Date   

Re: Diatomite, talc and cement.. in boxcars or covered hoppers?

Tim O'Connor
 

I think talc was still shipped predominantly in box cars in
the 1950's. (For that matter so was cement.) Talc and portland
cement have very different densities so it seems unlikely a covered
hopper would be suited for both of those commodities. Nowadays talc
cars are almost twice as large as cement cars even thought they have
the same GRL.

Diatomite? You mean diatomaceous earth?

Tim O'Connor

I was looking for a new STMFC project last night, when I happened upon an excellent HO Intermountain ACF covered hopper car kit that I'd squirreled away. Just a nice model, though one has to follow the instructions Very Carefully. Very Carefully!

In 1956, I'm assuming that the most common usage of these cars would have been for bulk cement. But how about bulk loading diatomite or talc as well? Could a car be loaded with either cement, talc, or diatomite without needing to be cleaned extensively between loads? And can anyone reference an on-line photo of a weathered talc or diatomite-service covered hopper?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Lucas.


Rivet sizing

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

For the post-WW2 era, what determined the sizes of the round or button head compression rivets used in building freight cars?

What were the typical shank and head diameters used? . . . example: 1920s to 1940s gondola cars?

I presume the spacing or pitch was based on where the stresses (or observed failures) were typically the highest?

Do the raised rivet head decals reference the shank or their visible head diameters.

Were there standard practices published by the Master Car Builder's or ARA for rivet sellection, spacing, hole sizes, etc.?

Al Kresse


Re: City of Vancouver image archive

Ian Cranstone
 

On 2-Sep-09, at 11:31 AM, Rob Kirkham wrote:

Having looked through the collection of prints and negatives in the
archives, I infer that Mr. Frost worked locally around the Vancouver area
for a few decades starting in the mid 1930's.
There's a page on the site which notes that he was born c. 1884 and died in 1976, and seemingly kept photographing into the 1970s.
While his earlier photos may technically be public domain, you won't get
decent quality prints from the web page and so you'll be stuck paying the
City of Vancouver's fees for use. They start around $20.00 for a 8x 10
glossy print (or a CD image) and go up if you want to publish. Further, I
believe his gift of them to the City was on pretty strict terms about giving
proper credit and other limitations on the use of the photos. All something
to discuss with an archivist if your need is to do more than just get a
copy.

I went ahead and ordered a number of photographs from the Frost collection (the copyright holder is noted as the City of Vancouver), and checked the "Other" box instead of the "Fair Use" box on the website order form. I opted to receive digital scans (8x10's are the same price at $17 each -- and one supposes are probably printed from the same scans), and there is a small shipping charge levied as well. I received this reply later the same day:
===========

"We have received your online order, thank you, and processed payment against the credit card.
We anticipate your order will be in the mail by the end of the week, so you may wish to watch your mailbox thereafter.

"Most of the images ordered are under copyright. It is the responsibility of the User to determine copyright status and ensure copyright compliance.

"Please note, there is a photographer's restriction on the images. The photographer's name, Walter E. Frost, is to be credited with the image. All other crediting requirements still apply.

"If the image is being used in a publication, kindly forward the complimentary copy to the City of Vancouver Archives.
Thank you for your order and for using the services of the City of Vancouver Archives."

===========

I wasn't queried as to my plans for "Other" (which at the moment are mostly research, but may well include publication in the pages of CN LINES), nor are the terms onorous -- the C. Robert Craig Memorial Library here in Ottawa has essentially the same terms, although probably charges a little less for services due to the all-volunteer nature of the operation (and the free support provided by the City of Ottawa Archives).

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net


Re: Eastern Car Works Status? (off list)

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

Sorry that was supposed to go off list.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Brian Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:54 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Eastern Car Works Status? (off list)

Rich: I have two stashed away in the basement that are surplus now that the
Athearn kit is out. Would you be interested? I am not sure if they are AAr
or G26 though I could check.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
rhcdmc
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Eastern Car Works Status?

I do have an Athearn gon, and yes it is excellent. The reason for the AAR
gon needs is for some kitbashing projects. I have a bunch of G26's already.
I will be purchasing more Athearn gons on eBay, the last one I bought was
actually less than what the list price of the ECW kit!!!

