And how about MATCHING PAINT ?Armand Premo

Ted--

It took a minute or two to visualise, but I'll give it a try.

Thanks,

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Were those "banana docks" in LA and San Francisco actually named or
otherwise designated as such?

Rob,

Here is a link to the Port of Los Angeles "Virtual History Tour" web site. This is the page regarding Berth 147 - United Fruit Company.

http://www.laporthistory.org/level3/berth_147.html

And, here is a link with info on banana shipments through the port...

http://www.laporthistory.org/level4/Berth147/berth147_trend2.html

Hope these are helpful,

-John Hile

On Aug 25, 2009, at 7:28 AM, cvsne wrote:

It's hard to provide specific dates on a "generic" model like the Atlas car . . . although I suppose they could simply "wing it."

I'm not entirely sure what the term "paint" or "repaint" date refers to. Are you defining it as the time a particular scheme was introduced?

Marty McGuirk

Marty,

Ideally, the manufacturer's web site for RTR cars would include the following:
Built date
Paint scheme date
New/Reweigh date

We all know that paint schemes lasted well beyond the introduction of new schemes, but obviously if you model 1944 and the scheme was introduced in 1945, it's a no go. The NEW/reweigh is the least important as that is easily changed, and many of us do that... but it is still nice to know.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, SUVCWORR@... wrote:

And I was not commenting on the accuracy of the model.? I was using that as a current example of Atlas' hit or miss effort to provide build, re-weigh and paint dates.? Nothing more.

We all know the example used is not an accurate model of anything.

Rich Orr

It's hard to provide specific dates on a "generic" model like the Atlas car . . . although I suppose they could simply "wing it."

I'm not entirely sure what the term "paint" or "repaint" date refers to. Are you defining it as the time a particular scheme was introduced?

Marty McGuirk

Here is how I have been doing it. Using the edge of the 0.005" styrene
sheet as a guide, glue small bits of strip at the ends, abutting the edge of
the 0.005" styrene. Place a straight metal edge against the strips and then
cut using your preferred blade - no. 11, scalpel, etc. You then just have
to trim it out where your cut meets the strips you glued to the 0.005"
styrene. You are only bound by how thick you make those strips at the
edges. If you want a strip of 0.005" styrene that is 0.055" wide, then use
a 0.015" and a 0.040" strip glued against each other. I have a sheet of
0.005" styrene that I use for only making custom-width strips. This is
probably hard for some to visualize, but it took me longer to type it than
it does to do. I think I covered this in the Essential Freight Cars
installment on the UP B-50-17 if you want a visual.
Regards,
Ted Culotta

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Aug 20, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

....Richard says the the laser cut wood
floor is too thick. How much too thick? Can it be lowered by
sanding?

Not a whole lot, and I think it can be pared down - but the
question is whether the floor can be pursuaded to part company
with the body, as the material should be removed from the bottom in
order to preserve the detail stamped into the top.

Actually, several of the flats I examined at the LHS were showing signs of the floor taking the initiative to separate itself from the frame at the ends.

-Fritz Milhaupt
Modeling Editor, PMHS
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

Were those "banana docks" in LA and San Francisco actually named or otherwise designated as such?

The one in San Francisco was built by SP and was near the commercial warehouse, the Terminal Building, owned by the railroad just south of China Basin. I don't know if the dock itself had its own name. There are photos of the facility in the PFE book, page 372. Likewise in Los Angeles, I know of records of PFE using old reefers for (uniced) transport of bananas from San Pedro (Los Angeles Harbor) into downtown LA and beyond, but don't know what name the dock might have had. In the PFE book, it's stated that Northern Pacific served a banana dock in Seattle (p. 373).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Ok - thanks Tony - that's a start. So ships brought the fruit some ways up the west coast - which makes economic sense to me (as would continuing the rest of the way).

Were those "banana docks" in LA and San Francisco actually named or otherwise designated as such?

I know the docks in Vancouver pretty well (though not everything that went through them), and have yet to see a reference to a banana dock here. If bananas were received here by ship (which I expect but question whether it was unusual or frequent), I expect it could have been at any of a number of the larger piers that had ready access to proper storage - but again, no indication what facilities of that sort existed in Vancouver BC. I'm not even sure what I would be looking for in terms of generic warehouse descriptions. Cold storage? Or something else?


Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:58 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] West India Fruit & Steamship #106 and #321

Rob Kirkham wrote:

I do have records showing the produce shipped into Vancouver for
1953, and it identifies Central America alone as the source. But is
says nothing about whether shipments were delivered via one route or
multiple routes, and so it seems possible they might have arrived by
train from an east coast Canadian port, by train from a Gulf or
Atlantic coast USA port (explaining the cars in question), or via
ship at a west coast Canadian port. I wonder if there is any
information supporting any of these alternatives to the WIF&SS
service?

There were large banana docks at both Los Angeles and San
Francisco in the 1950s. I don't know about Seattle.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Rob Kirkham wrote:

I do have records showing the produce shipped into Vancouver for 1953, and it identifies Central America alone as the source. But is says nothing about whether shipments were delivered via one route or multiple routes, and so it seems possible they might have arrived by train from an east coast Canadian port, by train from a Gulf or Atlantic coast USA port (explaining the cars in question), or via ship at a west coast Canadian port. I wonder if there is any information supporting any of these alternatives to the WIF&SS service?

There were large banana docks at both Los Angeles and San Francisco in the 1950s. I don't know about Seattle.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

I've come across a couple of photos showing the above noted cars in Vancouver B.C. in 1952. That's a long way for a load of bananas to come by rail, and kind of surprising to me. So I am wondering if my guesswork is out of whack or this trip would have been repeated over the years. More particularly, what is the chance such movements would have been made in 1946? I ask not because I expect someone to know what cars travelled in those cars to Vancouver that year, but rather for a general sense of the banana trade in these cars - did anything significant change in the market or marketing of bananas by this company during those 6 years that might suggest a change?

I do have records showing the produce shipped into Vancouver for 1953, and it identifies Central America alone as the source. But is says nothing about whether shipments were delivered via one route or multiple routes, and so it seems possible they might have arrived by train from an east coast Canadian port, by train from a Gulf or Atlantic coast USA port (explaining the cars in question), or via ship at a west coast Canadian port. I wonder if there is any information supporting any of these alternatives to the WIF&SS service?

Thanks in advance for any leads I can follow.

Rob Kirkham
Surrey, B.C.

And I was not commenting on the accuracy of the model.? I was using that as a current example of Atlas' hit or miss effort to provide build, re-weigh and paint dates.? Nothing more.

We all know the example used is not an accurate model of anything.

Rich Orr

--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@verizon.net> wrote:

From: Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Cutting styrene sheet into narrow strips...
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 4:48 PM






 





----- Original Message -----

From: soolinehistory



I actually had some samples of Evergreen sheet cut on a waterjet, and all I

can say is, it ain't pretty. Waterjets are used to cut hard materials.

Styrene isn't that hard, and just kind of shreds.

----- Original Message -----



Harder materials can be cut (*), but they are not the exclusive application

for WJC. Diapers, fabric blanks for clothing, foam, and carpet (Did you

ever see an intricate logo or emblem in the lobby of a hotel or business?)

are among the many "soft" things it is used for.



(IIRC, really hard things like ceramics can't be cut because of surface

fracturing or something.)



KL


I would respectfully disagree on both counts. As the proprietor of Industrial Heritage Scale Models back in the '90s. I used water jet cut styrene for my line of structure kits. At the time, it was considered not possible to cut styrene with a laser, which I was able to have done successfully  several years later.The bents for the coal tipple were .100" and water jet cut, but there was a substantial "grooving" across the pieces that was a little too rough to represent rough sawn woodAs an architect, I also saw ceramic materials cut for intricate logos using a waterjet.CJ Riley
Bainbridge Island WA








I would respectfully disagree on both points. As the proprietor of Indi








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I knew I would forget a Sponsor, many thanks to Rapido as well.

Greg Martin

Guys,

I can honestly say I now have a deep appreciation for the word HOST.

I am hoping all of you had a great time and it was truly you folks that
made Rails by the River 2009 a great success. There were 83 of you here and
for a grass roots event I would say that was a success.

I was pleased to see so many models on display and I was pleased to see so
many passenger car models on display and I not sure that I have seen so
many at one meet, you guys impressed me. It was great to see so many Pennsy
models as well.

