Date   

One Month to WPM (Western Prototype Modelers Meet)

dh30973
 

WPM 2009 - Western Prototype Modelers Meet
New Date and Location
San Bernardino Station
Saturday September 19, 2009

The west coast's largest gathering for railroad prototype modelers, now in it's 20th year!

9:00 AM to 6:00 PM
San Bernardino Santa Fe Depot
1170 West Third Street. - San Bernardino, CA 92403

Visit WPM and see hundreds of locomotive, freight and passenger car, caboose, MOW, structure, and vehicle prototype models on display while countless 1:1 scale BNSF and UP trains roll-by just feet from the depot.
Clinics and seminars will be offered throughout the day and operating HO & N Scale "Free-mo" modular layout exhibits are planned. Visit the San Bernardino Historical and Railroad Museum located in the west-end of the depot.
Tons of raffle prizes donated by generous hobby retailers, publishers & model manufacturers will be up for grabs.
Bring your modeling projects, finished, or "in the works". Share ideas and techniques with fellow modelers and meet new friends!

Doors Open at 9:00AM

Scheduled Presentations start at 10:00
10:00 Dick Harley - PFE Mechanical Reefer Painting and Lettering 1953-1980
11:15 Craig Walker & Paul Ellis - From Athearn: What is needed to develop a project
12:15 Mini-Raffle and Lunch Break
1:30 Mike Rose - Creating the Port of Erin and Associated Industries
2:45 Tim Frederick - An overview of modern tank car models released from 2004-2009
4:00 Steve Beales & Bob Freitas - Structure Modeling from the Prototype
5:00 Raffle Round 2

San Bernardino depot is served by both Amtrak and Metrolink. Links to schedules are posted on our web site.
Exhibitors: Manufacturers, photographers and publishers will participate in WPM (Exhibitors: pre-registration is required, contact WPM at the phone number below.)
For updated info on presentations, program, schedule and photos of past meets:
www.WesternPrototypeModelers.org or call Joe D'Elia at 760-721-3393

WPM welcomes modelers of all roads, all scales and eras!

WPM Meet admission PRICE REDUCED: $15.00, or $12.00 if you bring a model(s) to display

Plenty of free parking

Dave Hussey
WPM Committee


Re: Caboose Lighting

Jim Betz
 

Jack,
This project is to do about 50 (!) cabeese, most of them brass
and none of them using Kadee trucks. So changing out the trucks
and or wheels is not really an option because they are
'prototypically correct'.
I like your solution of the brass washer on the bolster of a
styrene caboose - simple and effective (with the flicker free
circuit).
- Jim


Re: Universal 5700 brakewheel

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Yeah, Richard, why didn't I say that? I have got to learn to read all the messages before I respond to any of them. Normally a member smarter than me has already got "thar fustest with the mostest."

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Aug 17, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Does anyone have an illustration of this particular brakewheel?
I have a bunch of scans of Universal brakewheels, and Gene Green's
excellent clinic from the San Jose NMRA convention, but none of
them is identified as a 5700. Gene has a brake housing identified
as a 5705...
Clearly shown in Pat Wider's article on brake wheels in RPCyc #10.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: MAINE TOFC QUESTION

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Maine's laws in 1932 placed no limitation on trailer length but restricted the width to 8 ft. and the height to 12 ft. 6 in.

By 1939 the Maine maximum width, height and length were 8', 12'-6" and 40'-0" respectively.

By 1979 the Maine maximum width, height and length were 102", 13'-6" and 56'-6" respectively.

Compared with other states Maine seems to have been on the liberal side as regards semi-trailer length. In 1939 6 states including Maine had a max length of 40'-0". Two states allowed 45'-0" and only Vermont allowed 50'-0". Rhode Island, Maryland and Nevada had no restriction on semi-trailer length. Twenty-one states allowed 35'-0"; 12 33'-0"; 2 30'-0"; 1 27'-0" and 1 26'-6".

In 1979 only five states allowed widths greater than 96" and only Wyoming and Vermont allowed trailers longer than Maine's 56'-6".

I originally set out to gather this sort of information for every state for every year but the "therefores" and "whereases" began to overwhelm my database design so I gave up.

