Date   

Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Rob, it's well known that the frameless cars only had trucks
changed for narrow-gauge use. I don't know for sure but would doubt
that Rio Grande built new frames for the underframed cars either, but
someone more knowledgeable than me will have to answer for sure.
The class X cars that UTL converted for narrow gauge use did indeed have new frames fabricated. Apparently, the standard center sill with its 20 1/2" wide cover plate didn't allow adequate truck swing of 3' gauge wheel sets with their appx. 32" back-to-back dimension, so new frames were fabricated with the sills outside the truck side frames. The new frames may have made use of the original center sills with new cross members; I'm not enough of a narrow gauge fan to have ever paid attention.

I see that Steve Hile's builders photos have been approved. View them at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/458504697/pic/list

Thanks Steve. I also dug out something for Rob; a 6000 gal. UTLX class X car in Canadian service, preserved at the Canadian Railway Historical Society museum in Delson, P.Q. Interestingly, this car still has archbar trucks, although it has been equipped with AB brake. I tried to add my photos to the same album as Steve's, but couldn't for some reason, so they are here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/2142098359/pic/list

Please note that the outlet has a Fire Department Siamese connection installed by the museum. I'm also not entirely sure the lettering is 100% accurate; museum lettering jobs are always suspect.

Also the photo of the tank car frame and lap seams I posted the other week here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/2015799527/pic/list

Is of the 8000 gal. class X car at the Mid-Continent museum.

Dr. Hendrickson has in the past stated that the brake equipment on the clas V cars converted to narrow gauge was modified, but I don't know exactly what modifications were made. I also wonder if the side bearing extensions of the cast end frame-bolster-tank saddle needed modification to clear the narrower spacing of the narrow gauge truck side frames. Some place I have close-up photos of these parts on an 8000 gal car that was never converted (all the NG conversions were 6000 gal cars) but I can't seem to lay my hands on them at the moment. If I find them I'll add them to one of the albums.

Dennis


Re: Sunshine ART ktis still available?

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Jerry,
Go to http://www.sunshinekits.com/index.html
and all your questions will be answered.
Pierre Oliver

- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, asychis@... wrote:


Hi, I was wondering if any list members have a recent Sunshine list and
know if kits 46.10-46.12 are still available? Price? I could write Sunshine,
but that will take three months or more for an answer.

Thanks,

Jerry Michels


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

GUYZ,
 
           peach creek models makes several 5' wheelbase trucks if that helps.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com> wrote:


From: Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 6:18 PM


 



Rob wrote:

I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I
just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone
Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow gauge.
These were
converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing
both frameless and framed versions. While narrow gauge models
would be only
partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use
Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry
suggesting they
either bring out the same model on proper standard gauge frames, or work
with a resin manufacturer to do a standard gauge frame or frames.

It would be neat to have this car available in standard gauge HO!

Rob Kirkham
As has been mentioned before one this list, the D&RGW Gramps frameless UTLX
tanks cars were built as standard gauge cars and the D&RGW only changed out
the trucks to convert them. So, these "narrow gauge" cars could easily be
reconverted to standard gauge. However, the challenge is that the cars
should have 5' wheelbase cast "Bettendorf- type" trucks which are difficult
to find. Richard Hendrickson described one approach to this problem in his
article on using the Precision Scale kits in an article in RMC many years
ago...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyr r.com


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

cn528 <jscagle@...>
 

Good Morning Gang:

I just returned from the Narrow Gauge Convention where Blackstone Models were exhibiting and there was no mention, nor any info on an upcoming UTLX Tank car. That is not to say they aren't working on one, but i have a feeling they keep things very quiet. If you consider what they are doing I would expect them to do the UTLX tanks, it's just a matter of time.

In the meantime, if you want a 6050 gallon tank car, you can acquire a Standard Tank Car version of one from SC&F, ( me ). See how i just smoothly put that shameless plug in there!! I will upload a pic in the next day or so.

jon

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I
just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone
Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow guage. These were
converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing
both frameless and framed versions. While narrow guage models would be only
partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use
Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry suggesting they
either bring out the same model on proper standard guage frames, or work
with a resin manufacturer to do a standard guage frame or frames.

It would be neat to have this car available in standard guage HO!

Rob Kirkham


Sunshine ART ktis still available?

asychis@...
 

Hi, I was wondering if any list members have a recent Sunshine list and
know if kits 46.10-46.12 are still available? Price? I could write Sunshine,
but that will take three months or more for an answer.

Thanks,

Jerry Michels


Re: Safeway Foods reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Michael

I know what you mean, I had an Athearn Safeway 50' reefer as a teenager.
But I've never seen a photo of such a car and I can't find any published
references or emails ever discussing them.

