Date   

Bycyrus Erie 250 Ton Crane

Charlie Vlk
 

I received a request for links to photographs of a CB&Q (or maybe GN if they had one) Bycyrus Erie 250 Ton Wrecking Crane.
Greg Scott of GHQ is working on an article for his website on upgrading a Bachmann unit and needs additional photos to complete the detailing.
Thanks,
Charlie Vlk


40 ft. gons - Erie, NC&StL

ed_mines
 

Has anyone compared the 2 aforementioned gons? Sunshine is offering the NC&StL car. It looks pretty close to the Erie car to me.

Ed


DL&W Wartime composite hoppers

ed_mines
 

The USRA & classic 9 rib Lackawanna hopper versions of these cars are pictured in the Cullotta/Klein NMRA freight car book.

There was a third version made from what I think were channel side hoppers built before WWI (Westerfield offered models of these cars). Has anyone seen a picture of one of these?

How about DL&W composite gons (I have the McCarter photo)? 40 ft. steel gons rebuilt from the aforementioned composite gons? Lackawanna stocks cars after WWII? (I have a nice photo of an earlier truss rod DL&W stock car).

Ed


Re: Erie 65000 series fifty-foot auto box car

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Eric Hansmann wrote:

I'm now working on extending the sidesill to the left of the doors to
reflect the prototype.
I'm unsure if the running board. Would it be an Apex metal grid? The
shadow can be seen in this
end view:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie65000adb.jpg

I am also unsure of the handbrake applied to these cars. A Universal
handbrake wheel is
supplied with the kit. Is that correct? If not, what is proper?
Eric,
The original Erie 65000-65099 series, built by AC&F 4-5/41 with end
doors, had Ajax hand brakes & Apex running boards & brake steps. In
case this might apply to you, sometime after Jan. 1952 the cars were
renumbered with 64 assigned to 66500-66581 (DF Loaders) and 34 assigned
to 62200-62233 (front axle loading). The renumbering occurred sometime
after 1/52 and was still in process in April 1955. Depending on your
modeling period, the renumbering may come into play, and if so ORER
data between these dates could be useful.

According to the AC&F bill of materials, when built the sides & ends
were painted DuPont Tuffcoat Brown. Underframes, trucks, brake parts,
and "B" end ladders were black. (I know, the latter seems strange.)
White stencils. The builder's photo of 65039 clearly shows the running
board, brake step, and roof wasn't painted.

Another series of Erie 50' auto cars, 66000-66099, built 12-41 having
Dreadnaught Ends were painted the same way except that the ends were
black. New Erie box cars built during the 1930s through 1950s normally
had their ends coated with black car cement. The 65000-series may have
been an exception because of the end doors, but that's just speculation
on my part.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Stan Kistler's Santa Fe Book-- Great Northern Iron Ore Cars Visit California

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi John,

I've read the same thing about the Vulcan Mine. That's why I said I wasn't sure it had anything to do with those GN cars.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Erie 65000 series fifty-foot auto box car

Eric Hansmann
 

Greetings,

I am working on a Proto2000 fifty-foot auto box car kit lettered for the ERIE as 65093. I note
a few images at the Fallen Flags site and had a question or two. It seems this model will be a
stand-in as the prototype doors were wider than the ones on the model, and the steel panels
were also wider than on the model. Here's a broad-side of the prototype:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie65000b.jpg

I'm now working on extending the sidesill to the left of the doors to reflect the prototype.
I'm unsure if the running board. Would it be an Apex metal grid? The shadow can be seen in this
end view:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie65000adb.jpg

I am also unsure of the handbrake applied to these cars. A Universal handbrake wheel is
supplied with the kit. Is that correct? If not, what is proper?

Eric



Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Starting over in a new house:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/


Re: DL&W Wartime composite USRA hoppers

aslt28 <karig@...>
 

"USS" stands for "United States Standard." It was used to describe USRA standard trucks. The USRA hopper cars were equipped with the USRA standard, Andrews-type, U-section side frame. Several Andrews trucks--Accurail and Tichy come to mind--would be good substitutes, however, the USRA truck did not have "Andrews" cast into the side frame. Instead, the letters "USS" were cast into the left end of the side frame just above and the journal box. These trucks/sideframes were cast by a number of different manufacturers. There are pictures and diagrams of the side frame in my chapter on trucks.

AB brakes would have been required for use in interchange service after 1953.

Bob Karig


The trucks were listed as a USS pattern which appears to be similar to the AAR double truss design. I have seen it described in other sources as a Gould sideframe. Maybe someone else on the list can clear up this description.


Gene Deimling


Re: DL&W Wartime composite USRA hoppers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 10, 2009, at 6:06 PM, al_brown03 wrote:

Richard, in your experience how reliable are diagram books in
regard to dimensions? For example, if a bolster-to-striker distance
is cited as 5'6", may one take that it isn't 5'0"?
Yes, the diagram books were generally quite accurate about
dimensions, since they called out the dimensions that were reported
to the ORERs.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: DL&W Wartime composite USRA hoppers

al_brown03
 

Richard, in your experience how reliable are diagram books in regard to dimensions? For example, if a bolster-to-striker distance is cited as 5'6", may one take that it isn't 5'0"?

