Date   

Re: [PortlandRPM] Clinic Schedule for Rails by the River.

Greg Martin
 

Guys,

I can honestly say I now have a deep appreciation for the word HOST.

I am hoping all of you had a great time and it was truly you folks that
made Rails by the River 2009 a great success. There were 83 of you here and
for a grass roots event I would say that was a success.

I was pleased to see so many models on display and I was pleased to see so
many passenger car models on display and I not sure that I have seen so
many at one meet, you guys impressed me. It was great to see so many Pennsy
models as well.

Special thanks goes out to Andy Bell for the help setting up and Mark
Kerlick and Jim Evans for a most unique Chinese Raffle. And all our sponsors who
contributed to it's success; ACCURAIL, ATHEARN TRAINS, ATLAS MODEL
RAILROADS, EXACT RAIL, INTERMOUNTAIN RAILWAYS, MICROTRAINS, TANGENT MODLES, TRAIN
VIDEOS, DVDs and PARTS and 5th AVENUE CAR SHOPS.

We had a pleasant surprise with the unannounced arrival of Chris and Dave
Clune from EXACT RAIL, I was certainly pleased to see them both.

Thanks to Joe Fugate, Charlie Comstock and Mindy Basse from Model Railroad
Hobbyist for being with us.

Many thanks to our presenters Richard Hendrickson, Mark Kerlick, David
Banes, Naomi Petersen, Jim Murrie and Stan Rydarowizc and those that attended
their clinics and were patient with all the technical issues.

Yes there will be a Rails by the River 2010. We look forward to seeing you
all here in Salem then.

Thank You All!

Greg Martin




Jim Hayes writes:

Great show. Greg, I appreciate all your work in making it a success.


Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Rich Orr wrote:
"The current new model -- rebuilt USRA has some but not all dates."

...which is completely irrelevant since the model(s) are bogus hermaphrodites.


Ben Hom


Re: Cutting styrene sheet into narrow strips...

proto48er
 

Guys -

Just a wild guess, but I would think that Evergreen would have cut thin styrene sheet with a guillotine shear. The very small edge serations, if vertically oriented from top to bottom on the strips, would confirm this. Another wild guess would be that their scribed styrene sheet is made in an horizontal milling machine-like device.

I have used a 12" Di-Acro shear to cut 0.005" thick shimstock half-hard brass into 0.070" wide boiler bands ("O" scale). The width of the cut strip is set with a backgauge (in my case, a "frontgauge" for the real thin sheet), and the sheet adjacent to the cutting blade must be held down on the table while cutting to achieve an even width down its entire length. The shear will cut thin stuff all day long - have sheared styrene and phosphor bronze up to 0.030" thick, too. The width varied about 0.001" plus or minus down the length of the strips. I set the "frontgauge" with a pair of Scherr-Tumico depth micrometers so that the cut strips are not tapered.

I just sold three small 8-1/2" press brakes on Ebay. They will make a somewhat sharp bend in thin sheet brass. However, simply bending brass to a right angle will not make a dead sharp bend. The thickness of the sheet will cause a radius on the corner of the bend equal to about 62% of the sheet thickness. In other words, if you bend 0.005" thick brass sheet, you will still have a radius in the corner of the bend of about 0.003". The same rules apply to styrene.

To make a dead sharp bend in brass, you have to use sufficient "tonnage" to cause the brass to actually flow at the corner ("coining.") That is difficult. However, it may be possible to cause the styrene to flow at a much lower pressure. Frankly, I have never tried that!

Here is the Di-Acro website:

<http://diacro.com/>

Their machines sometimes sell for reasonable prices on Ebay.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: soolinehistory

I actually had some samples of Evergreen sheet cut on a waterjet, and all I
can say is, it ain't pretty. Waterjets are used to cut hard materials.
Styrene isn't that hard, and just kind of shreds.
----- Original Message -----

Harder materials can be cut (*), but they are not the exclusive application
for WJC. Diapers, fabric blanks for clothing, foam, and carpet (Did you
ever see an intricate logo or emblem in the lobby of a hotel or business?)
are among the many "soft" things it is used for.

