.

I checked the RPI site and discovered these cars were renumbered. There are some photos on the pay side circa 1950 and later with these cars being in the 1000 series and 3000 series.

I then checked this against the 1955 ORER CD, which indicates the 1000-1599 are "old numbers" and 3000-3599 are "new numbers." Presumably, some of these cars could have carried three different road numbers.

According to the ORER, BAR had 572 on the roster in 1955.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


Re: HO Tichy tank car underframe...

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I used a Tichy underframe and either a RC or IM tank. The problem is this car has been in the construction bin so long I forgot what I was doing. My understanding is the Tichy underframe is good but not with the tank that's on it.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: HO Tichy tank car underframe...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Barry Bennett wrote:
The Tichy car is bogus, it was a design by AAR which was never taken up, although a smallish number of similar cars were built for the US military. These cars were designed for use (if I remember correctly) somewhere about
the time of WW2.
Good basic thought, Barry, but wrong agency and wrong war <g>. It's a USRA tank car, circa WW I, and was never built by the USRA. What you're remembering is the similar though not identical Ware Emergency tank cars of WW II.

By this time the tank car nomenclature was Type 103, 105 etc, each being represented by the Red Caboose type 103W (W for welded) and the Atlas Type 105 insulated tank car.
The Red Caboose car is a relatively rare prototype of circa 1950 or later. The At;as car is only one (and a rather large one) of the various Type 105 designs.
All that said, the Tichy UNDERFRAME is not at all bad. Numerous authors, including Mark Feddersen, have used it over the years for kitbashed tank cars.
(Normally I'd wait for Richard Hendrickson to answer this, but I know he's en route to the Santa Fe meet.)

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Interested in visiting Michigan STMFC hotspots

Andy Carlson
 

I am making my 2009 Naperville plans, and I am interested in visiting Michigan to, among other things, look at areas of interest to a STMFC'er. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: HO Tichy tank car underframe...

barrybennetttoo <Barrybennetttoo@...>
 

Not a hope.



The Tichy car is bogus, it was a design by AAR which was never taken up,
although a smallish number of similar cars were built for the US military.
These cars were designed for use (if I remember correctly) somewhere about
the time of WW2. By this time the tank car nomenclature was Type 103, 105
etc, each being represented by the Red Caboose type 103W (W for welded) and
the Atlas Type 105 insulated tank car.



The 'Type 11' description relates to an ACF car based on drawings
implemented in 1911, hence the '11'. The Proto 2000 tank car is a Type 21,
drawing implemented in, you guessed it, 1921, the Intermountain car a Type
27.



The main problem is that these are all ACF cars but the greatest part of the
tank car fleet was UTLX. Only Speedwitch Media and Sunshine Models do
significant alternatives.



Barry Bennett

-------Original Message-------



From: Steve Lucas

Date: 07/14/09 21:07:34

To: STMFC@...

Subject: [STMFC] HO Tichy tank car underframe...









I was reading the latest RMC today, starting with Ted Cullota's article on
modelling AC&F Type 11 tank cars.



Comments, please, on using the Tichy tank car underframe for modelling that
on AC&F built Type 11 cars? Accurate/needs some work/needs a lot of
work/totally useless?



Thanks in advance,



Steve Lucas.


HO Tichy tank car underframe...

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I was reading the latest RMC today, starting with Ted Cullota's article on modelling AC&F Type 11 tank cars.

Comments, please, on using the Tichy tank car underframe for modelling that on AC&F built Type 11 cars? Accurate/needs some work/needs a lot of work/totally useless?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Lucas.


Re: Coal car loading on "home" roads...

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Steve Vallee wrote:
"I am a fan of the Central Vermont, and have 3 great video tapes about the
CV put out by A&R Productions called "The Central Vermont Railway in Steam"
Volumes 1-3. All of these films were shot "in the 50's", and for the most
part were filmed in Mass., and Vt.

After all the talk about coal cars in New England, I dusted off those tapes
and while watching, took notes on the coal cars I spotted. Here is a list of
those hopper cars that I saw. All lengths are guesses on my part:

PRR---33' offset side------brown car, keystone in ball
herald..............................1 car"

I think you should check this one again. PRR 33 ft offset car - absolutely
no such animal.