-- TIA --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:13 AM, Gene Deimling wrote:

Lou
The Lackawanna diagram book dated 1953 shows that they were
converting to AB brakes and Ajax brake wheels at the date of
publication. The trucks were listed as a USS pattern which appears
to be similar to the AAR double truss design. I have seen it
described in other sources as a Gould sideframe. Maybe someone
else on the list can clear up this description.
Gene, RR diagram books were often more confusing than helpful
regarding trucks. The RRs typically ordered side frames, bolsters,
and other truck parts separately, and the diagram for a particular
car might show the side frames as "Gould #456" or perhaps just "Gould
cast steel." In such cases, you really have to look at photos to
determine what type of side frame it was.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Stan Kistler's Santa Fe Book-- Great Northern Iron Ore Cars Visit California

John Hile
 

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...> wrote:


Some iron ore for Kaiser came from the Vulcan Mine near Kelso, Calif., on the UP's South Central District, and was interchanged to the Santa Fe at Barstow. However, I'm not sure that was the movement depicted in Stan's photo showing GN ore cars.



Hello Any,

I have read that the production at the Vulcan mine for Kaiser was from 1942 to 1948. After that, Kaiser utilized the Eagle Mtn mine.

John Hile


Re: Stan Kistler's Santa Fe Book-- Great Northern Iron Ore Cars Visit California

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Tim,

Some iron ore for Kaiser came from the Vulcan Mine near Kelso, Calif., on the UP's South Central District, and was interchanged to the Santa Fe at Barstow. However, I'm not sure that was the movement depicted in Stan's photo showing GN ore cars.

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Stan Kistler's Santa Fe Book-- Great Northern Iron Ore Cars Visit California

Tim O'Connor
 

Where was iron ore found on the Santa Fe, for shipment to California?

Tim O

At 8/10/2009 04:46 PM Monday, you wrote:
The mining in the Missabe mines is somewhat seasonal because of the weather, the lakes freeze up. Maybe because of the war they are hauling ore to Kaiser mill or they could be lease cars so they are not setting unemployed all winter. The Missabe railroad leased some of it's big steam power during the winters. There are also pictures in Chard Walkers Cajon Pass book of GN Ore cars in Santa Fe trains.

George A Walls


Interesting. I think the early 1950's was when many of the Missabe
mines were starting to play out, since taconite had not yet come into
production. So there may have been an excess of ore cars up there.
And SP didn't get their 100 ton ore gondolas until 1958, IIRC. I'd
love to see a shot of GN ore cars on Beaumont Hill behind a 4-10-2!

Tim O'Connor


At 8/10/2009 02:00 PM Monday, you wrote:
I received my copy of the wonderfully well done Stan Kistler's Santa Fe in Black and White and there on pages 100-101 is a picture of 3 Fairbanks-Morse 1600 HP road switchers in San Bernardino, CA leaving for the Kaiser Steel mill with about 27 Great Northern iron ore cars on Dec 16, 1951. I assume the Korean War needs had something to do with this assignment!


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...


for sale

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I have an assembled Central Hobby Supply?, F&C anyway, B&O wagon top covered hopper I really have no use for. If you're interested contact me off list please.
cepropst@...


Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Stan Kistler's Santa Fe Book-- Great Northern Iron Ore Cars Visit California

ATSF1226
 

The mining in the Missabe mines is somewhat seasonal because of the weather, the lakes freeze up. Maybe because of the war they are hauling ore to Kaiser mill or they could be lease cars so they are not setting unemployed all winter. The Missabe railroad leased some of it's big steam power during the winters. There are also pictures in Chard Walkers Cajon Pass book of GN Ore cars in Santa Fe trains.

George A Walls

Interesting. I think the early 1950's was when many of the Missabe
mines were starting to play out, since taconite had not yet come into
production. So there may have been an excess of ore cars up there.
And SP didn't get their 100 ton ore gondolas until 1958, IIRC. I'd
love to see a shot of GN ore cars on Beaumont Hill behind a 4-10-2!

Tim O'Connor


At 8/10/2009 02:00 PM Monday, you wrote:
I received my copy of the wonderfully well done Stan Kistler's Santa Fe in Black and White and there on pages 100-101 is a picture of 3 Fairbanks-Morse 1600 HP road switchers in San Bernardino, CA leaving for the Kaiser Steel mill with about 27 Great Northern iron ore cars on Dec 16, 1951. I assume the Korean War needs had something to do with this assignment!


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...


Re: Stan Kistler's Santa Fe Book-- Great Northern Iron Ore Cars Visit California

Tim O'Connor
 

Interesting. I think the early 1950's was when many of the Missabe
mines were starting to play out, since taconite had not yet come into
production. So there may have been an excess of ore cars up there.
And SP didn't get their 100 ton ore gondolas until 1958, IIRC. I'd
love to see a shot of GN ore cars on Beaumont Hill behind a 4-10-2!