(IIRC, really hard things like ceramics can't be cut because of surface
fracturing or something.)

KL


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:

Where does the notion that manufacturers should provide research on their products end? Should it be required to provide a useage history of each car so that a person doesn't purchase a car that did not ever show up on the rails of the road that they model?
Back in the early days of Branchline's passenger car project, when I was beginning to realize just how detailed Pullman's records were, I suggested, tongue in cheek, that Branchline offer limited edition "RPA Line" kits, maybe 100 of each car name. I would provide information in each kit showing the shopping dates over the entire life of the car, so that those modelers who obsess over such things could move those cars off the layout if they would have been in the shops at the time of an operating session.

Just a random idea that sounded good after a few beers. But I bet they would have sold like hotcakes.....

Tom Madden


Re: Cutting styrene sheet into narrow strips...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
(IIRC, really hard things like ceramics can't be cut because of surface fracturing or something.)
That can happen, but the biggest reason is when the ceramic is harder than the cutting tool. That just won't work <g>. The real issue is whether the material to be cut is brittle or not. Very hard materials which are tough, like high-alloy steels, are perfectly cuttable without fracture problems--provided of course that the cutter is harder than the cuttee. As it were.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Cutting styrene sheet into narrow strips...

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Have you considered bending this from .005 brass sheet, using a photoetch bending tool like this:

http://ausfwerks.com//techniques/FB/main.html

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/101-200/tnt143_PE-bending-tool_Tan/tnt143.htm

KL


Re: Cutting styrene sheet into narrow strips...

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: soolinehistory

I actually had some samples of Evergreen sheet cut on a waterjet, and all I can say is, it ain't pretty. Waterjets are used to cut hard materials. Styrene isn't that hard, and just kind of shreds.
----- Original Message -----

Harder materials can be cut (*), but they are not the exclusive application for WJC. Diapers, fabric blanks for clothing, foam, and carpet (Did you ever see an intricate logo or emblem in the lobby of a hotel or business?) are among the many "soft" things it is used for.

(IIRC, really hard things like ceramics can't be cut because of surface fracturing or something.)

KL


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

SUVCWORR@...
 

Dan,

It is hit or miss.? Take a look at the latest offerings.? Cars where the orders were due July 24th have no info.? The current new model -- rebuilt USRA has some but not all dates.? Specifically build dates or re-build dates are missing for re-paints of the re-builds.? While it is true they have been more forthcoming with tank car info it is still missing for the most recent tank offerings.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: riverman_vt <riverman_vt@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 12:18 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Prototype info from model mfgs










--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:


In part:



Also, to give credit where due, Atlas does list the paint dates of some but
not all of their freight cars on their website but not on the box labels.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but it strikes me that Atlas has been doing
this on their website for some years now but simply have not gone back and
provided the info for those cars offered prior to their doing so. This first
became apparent to me with their 11,000 gal. LPG cars. The first run was made
prior to their providing such information on their website but it is available
for every run produced since. Is this not correct?


Take care, Don Valentine



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Cutting styrene sheet into narrow strips...

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., VINCE PUGLIESE <gigitreosei@...> wrote:

Folks...

I stand corrected. I spoke with Evergreen and they do not use water jet technology. However the approach they do use is proprietary.

.vp
I actually had some samples of Evergreen sheet cut on a waterjet, and all I can say is, it ain't pretty. Waterjets are used to cut hard materials. Styrene isn't that hard, and just kind of shreds.

Anyone who is familiar with horizontal milling machines, and the concept of mounting multiple slitting saws and spacers on the arbor should have a pretty good picture of how Evergreen makes both patterend sheets and strips.

Dennis


Re: Cutting styrene sheet into narrow strips...

VINCE PUGLIESE
 

Folks...

I stand corrected. I spoke with Evergreen and they do not use water jet technology. However the approach they do use is proprietary.