Gene Green


Re: New Lackawanna box car models available, 46000- and 48000-series

MDelvec952
 

Nope. The 46000-46699-series were in four groups of 40-foot double-sheathed cars built by Magor and ACF in 1927, one batch with radial roofs. Sunshine offered this car quite a few years ago, kit 37.9. These lasted in numbers well into the '50s, many getting the Phoebe Snow billboard. They show up in photos in just about any book published with DL&W pictures. RPI offered the 45000-series, similar but older with flat Murphy roofs and ends. These, too, lasted almost as long as the 46000-series, and many got Phoebe billboards, a scheme that began in April 1942.

The 48000-series were steel rebuilds of wood-sided autocars, mostly. One of these, the last in the series, 48899, was rebuilt from a USRA double-sheathed boxcar and had it an X-31-like look to it. The car retained its 5-5-5 Murphy ends and 9'4" inside height, and it was built with "side and roof sheets in one piece," according to the general arrangement drawings for it, and "Diamondette steel plate running board" and matching "step board." Very interesting car. One photo did surface showing it, in the distance in a passing train, so I included it in the Erie / DL&W Color Guide, page 100. I will model it one day. DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops did the rebuilding.

DL&W didn't own a single-sheathed boxcar, even during the 19th Century (unless you count indestructible ends as a technicality).

....Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 08/19/09 22:49:03 Eastern Daylight Time, bierglaeser@yahoo.com writes:
All this discussion of DL&W box cars has made me curious about the DL&W's 46000 and 48000 series box cars which seem to have been single-sheathed box cars. Can anyone refer me to a source of information on these cars?

Gene Green


Re: New Lackawanna box car models available

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

All this discussion of DL&W box cars has made me curious about the DL&W's 46000 and 48000 series box cars which seem to have been single-sheathed box cars. Can anyone refer me to a source of information on these cars?

Gene Green


Re: IHB 1937 box car details

MDelvec952
 

In a message dated 08/19/09 10:57:43 Eastern Daylight Time, destorzek@mchsi.com writes:
While "swage" seems be applicable, it is really the term for the process that forms the offset, not the finished result. Some place I just ran into the term "swaged joggle", which defines both the process and the result. The same would be true for "swaged offset". But, do we care by what process the offset is formed? We still have to define what is offset or joggled. It seems to me that describing car sides as "offset lap seems" or "plain lap seems" gets the job done and leaves no question what is being discussed.
I had trouble accepting the name "crimped seams," which is why I put it in quotes in my original note. "Offset seams" seems to do the job, versus rivited seams.

....Mike Del Vecchio


Re: IHB 1937 box car details

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Well, it was a long shot anyway. Once you threw the gauntlet down the likelihood of changing your mind rapidly approached zero.

To paraphrase Galileo: "Nevertheless, it is an offset joint!"

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IHB 1937 box car details



Kurt, those are boiler seams and they show the plate edges "offset"
or overlapping -- i.e. lap seams. I think the illustration you are
referring to shows THREE plates, of which the one with a bend in it
is a reinforcement plate.

Nice try, but no ceegar.

Tim

If someone can find a published prototype name for this type of seam,
I'll use it.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>

http://books.google.com/books?id=PJQjAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA2-PA363&lpg=RA2-PA363&dq=offset+rivet+seam&source=bl&ots=eNnztrn1fW&sig=MINQn-Jh67GEU0IACOL77nMcVuw&hl=en&ei=FpSMSr_4NMPJlAfzpd26CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#v=onepage&q=offset%20rivet%20seam&f=false

Railway and Locomotive Engineering, pg 363: "Fig 12 is a double rivetted seam of . . . with an offset strip of 3/8 strip on the inside . . ."

The figure shows a strip with an offset formed into it. The joint is an offset joint.

KL


Re: IHB 1937 box car details

Tim O'Connor
 

Kurt, those are boiler seams and they show the plate edges "offset"
or overlapping -- i.e. lap seams. I think the illustration you are
referring to shows THREE plates, of which the one with a bend in it
is a reinforcement plate.

Nice try, but no ceegar.

