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Re: Modeling UTLX type X and V (was Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
If I find a better way to model one or two of these cars, I'll turn the brass tank into a storage tank at a bulk oil dealer, which is where I found the Van Dyke car I can't locate the photos of. That car didn't have its walkways, either.
My exact strategy with Tichy tank car bodies <g>. The frames can be used for other tanks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Commonwealth steel combined end frame and body bolster castings

Robert kirkham
 

I'm working on a model of CPR 389000-389049 series tank cars. These were built in 1923 and carried 12,500 gallons. They have a lot of similarities to the Athearn single dome tank, although I'm only harvesting parts from that model for my project. I haven't figured out who the builder was yet.

In any event, I lack sufficient good photos of the body bolster/saddle/end frame area of the car and am struggling to model something credible while peering in the dark. An article in Canadian Railway and Marine World indicates that the cars were equipped with Commonwealth cast steel combined end frame and body bolster castings. These parts included the side sills and tank saddle.

So, I am wondering if anyone might have a clue where to find photos or drawings of the castings. It may be that it was a custom casting and not a marketed product, but I thought I would ask.

Rob Kirkham


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars - now modeling PSC cars

Joseph
 

The truck is/was a bowser single spring PRR caboose truck- looks like the vaunted "bettendorf" with only one spring under the bolster. I gound out the single spring, then glued in some KD#78 knuckle springs=good nuff.
Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Burgess" <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:06 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars - now modeling PSC cars


Ned wrote:
Richard suggested modifying the springs on a Bowser PRR caboose
truck to get an appropriate 5' truck. Does Tahoe Model Works do
any 5' trucks?
No, Tahoe doesn't have a 5' wheelbase truck. I used whatever trucks Richard
suggested in his article (as mentioned in another e-mail, I thought I used
Eastern Car Works trucks but I don't have the article anymore). I cut coil
springs from some old Athearn trucks Richard gave me (I never owned any
Athearn cars and thus didn't have them for cannibalizing). After salvaging a
pair of springs, I used them as a master and cast resin copies for all of
the trucks. The existing single coil spring was milled out using a special
jig to hold the truck side frames.

BTW, there was an article on these cars in the July/August 1978 issue of the
Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette. The article covers by the Van Dyke cars
and the narrow framed cars and gives original numbers, dates, etc. The
author (Robert Sloan) states "These [the Van Dyke cars] had two types of
truck bolsters and were rebuilt by applying pads for narrow gauge slide
bearings with special cast steel ASF trucks."....just as Dennis suggested.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com



------------------------------------

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Re: Modeling UTLX type X and V (was Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars)

Bruce Smith
 

Dennis asked:
Since you and Jack have both looked at these cars, what do you guys think about the
quality? Are the tank moldings decent, and do the fit together well? What do you
think about the walkway? Fragile?
The castings are nicely detailed. The tanks are molded in 3 pieces, a bottom and 2
side/top pieces. This results in a seam down the top of the car, which is made
worse by the rather uneven casting edges and drift angles. A 4th tank piece is
inserted in the bottom to help get the bottom and side pieces aligned. Filing and
filling the seams will result in an acceptable result, although working around the
rivets where the tank sections joined can be a challenge. These are definitely NOT
beginner kits<G>. The walkways are styrene and look relatively robust, although like
most listers with these kits I have yet to actually complete one <G>... I do have
one tank assembled and waiting putty. As has been noted before, you can buy these
cars with plastic or brass details... go with the brass! These include PSC's tank
car railing stanchions and the unique UTLX sill steps.

To summarize, it would be wonderful to have a 21st century tank casting for these
cars, but these kits are certainly very viable alternatives to give a rather unusual
car (the type V) and the narrow frame car, with almost the same parts is a good
place to start the more common type X cars...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Modeling UTLX type X and V (was Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars)

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks,

As has been noted here before, Precision Scale offers a plastic kit
for the UTLX 6500 gallon type V in both HO and HON3. The HO kit does
need some detail changes beyond simply 5' wheelbase trucks to be
correct (following Richard's article), but it is a nice starting
place. Precision Scale also offers an HON3 "narrow frame" version of
this tank car, as apparently, so will Blackstone...
Bruce,

You posted while I was typing before. I'll keep your comment about the "narrow frame" car being a better starting point for a standard gauge class X car in mind.

Since you and Jack have both looked at these cars, what do you guys think about the quality? Are the tank moldings decent, and do the fit together well? What do you think about the walkway? Fragile?

Downstairs I till have a brass tank PSC imported years ago, and their castings for the tank saddles / bolsters, but it needs walkways, and every time I think I should work on it, I seem to find something else to do. If I find a better way to model one or two of these cars, I'll turn the brass tank into a storage tank at a bulk oil dealer, which is where I found the Van Dyke car I can't locate the photos of. That car didn't have its walkways, either.

Dennis


Re: IM flat cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Bruce (and Brian Carlson, off list).

