Date   

Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Dick Harley
 

On Tue Sep 22, 2009 Rob McLear asked about PFE reefer colors between 1947 and 1949, and whether there were black ends and roofs.

First a question: Rob, where did you read that?

I've spent well over two months during the past year reading PFE lettering drawings and looking at photographs to prepare a database for PFE paint & lettering schemes from 1925 to 1980. I know of Black metal roofs in the 1920s, but the ends were Metallic (freight car red). I know of Black ends during the 1960s and early 1970s, but the roofs were Light Gray, Aluminum or White. At no time between 1925 and 1980 am I aware of black roof AND ends at the same time on PFE reefers.

A couple additional points:
PFE reefers were painted something very close to what modelers call "Daylight Orange", and not "Reefer Orange".
The black-painted side hardware was removed from the PFE paint scheme in January 1949, though the side sills or tabs were still black. End hardware was always the same color as the end.

Clinics have been presented at the UPHS convention and WPM San Bernardino. Clinics will be presented at Naperville this year. The data will eventually get put on a website and/or published within the next year, I hope.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Re: Safeway Foods reefers

Richard Townsend
 

While we're on the subject of never seen a real one, has anyone seen a real Carnation reefer like this one (or a photo of a real one)?? http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH1602



I've seen photos of real ones like these,

http://www.stylefeeder.com/i/906mqvtb/Ho-Rtr-41-Apos-Reefer-Carnation?

and these

http://cgi.ebay.com/InterMountain-Carnation-Milk-Wood-Reefer-HO-47722-03_W0QQitemZ190333549620QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090907?IMSfp=TL090907186001r12519
but nothing like the Athearn version


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: goldrod_1 <goldrod_1@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:35 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Safeway Foods reefers






Did Safeway Foods have a fleet of leased reefers? I have seen many cars on the market at different times over the years, but I do not remember ever seeing a real one before. Thanks for any help.

Michael Bishop


Re: 70 ton offset hopper references request

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Thomas - I have no idea. I'm only an expert in the cars I make. For general knowledge see Richard Hendrickson. I'm pretty sure he had a major article on trucks in Railmodel Journal some years ago. You can probably find the issue in the MR data base. - Al

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 3:02 PM
Subject: [STMFC] 70 ton offset hopper references request


All,
I have collecting 70-ton hoppers from Accurail and Bowser/stewert, Mostly because I think they look neat.

Now, I am wondering who had these, when was the design created, are there any in use today, etc.

Any pictures, books, web sites, or other references would be helpful.

Thanks,
Thomas


Re: New 50' NP Steel Reefers from Sunshine

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

This was discussed on the NPModelers site and here's what Matt Herson had to
say.

-----
The paragraph from "The Sun" regarding the NP 50' Reefers must reference the
100 cars not 1000 cars of the NHIX 900-999 built 1946 and 1947. These cars
were leased from MDT hence the NHIX reporting marks and no diagrams have
surfaced for them. An excellent 2 part article on the cars by Dave Lambert
appeared in the January and February 1990 RMC. Starting in 1957 the number
of cars in this group began to drop and by 1960 only 12 cars were left with
only one left in 1965 and none in 1966.

Another group of 50' reefers were the NHIX 800-899 50' reefers built in 1951
that lasted into the BN. The lease was terminated in the late 1960s and
these cars became NP 94000 series cars which show up in the Jamestown wheel
reports. These cars were similar to the NHIX 900-999 except they had
diagonal panel roofs rather than rectangular panels.
-----

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rob McLearr wrote:
I need some help, I am modelling the Cajon Pass region during the time period of 1947 to 1949 and I thought that I had the colour scheme for PFE reefers down pretty right, but I may have made some errors, I was assuming that the colour scheme should be reefer orange sides and boxcar red roofs and ends, with black hardware and underframe. But I have read somewhere now that the roof and ends should be black, somewhat like the SFRD cars, I don't know if this is correct or not, or did PFE change their colour scheme sometime during my time frame, or worse still for me just before it.
You had it right the first time, Rob. PFE cars did get black roofs and ends in the 1960s, but not in your time.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