Thanks guys,
Rich


--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Athearn makes the same AAR 65' mill gondola, except with the
correct floor and interior.

Tim O'


I am in need of their AAR Mill gons, amongst other kits.
Thanks,
Rich C



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Eastern Car Works Status? (off list)

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

Rich: I have two stashed away in the basement that are surplus now that the
Athearn kit is out. Would you be interested? I am not sure if they are AAr
or G26 though I could check.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
rhcdmc
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Eastern Car Works Status?

I do have an Athearn gon, and yes it is excellent. The reason for the AAR
gon needs is for some kitbashing projects. I have a bunch of G26's already.
I will be purchasing more Athearn gons on eBay, the last one I bought was
actually less than what the list price of the ECW kit!!!

Thanks guys,
Rich


--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Athearn makes the same AAR 65' mill gondola, except with the
correct floor and interior.

Tim O'


I am in need of their AAR Mill gons, amongst other kits.
Thanks,
Rich C



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Diatomite, talc and cement.. in boxcars or covered hoppers?

stevelucas3 <stevelucas3@...>
 

Tony--

Thanks for your quick response. By the way, you read my mind. I did mean dolomite loading, not diatomite.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Steve Lucas wrote:
In 1956, I'm assuming that the most common usage of these cars would
have been for bulk cement. But how about bulk loading diatomite or
talc as well? Could a car be loaded with either cement, talc, or
diatomite without needing to be cleaned extensively between loads?
And can anyone reference an on-line photo of a weathered talc or
diatomite-service covered hopper?
Yes, very dominantly for cement in that year. But chemical
companies and others were beginning to use covered hoppers for other
cargos. I doubt if dolomite (limestone) would contaminate cement, but
both talc and diatomite will change the setting rate, and thus the
final strength, of concrete, so I'd doubt they would be loaded without
cleaning. And that was true for most CH cars in leased chemical or
foodstuff service AFAIK.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Diatomite, talc and cement.. in boxcars or covered hoppers?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
In 1956, I'm assuming that the most common usage of these cars would have been for bulk cement. But how about bulk loading diatomite or talc as well? Could a car be loaded with either cement, talc, or diatomite without needing to be cleaned extensively between loads? And can anyone reference an on-line photo of a weathered talc or diatomite-service covered hopper?
Yes, very dominantly for cement in that year. But chemical companies and others were beginning to use covered hoppers for other cargos. I doubt if dolomite (limestone) would contaminate cement, but both talc and diatomite will change the setting rate, and thus the final strength, of concrete, so I'd doubt they would be loaded without cleaning. And that was true for most CH cars in leased chemical or foodstuff service AFAIK.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Diatomite, talc and cement.. in boxcars or covered hoppers?

stevelucas3 <stevelucas3@...>
 

I was looking for a new STMFC project last night, when I happened upon an excellent HO Intermountain ACF covered hopper car kit that I'd squirreled away. Just a nice model, though one has to follow the instructions Very Carefully. Very Carefully!

In 1956, I'm assuming that the most common usage of these cars would have been for bulk cement. But how about bulk loading diatomite or talc as well? Could a car be loaded with either cement, talc, or diatomite without needing to be cleaned extensively between loads? And can anyone reference an on-line photo of a weathered talc or diatomite-service covered hopper?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Lucas.


Re: West India Fruit & Steamship #106 and #321

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sep 2, 2009, at 6:58 PM, proto48er wrote:

What was the date that this AC&F proprietary roof was first applied
to boxcars? Was it as early as April, 1948, and, if so, on what series
of cars?

Thanks for your reply. Don't go out of your way to answer this - just
wondered whether you knew the answer without further research!
A.T.,
The earliest build date was March 1948, WLE 23500-23749. Reading's
earliest box cars (107500-107999) with this roof were built 8-48
followed by M-K-T cars in 12-48 (97001-97300). All of these cars had
ACF proprietary corrugated ends as well as the roofs.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Eastern Car Works Status?

