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Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis S. wrote:
I'd also give building a new center sill for a class X car a shot, starting with a frameless model, since the wide frame added to the narrow gauge conversions looks like more trouble than it's worth. If anyone goes this route, before casting covetous eyes on other tankcar kit underframes, be aware that the class X cars predate the general adoption of 12" cannel for center sills, and the prototype used 15" channels. This is the car MDC tried to model years ago, but somehow managed to double the depth of this already hevier than normal sill.
Yup. I always assumed MDC made the frame so darn big so they could weight the car thereby. There was certainly no molding need for so big a part.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

michael bishop wrote:
I think (a dangerous thing for me do anymore) that I read somewhere that PFE had some silver or aluminum ice bunker reefers. Is this correct, or am I getting my facts mixed up. Thanks for any help.
Yessir. They built exactly two aluminum body cars at a time when the PFE car fleet was around 40,000 cars. Much as I like PFE and many PFE model cars as I have, I don't have one of them--they are just too rare. But hey, model them both if you like.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Charlie Vlk
 

Dennis is correct.... and I agree with him about manufacturers "sticking to their knitting"..... I am a great believer that a company should figure out what they are good at and not try to be everthing to everyone.

I was not aware of the Precision Scale plastic kit for either car, in spite of my exposure to Des Plaines Hobbies.
I might have had my N Scale googles on if there were such kits in the store; however, I think I would have seen them if they had been in stock in the last few years. Precision Scale is somewhat under-represented in the retail shops?

I am not sure what the size of the Narrow Gauge market is / will be. The current lack of readily available track components (although I hear this is going to be rectified soon) certainly rules out any explosive growth to parallel the On30 one or even G Gauge in this RTR heavy world.

I know this list is not much interested in RTR but my original premise still holds... a standard gauge RTR version of the car would outsell the HOn3 one given the same quality level, etc.. even if Blackstone isn't the one to do it.

Charlie Vlk


Railroad Prototype Modelers-Valley Forge 2010

prr282
 

Railroad Prototype Modelers-Valley Forge 2010 will be held on March 26-28, 2010. The location is the Desmond Hotel and Conference Center in Malvern, PA. This is the same great location as our previous 3 Meets. Visit our web site for all the information----www.phillynmra.org/rpmmeet.html

Paul Backenstose


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

Blackstone would be smart to tool a standard gauge cast steel sideframe truck and offer their car to the general HO market.
My guess is that the car would outsell the narrow gauge version. Anyone looked into how many paint schemes/roadnames the
prototype would be good for??
Charlie Vlk

One, Union Tank Line.

I'm going to disagree with Charlie here. Model railroad manufacturers tend to establish themselves in a niche, then continue to market to that niche. Doing ONE kit that is aimed at a different market risks having a "one trick pony" that no one knows about, so doesn't sell. Don't be surprised if the suggestion to do a standard gauge version is met with stony silence. If they do it, what will they follow it with? I don't think a standard gauge version of Rio Grande 3000 series boxcar is going to sell very well.

Case in point, how many here are aware that Precision Scale Company has made this same kit in both narrow gauge AND standard gauge for about the last dozen or so years. They are currently in stock at Walthers now; Freight Car Kit -- UTLX Frameless Tank Car Plastic Kit, #585-10611 with plastic details, less trucks for $22.50, #585-10612 w/Brass Details, Less Trucks for $24.50. How many have ever seen one? I haven't.

And apparently Jon Cagle of SC&F makes a resin kit for this car, although I don't see them on his web site.

No the best I'm hoping for is that the narrow gauge version is well detailed, with robust walkways and steps that won't fall off, and nice paint and lettering. I'm perfectly capable of changing the trucks myself, and perfectly willing to use the stock number from a narrow gauge car especially if they do some cars in the pre 1947 numbers, since they were taken at random from the standard gauge series.

I'd also give building a new center sill for a class X car a shot, starting with a frameless model, since the wide frame added to the narrow gauge conversions looks like more trouble than it's worth. If anyone goes this route, before casting covetous eyes on other tankcar kit underframes, be aware that the class X cars predate the general adoption of 12" cannel for center sills, and the prototype used 15" channels. This is the car MDC tried to model years ago, but somehow managed to double the depth of this already hevier than normal sill.

Dennis


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

michael bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

I think (a dangerous thing for me do anymore) that I read somewhere that PFE had some silver or aluminum ice bunker reefers. Is this correct, or am I getting my facts mixed up. Thanks for any help.
 