PFE reefer colour schemes

roblmclear <rob.mclear2@...>
 

Hi to all

I need some help, I am modelling the Cajon Pass region during the time period of 1947 to 1949 and I thought that I had the colour scheme for PFE reefers down pretty right, but I may have made some errors, I was assuming that the colour scheme should be reefer orange sides and boxcar red roofs and ends, with black hardware and underframe. But I have read somewhere now that the roof and ends should be black, somewhat like the SFRD cars, I don't know if this is correct or not, or did PFE change their colour scheme sometime during my time frame, or worse still for me just before it. I apologise if you have seen this on other groups I have cross posted it on a number of others.

Any help would be appreciated,
TIA

Rob McLear
Brisbane Australia.


Re: 70 ton offset hopper references request

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sep 22, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Thomas wrote:

All,
I have collecting 70-ton hoppers from Accurail and Bowser/stewert,
Mostly because I think they look neat.

Now, I am wondering who had these, when was the design created, are
there any in use today, etc.

Any pictures, books, web sites, or other references would be helpful.

Thanks,
Thomas
Thomas,
Articles about cars of this type were published in Mainline Modeler,
Oct. & Nov. 1994 (cars for Canadian roads) and Feb. & March 1995
(American roads). Also, Railmodel Journal published an article in May
1996 covering cars of this type built by Greenville Steel Car Co.,
who's builder's photos of these 70-ton offset-side cars weren't
available when the Mainline Modeler articles were published.

There were a number of variations in the cars including the side sills,
end arrangements, and the fact that many of the B&O cars had Duryea
underframes. These differences were in addition to the normal wide
array of specialty items. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Trying to contact Guy Wilber

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Folks,

I'm trying to contact Guy Wilber. He may be in trasition between WEst Bend, Wisc and out west.

Al Kresse


70 ton offset hopper references request

thomasmclae
 

All,
I have collecting 70-ton hoppers from Accurail and Bowser/stewert, Mostly because I think they look neat.

Now, I am wondering who had these, when was the design created, are there any in use today, etc.

Any pictures, books, web sites, or other references would be helpful.

Thanks,
Thomas


Those pesky wood sheathed ART reefers

Bill Welch
 

Jerry Michael's question about kit availability and the response about Jim Hayes website for Sunshine kits caused me to check this out. Wow, what a great resource Jim!

I looked at the old flyer for Sunshine's wood sheathed ART reefer for nostalgia, having built one years ago. I had thought Martin had also offered this kit in the rebuilt version with the paneled steel roof but he had not.

In the flyer, the suggested paint was a "true yellow," but by the time I built the TW versions of this reefer had seen an article in the MPHS magazine (I think it was) saying that the best color for ART reefers was a D&RGW gold, which I used on the wood and steel cars I have built.

With Martin re-doing some of his older kits, the USRA steel rebuilds for example, he may be interested in updating this kit as well. He has done the art work of course already when he did the steel cars, and has done several Murphy roofs for reefers that he could adapt for use to offer this rebuild.

It would do no harm to encourage him to do this car again, as he is responsive to suggestions. I will mention it but as I have everything ART want either built or unbuilt, I am not a customer. The more people he hears from about this, the more encouragement this will be.

Bill Welch


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Eric Hansmann
 

--- Jack Burgess wrote:

The cars were built around 1912 and yes, they started out with arch bar trucks. There are photos of the bolster/truck assemblies in Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Vol 2 (Tank cars) which show the original arch bar trucks.
snip<
==================================


Thanks for the details Jack. And thanks to Dennis for the additional detail and images. I searched for Richard Hendrickson's RMC article in the Model Train Mag Index. "Modeling Union Tank Line's 6500 gallon "Van Dyke" tank car" can be found in the December 1995 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. Time to dig my copy out of storage and reread.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Starting over in a new house:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Merlyn Lauber
 

Hi, I just returned from the Narrow Gauge Convention and Blackstone had flyers picturing the tank cars, both frame type and frameless. With almost 1900 registered I would assume that they ran out of them, which explains why you didn't see any mention of the tank cars. If you look on the Soundtraxx website you will see them listed and pictured.