 

I do have an Athearn gon, and yes it is excellent. The reason for the AAR gon needs is for some kitbashing projects. I have a bunch of G26's already. I will be purchasing more Athearn gons on eBay, the last one I bought was actually less than what the list price of the ECW kit!!!

Thanks guys,
Rich

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Athearn makes the same AAR 65' mill gondola, except with the
correct floor and interior.

Tim O'


I am in need of their AAR Mill gons, amongst other kits.
Thanks,
Rich C


Re: West India Fruit & Steamship #106 and #321

proto48er
 

Ed -

What was the date that this AC&F proprietary roof was first applied to boxcars? Was it as early as April, 1948, and, if so, on what series of cars?

Thanks for your reply. Don't go out of your way to answer this - just wondered whether you knew the answer without further research!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Sep 1, 2009, at 7:59 PM, ealabhan0 wrote:

The article's roster of ACF-built cars with their carbuilders
"dart-not" end matched the road number series, lot number, and built
date as in the AC&F book above, adding for modelers that this series
of WIF box cars had a rectangular panel roof, 12-panel welded sides,
8-foot door (postwar improved Youngstown per the photo), Miner hand
brake, and Apex TriLok running board, plus that the sides and ends
paint matched Floquil ATSF Mineral Brown, with black underframe and
trucks, and a galvanized roof with only the roof seam caps coated with
sealer and painted box car red.
Dave,
Actually, the roofs of the WIF 200-349 series were not rectangular
panel. They weren't diagonal panel roof either. For the longest time I
didn't know what this roof really looked like. Looking at a broadside
view of a builder's photo leads to an incorrect conclusion of the type
of roof applied to these cars.

A number of box cars built by AC&F from 1948 to 1954 had an unusual
proprietary roof called an ACF Riveted Roof. The 1949/51 and 1953 Car
Builder's Cyclopedias show a drawing of the roof that was used on a
series of Rock Island 40' box cars. The WIF 200-349 cars used the same
roof.

When viewed from the side at a relatively low angle, the roof appears
like any Murphy rectangular panel roof. However, the width of the
raised panel doesn't span across the roof. Rather, there's a depression
that splits the raised panel into three sections. Near the outside of
the raised portion, the middle section is slightly higher than the
adjoining areas. Inboard of this section (depicted by a rectangle on
the drawing in the CBC) is where the depression begins. The depression
tapers towards the center line of the car. It's difficult to describe
this roof in words, and it takes some interpretation to figure out from
the drawing in the CBC what this roof actually looks like. ACF drawings
of the roof have cross sections in several areas that completely define
its contour.

Bill Schneider had a copy of the ACF Riveted Roof drawing when he
worked at Branchline Trains, so he knows what it looks like. Once upon
a time there was a plan for BT to produce welded-side box cars, some of
which had this unique style of roof. A number of roads owned box cars
built by AC&F with these roofs including Reading, MKT, C&EI, WLE, ACL,
BAR, CN&L, CRR, ITC, KCS, RI, and WIF. There were even a few series of
50' box cars having this type of roof (CNW, GTW, Timken).

Unfortunately our hopes of the welded-side box cars didn't materialize,
nor did the ACF Riveted Roof. Maybe some day.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



FS: Moody's Industrials 1950

Dave Nelson
 

New today. Don't know seller. Price is average.

1. Moody's Manual of Investments, American and Foreign: Industrial
Securities 1950,

Moody's Investors Service, 1950, Hardcover, , Red hardcover with white text
on the spine, former library book with minor wear -
Bookseller: Books From California, Simi Valley, CA
Price: US$ 75.00

View or Order this Book:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/ListingDetails?bi=1395545081&cm_ven=nl&cm_ca
t=trg&cm_pla=want&cm_ite=viewbook
---------------------------------------------------


They also have the 1946 edition but IMO the price for that edition is way
out of line.

Dave Nelson


Re: Eastern Car Works Status?

Tim O'Connor
 

Athearn makes the same AAR 65' mill gondola, except with the
correct floor and interior.

Tim O'

I am in need of their AAR Mill gons, amongst other kits.
Thanks,
Rich C


Re: Eastern Car Works Status?