Tim

If someone can find a published prototype name for this type of seam,
I'll use it.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>

http://books.google.com/books?id=PJQjAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA2-PA363&lpg=RA2-PA363&dq=offset+rivet+seam&source=bl&ots=eNnztrn1fW&sig=MINQn-Jh67GEU0IACOL77nMcVuw&hl=en&ei=FpSMSr_4NMPJlAfzpd26CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#v=onepage&q=offset%20rivet%20seam&f=false

Railway and Locomotive Engineering, pg 363: "Fig 12 is a double rivetted seam of . . . with an offset strip of 3/8 strip on the inside . . ."

The figure shows a strip with an offset formed into it. The joint is an offset joint.

KL


Re: IHB 1937 box car details

kurt_laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

If someone can find a published prototype name for this type of seam,
I'll use it.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>


http://books.google.com/books?id=PJQjAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA2-PA363&lpg=RA2-PA363&dq=offset+rivet+seam&source=bl&ots=eNnztrn1fW&sig=MINQn-Jh67GEU0IACOL77nMcVuw&hl=en&ei=FpSMSr_4NMPJlAfzpd26CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#v=onepage&q=offset%20rivet%20seam&f=false

Railway and Locomotive Engineering, pg 363: "Fig 12 is a double rivetted seam of . . . with an offset strip of 3/8 strip on the inside . . ."

The figure shows a strip with an offset formed into it. The joint is an offset joint.

KL


Re: Telephone pole flatcar loads

CJ Riley
 

The Train Shed Cyc No 36 has a number of loading diagrams (1919) incliding telephone poles.

CJ Riley

--- On Tue, 8/18/09, tgregmrtn@aol.com <tgregmrtn@aol.com> wrote:

From: tgregmrtn@aol.com <tgregmrtn@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Telephone pole flatcar loads
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 11:39 PM






 





Lee,



There were rules for loading open top cars with poles, and they were

published by the ARR, someone must have a set of diagrams. IIRC the standard

size of a Utility Pole was 39-feet, and telegraph poles were 52-feet, at

least that is what I seem to remember. Butts to the end of the car and tips to

the center two rows high and then tips out and butts to the center for the

next row then switch back, but again you"ll need a diagram to work from. I

would be surprised if the diagrams don't show some banding in layers...



For good looking general purpose poles, I would suggest that you use what

Richard Hendrickson suggested to me, Bamboo Chop Sticks, what a great

suggestion for poles, not more tapering dowel rod. Poles were loaded by weight

not volume so it would depend on the capacity of your car and the weight of

each pole.



All poles are tapered and for utility poles 1 inch in 10-feet is the

standard and they were treat with either creosote for most power poles and

pilings were traditionally treated with "Dow-Penta" in dark oil or light oil for

exposed pilings.



Greg Martin





Lee you wrote:



"I'm preparing a special movement of telephone pole loads over a friend's

layout set in 1955. Does anyone have advice on how they would have been

loaded? I'm planning on using 1/8" wooden dowels cut about 6" long and loaded

in groups of about 9 or 10 wide with stakes in the pockets. How many layers

would be appropriate for a load like this? I know that real poles were

slightly tapered, but I doubt if I'll try to replicate that. Were longer poles

of 80'-100' transported by rail often? I assume they would have been

hauled in 65' drop end gons with idler flats.



Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat"



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Re: IHB 1937 box car details

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Best for STMFC list purposes: "swaged rivet seam" and "lapped rivet seam".
Seams can be welded, after all...
Good point. But usually they're butt welded, not overlapped (or swaged).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: IHB 1937 box car details

Tim O'Connor
 

Best for STMFC list purposes: "swaged rivet seam" and "lapped rivet seam".

Seams can be welded, after all...

Tim O'Connor

It seems to me that describing car sides as "offset lap seems" or "plain
lap seems" gets the job done and leaves no question what is being
discussed<
I think I would prefer "seam", GRIN!

Jon Miller


Re: IHB 1937 box car details

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
That's what I like about you Tony. When logic fails, resort to sarcasm.
Yep. Butyou missed the logic: I'm trying to avoid something truly unpleasant about the RPI site. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: IHB 1937 box car details

Tim O'Connor
 

That's what I like about you Tony. When logic fails, resort to sarcasm.

Whether you like the terminology or not, you'll find what you seek. But
if you prefer, search for "swage", and good luck to you.