Merlyn Lauber

-------------- Original message from "cn528" <jscagle@msn.com>: --------------

Good Morning Gang:

I just returned from the Narrow Gauge Convention where Blackstone Models were exhibiting and there was no mention, nor any info on an upcoming UTLX Tank car. That is not to say they aren't working on one, but i have a feeling they keep things very quiet. If you consider what they are doing I would expect them to do the UTLX tanks, it's just a matter of time.

In the meantime, if you want a 6050 gallon tank car, you can acquire a Standard Tank Car version of one from SC&F, ( me ). See how i just smoothly put that shameless plug in there!! I will upload a pic in the next day or so.

jon

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I
just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone
Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow guage. These were
converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing
both frameless and framed versions. While narrow guage models would be only
partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use
Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry suggesting they
either bring out the same model on proper standard guage frames, or work
with a resin manufacturer to do a standard guage frame or frames.

It would be neat to have this car available in standard guage HO!

Rob Kirkham


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Rob, it's well known that the frameless cars only had trucks
changed for narrow-gauge use. I don't know for sure but would doubt
that Rio Grande built new frames for the underframed cars either, but
someone more knowledgeable than me will have to answer for sure.
The class X cars that UTL converted for narrow gauge use did indeed have new frames fabricated. Apparently, the standard center sill with its 20 1/2" wide cover plate didn't allow adequate truck swing of 3' gauge wheel sets with their appx. 32" back-to-back dimension, so new frames were fabricated with the sills outside the truck side frames. The new frames may have made use of the original center sills with new cross members; I'm not enough of a narrow gauge fan to have ever paid attention.

I see that Steve Hile's builders photos have been approved. View them at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/458504697/pic/list

Thanks Steve. I also dug out something for Rob; a 6000 gal. UTLX class X car in Canadian service, preserved at the Canadian Railway Historical Society museum in Delson, P.Q. Interestingly, this car still has archbar trucks, although it has been equipped with AB brake. I tried to add my photos to the same album as Steve's, but couldn't for some reason, so they are here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/2142098359/pic/list

Please note that the outlet has a Fire Department Siamese connection installed by the museum. I'm also not entirely sure the lettering is 100% accurate; museum lettering jobs are always suspect.

Also the photo of the tank car frame and lap seams I posted the other week here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/2015799527/pic/list

Is of the 8000 gal. class X car at the Mid-Continent museum.

Dr. Hendrickson has in the past stated that the brake equipment on the clas V cars converted to narrow gauge was modified, but I don't know exactly what modifications were made. I also wonder if the side bearing extensions of the cast end frame-bolster-tank saddle needed modification to clear the narrower spacing of the narrow gauge truck side frames. Some place I have close-up photos of these parts on an 8000 gal car that was never converted (all the NG conversions were 6000 gal cars) but I can't seem to lay my hands on them at the moment. If I find them I'll add them to one of the albums.

Dennis


Re: Sunshine ART ktis still available?

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Jerry,
Go to http://www.sunshinekits.com/index.html
and all your questions will be answered.
Pierre Oliver

- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, asychis@... wrote:


Hi, I was wondering if any list members have a recent Sunshine list and
know if kits 46.10-46.12 are still available? Price? I could write Sunshine,
but that will take three months or more for an answer.

