Date   

Re: Atlas rebuilt USRA box cars

SUVCWORR@...
 

In 1953 the PRR still rostered 3462 X26C boxcars.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 9:46 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Atlas rebuilt USRA box cars










--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Hmmmmm.... Anyone want to try to match model w/ prototype?
No mention of the roof... but Atlas does say

"Inside height of model may vary from prototype"

6400-1 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-2 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Straight Underframe)
6400-3 Undecorated (7-8 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-4 Undecorated (7-8 End, Straight Underframe)

I'll leave it to the experts to match the model to the correct prototypes,
but what about paint schemes used? Other than the KCS
car, and maybe the A&D, are any of the paint schemes listed and
shown for the first run of any use to those of us modeling the late 1940's. One
has to wonder how many AT&SF and Pennsy cars were still
around to receive paint of the style offered. The RS&P car I can't comment on at
all but the two VTR cars represent a major portion of
this type of car on the VTR, one of which was still in North
Bennington until the recent past.

I'm really glad to see Atlas offering cars such as the 1932 ARA
and these rebuilt USRA prototypes but will be even happier to see
them in the style of paint they carried immediately after being
rebuilt.

All the best, Don Valentine





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Atlas rebuilt USRA box cars

pennsylvania1954
 

Let's exercise caution here. The "technical drawings" show 10 panel sides while the photos of the test shot taken at the NMRA convention show 8 panel sides.

At least the PRR scheme is bogus. All the Pennsy rebuilds were done with post-war AAR 10'6 IH bodies with 10 panels.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Atlas rebuilt USRA box cars

golden1014
 

The ACL 46000-class rebuild USRA box cars--which closely resemble the model photos--had 5-5-5 ends and fishbelly underframes.

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Hmmmmm.... Anyone want to try to match model w/ prototype?
No mention of the roof... but Atlas does say

"Inside height of model may vary from prototype"

6400-1 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-2 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Straight Underframe)
6400-3 Undecorated (7-8 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-4 Undecorated (7-8 End, Straight Underframe)

Tim O'Connor


Re: Naperville public service announcement

Dave Owens
 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 10:11 AM, np328<jcdworkingonthenp@onebox.com> wrote:
  I hope Mike Brock will allow one off-topic post (below) and then I'll step off the soapbox. I am posting the following NOT to generate comments on government, ILL DOT or any other matter. Just a heads up if you are driving to Naperville. My cousin with the Wisc. DOT passed this onto me.                       James Dick - St. Paul

PS- Is there an on-line scan of the registration form for 2009 Naperville? My mailout seemed to not have it. Perhaps it isn't out yet.
.........

Illinois will begin using photo radar in freeway work zones in July. One mile per hour over the speed limit and the machine will get you a nice $375.00 ticket in the mail. Beginning July 1st, the State of Illinois will begin using the speed cameras in areas designated as "Work Zones" on major freeways. Anyone caught by these devices will be mailed a $375.00 ticket for the FIRST offense.
The SECOND offense will cost $1000.00 and comes with a 90-Day suspension. Drivers will also receive demerit points against their license, which allow insurance companies to raise insurance rates.
This is the harshest penalty structure ever set for a governmental unit involving PHOTO speed enforcement. The State already has two camera vans on line issuing tickets 24/7 in work zones with speed limits lowered to 45 MPH. Photos of both the Driver's face and License plate are taken.
http://www.dot.state.il.us/safetyEng/FactSheet_032608.pdf


It's been the law since 2005.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/traffic/illinois.asp

Dave Owens
(Who hopes to make it to Napierville this year.)


--
2010 New England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet
June 4-5, 2010 (Always the weekend after Memorial Day)
Collinsville, Connecticut
www.neprototypemeet.com


Re: Naperville public service announcement

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "np328" <jcdworkingonthenp@...> wrote:

PS- Is there an on-line scan of the registration form for 2009 Naperville? My mailout seemed to not have it. Perhaps it isn't out yet.
.........
Jim,
The form is available on Jim Hayes' website at www.sunshinekits.com.

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA


Naperville public service announcement

np328
 

I hope Mike Brock will allow one off-topic post (below) and then I'll step off the soapbox. I am posting the following NOT to generate comments on government, ILL DOT or any other matter. Just a heads up if you are driving to Naperville. My cousin with the Wisc. DOT passed this onto me. James Dick - St. Paul

PS- Is there an on-line scan of the registration form for 2009 Naperville? My mailout seemed to not have it. Perhaps it isn't out yet.
.........