Dennis makes a perfectly logical argument, but his examples of "running
board" and "joint bar" are cases where the prototype term was not being
used, and instead modelers were using their own terms. As a result, there
was a disconnect between modeling and prototype sources of information.
Most of us now use the prototype terms for those items precisely because
those terms are found in many references.

If someone can find a published prototype name for this type of seam,
I'll use it. In the meantime, crimped works for me. I know that some
folks hate to say "PS-0" and "Dartnot" as well (more Nehrich-isms), but
since those words convey an exact meaning. I use them too. Sure we could
say "1930's PS welded box car" and "Carbuilder End" (That one really
resonates with meaning, eh?) but almost no one would understand exactly
what was meant (except for the members of this mailing list).

Tim O'Connor

I'm stickin' with crimped. The problem with changing terminology is
that you may not be able to find what you're looking for if you go
off looking for "swaged laps" (God knows what Google will find for
you) but if you search for "box car crimped seam" guess what? You'll
get appropriate references on the RPI web site.
Ah, the GREAT source of official railroad lingo, not to
mention authoritative freight car history.

Tony Thompson


Re: Telephone pole flatcar loads

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lee A. Gautreaux wrote:
I'm preparing a special movement of telephone pole loads over a friend's layout set in 1955. Does anyone have advice on how they would have been loaded? . . . I assume they would have been hauled in 65' drop end gons with idler flats.
Lee, see page 220 in my volume on gondolas.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Telephone pole flatcar loads

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 18, 2009, at 8:48 PM, Lee A. Gautreaux wrote:

I'm preparing a special movement of telephone pole loads over a friend's layout set in 1955. Does anyone have advice on how they would have been loaded? I'm planning on using 1/8" wooden dowels cut about 6" long and loaded in groups of about 9 or 10 wide with stakes in the pockets. How many layers would be appropriate for a load like this? I know that real poles were slightly tapered, but I doubt if I'll try to replicate that. Were longer poles of 80'-100' transported by rail often? I assume they would have been hauled in 65' drop end gons with idler flats.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/



------------------------------------

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Re: Caboose Lighting

Jack Burgess
 

Jim...

I faced the same problem on one of my brass cabooses. The bolster on this
caboose is composed of a turned brass center post with a pair of
fabricated/decorative brass bolster side pieces. The turned bolster center
post was screwed to the bottom of the floor from inside. My solution was to
first remove and discard the fabricated bolster side pieces (you don't want
them touching the center post and you can't see them anyway). I then
redrilled the screw hole for the center post so that it was larger that the
diameter of the bolster center post by about a 1/16". A piece of .040"
styrene about 3/4" square was mounted inside the caboose body over this
enlarged hole and the bolster center post attached to the styrene with a
screw from the top/inside. The result is that the bolster center post is no
longer touching the brass floor and is isolated. A small brass solder tab
was positioned under the screw holding the bolster center post to the
styrene...the wire to the lighting circuit attaches to this tab thus making
a connection to the truck and one rail. Because the bolster center post is
now screwed to the styrene rather than the floor, that end of the caboose
will ride lower by the thickness of the floor but that difference is so
small I ignored it. If it is a problem, you could insert a styrene washer
equal to the thickness of the floor between the top of the bolster center
post and the styrene.

The only critical step is to align the bolster center post in the enlarged
hole so that it doesn't touch the brass floor. I did this by screwing the
bolster center post to the styrene (with the solder tab in place) and then
placing the piece of styrene on the floor with the center post in the
enlarged hole. I clamped the styrene in position and then turned the floor
over to check that the center post was correctly aligned with the hole. Once
everything was correct, I bonded the styrene to the floor with CA. I think I
reinforced this bond with a pair of screws up into the styrene from below
the floor along the centerline of the car.

There are probably easier ways to solve this problem but this was the best I
could come up with...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: IHB 1937 box car details

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Miller" <atsf@...> wrote:


I think I would prefer "seam", GRIN!
Damned spell chequer!

Dennis


Re: IHB 1937 box car details

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

It seems to me that describing car sides as "offset lap seems" or "plain lap seems" gets the job done and leaves no question what is being discussed<
I think I would prefer "seam", GRIN!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

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