.vp

--- On Sun, 8/23/09, spsalso <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

From: spsalso <Edwardsutorik@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Cutting styrene sheet into narrow strips...
To: STMFC@...
Received: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 8:44 PM






 





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, VINCE PUGLIESE <gigitreosei@ ...> wrote:

For the record, I am fairly certain Evergreen uses waterjet technology to
produce their strip material.


I just checked the edges of some Evergreen strips from .010 to .250 and found tooth marks on all of them.



Ed




























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Salt

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

From painful personal experience (aching back, unholy brews of stinging salt and sweat running first into the eyes, then coursing down one's arms and legs; an atmosphere of stifling humidity promoted by salt's hydroscopic nature), I can attest to this is how much salt was routinely shipped: standard boxcars, usually SS or DS wood -but also wood reefers- that were at the ends of their lives. Wood cars lasted a relatively longer time in salt service. For steel cars, it was a short death march.

I cannot attest to whether or not "grain doors" (or similar) were ever used, but the salt cars that I had to deal with were simply filled with loose salt to either side of the doors. I also cannot attest as to how the cars were filled (in the '50s), but they were unloaded with coal scoops wielded by unhappy laborers from the very most bottom dregs of the pecking order.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:


In part:



Also, to give credit where due, Atlas does list the paint dates of some but not all of their freight cars on their website but not on the box labels.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but it strikes me that Atlas has been doing this on their website for some years now but simply have not gone back and provided the info for those cars offered prior to their doing so. This first became apparent to me with their 11,000 gal. LPG cars. The first run was made prior to their providing such information on their website but it is available for every run produced since. Is this not correct?


Take care, Don Valentine


freight car kit discounts

ed_mines
 

Anyone know somewhere which discounts Atlas 1932 box cars?

Has F&C recently been offering 2 for one at shows?

Any of the other resin manufacturers having sales?

Ed


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

Charlie Vlk
 

No, the manufactuers do not have all the information that some modelers would like to have (for example, the first instance of a paint scheme being applied and the last car in service to carry the paint scheme).

Often times a manufacturer is working off of one photo of a car. Some artwork is prepared by people that have an interest in and some knowledge of the prototype and Model Railroading, but many are done by commecial artists that create an artwork to the best of their skill and ability who have little personal interest in the subject beyond the job.

Some art is dead accurate for the car depicted.... I make a practice of doing correct lettering for all data that I can see in photos... but some cars come through with fairly generic lettering when it gets down to the small data. The data for in-service cars and even cars when new will vary between cars (new date, repack / repaint dates and locations) but often it is not possible or practical to have dead accurate details down to the last nth for multiple roadnumbers of the same paint scheme... only the car numbers will be changed.

If someone is interested in limiting their purchases to cars that have reweigh and other data suitable for a narrow time frame, they can certainly do some modeling and restencil the cars. Maybe it should have been called Modeling Railroads instead of Model Railroading!

I would imagine that between the various on-line vendors, eBay, and other online sources one can probably come up with images of most items that have been produced. Given today's small batch production that allows for the great variety of continous new products I don't see any advantage for a manufacturer to try to maintain a encycopedia of all past products.... they are primarily interested in moving their new product into the distribution pipeline.... the wholesalers and retailers get a discount off of MSRP to move the product off of their shelves.

Where does the notion that manufacturers should provide research on their products end? Should it be required to provide a useage history of each car so that a person doesn't purchase a car that did not ever show up on the rails of the road that they model? Most manufacturers do show a reasonably sharp image (either online or in their advertisements) of the product when it is announced. I don't see any reason a manufacturer would include or post a two page brochure of fine print disclaimers similar to drugs about each car or locomotive they make....giving all sorts of reasons why a product should not be purchased by a very small segment of the market.

The internet can be used to do one's own research.... it isn't just for posting requests or the desire for it to be done by others!!! If one is going to limit their scope to a particular time range it is incumbant on that individual to do the research to figure out what that entails, not the manufacturers!

Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources


Re: Cutting styrene sheet into narrow strips...