Michael Bishop


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dick Harley wrote:
It's hard enough to sort out and document the "official" painting and lettering schemes that PFE created. These occasional 'errors' make the job interesting, but more time consuming and sometimes frustrating. My interest is in providing correct information to manufacturers and modelers . . .
Absolutely right. Modelers need to know the standard paint schemes. Oddball color combinations on a few PFE reefers is no more meaningful than those examples of various road names stenciled with the letters out of order.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Dick Harley
 

On Tue Sep 22, 2009 Tim O'Connor pointed to some photos in Rock Island and PRR books.

Well geesh, the weird photos always show up in books I do not have and would not think to look in. Thanks very much for the references, Tim. I'll try to track them down. It will be interesting to see when and where those cars were painted. Other inputs are certainly welcome.

And as Tony wrote, there clearly are a few cars that get painted something other than what the plans say. I know it's true for UP and PFE, and likely for all other railroads too.

It's hard enough to sort out and document the "official" painting and lettering schemes that PFE created. These occasional 'errors' make the job interesting, but more time consuming and sometimes frustrating. My interest is in providing correct information to manufacturers and modelers so that they don't go and produce a dozen road numbers with a painting & lettering scheme that is at best one- of-a-kind - like maybe InterMountain does. There are so many prototype PFE painting & lettering schemes possible that it really frustrates me to see folks do bogus schemes.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Modeling UTLX type X and V (was Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars)

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

As has been noted here before, Precision Scale offers a plastic kit for the UTLX 6500 gallon type V in both HO and HON3. The HO kit does need some detail changes beyond simply 5' wheelbase trucks to be correct (following Richard's article), but it is a nice starting place. Precision Scale also offers an HON3 "narrow frame" version of this tank car, as apparently, so will Blackstone. Having recently ordered one of these, I compared it to the frameless car. Importantly, Precision has changed out the casting for the bottom sheet of the tank, so that the heavy castings for the type V are not present, making this tank appropriate for a car with a frame. The frame, while not appropriate for a Type X car, could serve as a starting point, with the coupler pockets and bolsters being useful. All in all, the PSC "narrow frame" car looks like an excellent point for a kitbash of the UTLX type X.


Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D., Professor of Pathobiology
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
Auburn University, AL 36849-5525
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
************************************************************************ *********
"Evolution is a fact, get used to it"


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Charlie Vlk
 

Blackstone would be smart to tool a standard gauge cast steel sideframe truck and offer their car to the general HO market.
My guess is that the car would outsell the narrow gauge version. Anyone looked into how many paint schemes/roadnames the
prototype would be good for??
Charlie Vlk


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

steve l <stevelucas3@...>
 

Here's a photo of a Type V, UTLX 55136, on the Central Vermont Ry. rip tracks in St Albans, VT circa 1943.

http://www.images.technomuses.ca/index.php?en/stories/central_vermont/b/page/1/popupimage/CN005406

Obviously, the photographer didn't appreciate how useful this photo might be to modellers of STMFC's 66 years of so later. If that time machine is ever invented, someone should thank him---and maybe tell him to take a few more photos of that Type V? ;)

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, mlauber4@... wrote:

Hi, I just returned from the Narrow Gauge Convention and Blackstone had flyers picturing the tank cars, both frame type and frameless. With almost 1900 registered I would assume that they ran out of them, which explains why you didn't see any mention of the tank cars. If you look on the Soundtraxx website you will see them listed and pictured.

Merlyn Lauber

-------------- Original message from "cn528" <jscagle@...>: --------------

Good Morning Gang:

I just returned from the Narrow Gauge Convention where Blackstone Models were exhibiting and there was no mention, nor any info on an upcoming UTLX Tank car. That is not to say they aren't working on one, but i have a feeling they keep things very quiet. If you consider what they are doing I would expect them to do the UTLX tanks, it's just a matter of time.

In the meantime, if you want a 6050 gallon tank car, you can acquire a Standard Tank Car version of one from SC&F, ( me ). See how i just smoothly put that shameless plug in there!! I will upload a pic in the next day or so.

jon

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@> wrote:

I don't think this has been mentioned here so thought I'd bring it up: I
just became aware of some dealer web pages that mention that Blackstone
Models is apparently doing the GRAMPS tank cars in narrow guage. These were
converted UTLX cars, and while I'm uncertain, I think Blackstone is doing
both frameless and framed versions. While narrow guage models would be only
partially useful to us (the tanks - and you can build your own or use
Precision Scale models), I just sent them a polite enquiry suggesting they
either bring out the same model on proper standard guage frames, or work
with a resin manufacturer to do a standard guage frame or frames.

It would be neat to have this car available in standard guage HO!