Illinois will begin using photo radar in freeway work zones in July. One mile per hour over the speed limit and the machine will get you a nice $375.00 ticket in the mail. Beginning July 1st, the State of Illinois will begin using the speed cameras in areas designated as "Work Zones" on major freeways. Anyone caught by these devices will be mailed a $375.00 ticket for the FIRST offense.
The SECOND offense will cost $1000.00 and comes with a 90-Day suspension. Drivers will also receive demerit points against their license, which allow insurance companies to raise insurance rates.
This is the harshest penalty structure ever set for a governmental unit involving PHOTO speed enforcement. The State already has two camera vans on line issuing tickets 24/7 in work zones with speed limits lowered to 45 MPH. Photos of both the Driver's face and License plate are taken.
http://www.dot.state.il.us/safetyEng/FactSheet_032608.pdf


Re: Atlas rebuilt USRA box cars

rwitt_2000
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Hmmmmm.... Anyone want to try to match model w/ prototype?
No mention of the roof... but Atlas does say

"Inside height of model may vary from prototype"

6400-1 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-2 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Straight Underframe)
6400-3 Undecorated (7-8 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-4 Undecorated (7-8 End, Straight Underframe)
They also say "10-panel body" so these apparently will not be "clones"
of their O-scale and N-scale versions, which have 8-panel bodies. The
"technical" illustrations indicates the cars have a short IH, which I
believe limits the number of potential prototypes.

Bob Witt


Re: YV in RMC

Jack Burgess
 

Remember, those guys were in the 70s when I talked to them. <g>

Actually, that was my error in the caption. Not sure how I screwed that
up...must have been a senior moment on my part...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Got the new issue of RMC today I liked Jack Burgess's article on rail
fanning the YV in 39. I was disappointed the PRR F30a flat was
called a NYC
flat in the caption. Especially since we have discussed Jack's specific
model on this list.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Atlas rebuilt USRA box cars

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Hmmmmm.... Anyone want to try to match model w/ prototype?
No mention of the roof... but Atlas does say

"Inside height of model may vary from prototype"

6400-1 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-2 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Straight Underframe)
6400-3 Undecorated (7-8 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-4 Undecorated (7-8 End, Straight Underframe)

I'll leave it to the experts to match the model to the correct prototypes, but what about paint schemes used? Other than the KCS
car, and maybe the A&D, are any of the paint schemes listed and
shown for the first run of any use to those of us modeling the late 1940's. One has to wonder how many AT&SF and Pennsy cars were still
around to receive paint of the style offered. The RS&P car I can't comment on at all but the two VTR cars represent a major portion of
this type of car on the VTR, one of which was still in North
Bennington until the recent past.

I'm really glad to see Atlas offering cars such as the 1932 ARA
and these rebuilt USRA prototypes but will be even happier to see
them in the style of paint they carried immediately after being
rebuilt.

All the best, Don Valentine


Box car doors, and other parts for steam era freight cars

Bob McCarthy
 

Gentlemen,
 
     At present, there is a manufacturer in the Atlanta area who is interested in producing steam era car parts.  If any of you would like to contact me off site with a list of needs, I will pass the information to him and get him in touch with your group.
 
    This is not a commercial offer by me as I have no financial interest in this matter.  He has been producing new parts for Scale S.
 
Thanks,

Bob McCarthy
 
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S

--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Larry Kline <lndkline@verizon.net> wrote:


From: Larry Kline <lndkline@verizon.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Box car doors
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 12:58 PM


 



I agree that an RPCyc article would be great. Another source for a few Youngstown and Superior boxcar doors (and ends, roofs and trucks) is Burlington Bulletin No. 7 which covers CB&Q steel boxcars and is still available:
http://www.burlingt onroute.com/ costore/biof. htm

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@.. .> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
The best place to find photos of doors for a particular era is in
the various issues of the Car Builders' Cyclopedias. We need a
comprehensive Pat Wider article in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia on
this subject. (hint, hint.)
Hear, hear! We do have a Frank Peacock article, way back in the
past in the UP Society magazine, but something more comprehensive
would be a great asset.

Tony Thompson


Atlas rebuilt USRA box cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Hmmmmm.... Anyone want to try to match model w/ prototype?
No mention of the roof... but Atlas does say

"Inside height of model may vary from prototype"

6400-1 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-2 Undecorated (5-5-5 End, Straight Underframe)
6400-3 Undecorated (7-8 End, Fishbelly Underframe)
6400-4 Undecorated (7-8 End, Straight Underframe)

Tim O'Connor


YV in RMC

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

Got the new issue of RMC today I liked Jack Burgess's article on rail
fanning the YV in 39. I was disappointed the PRR F30a flat was called a NYC
flat in the caption. Especially since we have discussed Jack's specific
model on this list.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Box car doors

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Or, place them all on a graph paper background. Then you could cut a rectangle of graph paper the same size and see how it fits.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor

If all the photos are to the same scale, I think
it would help modelers figure out which door to use when they
are looking at a prototype photo.


Re: Box car doors

Tim O'Connor
 

In addition to an RPC article on prototype doors, modelers
need a comprehensive bunch of photos of model doors along w/
identification of same. I had this idea years ago but just
have not had the spare time to devote to it -- simple really.
I would just make a 'portrait' shot of each door, in black
& white high res digital, and put them all into a gallery on
www.pbase.com If all the photos are to the same scale, I think
it would help modelers figure out which door to use when they
are looking at a prototype photo. I know in HO scale there must
be at LEAST 300 different doors and probably twice that many.