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "stevelucas3" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:
I made a tool that uses a pair of razor blades (steel backing removed first) with a .020" styrene spacer between them. A 2" long piece of 1" wide by .032" thick brass strip, with three holes drilled in it to hold 4-40 screws, serves as the handle.

The blades and shim are assembled, the screws pushed through them and into the holes drilled in the handle. A 1/4" nut driver is used to tighten the nuts, and we have our tool.

I draw the tips of the blade at about a 30-degree angle along a steel straightedge across a sheet of .005" styrene, and can produce approximate .050" wide strips.

I tried making a similar tool without the spacer for .030" wide strips, but found that the blades flex too much for consistent width strips. Maybe a backing piece on the exposed side of the blades would help prevent blade flexing. But Evergreen makes .010" x .030" strips--I'll can live with the overthickness of these strips as the outside member of the Z's.


Steve, why don't you try using 2 - #11 X-Acto blades with a spacer as a scriber or even better use 2 - #11 surgical blades (much sharper).

These blades are pretty rigid.

Ed


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

Mark
 

I have found interest in this topic. One of our LHS stocks Branchline. I have bought at least a dozen and built half. He has not restocked these but there is still a fifty footer selection and a few reefers.
He knocks off a little and always asks how they are to build.

Mark Morgan

--- On Mon, 8/24/09, SUVCWORR@... <SUVCWORR@...> wrote:

From: SUVCWORR@... <SUVCWORR@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototype info from model mfgs
To: STMFC@...
Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 11:28 AM






 











If I don't have the car, I

can't answer the question easily.? That does not mean I cannot get the

information or don't have it from previously stocking the car.



As to why the information is not readily available from most

manufacturers, in my opinion it is the fear of lost sales and that those who blindly

buy cars etc will become educated to the correct P/L and car details

for the era they model..? As Bruce stated his LHS will order but won't

take back a car that is out of era for him.? The sale is the sale and

final.? I prefer to not alienate a customer by such action which may be

why I am a very small dealer and have found that providing such

information more often than not results in a sale that I otherwise

would not have made.? If the dates matter, the sale is not going to be

made if there is doubt about the era of the car.? Even with that

mistakes do occur regarding exactly when a paint scheme changed etc.



This seems to be wandering away from the purpose of this list so I will stop here rather than risk jail.



Rich



-----Original Message-----

From: bierglaeser <bierglaeser@ yahoo.com>

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 9:35 am

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Prototype info from model mfgs



Rich,

How do you answer the question if you don't have the car in stock? The nearest

decent hobby shop doesn't carry very much Branchline stock so am I to be

restricted to choosing only among the items he stocks?



Bruce,

100 miles?!?! That's local. Try 275 miles to the dealer mentioned in the above

paragraph.



Bruce, I agree with you. If Al can do it, they all can. There's no point in

keeping that information secret. I suppose for many, perhaps most, modelers the

information is important. Maybe they don't even know what it means but for a

few of us, it matters.



Gene Green



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Bruce Smith <smithbf@... > wrote:

On Aug 24, 2009, at 12:14 AM, SUVCWORR@... wrote:
Gene,
I answer these questions from customers all the time.? So you
should be able to ask your dealer before buying.
Rich Orr
Dealer? What dealer? I live more than 100 miles from the nearest
hobby shop that knows anything about or carries Branchline. Yes, my
local USA Hobbies will order them for me (at full price plus the 8%
local sales tax) but he doesn't give refunds based on paint schemes
or reweigh dates not being appropriate for my era. As I have noted
before, if Al Westerfield can provide an accurate timeline for each
car in an on-line web format, I'm baffled as to why others find it
apparently so difficult.
Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed. auburn.edu/ index.pl/ bruce_f._ smith2
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>____ _________ ___&#92;__/__ _ ____________ _________ _________ __
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__ ||__||__| |__||__|| __||
|/__________ _________ _________ _&#92;|_|____ _________ _________ _________ _|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


------------ --------- --------- ------



Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

SUVCWORR@...
 

If I don't have the car, I
can't answer the question easily.? That does not mean I cannot get the
information or don't have it from previously stocking the car.