Tim O'Connor

At 8/10/2009 02:00 PM Monday, you wrote:
I received my copy of the wonderfully well done Stan Kistler's Santa Fe in Black and White and there on pages 100-101 is a picture of 3 Fairbanks-Morse 1600 HP road switchers in San Bernardino, CA leaving for the Kaiser Steel mill with about 27 Great Northern iron ore cars on Dec 16, 1951. I assume the Korean War needs had something to do with this assignment!


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...


Re: DL&W Wartime composite USRA hoppers

MDelvec952
 

Richard is correct here about the general arrangment drawings and reality. Too, the GA-drawings were generally only good for as-built cars about the time that drawing was published.

In the case of these rebuilds, photos show that many types of cars got the wooden sides and additional braces, and at the same time trucks were replaced or swapped as needed, sometimes only on one end.? Some photos of these show them with one t-section sideframe and the other an Andrews, Gould or ASF.

Other details and improvements were?also made;?power brakes were most often Ajax, but sometimes the as-built equipment stayed in place.

It's always best to work from a photo. In photos from the 1950s, these composite hoppers most often?show up in steam coal service, around the?engine terminal at Hoboken since photography there was easier than at other terminals. ?After WWII, some cars were rebuilt with steel, with additional horizontal and vertical stiffening -- no diagonals -- making for some very odd-looking two-pocket coal hoppers.

???????????????????? ....Mike Del Vecchio

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2009 2:35 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DL&W Wartime composite USRA hoppers






On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:13 AM, Gene Deimling wrote:

Lou
The Lackawanna diagram book dated 1953 shows that they were
converting to AB brakes and Ajax brake wheels at the date of
publication. The trucks were listed as a USS pattern which appears
to be similar to the AAR double truss design. I have seen it
described in other sources as a Gould sideframe. Maybe someone
else on the list can clear up this description.
Gene, RR diagram books were often more confusing than helpful
regarding trucks. The RRs typically ordered side frames, bolsters,
and other truck parts separately, and the diagram for a particular
car might show the side frames as "Gould #456" or perhaps just "Gould
cast steel." In such cases, you really have to look at photos to
determine what type of side frame it was.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: DL&W Wartime composite USRA hoppers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:13 AM, Gene Deimling wrote:

Lou
The Lackawanna diagram book dated 1953 shows that they were
converting to AB brakes and Ajax brake wheels at the date of
publication. The trucks were listed as a USS pattern which appears
to be similar to the AAR double truss design. I have seen it
described in other sources as a Gould sideframe. Maybe someone
else on the list can clear up this description.
Gene, RR diagram books were often more confusing than helpful
regarding trucks. The RRs typically ordered side frames, bolsters,
and other truck parts separately, and the diagram for a particular
car might show the side frames as "Gould #456" or perhaps just "Gould
cast steel." In such cases, you really have to look at photos to
determine what type of side frame it was.

Richard Hendrickson


Stan Kistler's Santa Fe Book-- Great Northern Iron Ore Cars Visit California

gary laakso
 

I received my copy of the wonderfully well done Stan Kistler's Santa Fe in Black and White and there on pages 100-101 is a picture of 3 Fairbanks-Morse 1600 HP road switchers in San Bernardino, CA leaving for the Kaiser Steel mill with about 27 Great Northern iron ore cars on Dec 16, 1951. I assume the Korean War needs had something to do with this assignment!


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...


Re: Atlas rebuilt USRA box cars

Charlie Vlk
 

Tony-

I wouldn't have "outed" him if he wasn't previously public with his procivities.
I might add that, while most of us "in the Industry" have our pet roads we do have to have our business hats on when making project recommendations
.... no sense in promoting a favorite prototype if it isn't going to sell enough units to help the company meet payroll.

Charlie Vlk


Charlie Vlk wrote:
> The main culprit would be Nolan Null.

Nolan freely admitted his Burlington enthusiasm.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

.


Re: DL&W Wartime composite USRA hoppers

Gene Deimling <losgatos48@...>
 

Lou
The Lackawanna diagram book dated 1953 shows that they were converting to AB brakes and Ajax brake wheels at the date of publication. The trucks were listed as a USS pattern which appears to be similar to the AAR double truss design. I have seen it described in other sources as a Gould sideframe. Maybe someone else on the list can clear up this description.

Gene Deimling

--- In STMFC@..., "Louis C. Whiteley" <octoraro1@...> wrote:

On page 279 of Karig's "Coal Cars" is a photo of DL&W #81688. This USRA hopper was repaired with four panels of wood and steel diagonals in 1944. The 1953 ORER lists one other car with the same reduced 1840 cubic capacity, #81572. I haven't checked my 1948 ORER for other cars.

Can anyone provide additional information about these cars, i.e. AB brake system, power handbrake mechanism, trucks, etc.?

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ

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