Special thanks goes out to Andy Bell for the help setting up and Mark
Kerlick and Jim Evans for a most unique Chinese Raffle. And all our sponsors who
contributed to it's success; ACCURAIL, ATHEARN TRAINS, ATLAS MODEL
RAILROADS, EXACT RAIL, INTERMOUNTAIN RAILWAYS, MICROTRAINS, TANGENT MODLES, TRAIN
VIDEOS, DVDs and PARTS and 5th AVENUE CAR SHOPS.

We had a pleasant surprise with the unannounced arrival of Chris and Dave
Clune from EXACT RAIL, I was certainly pleased to see them both.

Thanks to Joe Fugate, Charlie Comstock and Mindy Basse from Model Railroad
Hobbyist for being with us.

Many thanks to our presenters Richard Hendrickson, Mark Kerlick, David
Banes, Naomi Petersen, Jim Murrie and Stan Rydarowizc and those that attended
their clinics and were patient with all the technical issues.

Yes there will be a Rails by the River 2010. We look forward to seeing you
all here in Salem then.

Thank You All!

Greg Martin




Jim Hayes writes:

Great show. Greg, I appreciate all your work in making it a success.


Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

Rich Orr wrote:
"The current new model -- rebuilt USRA has some but not all dates."

...which is completely irrelevant since the model(s) are bogus hermaphrodites.


Ben Hom

Guys -

Just a wild guess, but I would think that Evergreen would have cut thin styrene sheet with a guillotine shear. The very small edge serations, if vertically oriented from top to bottom on the strips, would confirm this. Another wild guess would be that their scribed styrene sheet is made in an horizontal milling machine-like device.

I have used a 12" Di-Acro shear to cut 0.005" thick shimstock half-hard brass into 0.070" wide boiler bands ("O" scale). The width of the cut strip is set with a backgauge (in my case, a "frontgauge" for the real thin sheet), and the sheet adjacent to the cutting blade must be held down on the table while cutting to achieve an even width down its entire length. The shear will cut thin stuff all day long - have sheared styrene and phosphor bronze up to 0.030" thick, too. The width varied about 0.001" plus or minus down the length of the strips. I set the "frontgauge" with a pair of Scherr-Tumico depth micrometers so that the cut strips are not tapered.

I just sold three small 8-1/2" press brakes on Ebay. They will make a somewhat sharp bend in thin sheet brass. However, simply bending brass to a right angle will not make a dead sharp bend. The thickness of the sheet will cause a radius on the corner of the bend equal to about 62% of the sheet thickness. In other words, if you bend 0.005" thick brass sheet, you will still have a radius in the corner of the bend of about 0.003". The same rules apply to styrene.

To make a dead sharp bend in brass, you have to use sufficient "tonnage" to cause the brass to actually flow at the corner ("coining.") That is difficult. However, it may be possible to cause the styrene to flow at a much lower pressure. Frankly, I have never tried that!

Here is the Di-Acro website:

<http://diacro.com/>

Their machines sometimes sell for reasonable prices on Ebay.

A.T. Kott

Charlie Vlk wrote:

Where does the notion that manufacturers should provide research on their products end? Should it be required to provide a useage history of each car so that a person doesn't purchase a car that did not ever show up on the rails of the road that they model?

Back in the early days of Branchline's passenger car project, when I was beginning to realize just how detailed Pullman's records were, I suggested, tongue in cheek, that Branchline offer limited edition "RPA Line" kits, maybe 100 of each car name. I would provide information in each kit showing the shopping dates over the entire life of the car, so that those modelers who obsess over such things could move those cars off the layout if they would have been in the shops at the time of an operating session.

Just a random idea that sounded good after a few beers. But I bet they would have sold like hotcakes.....

Tom Madden

Kurt Laughlin wrote:

(IIRC, really hard things like ceramics can't be cut because of surface fracturing or something.)

That can happen, but the biggest reason is when the ceramic is harder than the cutting tool. That just won't work <g>. The real issue is whether the material to be cut is brittle or not. Very hard materials which are tough, like high-alloy steels, are perfectly cuttable without fracture problems--provided of course that the cutter is harder than the cuttee. As it were.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Have you considered bending this from .005 brass sheet, using a photoetch bending tool like this:

http://ausfwerks.com//techniques/FB/main.html

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/101-200/tnt143_PE-bending-tool_Tan/tnt143.htm

KL