Date   

Re: Rock Island box car?

rwitt_2000
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:


On Aug 26, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

The Ebay seller says this is a Rock Island box car. Anyone
recognize it?

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/myoungwisc/May%20Slides/
riBracedBoxcar_unk_unk_stamped.jpg
The design is USRA 50 ton single sheathed. Definitely not Rock
Island, which owned no such box cars. And definitely not built for
the USRA, as the ends are 7/8 corrugated, not 5/5/5. I'm not aware
of any US railroads that had such cars, but the Canadian Pacific had
a lot of them built in the early 1920s.

Richard Hendrickson

The press steel bracing show signs of repairs where they trapped water
and it received A-B scheduled brakes, but without any paint or
stenciling visible the owner remains a mystery. If the photographer had
looked at the trucks and noted the railroad initials cast in the
sideframes Tim would have his answer.

Bob Witt


Re: Rock Island box car? - How about C&NW?

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote: But it turns out I have a Soph Marty photo of an identical C&NW car
As a pitch, Mike Moore will be showing some of Soph's freight car slides at this year's (last) Naperville meet.
Clark Propst


Re: C&O "For Progress"

mforsyth127
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


The "For Progress" slogan was applied from early 1948 on.
Tim,

Thanks for the insight. Do you have any idea about the yellow on red car versus the white on red car?

Thanks,

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division/
Erie Jefferson Division in
"O" scale, Fall of 1951


Re: C&O "For Progress"

Tim O'Connor
 

The "For Progress" slogan was applied from early 1948 on.

Can anyone advise as to when the C&O first started lettering box cars with the "For Progress" slogan, and in addition, when they started using that slogan on oxide red cars, but were doing so in yellow versus white?

I have a few color images of those cars (w/yellow "For Progress" on red car with black ends and roof) floating in some northbound D&H merchandise trains on their Penn Division, circa 1950.

More data on specific a date for that scheme would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division/
Erie Jefferson Division in
"O" scale, Fall of 1951


Re: Intermountain 8K Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 27, 2009, at 3:55 AM, atsfsd26 wrote:

IM lists an 8K tank car stencilled for Canton Tank Car Co and
another for Globe Oil.
Are there prototypes for these models and while I gather Globe Oil
was an oil producer or distributor, what did Canton do?
If correct are these cars appropriate for 1953?
The good news is that both the Canton Tank Car Co. and Globe Oil cars
are based on prototype photos. The bad news is that both companies
were absorbed by others well before 1953 so the prototypes were no
longer around by that date.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: C&O "For Progress"

mforsyth127
 

Group (and C&O Mavens in particular)

Can anyone advise as to when the C&O first started lettering box cars with the "For Progress" slogan, and in addition, when they started using that slogan on oxide red cars, but were doing so in yellow versus white?

I have a few color images of those cars (w/yellow "For Progress" on red car with black ends and roof) floating in some northbound D&H merchandise trains on their Penn Division, circa 1950.

More data on specific a date for that scheme would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division/
Erie Jefferson Division in
"O" scale, Fall of 1951


Intermountain 8K Tank Cars

atsfsd26 <davenorth@...>
 

IM lists an 8K tank car stencilled for Canton Tank Car Co and another for Globe Oil.
Are there prototypes for these models and while I gather Globe Oil was an oil producer or distributor, what did Canton do?
If correct are these cars appropriate for 1953?
Thanks in advance
cheers
Dave North


Re: Rock Island box car? - How about C&NW?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 26, 2009, at 6:53 PM, Rob Adams wrote:

I'd wager that it is a former C&NW car built in the 1920's. See Jeff
Koeller's article on p. 42 of the September 2003 issue of Mainline
Modeler. I believe that Sunshine has produced a kit for these cars in
HO. See their kit #49.1.
Rob, I'm sure you are correct. I hadn't considered the C&NW cars
because they were not as tall as the USRA cars, and the proportion of
length to width is hard to judge in the photo. But it turns out I
have a Soph Marty photo of an identical C&NW car - maybe even the
same car - slightly less weathered and with the same white board
above the reporting marks, which doubtless carried special assignment
stenciling.