As to why the information is not readily available from most
manufacturers, in my opinion it is the fear of lost sales and that those who blindly
buy cars etc will become educated to the correct P/L and car details
for the era they model..? As Bruce stated his LHS will order but won't
take back a car that is out of era for him.? The sale is the sale and
final.? I prefer to not alienate a customer by such action which may be
why I am a very small dealer and have found that providing such
information more often than not results in a sale that I otherwise
would not have made.? If the dates matter, the sale is not going to be
made if there is doubt about the era of the car.? Even with that
mistakes do occur regarding exactly when a paint scheme changed etc.

This seems to be wandering away from the purpose of this list so I will stop here rather than risk jail.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 9:35 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Prototype info from model mfgs










Rich,
How do you answer the question if you don't have the car in stock? The nearest
decent hobby shop doesn't carry very much Branchline stock so am I to be
restricted to choosing only among the items he stocks?

Bruce,
100 miles?!?! That's local. Try 275 miles to the dealer mentioned in the above
paragraph.

Bruce, I agree with you. If Al can do it, they all can. There's no point in
keeping that information secret. I suppose for many, perhaps most, modelers the
information is important. Maybe they don't even know what it means but for a
few of us, it matters.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


On Aug 24, 2009, at 12:14 AM, SUVCWORR@... wrote:

Gene,

I answer these questions from customers all the time.? So you
should be able to ask your dealer before buying.

Rich Orr
Dealer? What dealer? I live more than 100 miles from the nearest
hobby shop that knows anything about or carries Branchline. Yes, my
local USA Hobbies will order them for me (at full price plus the 8%
local sales tax) but he doesn't give refunds based on paint schemes
or reweigh dates not being appropriate for my era. As I have noted
before, if Al Westerfield can provide an accurate timeline for each
car in an on-line web format, I'm baffled as to why others find it
apparently so difficult.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: GPEX 977 and 969 Milk reefers in freight service for Ever Sweet OJ

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "riverman_vt" <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
The 8,000 gal cars were 52 ft. in length while the 6,000 gal. cars were only 40 ft. The quickest way to tell is to look at the side panels. On the 6,000 gal. cars there are three matching body panels centered in the total of seven on either side of the doors. On the 8,000 gal. cars that number increases to four matching panels out of the total of eight. If you are satisfied with the InterMountain car's
well documented shortcomings I suppose you could always get two and sacrifice one to get the needed panels or, more economically, get three and sacrifice one to get two of the needed 52 ft. length.
Didn't I just post a link to one of these cars in a museum recently? I suspect that GPEX 1021 is an 8000 gal. car, the photos show "leased to Fleischmann" stenciling, but I don't know the date or location of that service.

http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?freight=General+American+Pfaudler+Corp.=1021

Dennis


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Oops! I meant to say, "I suppose for many, perhaps most, modelers the information is UNimportant."

Obviously I need another cup of coffee.

Gene Green


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Rich,
How do you answer the question if you don't have the car in stock? The nearest decent hobby shop doesn't carry very much Branchline stock so am I to be restricted to choosing only among the items he stocks?

Bruce,
100 miles?!?! That's local. Try 275 miles to the dealer mentioned in the above paragraph.

Bruce, I agree with you. If Al can do it, they all can. There's no point in keeping that information secret. I suppose for many, perhaps most, modelers the information is important. Maybe they don't even know what it means but for a few of us, it matters.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


On Aug 24, 2009, at 12:14 AM, SUVCWORR@... wrote:

Gene,

I answer these questions from customers all the time.? So you
should be able to ask your dealer before buying.

Rich Orr
Dealer? What dealer? I live more than 100 miles from the nearest
hobby shop that knows anything about or carries Branchline. Yes, my
local USA Hobbies will order them for me (at full price plus the 8%
local sales tax) but he doesn't give refunds based on paint schemes
or reweigh dates not being appropriate for my era. As I have noted
before, if Al Westerfield can provide an accurate timeline for each
car in an on-line web format, I'm baffled as to why others find it
apparently so difficult.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0