Rob Kirkham



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

steve l <stevelucas3@...>
 

Dennis--


Thanks for posting these drawings. They print nicely on legal-size papaer using landscape format.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@> wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote:
It occurs to me that any copyrights have run out on this 103 year
old book...
Not only that, but if copyrighted it was under the rather
primitive law prior to 1912, so DEFINITELY no worries. <g>

Done. Drawings from the 1906 Car Builder's Dictionary are in the Files area here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/UTL%20Tankcar%20Drawings/

And the two builders photos published in the same source will be added to the album with the later photos of the 6,000 gal. X car here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/2142098359/pic/list

Dennis


Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Robert kirkham
 

So far I have not had a response to my e-mail. I'm heading off to work this morning. If no one else sends the links to the drawings and photos to Blackstone today, I'll pass them on this evening and see if that awakens an interest. If one of you gets to it before me, please drop me a line so I don't duplicate your effort.

Rob Kirkham


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote:
It occurs to me that any copyrights have run out on this 103 year
old book...
Not only that, but if copyrighted it was under the rather
primitive law prior to 1912, so DEFINITELY no worries. <g>

Done. Drawings from the 1906 Car Builder's Dictionary are in the Files area here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/UTL%20Tankcar%20Drawings/

And the two builders photos published in the same source will be added to the album with the later photos of the 6,000 gal. X car here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/2142098359/pic/list

Dennis


Morrell Meat Packing reefers

goldrod_1 <goldrod_1@...>
 

I have some questions about Morrell reefers.

1. What year did they start to use the Heart inside a Heart emblem?

2. What year did they start to use the bluegreen/ light green reefers?

Thanks for any help

Michael Bishop


Re: Safeway Foods reefers

michael bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

I beginning to think that some of these paint schemes have been around so long and used by so many model railroad manufactures, copied and recopied that they do not know if it is really correct or not. Like the Santa Fe green cattle car, it been done by about every model railroad company out there and in all scales. I have seen the Carnation car in all black lettering, no red at all and some painted in all red with no black. I guess this is what makes "Model Railroad is Fun".
 
Michael Bishop

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, richtownsend@netscape.net <richtownsend@netscape.net> wrote:


From: richtownsend@netscape.net <richtownsend@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Safeway Foods reefers
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 4:17 PM


 




While we're on the subject of never seen a real one, has anyone seen a real Carnation reefer like this one (or a photo of a real one)?? http://www.athearn. com/Products/ Default.aspx? ProdID=ATH1602

I've seen photos of real ones like these,

http://www.stylefee der.com/i/ 906mqvtb/ Ho-Rtr-41- Apos-Reefer- Carnation?

and these

http://cgi.ebay. com/InterMountai n-Carnation- Milk-Wood- Reefer-HO- 47722-03_ W0QQitemZ1903335 49620QQcmdZViewI temQQimsxZ200909 07?IMSfp= TL090907186001r1 2519
but nothing like the Athearn version

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: goldrod_1 <goldrod_1@yahoo. com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:35 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Safeway Foods reefers

Did Safeway Foods have a fleet of leased reefers? I have seen many cars on the market at different times over the years, but I do not remember ever seeing a real one before. Thanks for any help.

Michael Bishop


















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Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

It should be obvious that this is not the original center sill; it should also be obvious that if Blackstone is tooling this frame, there is not much hope for standard gauging the model.<
I would think that the sales would be much better if the model could also be used for standard gauge. They could even sell it that way by changing the trucks. Maybe on the one they would need two frames.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
One more item: Morning Sun PRR Color Guide, Volume 2, page 79 -- a shot of PFE 11559 (R-40-28) with glistening black ends, and a red metallic roof.
As Tim points out, there DO exist examples in photos of ice cars prior to the 1962 adoption of aluminum roofs and black ends for PFE ice cars, which have red roofs and black ends, or aluminum roofs and red ends, or red roofs and black ends. Earl Hopkins, retired CMO for PFE, told me in our interview that once the mechanical cars started getting black ends and aluminum roofs, the shops sometimes would squeeze in an ice car while they had the "wrong" paint in the spray gun. But it was NOT standard or even very common before 1962, and he stated that shops which did this would "get a memo" about it.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight Conductors' Train Book, 1938 (summary of car contents)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tree ripened, sweet apricots only show up for about 2-3 weeks a year here, and they are expensive. I've stopped buying peaches & nectarines too, since they gas & irradiate them to preserve their appearance while the insides rot away...
Ah yes, the fruit quality I recall well from my own days living in the east -- yet another reason I prefer California <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
It occurs to me that any copyrights have run out on this 103 year old book...
Not only that, but if copyrighted it was under the rather primitive law prior to 1912, so DEFINITELY no worries. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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