Tim

Did Safeway Foods have a fleet of leased reefers? I have seen many cars on the market at different times over the years, but I do not remember ever seeing a real one before. Thanks for any help.

Michael Bishop


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Tim O'Connor
 

Kurt, I got the long version from someone involved (and who
contemplated putting up $100,000 in legal fees as a -small-
part of the legal action against UP) but I don't recall this
ever going to trial, so you would not find the case. Basically
MTH retained some very heavy hitter lawyers and UP backed down
and modified its licensing -- I don't think they ever admitted
they don't own any of the trademarks. I have noticed products
that claim CSXT as well as UP licenses so UP is not the only
company to require licenses; MTH basically got them to drop
the license fees for model trains. (Books and videos, I dunno.)

Tim O'Connor

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Can you cite a case or so I can look them up?
Kurt, this isn't the list for such a topic, though editorials
in places like TRAINS magazine did present the outcomes. I'd guess the
on-line RR magazine index would be a place you can find those pieces.
It was also discussed at length on Mike Brock's LICEN (licensing)
Yahoo forum, which you could join to search those archives.

Tony Thompson


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Robert kirkham
 

Not at all sure what your point is Jon. The original e-mail I sent said: "... I just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone Models is apparently doing ...". All three of the links I sent earlier mention it, with more or less detail. Further, one of the links I sent to you is from Soundtraxxs blog - and since (from what I read on the web - another caveat) they are the owners of Blackstone, it leads one to give a degree of credibility to the announcement.

Beyond that, like every other product announcement its wait and see....

Rob

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jon Miller" <atsf@inow.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:54 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

OK even with links to Blackstone site, no information. One of the links
said they are doing it.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

OK even with links to Blackstone site, no information. One of the links said they are doing it.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hi Group,

Heading for the clink here... Judge, have mercy...

It seems to me that the UP is the only major railroad to not 100%
dieselized.

If I remember correctly, the 844 (or 8444) was never stricken from the
roster. This, from a Santa Fe fan, is an amazing fact as the ATSF
wrote off steam locomotion in 1959. Yes, I know that the last fires
were dropped in 1958, but it was not until 1959 that the great
scrapping of the best locomotives known to the US were sent to scrap.

And one has to admire a railroad that believes that steam era freight
cars should be coupled to a high stepping 4-8-4.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Sep 21, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Hmmm, donning my judges robes, there appears to be a few comments on
the
STMFC regarding the past blunderous, idiotic moves by UP regarding
trade
marks with respect to MRing, etc. As many are aware, I created a
Yahoo group
to discuss aspects of trade mark, copyright, licensing etc...the LICEN
group. It is still available for discussion if anyone feels the need
for
such. In the meantime, the STMFC is not the place for such
discussions.

Removing my judges robes...Aaaah, much cooler...I will add that I
feel sad
that there weren't significant UP modeling activities at the Western
meet.
If I had been there...and if I could have figured out how to transport
models, that would not have been the case. For those that lament
that UP
models weren't there, fear not for Cocoa Beach...because they WILL
be there.

Interesting. On the one hand, UP acts with seeming arrogance and
stupidity.
On the other hand, they are the only major RR that runs a steam
program.

Kinda odd...no UP models in the western meet, many in the Florida
meet.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner



Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Well, thanks anyway, but I'm not going to join another Yahoo group just to learn the second part of Union Pacific vs. _________.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

Kurt, this isn't the list for such a topic, though editorials
in places like TRAINS magazine did present the outcomes. I'd guess the
on-line RR magazine index would be a place you can find those pieces.
It was also discussed at length on Mike Brock's LICEN (licensing)
Yahoo forum, which you could join to search those archives.


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Can you cite a case or so I can look them up?
Kurt, this isn't the list for such a topic, though editorials in places like TRAINS magazine did present the outcomes. I'd guess the on-line RR magazine index would be a place you can find those pieces. It was also discussed at length on Mike Brock's LICEN (licensing) Yahoo forum, which you could join to search those archives.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Robert kirkham
 

Have a look at these for starters,

Rob Kirkham
<http://www.central-hobbies.com/products/new.html>
<http://soundtraxx-soundbytes.blogspot.com/2009/08/soundbytes-viii-this-past-month-has.html>
<http://www.railcar.com.au/blackstone%20models.htm>

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jon Miller" <atsf@inow.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:34 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

OK I've been deleting these but I did go to the Blackstone Models site
and there is no mention of a tank car either current or future. Information
please?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

But were there any N&W Hoppers at WPM?

