Jeff - Years ago I brought a portable copier into the ACF archives at St.
Charles and copied the lot list up through about 1955. I've made copies of
the list at cost for about half a dozen persons. Ed Kaminski has a copy of
the complete list. However, his is missing a column indicating the
existence of a builder's photo; mine has that.

Someone does have a copy of the Pullman lot list - however, each lot is on a
separate sheet so the stack is many feet high. I know of no others.

- Al Westerfield
Westerfield

Gosh Byron, I ain't mad at ya! In fact, in answering Richard's questions, you answered some I had not thought to ask, thanks.

Warren Dickinson

Hello Richard,

Since nobody seems to have answered all of your questions, I thought I'd
take it upon myself to do so and get everybody good and mad at me. Here
goes:

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:56:44 EST ThisIsR@aol.com writes:

Good afternoon:
Is there a problem in getting models from Sunshine Models?
I've heard
it mentioned on other lists that it takes a very loonnggg time to
receive
models or
catalogs from this company.

The best way to get Sunshine Models is directly from Martin at one of the
many shows he goes to each year, especially his own in Naperville each
fall. Even when you order one from him in person that he doesn't have on
hand, it's still a 3 month wait. I've tried asking him for specific kits
a month before I was going to see him at a show, and it was still a 3
month wait - from the time of the show. Or ask a friend, perhaps someone
on this list, to pick them up for you when they see him.

Is there a particular detail parts company that is better at
building steam-era
super detail parts? More variety?

Best in overall quality is Grandt Line. Next is Precision Scale.
Followed by Detail Associates, Tichy, Bowser (Cal Scale) etc., etc., etc.
But keep in mind that no one company makes everything you'll need for
any freight car project. Also, you have to beware that some parts made
by some of them should be avoided. Fer instance, contrary to what some
before me have said, Tichy and Cal Scale AB brakes fall into that
category. Most, if not all of their AB brake parts are undersize. Just
compare them to the same parts made by Grandt Line (and Detail Assoc.)
which are pretty close to correct HO scale. The Cal Scale AB valve is
grossly squished, about .025" was removed from its middle many years ago,
and good old Bowser copied it in that exact misshaped form last year.
Tichys part is closer to TT scale. OTOH, the Cal Scale K brake is the
only one made with a proper size and shape to the triple valve part of
it.

Of the other parts out there, you need to try some of each and see if
they represent what you are trying to create. Remember that you are
building miniature versions of a real once-existing piece of equipment
and every part going into the miniature should be representative of that
on the full size car.

At what point did carbuilders and railroads switch from wooden
roofwalks to steel roofwalks?

Although new car construction changed from wood to steel after WW2, older
cars never were required to change and many of them retained their wood
walks until their death or disroofwalkment. Many cars had their walks
changed when they underwent a major rebuilding at some later point in
their life. The only real answer to this question is to look at photos
of that which you are modeling. If you have a photo of a 1932 built box
car taken in 1958 and it has a metal roofwalk on it, it's a good bet
that's what your model should have a metal roofwalk if you want it
representative of 1958.

BTW, the best way to represent wood roofwalks on a model is with
Evergreen 2x6 styrene strips. Almost any cast roofwalk will have board
ends and carriage bolt heads (not nails or rivets, but that's a subject
for another diatribe) patterns which will probably NOT line up with the
supports on the car you're modeling. They're easy to build from scratch,
and give your model a little customized detail visible from it's most
viewed from position.

Thank you for your time!
Richard Stallworth

You're welcome!

Byron Rose
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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From time to time several contributors to this list will quote
citations from a Lot List for one or more of the historical car
builders. My question is how does one go about acquiring one's
own copy of such lists, rather than relying on random mentions on
this list. For which builders are there known to be lists available?
Obvious desirable builders' lists would include Pullman, ACF,
PSC, SSC, Haskell & Barker, Magor, Mt. Vernon, etc. I'd love to
find one for MDT/Despatch Shops, but I think that one is unlikely.

Guy Wilber writes:

<<4. Southern Pacific 58403 WB F.Oil 3-17-49>>

This would be an 0-50-12 proving that the SP cars may have wondered

somewhat.

<<10. Southern Pacific TNO 51215 WB Oil 5 3-19-49 This car's No. does

not

match '53 ORER >>

If this is the correct number for the SP it would have been a fairly

ancient

(for the time) 1903 built CS-25A tank of which only a "handful" were still

in

service in 1949. There were also transfers of 0-50-5 tanks from T&NO to

SP

(pre WWll), but this number does not fit into that number range
(51080-51132

Guy, looking at the number again, there is not much doubt that it is 51215.
The only questionable number might be the "2" but Fraley did his "7" with a
straight top and usually with a tiny perpendicular on the left side of the
top "bar". His "2" sometimes doesn't have the trailing bottom which this one
doesn't have. The TNO is pretty clear.

I'll be completing the tank cars soon...looking at the SDRX and SHPX cars.

