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Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars - now modeling PSC cars

Jack Burgess
 

Ned wrote:
Richard suggested modifying the springs on a Bowser PRR caboose
truck to get an appropriate 5' truck. Does Tahoe Model Works do
any 5' trucks?
No, Tahoe doesn't have a 5' wheelbase truck. I used whatever trucks Richard
suggested in his article (as mentioned in another e-mail, I thought I used
Eastern Car Works trucks but I don't have the article anymore). I cut coil
springs from some old Athearn trucks Richard gave me (I never owned any
Athearn cars and thus didn't have them for cannibalizing). After salvaging a
pair of springs, I used them as a master and cast resin copies for all of
the trucks. The existing single coil spring was milled out using a special
jig to hold the truck side frames.

BTW, there was an article on these cars in the July/August 1978 issue of the
Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette. The article covers by the Van Dyke cars
and the narrow framed cars and gives original numbers, dates, etc. The
author (Robert Sloan) states "These [the Van Dyke cars] had two types of
truck bolsters and were rebuilt by applying pads for narrow gauge slide
bearings with special cast steel ASF trucks."....just as Dennis suggested.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars - now modeling PSC cars

Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
 

I pulled out Richard Hendrickson's article on the PSC cars. I have seen UTLX cars of this era that had what looks like a spring sticking out perpendicular from the draft gear. Richard mentions this in the article and refers to it as Cardwell draft gear.

I don't see this in some of the recent photos posted to the group but it shows clearly in some of the photos from my own collection. It occurs to me that perhaps it was only on one side. Or perhaps this was this something added later.

Can anyone supply more info?

Richard suggested modifying the springs on a Bowser PRR caboose truck to get an appropriate 5' truck. Does Tahoe Model Works do any 5' trucks?

Thank you,

Ned Carey


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

I have one, too. It sits in my display case with my out-of-era billboard reefers. I suspect that my unbuilt PSC tank car will end up there as well, if it ever gets built.
Last week we toured the studio of the late artist Alan Houser outside of Santa Fe. On display is a large (7' high) block of unworked stone. The guide said words to the effect that "This block was standing in the artist's studio at the time of his death. Concealed within it remains the graceful and beautiful work of art the artist envisioned. We display it to honor that vision."

Both my wife (a weaver) and I had the same thought - what a great way to deal with our respective stashes of unfinished work. But we both thought we'd need much bigger burial plots.

Tom Madden


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Richard Townsend
 

I have one, too.? It sits in my display case with my out-of-era billboard reefers.? I suspect that my unbuilt PSC tank car will end up there as well, if it ever gets built.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, Sep 23, 2009 3:56 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: PFE reefer colour schemes






I confess that I have one with the curved corners and script Pacific Fruit
Express. It's such a beautiful design. I knew when I bought it that it was a
one-off and only lasted a very, very short time and that was outside my era.
Out of 35 PFE reefers, it's the only oddball.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I confess that I have one with the curved corners and script Pacific Fruit
Express. It's such a beautiful design. I knew when I bought it that it was a
one-off and only lasted a very, very short time and that was outside my era.
Out of 35 PFE reefers, it's the only oddball.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jack Burgess
 

Jim admitted:
I have had HO versions of both the frameless and narrow frame
versions since
the mid '90s. And like too many of my purchases, neither one is
finished but
both have been started. I even have Wabash Custom decals for the frameless
car.
That makes me feel better! I bought six of the frameless PSC kits after
Richard's article came out, got them started, but got hung up on modifying
the Eastern Car Works (?) trucks by replacing the single coil springs with a
pair of springs. I finally finished them last year and all six are in
service on the layout. (A majority of tank cars on the prototype YVRR were
6,000 gallon UTLX Van Dykes.)

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Dennis S. wrote
-----
Case in point, how many here are aware that Precision Scale Company has made
this same kit in both narrow gauge AND standard gauge for about the last
dozen or so years. They are currently in stock at Walthers now; Freight Car
Kit -- UTLX Frameless Tank Car Plastic Kit, #585-10611 with plastic details,
less trucks for $22.50, #585-10612 w/Brass Details, Less Trucks for $24.50.
How many have ever seen one? I haven't.
------
I have had HO versions of both the frameless and narrow frame versions since
the mid '90s. And like too many of my purchases, neither one is finished but
both have been started. I even have Wabash Custom decals for the frameless
car.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

rob lmclear wrote:
Exactly right Tony, I have stayed away from them as well it's also why I haven't modelled or bought a car with the rounded painted sides or the car with the script lettering, I did falter in HO a few years ago when Intermountain offered the car with the boxcar red stripes on the sides but won't be going that route again. As you say just too rare and in some cases the paint didn't last all that long on the railroad.
Yes, the curved corner script is even worse--just ONE car--and like the stripe scheme, didn't last very long. But many modelers cannot resist this kind of stuff.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

roblmclear <rob.mclear2@...>
 

Exactly right Tony, I have stayed away from them as well it's also why I haven't modelled or bought a car with the rounded painted sides or the car with the script lettering, I did falter in HO a few years ago when Intermountain offered the car with the boxcar red stripes on the sides but won't be going that route again. As you say just too rare and in some cases the paint didn't last all that long on the railroad.

Rob.

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

michael bishop wrote:
I think (a dangerous thing for me do anymore) that I read somewhere
that PFE had some silver or aluminum ice bunker reefers. Is this
correct, or am I getting my facts mixed up. Thanks for any help.
Yessir. They built exactly two aluminum body cars at a time
when the PFE car fleet was around 40,000 cars. Much as I like PFE and
many PFE model cars as I have, I don't have one of them--they are just
too rare. But hey, model them both if you like.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
 

I know this list is not much interested in RTR but my original premise still holds... a standard gauge RTR version of the car would outsell the HOn3 one given the same quality level, etc.. even if Blackstone isn't the one to do it. - Charlie Vlk
How about blackstone partners with someone else who is in primarily in HO to help defray the cost of tooling and spread sales over both HOn3 and HO. Perhaps Intermountain, similar to what they do with Tichy kits.

By the way I have one of the PSC kit for these, and also Richard's fine article to build it with. Maybe that should be next on my to build list.

Ned Carey


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis S. wrote:
I'd also give building a new center sill for a class X car a shot, starting with a frameless model, since the wide frame added to the narrow gauge conversions looks like more trouble than it's worth. If anyone goes this route, before casting covetous eyes on other tankcar kit underframes, be aware that the class X cars predate the general adoption of 12" cannel for center sills, and the prototype used 15" channels. This is the car MDC tried to model years ago, but somehow managed to double the depth of this already hevier than normal sill.
Yup. I always assumed MDC made the frame so darn big so they could weight the car thereby. There was certainly no molding need for so big a part.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

michael bishop wrote:
I think (a dangerous thing for me do anymore) that I read somewhere that PFE had some silver or aluminum ice bunker reefers. Is this correct, or am I getting my facts mixed up. Thanks for any help.
Yessir. They built exactly two aluminum body cars at a time when the PFE car fleet was around 40,000 cars. Much as I like PFE and many PFE model cars as I have, I don't have one of them--they are just too rare. But hey, model them both if you like.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Charlie Vlk
 

Dennis is correct.... and I agree with him about manufacturers "sticking to their knitting"..... I am a great believer that a company should figure out what they are good at and not try to be everthing to everyone.

I was not aware of the Precision Scale plastic kit for either car, in spite of my exposure to Des Plaines Hobbies.
I might have had my N Scale googles on if there were such kits in the store; however, I think I would have seen them if they had been in stock in the last few years. Precision Scale is somewhat under-represented in the retail shops?

I am not sure what the size of the Narrow Gauge market is / will be. The current lack of readily available track components (although I hear this is going to be rectified soon) certainly rules out any explosive growth to parallel the On30 one or even G Gauge in this RTR heavy world.

I know this list is not much interested in RTR but my original premise still holds... a standard gauge RTR version of the car would outsell the HOn3 one given the same quality level, etc.. even if Blackstone isn't the one to do it.

Charlie Vlk


Railroad Prototype Modelers-Valley Forge 2010

prr282
 

Railroad Prototype Modelers-Valley Forge 2010 will be held on March 26-28, 2010. The location is the Desmond Hotel and Conference Center in Malvern, PA. This is the same great location as our previous 3 Meets. Visit our web site for all the information----www.phillynmra.org/rpmmeet.html

Paul Backenstose


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

Blackstone would be smart to tool a standard gauge cast steel sideframe truck and offer their car to the general HO market.
My guess is that the car would outsell the narrow gauge version. Anyone looked into how many paint schemes/roadnames the
prototype would be good for??
Charlie Vlk

One, Union Tank Line.

I'm going to disagree with Charlie here. Model railroad manufacturers tend to establish themselves in a niche, then continue to market to that niche. Doing ONE kit that is aimed at a different market risks having a "one trick pony" that no one knows about, so doesn't sell. Don't be surprised if the suggestion to do a standard gauge version is met with stony silence. If they do it, what will they follow it with? I don't think a standard gauge version of Rio Grande 3000 series boxcar is going to sell very well.

Case in point, how many here are aware that Precision Scale Company has made this same kit in both narrow gauge AND standard gauge for about the last dozen or so years. They are currently in stock at Walthers now; Freight Car Kit -- UTLX Frameless Tank Car Plastic Kit, #585-10611 with plastic details, less trucks for $22.50, #585-10612 w/Brass Details, Less Trucks for $24.50. How many have ever seen one? I haven't.

And apparently Jon Cagle of SC&F makes a resin kit for this car, although I don't see them on his web site.

No the best I'm hoping for is that the narrow gauge version is well detailed, with robust walkways and steps that won't fall off, and nice paint and lettering. I'm perfectly capable of changing the trucks myself, and perfectly willing to use the stock number from a narrow gauge car especially if they do some cars in the pre 1947 numbers, since they were taken at random from the standard gauge series.

I'd also give building a new center sill for a class X car a shot, starting with a frameless model, since the wide frame added to the narrow gauge conversions looks like more trouble than it's worth. If anyone goes this route, before casting covetous eyes on other tankcar kit underframes, be aware that the class X cars predate the general adoption of 12" cannel for center sills, and the prototype used 15" channels. This is the car MDC tried to model years ago, but somehow managed to double the depth of this already hevier than normal sill.

Dennis


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

michael bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

I think (a dangerous thing for me do anymore) that I read somewhere that PFE had some silver or aluminum ice bunker reefers. Is this correct, or am I getting my facts mixed up. Thanks for any help.
 
Michael Bishop


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dick Harley wrote:
It's hard enough to sort out and document the "official" painting and lettering schemes that PFE created. These occasional 'errors' make the job interesting, but more time consuming and sometimes frustrating. My interest is in providing correct information to manufacturers and modelers . . .
Absolutely right. Modelers need to know the standard paint schemes. Oddball color combinations on a few PFE reefers is no more meaningful than those examples of various road names stenciled with the letters out of order.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Dick Harley
 

On Tue Sep 22, 2009 Tim O'Connor pointed to some photos in Rock Island and PRR books.

Well geesh, the weird photos always show up in books I do not have and would not think to look in. Thanks very much for the references, Tim. I'll try to track them down. It will be interesting to see when and where those cars were painted. Other inputs are certainly welcome.

And as Tony wrote, there clearly are a few cars that get painted something other than what the plans say. I know it's true for UP and PFE, and likely for all other railroads too.

It's hard enough to sort out and document the "official" painting and lettering schemes that PFE created. These occasional 'errors' make the job interesting, but more time consuming and sometimes frustrating. My interest is in providing correct information to manufacturers and modelers so that they don't go and produce a dozen road numbers with a painting & lettering scheme that is at best one- of-a-kind - like maybe InterMountain does. There are so many prototype PFE painting & lettering schemes possible that it really frustrates me to see folks do bogus schemes.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Modeling UTLX type X and V (was Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars)

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

As has been noted here before, Precision Scale offers a plastic kit for the UTLX 6500 gallon type V in both HO and HON3. The HO kit does need some detail changes beyond simply 5' wheelbase trucks to be correct (following Richard's article), but it is a nice starting place. Precision Scale also offers an HON3 "narrow frame" version of this tank car, as apparently, so will Blackstone. Having recently ordered one of these, I compared it to the frameless car. Importantly, Precision has changed out the casting for the bottom sheet of the tank, so that the heavy castings for the type V are not present, making this tank appropriate for a car with a frame. The frame, while not appropriate for a Type X car, could serve as a starting point, with the coupler pockets and bolsters being useful. All in all, the PSC "narrow frame" car looks like an excellent point for a kitbash of the UTLX type X.


Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D., Professor of Pathobiology
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
Auburn University, AL 36849-5525
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
************************************************************************ *********
"Evolution is a fact, get used to it"


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Charlie Vlk
 

Blackstone would be smart to tool a standard gauge cast steel sideframe truck and offer their car to the general HO market.
My guess is that the car would outsell the narrow gauge version. Anyone looked into how many paint schemes/roadnames the
prototype would be good for??
Charlie Vlk