Ben Hom


Re: Coal car loading on "home" roads...

Armand Premo
 

Marty,The Rutland frequently delivered loaded Berwind hoppers to the CV at Alburgh.These cars were returned to the Rutland empty about a week later.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: cvsne
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:29 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Coal car loading on "home" roads...





Chuck,

Thanks for posting this data from Moody's.

Naturally, I focused on the CV number. According to this, the CV hauled the most coal of the New England roads listed. I found this interesting since the CV has no direct connections to the coal fields. Cars coming into New England from the south can via the NH or the B&A. So, where did all the coal the CV receive come from?

I have photos of strings of hoppers spotted along the CV wharf in New London - perhaps barged in from the south? I know the Thames Towboat Company specialized in towing coal barges into southeastern Connecticut.

Of course, we've covered this coal into New England topic ad naseum over the years but your post means I need to do some homework and see what the other years look like for coal shipments on the CV.

Marty






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Re: Coal car loading on "home" roads...

Marty McGuirk
 

Chuck,

Thanks for posting this data from Moody's.

Naturally, I focused on the CV number. According to this, the CV hauled the most coal of the New England roads listed. I found this interesting since the CV has no direct connections to the coal fields. Cars coming into New England from the south can via the NH or the B&A. So, where did all the coal the CV receive come from?

I have photos of strings of hoppers spotted along the CV wharf in New London - perhaps barged in from the south? I know the Thames Towboat Company specialized in towing coal barges into southeastern Connecticut.

Of course, we've covered this coal into New England topic ad naseum over the years but your post means I need to do some homework and see what the other years look like for coal shipments on the CV.

Marty


Re: Critiquing Pre-production Models?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
This is the same basis that archives and libraries, such as the Pullman Library at IRM and the Newberry Library, use to limit publication or further copying of materials from their collection, even though they may not hold the copyright. Basically, they are saying, "We are the only source of this material, agree to and abide by these terms or you can't have it."
More dramatically, the example in copyright books is an item such as the Mona Lisa. The Louvre doesn't have the copyright (there is no copyright), but you WILL cooperate with and pay fees to the Louvre to use that image. Their reason is that they control access to the painting, therefore you can't photograph it yourself (without their permission and fee); and if you use someone else's photograph, there is a permission trail back to the museum. That's what Newberry and others essentially say also: abide by our terms, or no copies; and if you violate the agreement, no access in the future.
In other words, there are things which are protected by means other than copyright.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Coal car loading on "home" roads...

Tim O'Connor
 

I have extensive data for the Chicago & Alton that goes way
beyond what was reported to the ICC. The data was compiled in
a consultant's report in order to show that the B&O's control
of the C&A was not beneficial to the Alton, but was beneficial
to the B&O. They sought (successfully) to end that control.

If I get some time I'll pull out the coal related stats...

Tim O'Connor

To dig deeper, to find out exactly where shipments came from and where it
went would require access to the railroads internal records. I know of only
two instances where any of the really detailed information was made public -
the D&RGW data from the late 50's and the ACL, uh, IIRC, about the same
time. I have the first set but not the second.

Dave Nelson


ADMIN: Termination of Re: Critiquing Pre-production Models?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Charlie Vlk writes:

Bottom line is that the lawyers have set things up so they are assured lucrative employment without making any contribution to society.
Well...this thread...only remotely associated with frt cars has now drifted into a criticism of a particular vocation. Not good.

So, this thread is now terminated. If folks want to discuss copyright, patents etc., they are welcome to use:

Licen@...

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Milk car photo

Marty McGuirk
 

Jim,

Thanks for posting a logical, non-vindictive assessment of the model. It's rare in this day and age - and especially for this particular car.

I'd say the biggest issue with the model (which was something of a "pet project" - although I heard it sold very well) isn't the "radius" of the bend. I think the main issue is the center of the roof should be (barely) slightly taller than it is. In other words the slope of the roof appears a little too shallow on the IRC model. How noticeable this is depends on the angle you're viewing the model from.

Of course, if you think through it, that would directly affect the radius of the upper bend along the roofline.

I don't find either of these to be an overwhelming fault with the model.

Otherwise I think most of the remaining details are well executed.

Marty McGuirk

111941 - 111960 of 195374