Mike Brock

In a message dated 3/8/01 10:20:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
guycwilber@aol.com writes:

<< may have wondered somewhat. >>

They wandered and we wondered.

Guy

Mike listed the following cars from his UP conductors' book:


<<4. Southern Pacific 58403 WB F.Oil 3-17-49>>

This would be an 0-50-12 proving that the SP cars may have wondered somewhat.

<<10. Southern Pacific TNO 51215 WB Oil 5 3-19-49 This car's No. does not
match '53 ORER >>

If this is the correct number for the SP it would have been a fairly ancient
(for the time) 1903 built CS-25A tank of which only a "handful" were still in
service in 1949. There were also transfers of 0-50-5 tanks from T&NO to SP
(pre WWll), but this number does not fit into that number range
(51080-51132). Ed Workman, Bill Kelly or Tony T. may know more.

Cool stuff Mike.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada

I believe Martin's plan is to include tanks as a part of the kit.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 3/7/01, at 8:27 AM, Dave & Libby Nelson wrote:

Would the IM tank come with the kit or be purchased separately?

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Welch [mailto:bwelch@uucf.org]
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:02 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] What is holding up UTLX tank car kits


Regarding these kits and what is holding up their release from
Sunshine Models, the catch is that Martin L. is having difficulty
finding someone to do the photoetched parts in the kit. The
patterns are done for the underframe. The underframe is designed
to have its length easily changed to accomodate different length
tanks. Designed essentially to use the InterMountain 8K & 10K
tanks, one will be able to easily shorten the underframe to fit a
Life Like 8K or 10K tank to it, for example. I know I
specifically acquired extra undecorated LL kits with this in mind.

I will use the extra LL underfrmaes that result with the smaller
tanks Tichy is planning to do as extra parts to be fitted with
alteration to his underframe.


Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399

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Bill 'Welch <bwelch@uucf.org>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399

Would the IM tank come with the kit or be purchased separately?

Dave Nelson

Mike Brock observed:

"It sure doesn't look like an X-29."

That's because it isn't an express X29 - it's a Class R50b express reefer!


Ben Hom

Bruce,
The date on the mail train is 1957. I've uploaded the photo......including
an ACL and PFE car as well.....in the STMFC archive. It sure doesn't look
like an X-29.

Mike

Mike,

You're right, that ain't no X-29! In fact it takes us back to our original
discussion as it is an R-50b. Since I am not aware of any systematic
passenger car renumberings on the PRR between '53 and '57, the number on
this car must have been misread, as it should be in the series 2551-3100.
A VERY careful look at the image, and a little "imaginoscopic vision" (the
sort of thing we accuse radiologists of having in my trade <G>), and you
can see that the number is most likely 2748 and not 2248...nice DIRTY car!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
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And for us fans of early Rock'n'Roll, there is nearby Clear Lake Iowa. It is the lcation of the still extant Surf Ball Room, the dance hall which was the site of the concert Feb. 2/59 just prior to the Holly/Valens/Bopper crash of Feb. 3/59.

--
Stafford Swain
26 Kenneth Street
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
R3T 0K8
(204) 477-9246
sswain@mts.net

Further info from Clark, in case he hasn't already replied directly.

Mason City was written up in the New York Times travel magazine in the
last year. Seems that the "Music Man" was based on someone from there,
and the town has much to offer to tourists. I think there's an electric
railway museum too, no?

There is an interior picture too. I mentioned this in an earlier post, but
thought I mention it again.
Clark

Clark Propst wrote:

Tim, Group,
You'll have to excuse me, I thought everyone would know which library from
pass post on this subject. Anyway, all of you can feel free to contact Terry
Harrison at thr Mason City Iowa Public Library by E-mail. Mention my name and
of course the Decker's reefer picture.

E-mail address
archive@mcpl.org

Clark

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Bruce,
While in the Army form 77 to 87 I had the chance to spend some time
in Army troop cars on guard duty when transporting Army equipment by
rail. The cars I spent time in were rebuilt WW II cars and were like
the car you described, but ours didn't have anything neat in them.
The cars had been converted to self contained guard cars and had a
kitchen and dining area in one end and a shower, toilet and six bunks
in the other with a partition and door between them. Aft of the bunk
area in an enclosed room was a diesel generator and hot water heater
so the car did have a large fuel tank under it. They still had the
high speed trucks and signal and steam lines. I spent many nights in
rail yards in these cars and I'm sure the rest of the guys with me
couldn't figure out why I didn't mind my turn walking the train.
I've been out of the military for a long time but I'm sure they still
have and use a few of these cars. There is or was an Army Rail unit
at Ft. Eustis VA that may still do some work on them but I'm not sure.
Jim Butler
www.sa-com.org

--- In STMFC@y..., "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@m...>
wrote:

Hello all,

As many of you know, I have an interest in WWII Troop Sleepers and

Kitchen

cars. Vaguely, in the back of my mind, I recalled some cars that

might

have been converted from these cars at the Heart of Dixie Railroad

Museum

in Calera Alabama...so we went over there a couple of weeks ago and

here is

what we found!