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Brock


Kinda odd...no UP models in the western meet, many in the Florida meet.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

OK I've been deleting these but I did go to the Blackstone Models site and there is no mention of a tank car either current or future. Information please?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Hmmm, donning my judges robes, there appears to be a few comments on the STMFC regarding the past blunderous, idiotic moves by UP regarding trade marks with respect to MRing, etc. As many are aware, I created a Yahoo group to discuss aspects of trade mark, copyright, licensing etc...the LICEN group. It is still available for discussion if anyone feels the need for such. In the meantime, the STMFC is not the place for such discussions.

Removing my judges robes...Aaaah, much cooler...I will add that I feel sad that there weren't significant UP modeling activities at the Western meet. If I had been there...and if I could have figured out how to transport models, that would not have been the case. For those that lament that UP models weren't there, fear not for Cocoa Beach...because they WILL be there.

Interesting. On the one hand, UP acts with seeming arrogance and stupidity. On the other hand, they are the only major RR that runs a steam program.

Kinda odd...no UP models in the western meet, many in the Florida meet.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I have (pending approval) uploaded builders photos (courtesy of UTLX) of both Class X and V UTLX tank cars of 6500 gallon nominal capacity. You may notice that the Class X car is actually older than the Class V. These are the size and types that were later used in the GRAMPS narrow gauge service. As of 1952, there were a total of 59 still listed in the UTLX listing of tank cars. 25 were the frameless Van Dyke (Class V) cars. The other 34 were Class X cars with the solid underframe. At that time, they were numbered between 88000 and 88177, so it is certainly reasonable that there had been more narrow gauge cars earlier.

Comparing the original Class X cars with the single beam center sill underframe with the surviving cars at Chama or other places, it is clear that some sort of cradle type frame was built for these cars for narrow gauge service, but I am not at all familiar with that service.
I would be very happy to see an HO version of the Class X underframe, but I can't imagine Blackstone wanting to do it.

I don't recall seeing any in-service photos of Class X or Class V cars with Andrews trucks, but there certainly were some that were converted to cast steel "Bettendorf" style trucks as well as AB brakes. There is a Class V car at the National Museum of Transport in St, Louis on archbar trucks and there is a Class X car at Mid Continent in North Freedom, Wisconsin, also on archbar trucks.

I hope this is helpful.

Steve Hile

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars


Rob Kirkham wrote:
> I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it
> up: I just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that
> Blackstone Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow
> guage. These were converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I
> think Blackstone is doing both frameless and framed versions. While
> narrow guage models would be only partially useful to us (the tanks
> - and you can build your own or use Precision Scale models), I just
> sent them a polite enquiry suggesting they either bring out the same
> model on proper standard guage frames, or work with a resin
> manufacturer to do a standard guage frame or frames.

Rob, it's well known that the frameless cars only had trucks
changed for narrow-gauge use. I don't know for sure but would doubt
that Rio Grande built new frames for the underframed cars either, but
someone more knowledgeable than me will have to answer for sure.
Richard Hendrickson is out of the country so don't be holding your
breath for him to chime in.
We just need to apply the right trucks. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: CofG Covered Hoppers

Lee Gautreaux
 

Tim,

Fixed. Thanks for the heads up. That's funny, I hardly ever make tpyos.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/


Lee

Thanks for creating the web page. A minor typo on the main page, you list


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jack Burgess
 

Eric wrote:

Did these tank cars start service with arch bar trucks?
The cars were built around 1912 and yes, they started out with arch bar
trucks. There are photos of the bolster/truck assemblies in Steam Era
Freight Cars Reference Manual Vol 2 (Tank cars) which show the original arch
bar trucks.

When were the trucks upgraded? And to what? Andrews first, then
an AAR cast sideframe version?
Richard may know. Photos of these cars in service seem to be limited since
you tend to see the same photos over and over....

Did these cars always have trucks with a five-foot wheelbase?
That would make sense...although I could be completely wrong, the photos of
the bolsters/trucks appear to show a 5' wheelbase arch bar truck.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Robert kirkham
 

None of the photos I have access that show something other than arch bar trucks are in-service shots. Sorry, can't help with any suggestions.

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Eric" <eric@hansmanns.org>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:57 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars
Did these tank cars start service with arch bar trucks?

When were the trucks upgraded? And to what? Andrews first, then an AAR cast sideframe version?

Did these cars always have trucks with a five-foot wheelbase?

There are several pre-Depression era modelers who would enjoy an easy conversion to add a distinctive tank car to the fleet.

Eric



Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio

99341 - 99360 of 184217