Date   

Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

But were there any N&W Hoppers at WPM?

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Brock


Kinda odd...no UP models in the western meet, many in the Florida meet.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

OK I've been deleting these but I did go to the Blackstone Models site and there is no mention of a tank car either current or future. Information please?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Hmmm, donning my judges robes, there appears to be a few comments on the STMFC regarding the past blunderous, idiotic moves by UP regarding trade marks with respect to MRing, etc. As many are aware, I created a Yahoo group to discuss aspects of trade mark, copyright, licensing etc...the LICEN group. It is still available for discussion if anyone feels the need for such. In the meantime, the STMFC is not the place for such discussions.

Removing my judges robes...Aaaah, much cooler...I will add that I feel sad that there weren't significant UP modeling activities at the Western meet. If I had been there...and if I could have figured out how to transport models, that would not have been the case. For those that lament that UP models weren't there, fear not for Cocoa Beach...because they WILL be there.

Interesting. On the one hand, UP acts with seeming arrogance and stupidity. On the other hand, they are the only major RR that runs a steam program.

Kinda odd...no UP models in the western meet, many in the Florida meet.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I have (pending approval) uploaded builders photos (courtesy of UTLX) of both Class X and V UTLX tank cars of 6500 gallon nominal capacity. You may notice that the Class X car is actually older than the Class V. These are the size and types that were later used in the GRAMPS narrow gauge service. As of 1952, there were a total of 59 still listed in the UTLX listing of tank cars. 25 were the frameless Van Dyke (Class V) cars. The other 34 were Class X cars with the solid underframe. At that time, they were numbered between 88000 and 88177, so it is certainly reasonable that there had been more narrow gauge cars earlier.

Comparing the original Class X cars with the single beam center sill underframe with the surviving cars at Chama or other places, it is clear that some sort of cradle type frame was built for these cars for narrow gauge service, but I am not at all familiar with that service.
I would be very happy to see an HO version of the Class X underframe, but I can't imagine Blackstone wanting to do it.

I don't recall seeing any in-service photos of Class X or Class V cars with Andrews trucks, but there certainly were some that were converted to cast steel "Bettendorf" style trucks as well as AB brakes. There is a Class V car at the National Museum of Transport in St, Louis on archbar trucks and there is a Class X car at Mid Continent in North Freedom, Wisconsin, also on archbar trucks.

I hope this is helpful.

Steve Hile

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars


Rob Kirkham wrote:
> I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it
> up: I just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that
> Blackstone Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow
> guage. These were converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I
> think Blackstone is doing both frameless and framed versions. While
> narrow guage models would be only partially useful to us (the tanks
> - and you can build your own or use Precision Scale models), I just
> sent them a polite enquiry suggesting they either bring out the same
> model on proper standard guage frames, or work with a resin
> manufacturer to do a standard guage frame or frames.

Rob, it's well known that the frameless cars only had trucks
changed for narrow-gauge use. I don't know for sure but would doubt
that Rio Grande built new frames for the underframed cars either, but
someone more knowledgeable than me will have to answer for sure.
Richard Hendrickson is out of the country so don't be holding your
breath for him to chime in.
We just need to apply the right trucks. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: CofG Covered Hoppers

Lee Gautreaux
 

Tim,

Fixed. Thanks for the heads up. That's funny, I hardly ever make tpyos.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/


Lee

Thanks for creating the web page. A minor typo on the main page, you list


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jack Burgess
 

Eric wrote:

Did these tank cars start service with arch bar trucks?
The cars were built around 1912 and yes, they started out with arch bar
trucks. There are photos of the bolster/truck assemblies in Steam Era
Freight Cars Reference Manual Vol 2 (Tank cars) which show the original arch
bar trucks.

When were the trucks upgraded? And to what? Andrews first, then
an AAR cast sideframe version?
Richard may know. Photos of these cars in service seem to be limited since
you tend to see the same photos over and over....

Did these cars always have trucks with a five-foot wheelbase?
That would make sense...although I could be completely wrong, the photos of
the bolsters/trucks appear to show a 5' wheelbase arch bar truck.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Robert kirkham
 

None of the photos I have access that show something other than arch bar trucks are in-service shots. Sorry, can't help with any suggestions.

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Eric" <eric@hansmanns.org>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:57 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars
Did these tank cars start service with arch bar trucks?

When were the trucks upgraded? And to what? Andrews first, then an AAR cast sideframe version?

Did these cars always have trucks with a five-foot wheelbase?

There are several pre-Depression era modelers who would enjoy an easy conversion to add a distinctive tank car to the fleet.

Eric



Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio


MEC 50 ft boxcar in RMJ June 1990 series 9100-9349

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

In Ed Hawkins' article in June 1990 RMJ on 50 ft AAR Boxcars there is a
small photo of a MEC Central car 9300. The photo is too small for me to tell
what trucks (A3 Ride Control maybe) brake wheel and running board were
installed on the car. Does anyone have a larger view or better exposed of
the photo that shows the trucks, brake wheel, and running board were
installed on the car? Thanks.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


New 50' NP Steel Reefers from Sunshine

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

Sunshine is offering a new NP 50' steel reefer at Naperville. Does anyone
know more information on what series of car it represents? There was not a
PDS for this car in the mailing I got this year. I'm trying to set a budget
this year.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Eric Hansmann
 

--- Anthony Thompson wrote:

Rob, it's well known that the frameless cars only had trucks
changed for narrow-gauge use. I don't know for sure but would doubt
that Rio Grande built new frames for the underframed cars either, but
someone more knowledgeable than me will have to answer for sure.
Richard Hendrickson is out of the country so don't be holding your
breath for him to chime in.
We just need to apply the right trucks. <g>
==========================


Did these tank cars start service with arch bar trucks?

When were the trucks upgraded? And to what? Andrews first, then an AAR cast sideframe version?

Did these cars always have trucks with a five-foot wheelbase?

There are several pre-Depression era modelers who would enjoy an easy conversion to add a distinctive tank car to the fleet.

Eric



Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

I guess Tim means that UP took over SP and lots of other roads -- but the resentment being discussed comes from their efforts to make money on their copyrights (and to claim copyrights they turned out not to own). in the law cases they were involved in regarding their claimed copyrights, they got their head handed to them.
----- Original Message -----

Can you cite a case or so I can look them up?

KL


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow guage. These were converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing both frameless and framed versions. While narrow guage models would be only partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry suggesting they either bring out the same model on proper standard guage frames, or work with a resin manufacturer to do a standard guage frame or frames.
Rob, it's well known that the frameless cars only had trucks changed for narrow-gauge use. I don't know for sure but would doubt that Rio Grande built new frames for the underframed cars either, but someone more knowledgeable than me will have to answer for sure. Richard Hendrickson is out of the country so don't be holding your breath for him to chime in.
We just need to apply the right trucks. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Robert kirkham
 

Hmm - I didn't realise it was just the trucks that changed! That makes these even more viable for standard guage - trucks remaining an issue. I wonder if their (Blackstone's) trucks can be converted by replacing the bolster.... between the frames? They look fairly nice on the web - but I have not seen one out of the box. <http://www.blackstonemodels.com/access/>

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jack Burgess" <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:18 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Rob wrote:

I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I
just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone
Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow gauge.
These were
converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing
both frameless and framed versions. While narrow gauge models
would be only
partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use
Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry
suggesting they
either bring out the same model on proper standard gauge frames, or work
with a resin manufacturer to do a standard gauge frame or frames.

It would be neat to have this car available in standard gauge HO!

Rob Kirkham
As has been mentioned before one this list, the D&RGW Gramps frameless UTLX
tanks cars were built as standard gauge cars and the D&RGW only changed out
the trucks to convert them. So, these "narrow gauge" cars could easily be
reconverted to standard gauge. However, the challenge is that the cars
should have 5' wheelbase cast "Bettendorf-type" trucks which are difficult
to find. Richard Hendrickson described one approach to this problem in his
article on using the Precision Scale kits in an article in RMC many years
ago...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jack Burgess
 

Rob wrote:

I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I
just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone
Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow gauge.
These were
converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing
both frameless and framed versions. While narrow gauge models
would be only
partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use
Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry
suggesting they
either bring out the same model on proper standard gauge frames, or work
with a resin manufacturer to do a standard gauge frame or frames.

It would be neat to have this car available in standard gauge HO!

Rob Kirkham
As has been mentioned before one this list, the D&RGW Gramps frameless UTLX
tanks cars were built as standard gauge cars and the D&RGW only changed out
the trucks to convert them. So, these "narrow gauge" cars could easily be
reconverted to standard gauge. However, the challenge is that the cars
should have 5' wheelbase cast "Bettendorf-type" trucks which are difficult
to find. Richard Hendrickson described one approach to this problem in his
article on using the Precision Scale kits in an article in RMC many years
ago...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

ken_olson54022 <kwolson@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Dick Harley <dick.harley4up@...> wrote:

Tony Thompson wrote:

>>
I guess Tim means that UP took over SP and lots of other roads -- but
the resentment being discussed comes from their efforts to make money
on their copyrights (and to claim copyrights they turned out not to
own).
<<

Actually, being on the UP side of the street, I see modeler
resentment from both factors at work. Certainly, the licensing
program made animosity toward the UP much worse, but it is not the
only reason. As I said, life goes on. Some people harbor bad
feelings and some don't. We're not likely to change that here.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
What I find sort of ironic is that it was the owner of Mike's Train House (MTH) who took on the U.P. and spent HIS time and money getting things resolved. Yet if I can believe the comments that I've read on the web about his HO scale products it's just about the only thing that he's ever done right.....

Ken Olson


Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Robert kirkham
 

I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow guage. These were converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing both frameless and framed versions. While narrow guage models would be only partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry suggesting they either bring out the same model on proper standard guage frames, or work with a resin manufacturer to do a standard guage frame or frames.

It would be neat to have this car available in standard guage HO!

Rob Kirkham


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Dick Harley
 

Tony Thompson wrote:

>>
I guess Tim means that UP took over SP and lots of other roads -- but
the resentment being discussed comes from their efforts to make money
on their copyrights (and to claim copyrights they turned out not to
own).
<<

Actually, being on the UP side of the street, I see modeler
resentment from both factors at work. Certainly, the licensing
program made animosity toward the UP much worse, but it is not the
only reason. As I said, life goes on. Some people harbor bad
feelings and some don't. We're not likely to change that here.

Cheers,
Dick Harley


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Americans hate a winner :-)
I guess Tim means that UP took over SP and lots of other roads -- but the resentment being discussed comes from their efforts to make money on their copyrights (and to claim copyrights they turned out not to own). in the law cases they were involved in regarding their claimed copyrights, they got their head handed to them.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Tim O'Connor
 

Americans hate a winner :-) Secretly I model UP trains, but they're all
before 1966... Long before the Borg took over.

It was often said at the time of UP's misguided and ill-fated
effort to make money from models of UP equipment that they were going
to reap a tidal wave of resentment and even anger from modelers. At
the time, I doubted if that would be true, but in fact I think it did
happen, and remains true in many quarters. And hey, it only cost 'em
around $4 million in legal fees to be straightened out.

Tony Thompson


Re: Warped parts

Bruce Smith
 

On Sep 21, 2009, at 1:36 PM, richtownsend@netscape.net wrote:


Last night I got out a PFE?R-30-18 kit that I bought?a few?years ago.? It is the plastic injection molded flat kit by Pacific Freight Enterprises.? While it has been stored in what amounts to a basement with no temperature extremes and no windows to let in heat from sunshine, and no other source of heat, the two sides and the floor are warped.? They weren't warped when the kit arrived those few years ago.? Any suggestions on how to fix the problem?



I also recently got mildly ripped off in a eBay purchase of an Intermountain PFE express reefer kit that turned out to?have a badly warped roof and a body with sides bowing out (bowing in is what I usually see and those are easy to deal with).? I may replace the roof if I can't get the warp out.? I'm open to suggestions on these problems, too.?



Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
Richard,

If these were resin parts, the bowing would be pretty easy to correct. Either heat them to 150 degrees for a few minutes on a flat surface (make sure to check the oven temp with a REAL thermometer) or boil some water, turn it off and dip the part in the water and then lay it out on a flat surface to cool. This may also work with styrene, but you should test to make sure that the heat will not be too much (I doubt it will as styrene is usually more heat resistant than resin). You may also need to increase the time span to get the effect with styrene.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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