Richard Hendrickson


B&O P31 Flats

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

I picked up one of the new models. I understand the deck issues. What trucks
were these cars fitted with when built. The B&O Modeler has one prototype
photo of a P-25a and it has 70 ton spring plank trucks. I'm wondering if
the IM Trucks should be replaced.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: DL&W 53000-53259

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

Thanks Rich:
Do you have any photos of these cars. Unfortunately I don't know how to
take the technical (Correct) side frame designation and convert it to the
terms I know like ASF Ride Control, Spring Plankless Etc.
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
cinderandeight@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:48 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re:DL&W 53000-53259

Brian,
The equipment diagram for these cars shows the truck side frames to be
a mix of ACF-21359-AE, and Symington-Gould TF5318, with Sym.-Gould
bolsters. Three cars had Chrysler high speed trucks (#53004, 53090,
53126). The
cars were built by Magor Car Corp. in Jan.-Feb. 1950. Ten cars were
equipped with DF loaders and renumbered 84975-84984.
Rich Burg






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Rock Island box car? - How about C&NW?

Rob Adams
 

Tim;

I'd wager that it is a former C&NW car built in the 1920's. See Jeff Koeller's article on p. 42 of the September 2003 issue of Mainline Modeler. I believe that Sunshine has produced a kit for these cars in HO. See their kit #49.1.

Kind regards, Rob Adams





Tim O'Connor wrote:


Re: Rock Island box car?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 26, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

The Ebay seller says this is a Rock Island box car. Anyone
recognize it?

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/myoungwisc/May%20Slides/
riBracedBoxcar_unk_unk_stamped.jpg
The design is USRA 50 ton single sheathed. Definitely not Rock
Island, which owned no such box cars. And definitely not built for
the USRA, as the ends are 7/8 corrugated, not 5/5/5. I'm not aware
of any US railroads that had such cars, but the Canadian Pacific had
a lot of them built in the early 1920s.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Prototype accuracy: a mfr's viewpoint

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jim King notes:

"Second, as for collecting info to make kits or RTR "right", this is all a
matter of economics for the manufacturer. There are at least 2 very basic
differences between resin kit makers and mass-production houses like Athearn
and Kadee. (1) resin kit makers usually target prototypes that were
obscure, maybe ran on only 1 road or had several variations that could be
handled by supplying parts that the modeler chooses to apply and..."

Just to avoid misleading those that might not be aware, and while some rather obscure cars may have been produced by resin makers, this cedrtainly is not the usual case. Westerfield has done both the USRA SS and DS box cars, several versions of MP and Frisco SS box cars, and various GN SS and DS box cars, and the UP B-50-20, Sunshine has produced the NP 40 ft box car with radial roofs, CB&Q SS box cars along with various SP SS box cars among the literaly thousands of cars they have produced, etc., etc. I mention only those that I have sitting on tracks within viewing distance.

To add to that, the Standard Tank Car models that SC&F is producing are certainly not obscure and to even suggest that the UP/SP Harriman headend cars that SC&F is producing are "obscure" is tantamount to referring to the the Santa Fe as an eastern RR...and we all know better than that now.<G>.

Mike Brock


Re: Prototype accuracy: a mfr's viewpoint

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Kay wrote:
I have built a large number of resin, P2K, Branchline and flat kits. I enjoy building them, + painting and decaling as well. BUT,if I can get a ready-made car of good quality, I can spend more time doing other modeling tasks. Thus, I have a mix of kits and RTR cars,and will continue to buy that way.
Well said, Steve. My preferences, enjoyments and approach are essentially the same.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Prototype accuracy: a mfr's viewpoint

StephenK
 

First of all, thanks for the insights. It is easy for us modelers to get a totally wrong idea on how things work, since we just see the finished products and not all of the design and research that went before.

Second, I have built a large number of resin, P2K, Branchline and flat kits. I enjoy building them, + painting and decaling as well. BUT,if I can get a ready-made car of good quality, I can spend more time doing other modeling tasks. Thus, I have a mix of kits and RTR cars,and will continue to buy that way.

Steve Kay

--- In STMFC@..., "Jim King" <jimking3@...> wrote:

As a resin kit manufacturer, let me give my perspective on what can and
can't be duplicated prototypically in scale.



First off, keep in mind that all of us modelers are trying to create the
illusion of reality using scale models. It is physically impossible to
reproduce every part .. to scale .. on any car, loco or structure and still
be able to manufacturer it, unless you're working in scale where you can
ride the equipment! An example would be a free-standing piece of ¼" thick
plate in HO, which scales down to .0028" actual size. That's about the
thickness of a piece of cellophane tape. Even with today's rapid
prototyping technology (like I use) and fancy injection molding, getting a
part this small out of a rubber mold or injection mold would be nearly
impossible without breaking the vast majority.



Second, as for collecting info to make kits or RTR "right", this is all a
matter of economics for the manufacturer. There are at least 2 very basic
differences between resin kit makers and mass-production houses like Athearn
and Kadee. (1) resin kit makers usually target prototypes that were
obscure, maybe ran on only 1 road or had several variations that could be
handled by supplying parts that the modeler chooses to apply and (2) the
amount of time and dollars invested in a project to design, tool, produce
and market anything can seem to be just as daunting for either kit or RTR
companies.



I'm sure credible manufacturers apply due diligence in researching a
prototype, such as buying drawings and photos, field research, book
research, etc. All of this takes time so having as many prototypes paint
schemes for 1 "basic" car is key to "the big guys" being successful. It's
obvious to even the most novice modeler that the retail price is a direct
reflection on how much effort went into a particular RTR car. Compare a
Kadee boxcar at $30+ with separate everything to a Branchline "Yardmaster
series" with everything molded on at less than half the price. Designing,
producing and assembling all those parts takes a lot of effort and money, so
why shouldn't the retail price be higher? This is also true for resin kit
makers .. the same is true for us "little guys". I put just as much effort
in designing patterns as what would be required for injection molding but I
stop short of producing RTR models, else the retail price would far exceed
$100 … each.



If we lived in a perfect world, we'd be able to "dial up" some CAD program
with an infinitely large library of parts, combine them in the mixture we
want for our special XYZ-car or engine, send that info to a machine that
would build the shell and underframe and spit it out either painted/lettered
or unlettered for custom builders. All of this for $20. I doubt any of us
in the "50+" crowd (I'm 50) will live long enough to see that happen so, in
the meantime, let's be happy with the HUGE amount of offerings everyone has
made available in just the past 5-7 years .. but also keep striving for
better. That's just the American way!



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

<http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Rock Island box car?

mcindoefalls
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

The Ebay seller says this is a Rock Island box car. Anyone
recognize it?
USRA S/S, no? With newer trucks and AB brakes.

Walt Lankenau


Rock Island box car?

Tim O'Connor
 

The Ebay seller says this is a Rock Island box car. Anyone
recognize it?

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/myoungwisc/May%20Slides/riBracedBoxcar_unk_unk_stamped.jpg

Tim O


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Bill, glad to see you took no offense at my comments.

And I appreciate your in-depth look at the manufacturing side. Many of us modelers have very little knowledge of what is involved
in seeing our favorite boxcar become available in the scale we prefer.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

Charlie Vlk
 

Kadee cars are not in the same product category as other brands...... the line is a low-production high customization botique operation which makes some spectacular products... at a corresponding cost.
We are fortunate to have some companies that can have mostly vertically integrated operations capable of producing product in the US, but most companies cannot afford to have such low volume complex tooling and produce so few copies of unique items.

I recall the hue and cry from HO guys when the P2K kits came out that LifeLike had the nerve to charge seven bucks for an unassembled model!! And, while the marketplace has shifted more towards to the paying for quality end of things there still is some resistance to high end freight cars (although some cars are selling quite well in spite of a (gulp!!) $45 price tag!!).

I was talking more about the mid-range cars that have higher production and more general distribution....

Charlie Vlk



Well.....Let me see.......How many problems have we seen with Kadee's offerings?Armand Premo

.


Re: Prototype info from model mfgs

Charlie Vlk
 

Sorry, I see Bill S. did jump into the fray.... this evil of responding to something that has happened is the result of getting over 250 emails a day and reading them from the most recent to the oldest so that you can keep the "ones I will get around to responding to or doing something about" in the inbox instead of burying in a folder forever....
Charlie Vlk



[

OK, I've been watching this one for a while, and laughing occasionally. I'll now throw in my two bits, predicated by the fact that I am no longer at Branchline, but still proud of what we accomplished way back when (or so it seems...)





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