Tim O'Connor

The best place to find photos of doors for a particular era is in
the various issues of the Car Builders' Cyclopedias. We need a
comprehensive Pat Wider article in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia on
this subject. (hint, hint.)
Hear, hear! We do have a Frank Peacock article, way back in the
past in the UP Society magazine, but something more comprehensive
would be a great asset.

Tony Thompson


Re: Need B&O wagontop info from Florida museum

rwitt_2000
 






Bob Witt wrote:

Note the M-53 and the M-53A had different Duryea underframes and
actually may account for the different class designations. Â

Scott Seders@...asked:


Bob, what is the difference between the two underframes?
The differences are how the floor stringers are mounted. On the M-53
they are not continuous between the body bolsters, but butt against them
and are fastened with brackets riveted to the cross-bearers. Between the
middle two cross-bearers they are farther from the center line of the
car. The plan in the MM November 1982 issue correctly illustrates the
structure. On the M-53A the floor stringers are continuous between the
body bolsters and the cross-bearers, which are pressed steel, are shaped
(notched) so the stringers can pass over them, which is similar to the
AAR standard underframe construction. There are no doubt other
differences in the cushioning springs, cover plates, etc., but these are
internal in the center sills and are not visible. (A picture here is
worth a thousand words). The underframes for the M-53 were built by
Bethlehem Steel and delivered to the B&O, which then assembled the
wagon-top car bodies on them.

Over the years the design changed so rather than using channels or beams
for the center sills, as on the M-26d and M-26e, the later designs could
accommodate the AAR standard Zee center sills as applied to the M-55c
and M-55h.

The photos on the web site are of a M-53. If you get oriented and look
at the photos with the drawing you can see in some of them how the
stringers mount to the cross-bearers with brackets and do not pass over
this steel component. It seems the earlier design would not be as rigid,
but they lasted over 30 years and did not experience massive failures.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana


Re: box car door color

Bert Decker
 

Or even on somebody's rip track.

Bert

Frederick Freitas wrote:



Ed,

Many times in the life of a car they get upgraded with new
parts. It is quite possible that some old doors were removed at the
last shopping and replaced with shiny new ones.

Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 8/5/09, ed_mines <ed_mines@yahoo.com
<mailto:ed_mines%40yahoo.com>> wrote:

From: ed_mines <ed_mines@yahoo.com <mailto:ed_mines%40yahoo.com>>
Subject: [STMFC] box car door color
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:00 PM



Watching color films from the '50s & '60s sometimes I see box car
doors that are of a slightly different color than the car itself.

Was this true in the '40s too?

Anyone seen or heard from our been there, done that expert Larry Jackman?

Ed




Re: box car door color

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Ed,
 
        Many times in the life of a car they get upgraded with new parts. It is quite possible that some old doors were removed at the last shopping and replaced with shiny new ones.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 8/5/09, ed_mines <ed_mines@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: ed_mines <ed_mines@yahoo.com>
Subject: [STMFC] box car door color
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:00 PM


 



Watching color films from the '50s & '60s sometimes I see box car doors that are of a slightly different color than the car itself.

Was this true in the '40s too?

Anyone seen or heard from our been there, done that expert Larry Jackman?

Ed


Re: Need B&O wagontop info from Florida museum

Scott Seders
 

Bob Witt wrote:

Note the M-53 and the M-53A had different Duryea underframes and
actually may account for the different class designations.  




Bob, what is the difference between the two underframes?



Scott Seders


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Need B&O wagontop info from Florida museum

rwitt_2000
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim King" <jimking3@...> wrote:

A while back, someone sent me several underframe shots of 1 of 3 or 4
wagontop boxcars recently delivered to a Florida museum. I lost the
link to
the sender and can't find any pix of such cars on the various museum
web
sites I visited.



If you're the source or know of the person with these pix, please
contact me
off list. I'm finishing CAD work on the M53/M53A body and will be
moving to
the underframe next week . and these pix are VERY handy!



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

<http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>

Jim,

The original link I had didn't work, but the link below seems to point
to the original photos plus additional ones providing details of the
Tatum slack adjuster of the wagon-tops located at the Flordia Railroad
Museum
www.frrm.org <http://www.frrm.org/>

Note the M-53 and the M-53A had different Duryea underframes and
actually may account for the different class designations. Also please
don't confuse the underframes applied to the M-15 wagon-tops in
1955-1956 with the Duryeas used on the M-53. The class M-15 wagon-tops
received new "AAR underframes" to replace their original fishbelly ones.
The new underframes removed the inset between the sides and the old
underframes and made the cars look more like the M-53s.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/b_and_o_boxcars/


Good luck with this project.

Regards,

Bob Witt


box car door color

ed_mines
 

Watching color films from the '50s & '60s sometimes I see box car doors that are of a slightly different color than the car itself.

Was this true in the '40s too?

Anyone seen or heard from our been there, done that expert Larry Jackman?

Ed

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