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Rich: Why do you need their AAR gon? I could understand the G26 to an extent
but not the AAR gon.
Best place is to find any of their kits is on the secondary market.
Brian Carlson
On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:41:56 -0000, rhcdmc wrote

Was wondering if they are going to get back in production again?

I am in need of their AAR Mill gons, amongst other kits.

Thanks,
Rich C


Eastern Car Works Status?

 

Was wondering if they are going to get back in production again?

I am in need of their AAR Mill gons, amongst other kits.

Thanks,
Rich C


Re: City of Vancouver image archive

rwitt_2000
 

Eric Hansmann wrote:

I there are more than 70 box car images here. I was just trolling
among the Railroad section and there are nearly 300 box car images. Some
were taken after the endpoint of our discussion list, but many were
taken in the 1940s and 1950s. Here's a short list of what I've seen.

Columbus & Greenville 3249 - A single-sheathed car with Dreadnaught
ends and a radial roof.
Duluth South Shore and Atlantic 15096 - A post-war, steel-sheathed car
with carbuilders ends (I think).
Illinois Central 44180 - A 50-foot, steel-sheathed, double-door car.
Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac 2538 - A USRA single-sheathed
car.
Lancaster and Chesterfield 915 - A 1932 ARA steel-sheathed car (?).
Great Northern 18007 - A post-war, steel-sheathed car.
Pere Marquette 71340 - A 50-foot, steel-sheathed, double-door car.
Illinois Northern 1412 - A very funky-looking, single sheathed, door
and a half car. Not certain if this is 40 or 50 foot.
St. Louis and San Fransisco 128489 - A steel rebuilt, USRA
double-sheathed car.
Akron, Canton and Youngstown 3645 - A 50-foot, steel-sheathed,
single-door car.
Wellsville Addison and Galeton 6075 - 1923 ARA XM-1, single-sheathed
car.
Georgia Railway 39436 - A steel rebuild of a 1923 ARA XM-1,
single-sheathed car.
Duluth Missabe and Iron Range 3243 - Double-sheathed car with steel
fishbelly centersill. This one looks like a pre-WWI car.
Reading 18804 - Steel rebuild with double-doors.
Manufacturers Railway 7536 - Mather single-sheathed car.
Maine Central 5654 - 1923 ARA XM-2 steel car.
Chicago & Illinois Midland 8396 - Mather single-sheathed car.
Des Moines & Central Iowa 2168 - A single-sheathed, 50-foot, double
door car. Sheathing may be steel.
Clinchfield #8291 - A USRA single-sheathed car with CC&O reporting
marks.
Mystic Terminal 70110 - A USRA double-sheathed car, with AB brake
system.

The search page is here:
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/archives/webpubhtml/qbes/ws_photocombined.h\;
tm

Enter railroad into the keyword and hit the search button to troll
through over 2500 images. Using the subject search box and entering
Railroads - Cars or Railroads - Freight will net more images.

Most of the box car images I viewed are credited to Walter Edwin
Frost. Is anyone here familiar with this photographer?

The copyright status is noted as public domain for many of the Frost
images.




There is also a photo with a date of Feb. 1, 1956 of a New York Central
Boxcar #17496 painted and lettered for "Pacemaker Freight Service" with
high speed trucks obviously in interchange service, but still without
dimensional lettering.

Bob Witt

P.S. Use the car number in the subject search to find it quickly.


Re: Early CNW Airslides & Athearn model

Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

I recall Oddballs had one or more sets for CNW Airslides, but don't recall the specific scheme(s) offered.
 
CJM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Specifications of Standard Containers & Loading Rules 1944 and other resources

Bill Welch
 

A good friend loaned me his copy of the above as a resource for the FGE/WFE/BRE book I am working on. I have almost finished scanning its 160+ pages. Some of it I will certainly use in some fashion directly in the book but my current plan is to have a DVD with the book that will have relevant documents like this on it so people can immerse themselves in excrusciating details until their hearts are content. In essence this DVD will be a mini Reference Library on the subject of shipping fresh produce published by the AAR, ARA, USDA, etc.

Regarding the above document, it is designated for the far west tariff area, Region 4. I am interested to know if anyone in this group has issues of this publication from different years or Regions 1,2, or 3? I do not think there would much variation from region to region but I would like to verify and document this either way. I am sure over time some of the standards for containers did change and the rules probably did too, and these would be good to document. If so would you be willing to loan your copies to me to scanned to be used as I have described above? I would of course pay postage/insurance to and from me.

You can find me offline at fgexbill@... and 727.470.9930

Thanks!

Bill Welch


Re: City of Vancouver image archive

Robert kirkham
 

A couple of comments:

While many have not seen this collection before, it has been the subject of e-mail discussion in the past. I'm glad that it has been re-introduced for those who hadn't seen it.

Having looked through the collection of prints and negatives in the archives, I infer that Mr. Frost worked locally around the Vancouver area for a few decades starting in the mid 1930's.

While his earlier photos may technically be public domain, you won't get decent quality prints from the web page and so you'll be stuck paying the City of Vancouver's fees for use. They start around $20.00 for a 8x 10 glossy print (or a CD image) and go up if you want to publish. Further, I believe his gift of them to the City was on pretty strict terms about giving proper credit and other limitations on the use of the photos. All something to discuss with an archivist if your need is to do more than just get a copy.

Rob Kirkham
Surrey,
B.C.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "wvrail" <eric@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 AM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] City of Vancouver image archive

I there are more than 70 box car images here. I was just trolling among the Railroad section and there are nearly 300 box car images. Some were taken after the endpoint of our discussion list, but many were taken in the 1940s and 1950s. Here's a short list of what I've seen.

Columbus & Greenville 3249 - A single-sheathed car with Dreadnaught ends and a radial roof.
Duluth South Shore and Atlantic 15096 - A post-war, steel-sheathed car with carbuilders ends (I think).
Illinois Central 44180 - A 50-foot, steel-sheathed, double-door car.
Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac 2538 - A USRA single-sheathed car.
Lancaster and Chesterfield 915 - A 1932 ARA steel-sheathed car (?).
Great Northern 18007 - A post-war, steel-sheathed car.
Pere Marquette 71340 - A 50-foot, steel-sheathed, double-door car.
Illinois Northern 1412 - A very funky-looking, single sheathed, door and a half car. Not certain if this is 40 or 50 foot.
St. Louis and San Fransisco 128489 - A steel rebuilt, USRA double-sheathed car.
Akron, Canton and Youngstown 3645 - A 50-foot, steel-sheathed, single-door car.
Wellsville Addison and Galeton 6075 - 1923 ARA XM-1, single-sheathed car.
Georgia Railway 39436 - A steel rebuild of a 1923 ARA XM-1, single-sheathed car.
Duluth Missabe and Iron Range 3243 - Double-sheathed car with steel fishbelly centersill. This one looks like a pre-WWI car.
Reading 18804 - Steel rebuild with double-doors.
Manufacturers Railway 7536 - Mather single-sheathed car.
Maine Central 5654 - 1923 ARA XM-2 steel car.
Chicago & Illinois Midland 8396 - Mather single-sheathed car.
Des Moines & Central Iowa 2168 - A single-sheathed, 50-foot, double door car. Sheathing may be steel.
Clinchfield #8291 - A USRA single-sheathed car with CC&O reporting marks.
Mystic Terminal 70110 - A USRA double-sheathed car, with AB brake system.

The search page is here:
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/archives/webpubhtml/qbes/ws_photocombined.htm

Enter railroad into the keyword and hit the search button to troll through over 2500 images. Using the subject search box and entering Railroads - Cars or Railroads - Freight will net more images.

Most of the box car images I viewed are credited to Walter Edwin Frost. Is anyone here familiar with this photographer?

The copyright status is noted as public domain for many of the Frost images.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Starting over in a new house:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Looking for David Thompsons e-mail address

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

My e-mail address for James David Thompson is very old "James D Thompson" <jaydeet@...>. Last contact with him was when he was or is living in Port Hayward, Virginia. Can someone provide me with his current e-mail address or P.O. mailing address offline?

Thanks,

Al Kresse

112541 - 112560 of 197043