The museum has 4 car, USAX G-53, G-64 and two numbers I failed to

write

down or get in photos. I was told that these were "simulator crew

cars".

The cars appear to be converted WWII troop kitchen cars (3 small

windows,

left side), with express trucks, dual AB brakes, and some

significant

modifications including large underbody fuel tanks. I took as many

photos

as the situation and light would allow and they are posted in a new

album

(USAX crew cars) on my photopoint site
(http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1312242). The paint

scheme -

silver with the Strategic Air Command's lightning bolt fist logo is

pretty

stunning! Obviously, with USAX markings, this paint scheme was

applied

some time after the mid 1950s...

Does anyone know anything else about these cars? Would they have

been seen

in trains, or were they pretty much fixed in place...I was told

that two of

them are being used for housing for museum staff right now!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -

Benjamin Franklin

__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___

____________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __

__ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; |

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_|

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0-0

Guy Wilber wrote:

Within my data I find no conclusive mention of a further extension to July,
1941. There is no member road vote listed (via letter ballot) within the
1941 AAR Mechanical Division "Proceedings". Was this extension granted by
the AARs' Board of Directors (as was the case in several of the previous
extensions)? If July, 1941 was indeed the final date, can anyone here
provide conclusive information via AAR interchange rules book and/or other
data?

I have seen the 7/41 date documented but in searching in my (currently
rather disorderly) files for the evidence, I haven't been able to find it.
I'll continue to look for it, but I'm sure that mid-1941 is the correct
date.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Forwarded from the M&StL list... Anyone have any further info
on the Decker line?

From: Clark Propst <cepropst@rconnect.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:48:55 -0600
Reply-To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mstl] Decker reefers

I just got back from the library with my new treasure. It's a photo of
the Deckers reefers taken on 2-19-35. There's a string of at least a
dozen, the most prominent car is 2588. At a guess I'd say the sides are
yellow with the rest of the car being BCR. To the left of the door in
roman letters are stacked 'Decker refrigerator Line'. Below that are
the reporting marks D.M.R.X. in gothic with number under marks. Right
side of door centered is Refrigerator in roman.

As of 1933, Decker's 36' meat reefers numbered DMRX 2550-2574 and 2800-2904
and tank cars JEDX 20-50 were operated by General American. By 1940, the
reefers were incorporated in GATC's ORER entry, though still under DMRX
reporting marks, and the tank cars were no longer listed. By that time the
reefer number series was 2800-2949. By 1943 the Decker cars were no longer
listed in the ORER, having been absorbed into the GATC fleet. In the 1920s
and '30s General American operated meat reefers for a number of different
packing houses that had their own reporting marks and kept the cars in
assigned service. This practice declined during WWII, when freight cars
were pooled to get maximum mileage out of them, and the cars were absorbed
into the GARX fleet (most of them having been built by GATC in the first
place).

Clark, is it possible to get a copy of that photo for publication?


Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Hello all,

As many of you know, I have an interest in WWII Troop Sleepers and Kitchen
cars. Vaguely, in the back of my mind, I recalled some cars that might
have been converted from these cars at the Heart of Dixie Railroad Museum
in Calera Alabama...so we went over there a couple of weeks ago and here is
what we found!

The museum has 4 car, USAX G-53, G-64 and two numbers I failed to write
down or get in photos. I was told that these were "simulator crew cars".
The cars appear to be converted WWII troop kitchen cars (3 small windows,
left side), with express trucks, dual AB brakes, and some significant
modifications including large underbody fuel tanks. I took as many photos
as the situation and light would allow and they are posted in a new album
(USAX crew cars) on my photopoint site
(http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1312242). The paint scheme -
silver with the Strategic Air Command's lightning bolt fist logo is pretty
stunning! Obviously, with USAX markings, this paint scheme was applied
some time after the mid 1950s...

Does anyone know anything else about these cars? Would they have been seen
in trains, or were they pretty much fixed in place...I was told that two of
them are being used for housing for museum staff right now!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

Does anyone out there have a photo that they could scan for me that shows
how the ACL's K-7 gons were lettered in the mid-1940's? The K-7 gons are
the fishbelly center sill ones with short sides made in resin by Funaro.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Ted

------------------------------
Ted Culotta
Electron Economy
t: 408-597-3233
f: 408-873-3279
e: ted@electroneconomy.com
w: www.electroneconomy.com

Forwarded from the M&StL list... Anyone have any further info
on the Decker line?

From: Clark Propst <cepropst@rconnect.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:48:55 -0600
Reply-To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mstl] Decker reefers

I just got back from the library with my new treasure. It's a photo of
the Deckers reefers taken on 2-19-35. There's a string of at least a
dozen, the most prominent car is 2588. At a guess I'd say the sides are
yellow with the rest of the car being BCR. To the left of the door in
roman letters are stacked 'Decker refrigerator Line'. Below that are
the reporting marks D.M.R.X. in gothic with number under marks. Right
side of door centered is Refrigerator in roman.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts