Date   

Re: Accurail 6-Panel Wood Boxcar models

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Thanks, Ray,
Some good suggestions for me. Both Illinois Central and Milwaukee box cars would fit my neck of the modeling woods quite well.

Gene Green
moving to the badlands of New Mexico


Re: Conductors Train Book, Ferguson, May-June, 1938

Allen Rueter
 

google cursive letters, it comes in handy.

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________
From: Dave Nelson <Lake_Muskoka@att.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:56:07 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Conductors Train Book, Ferguson, May-June, 1938

Some comments and suggestions Larry:

Don't try and do it all yourself; If you can scan (or just xerox) some
books and make those copies available to volunteers you'll get much further
along. Just ask for volunteers and see! Ditto for anything you can't make
out.

I strongly recommend you stick a few extra fields on each line bearing a car
number:
* some sort of train id; Elsewhere that train Id can be have it's own line
w/ date, time, engine(s),start & end locations.
* a column w/ an incrementing integer for the car order (first car is 1).
* Put mark and car number into their own columns. Mark means what's on the
car, not the railroad (e.g., if it says OSL, put that down, not UP).

Having done that you will be able to sort the data in any way and then
return it to the original ordering.

As for poorly understood marks... Both Tim Gilbert and I had those problems
w/ our own books. I found the best thing to do was not to guess the first
time or two thru the listings. Later, when you've done several hundred
lines you can go back, find the spaces, look up the lines and see if there
is any pattern. It will also help to have an ORER from the same year so you
can see if the car number falls into a reported series. Also, remember than
grade school penmanship was far more strict back then. People wrote capital
letters in script, not block, making a capital "Q" look like "2", capital
"I" look like "J", and capital "G" like "&". So when it doubt, leave it
blank.

Good luck!

Dave Nelson


Re: Freight Conductors' Train Book, 1938 (summary of car contents)

Allen Rueter
 

My $.02 from doing 150+ wheel reports, but not steam era.

Cats - Cantaloupes
Co MR Company Material, tho I'm used to seeing CoM or Mtl (spikes,ties,ballast,rail...) Company Material Rail
Pr Coal - could be some kind of grade of coal, (lump, mine run, screened, washed,nut, rice,...)
Bullion (soup)

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


Re: Conductors Train Book, Ferguson, May-June, 1938

Allen Rueter
 

google cursive letters, it comes in handy.

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________
From: Dave Nelson <Lake_Muskoka@att.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:56:07 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Conductors Train Book, Ferguson, May-June, 1938

Some comments and suggestions Larry:

Don't try and do it all yourself; If you can scan (or just xerox) some
books and make those copies available to volunteers you'll get much further
along. Just ask for volunteers and see! Ditto for anything you can't make
out.

I strongly recommend you stick a few extra fields on each line bearing a car
number:
* some sort of train id; Elsewhere that train Id can be have it's own line
w/ date, time, engine(s),start & end locations.
* a column w/ an incrementing integer for the car order (first car is 1).
* Put mark and car number into their own columns. Mark means what's on the
car, not the railroad (e.g., if it says OSL, put that down, not UP).

Having done that you will be able to sort the data in any way and then
return it to the original ordering.

As for poorly understood marks... Both Tim Gilbert and I had those problems
w/ our own books. I found the best thing to do was not to guess the first
time or two thru the listings. Later, when you've done several hundred
lines you can go back, find the spaces, look up the lines and see if there
is any pattern. It will also help to have an ORER from the same year so you
can see if the car number falls into a reported series. Also, remember than
grade school penmanship was far more strict back then. People wrote capital
letters in script, not block, making a capital "Q" look like "2", capital
"I" look like "J", and capital "G" like "&". So when it doubt, leave it
blank.

Good luck!

Dave Nelson


Re: Accurail 6-Panel Wood Boxcar models

Ray Breyer
 

What is the prototype for any of
these Accurail cars?
7000 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar with Wood Doors & Wood
Ends 
7100 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar with Steel Doors &
Dreadnaught Ends   
7200 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar Wood Doors &
Dreadnaught Ends
Any prototype for the deep center sill/single-sheathed
combination?
Gene Green

Hi Gene,

WITH the fishbelly underframe, the Accurail cars really only resemble various thousands of IC single sheathed cars built through the 1920s. Of course, most of these cars only BARELY resemble the Accurail models, as the IC cars came in a wide assortment of door sizes, end types and rib spacings.

The 7200 series models most closely resemble the IC's 16000-16975 series, 953 cars in 1950. These cars were originally built in 1927 with wood doors and ends (Accurail 7000 series) as the 176000-176999 series; they were rebuilt with Youngstown doors & 3/3/3 Dreadnaught ends just before WWII (1940-1941) and renumbered then.

Breezing through my single sheathed boxcar photos I could only come up with one other car that matches the Accurail model's specifications (including the angle of the diagonals): Soo 75732. The panel spacing is odd and doesn't match the Accurail model. My Soo Line freight car data is sketchy at best, so you'll have to ask someone else about the car series, vital statistics, etc.

WithOUT the fishbelly underframe (which is crazy easy to replace; just add 2x12 material to the channel that accepts the fishbelly parts) the models work well as decent stand-ins for tens of thousands of other cars, especially the bulk of the Milwaukee's SS box fleet. You'll either have to ignore the lack of a lumber door in the A end or cobble one up, but if you need a fleet of them the models are a Godsend.

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Ray Breyer


Re: Pennsy F31 container cars vs B&M "Freightainers"

riverman_vt <riverman_vt@...>
 

70 yearsa ago it may have been on the Pennsy, Richard, but the little Boston & Maine was doing the same thing in the late 1920's, or
eighty years ago, with its "Freightainers". These, too, were small truck-body like containers that were handled by both rail and truck.
Some good info ont he operation appeared in Railway Age of the era.

Cordially, Don Valentine

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cinderandeight@... wrote:

Gary,
I did extensive research into the PRR's container service in the early
1980's, ending in an article in The Keystone (Vol. 18 #1, Spring 1985 PP
7-50). In my research I came away with the impression that it was a pretty
self contained, on line service. It required cranes which often had
special hooking devices that could engage the container hooks automatically, but
of course any set of chains and hooks could be used if you wanted to have
men actually climb atop the containers.
I am not aware of the RF&P operations, but it was a "friendly road",
which the Pennsy partly owned, so it doesn't surprise me. The F31 container
cars were very rare. Only 25 were built, and many of them were in use on
a truck body service in the Delmarva area, rather than the regular
container service. Most PRR containers were moved on a fleet of class FM flat cars
dating back to the 1910 era (and earlier), which were retrofitted with
container guides in the early 1930's.
As for that "truck body service", it foreshadowed today's container
service almost exactly over 70 years ago. Truck bodies, moved by rail, and
transferred to purpose built trucks for final delivery. Regulation, more
than anything killed the project.
Rich Burg


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: More about Freight Conductors' Train Book, 1938

SUVCWORR@...
 

Well Tony, sort of a combination.? I realized my error after I wrote it but sent it anyway to see the reaction and make the most of it.? You caught it too quick.? Since reefers were involved I expected to get a little more mileage out of it.?

Chalk the whole thing up to inhaling too many fumes from MEK while trying to assemble the bridge from hades.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:50 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] More about Freight Conductors' Train Book, 1938










Rich Orr wrote:
The discussion about bullion has centered on metals.? What about
bullion as a soup base -- liquid, powdered or more likely during our
time period cubes?? Vegetable based bullion would be a byproduct of
processed vegetable crops since most bullion is made by boiling
scraps in water then concentrating the result product.
Unless Rich has tongue violently thrust into cheek, he is
confusing "bullion" with "bouillon."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Safeway Foods reefers

goldrod_1 <goldrod_1@...>
 

Did Safeway Foods have a fleet of leased reefers? I have seen many cars on the market at different times over the years, but I do not remember ever seeing a real one before. Thanks for any help.

Michael Bishop


Re: Freight Conductors' Train Book, 1938 (summary of car contents)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:
The cathode "starter sheets" are rolled from pure copper but then they go in the big vat and accumulate pure copper as it is lost from the anodes. The whole process smells like one great big lead-acid battery.
Exactly. But my point was that cathode starter sheets are NOT a shipment category from smelters.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net


Re: CofG Covered Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Lee

Thanks for creating the web page. A minor typo on the main page, you list

<http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/other_cars/cg_cars/cg_number/001425-001474.htm>CofG 1424-1475 1958 ft3 PS (lot 8134) 10/1953
<http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/other_cars/cg_cars/cg_number/001475-001499.htm>CofG 1474-1499 2003 ft3 PS (lot 8318D) 8/1956

It should be 1424-1474 and 1475-1499

Tim
<http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/other_cars/cg_cars/index>

Ed, Jim and Tim,

Thanks for the assistance. I think I've covered all of the CofG's covered hoppers:

http://tinyurl.com/lhbhvu


Re: Accurail 6-Panel Wood Boxcar models

brianleppert@att.net
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Any prototype for the deep center sill/single-sheathed combination?

Gene Green
Both IC and Seaboard had single sheathed box cars with 3 panels to either side of the door and fishbelly center sills. The diagonal braces sloped the other way, however.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Tim O'Connor
 

Don't know about models, but since Dick Harley was one of the
presenters, at least one UP modeler was there.

I attended the WPM meet yesterday, and was impressed by the large
number of well built models of locomotives and freight cars on
display. I was struck by the TOTAL lack of any UP equipment (except
some "patched SP engines) on display. Are Santa Fe and Southern
Pacific modelers more social by nature than the Borg modelers?????
Naw. It's just that modelers have long memories, and plenty are
still boycotting UP. <g>

Tony Thompson


Re: Accurail 6-Panel Wood Boxcar models

StephanP <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

What is the prototype for any of these Accurail cars?

7000 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar with Wood Doors & Wood Ends
7100 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar with Steel Doors & Dreadnaught Ends
7200 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar Wood Doors & Dreadnaught Ends
Gene: I can't think of any cars that meet theses criteria. Fishbelly underframe boxcars are more of a flatcar with a box built on top. Steel truss single sheathed cars are supported more by the sides so the floors can be lighter. In the USRA cars the DS car was rated at 80,000 lbs and the SS 100,000 lbs. Don Spiro wrote an article in RMC in the '90s where he replaced the fishbelly parts of the Accurail underframe with 2x12 styrene. From the side it looks great. I tried that method and I have since reverted to making my own floors from styrene.

As for the body, Accurail seems to be practicing some frugality in that they have left the overall car height the same as the previous 8-panel cars. That makes them sort of USRA SS height. For my own part I would have preferred they follow the 1923 ARA standard for 6-panel cars. The cars would be comparable to an X-29. That would have opened up a whole galaxy of possible cars. Of course then you're talking a whole new car, with no recycled frames, doors and ends. I know from your previous remarks you prefer not to build resin kits but for others who might be interested there are the usual suspects, Westerfield and Sunshine but F&C offers several cars in that vein and a Canadian company, Kaslo shops, has a CNR SS box. On the steam freight cars webiste Bill Darnaby did a comparison review of the Kaslo and F&C versions of the cars.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


Accurail 6-Panel Wood Boxcar models

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

What is the prototype for any of these Accurail cars?

7000 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar with Wood Doors & Wood Ends
7100 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar with Steel Doors & Dreadnaught Ends
7200 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar Wood Doors & Dreadnaught Ends

In general it appears (to me, at least) that most single-sheathed box cars with steel truss framing did not have the deep center-sill of the Accurail models.

Any comments?

Any prototype for the deep center sill/single-sheathed combination?

And may I request that those so inclined please forego changing the spelling of "Accurail," making snide or insulting remarks, casting aspersions on the motives or business practices of others and so on. I am hoping for a little light here and not a lot of heat. Thank you.

Gene Green


Re: More about Freight Conductors' Train Book, 1938

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rich Orr wrote:
The discussion about bullion has centered on metals.? What about bullion as a soup base -- liquid, powdered or more likely during our time period cubes?? Vegetable based bullion would be a byproduct of processed vegetable crops since most bullion is made by boiling scraps in water then concentrating the result product.
Unless Rich has tongue violently thrust into cheek, he is confusing "bullion" with "bouillon."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight Conductors' Train Book, 1938 (summary of car contents)

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Tony,
The cathode "starter sheets" are rolled from pure copper but then they go in the big vat and accumulate pure copper as it is lost from the anodes. The whole process smells like one great big lead-acid battery.

You are right about blister copper. I have seen that occasionally but I forgot about it. Thanks for adding that. At this point I have strayed away from "bullion" and so will bow out.
Gene Green


Re: More about Freight Conductors' Train Book, 1938

SUVCWORR@...
 

The discussion about bullion has centered on metals.? What about bullion as a soup base -- liquid, powdered or more likely during our time period cubes?? Vegetable based bullion would be a byproduct of processed vegetable crops since most bullion is made by boiling scraps in water then concentrating the result product.







Rich Orr


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:
I attended the WPM meet yesterday, and was impressed by the large number of well built models of locomotives and freight cars on display. I was struck by the TOTAL lack of any UP equipment (except some "patched SP engines) on display. Are Santa Fe and Southern Pacific modelers more social by nature than the Borg modelers?????
Naw. It's just that modelers have long memories, and plenty are still boycotting UP. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight Conductors' Train Book, 1938 (summary of car contents)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:
Copper is important all across southern Arizona and New Mexico and here in El Paso. Copper is shipped as anodes (about 98% pure) or cathodes (about 99.999% pure). Never heard of copper called bullion, pigs or ingots.
Cathodes for electrolytic refinement are rolled from pure copper, and smelter-run or "blister" copper is NOT shipped as cathodes.

Visited an ASARCO lead smelter in Missouri and spent a couple of days there learning about their operation. Lead is shipped in bars that closely resemble what we normally think of as "gold bars." These bars weigh enough that a man lifts them one at a time. I don't recall the term bullion being used in reference to lead.
Purified lead pigs are indeed called "bullion" in some contexts, but I agree with previous opinions that this USUALLY refers to precious metals.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net


Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Andy Carlson
 

I attended the WPM meet yesterday, and was impressed by the large number of well built models of locomotives and freight cars on display. I was struck by the TOTAL lack of any UP equipment (except some "patched SP engines) on display. Are Santa Fe and Southern Pacific modelers more social by nature than the Borg modelers?????
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

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