Thanks,

Jerry Michels


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

GUYZ,
 
           peach creek models makes several 5' wheelbase trucks if that helps.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com> wrote:


From: Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 6:18 PM


 



Rob wrote:

I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I
just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone
Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow gauge.
These were
converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing
both frameless and framed versions. While narrow gauge models
would be only
partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use
Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry
suggesting they
either bring out the same model on proper standard gauge frames, or work
with a resin manufacturer to do a standard gauge frame or frames.

It would be neat to have this car available in standard gauge HO!

Rob Kirkham
As has been mentioned before one this list, the D&RGW Gramps frameless UTLX
tanks cars were built as standard gauge cars and the D&RGW only changed out
the trucks to convert them. So, these "narrow gauge" cars could easily be
reconverted to standard gauge. However, the challenge is that the cars
should have 5' wheelbase cast "Bettendorf- type" trucks which are difficult
to find. Richard Hendrickson described one approach to this problem in his
article on using the Precision Scale kits in an article in RMC many years
ago...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyr r.com


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

cn528 <jscagle@...>
 

Good Morning Gang:

I just returned from the Narrow Gauge Convention where Blackstone Models were exhibiting and there was no mention, nor any info on an upcoming UTLX Tank car. That is not to say they aren't working on one, but i have a feeling they keep things very quiet. If you consider what they are doing I would expect them to do the UTLX tanks, it's just a matter of time.

In the meantime, if you want a 6050 gallon tank car, you can acquire a Standard Tank Car version of one from SC&F, ( me ). See how i just smoothly put that shameless plug in there!! I will upload a pic in the next day or so.

jon

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I
just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone
Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow guage. These were
converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing
both frameless and framed versions. While narrow guage models would be only
partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use
Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry suggesting they
either bring out the same model on proper standard guage frames, or work
with a resin manufacturer to do a standard guage frame or frames.

It would be neat to have this car available in standard guage HO!

Rob Kirkham


Sunshine ART ktis still available?

asychis@...
 

Hi, I was wondering if any list members have a recent Sunshine list and
know if kits 46.10-46.12 are still available? Price? I could write Sunshine,
but that will take three months or more for an answer.

Thanks,

Jerry Michels


Re: Safeway Foods reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Michael

I know what you mean, I had an Athearn Safeway 50' reefer as a teenager.
But I've never seen a photo of such a car and I can't find any published
references or emails ever discussing them.

Tim

Did Safeway Foods have a fleet of leased reefers? I have seen many cars on the market at different times over the years, but I do not remember ever seeing a real one before. Thanks for any help.

Michael Bishop


Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009

Tim O'Connor
 

Kurt, I got the long version from someone involved (and who
contemplated putting up $100,000 in legal fees as a -small-
part of the legal action against UP) but I don't recall this
ever going to trial, so you would not find the case. Basically
MTH retained some very heavy hitter lawyers and UP backed down
and modified its licensing -- I don't think they ever admitted
they don't own any of the trademarks. I have noticed products
that claim CSXT as well as UP licenses so UP is not the only
company to require licenses; MTH basically got them to drop
the license fees for model trains. (Books and videos, I dunno.)

Tim O'Connor

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Can you cite a case or so I can look them up?
Kurt, this isn't the list for such a topic, though editorials
in places like TRAINS magazine did present the outcomes. I'd guess the
on-line RR magazine index would be a place you can find those pieces.
It was also discussed at length on Mike Brock's LICEN (licensing)
Yahoo forum, which you could join to search those archives.

Tony Thompson


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Robert kirkham
 

Not at all sure what your point is Jon. The original e-mail I sent said: "... I just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone Models is apparently doing ...". All three of the links I sent earlier mention it, with more or less detail. Further, one of the links I sent to you is from Soundtraxxs blog - and since (from what I read on the web - another caveat) they are the owners of Blackstone, it leads one to give a degree of credibility to the announcement.

Beyond that, like every other product announcement its wait and see....

Rob

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jon Miller" <atsf@inow.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:54 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

OK even with links to Blackstone site, no information. One of the links
said they are doing it.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



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