SGL

On Wed, September 23, 2009 8:57 pm, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Hi,

I've been away for a while, close to a month. When I left, the new IM flat cars
were the subject of
heavy discussion, mostly related to the excessive thickness of the applied deck.
Mine arrived, and
I can see what it was all about. So, my question is, can someone summarize what the
best/simplest/most effective/least hassle solution was or is? There was discussion
of removing the
deck and sanding it thinner, and someone was mooting a replacement deck of the right
thickness.
What is effective?
Schuyler,

I posted that removing the deck and the tape holding it on and sanding it worked great.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL




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Re: IM flat cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Wed, September 23, 2009 8:57 pm, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Hi,

I've been away for a while, close to a month. When I left, the new IM flat cars
were the subject of
heavy discussion, mostly related to the excessive thickness of the applied deck.
Mine arrived, and
I can see what it was all about. So, my question is, can someone summarize what the
best/simplest/most effective/least hassle solution was or is? There was discussion
of removing the
deck and sanding it thinner, and someone was mooting a replacement deck of the right
thickness.
What is effective?
Schuyler,

I posted that removing the deck and the tape holding it on and sanding it worked great.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


IM flat cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi,

I've been away for a while, close to a month. When I left, the new IM flat cars were the subject of
heavy discussion, mostly related to the excessive thickness of the applied deck. Mine arrived, and
I can see what it was all about. So, my question is, can someone summarize what the
best/simplest/most effective/least hassle solution was or is? There was discussion of removing the
deck and sanding it thinner, and someone was mooting a replacement deck of the right thickness.
What is effective?

My efforts with the search function were not particularly useful

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!







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Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

David Sieber
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:

. . . How many here are aware that Precision Scale Company has made this same kit in both narrow gauge AND standard gauge for about the last dozen or so years. They are currently in stock at Walthers now; Freight Car Kit -- UTLX Frameless Tank Car Plastic Kit, #585-10611 with plastic details, less trucks for $22.50, #585-10612 w/Brass Details, Less Trucks for $24.50. How many have ever seen one? I haven't . . . Dennis
Unfortunately, those are UTL class V frameless tank cars, when what we could really use in standard guage are the slightly more modern class X frame tank cars. On Precision Scale's website, only those two frameless tank cars in HO (and equivalent frameless HOn3 kits) are shown as currently available - but the "representative photo" for all is a class X tank car with steel frame. In a Classic Freight Car photo book, there's a 1969 photo of UTLX 57801 last shopped by Union Tank Car Co in 11-55; I also have a 1969 Jim Sands photo of UTLX 58041 and 58008. These are in-service photos in normal freight interchange, all with AB brakes and AAR cast steel trucks. There's also your photo of UTLX 11204 lettered for Procor Limited, with AB brakes and archbar trucks, reweighed 10-41. Clearly, some class X cars had extraordinary longevity in the Union Tank Car fleet.

I strongly agree with Charlie Vlk, that "Blackstone would be smart to tool a standard gauge cast steel sideframe truck and offer their car to the general HO market. My guess is that the car would outsell the narrow gauge version." As you note, Blackstone is a successful HOn3 niche firm that might be hesitant to do a one-time-only standard guage car; however, as has been suggested, perhaps in partnership with an established HO standard guage freight car manufacturer?

Respectfully,
Dave Sieber
Reno NV


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars - now modeling PSC cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ned Carey wrote:
I pulled out Richard Hendrickson's article on the PSC cars. I have seen UTLX cars of this era that had what looks like a spring sticking out perpendicular from the draft gear. Richard mentions this in the article and refers to it as Cardwell draft gear.
I don't see this in some of the recent photos posted to the group but it shows clearly in some of the photos from my own collection. It occurs to me that perhaps it was only on one side.
As usual, RIchard is right. And those springs were on both sides. You can see this in several Cyc entries over the years.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars - now modeling PSC cars

Jack Burgess
 

Ned wrote:
Richard suggested modifying the springs on a Bowser PRR caboose
truck to get an appropriate 5' truck. Does Tahoe Model Works do
any 5' trucks?
No, Tahoe doesn't have a 5' wheelbase truck. I used whatever trucks Richard
suggested in his article (as mentioned in another e-mail, I thought I used
Eastern Car Works trucks but I don't have the article anymore). I cut coil
springs from some old Athearn trucks Richard gave me (I never owned any
Athearn cars and thus didn't have them for cannibalizing). After salvaging a
pair of springs, I used them as a master and cast resin copies for all of
the trucks. The existing single coil spring was milled out using a special
jig to hold the truck side frames.

BTW, there was an article on these cars in the July/August 1978 issue of the
Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette. The article covers by the Van Dyke cars
and the narrow framed cars and gives original numbers, dates, etc. The
author (Robert Sloan) states "These [the Van Dyke cars] had two types of
truck bolsters and were rebuilt by applying pads for narrow gauge slide
bearings with special cast steel ASF trucks."....just as Dennis suggested.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars - now modeling PSC cars

Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
 

I pulled out Richard Hendrickson's article on the PSC cars. I have seen UTLX cars of this era that had what looks like a spring sticking out perpendicular from the draft gear. Richard mentions this in the article and refers to it as Cardwell draft gear.

I don't see this in some of the recent photos posted to the group but it shows clearly in some of the photos from my own collection. It occurs to me that perhaps it was only on one side. Or perhaps this was this something added later.

Can anyone supply more info?

Richard suggested modifying the springs on a Bowser PRR caboose truck to get an appropriate 5' truck. Does Tahoe Model Works do any 5' trucks?

Thank you,

Ned Carey


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

I have one, too. It sits in my display case with my out-of-era billboard reefers. I suspect that my unbuilt PSC tank car will end up there as well, if it ever gets built.
Last week we toured the studio of the late artist Alan Houser outside of Santa Fe. On display is a large (7' high) block of unworked stone. The guide said words to the effect that "This block was standing in the artist's studio at the time of his death. Concealed within it remains the graceful and beautiful work of art the artist envisioned. We display it to honor that vision."

Both my wife (a weaver) and I had the same thought - what a great way to deal with our respective stashes of unfinished work. But we both thought we'd need much bigger burial plots.

Tom Madden


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Richard Townsend
 

I have one, too.? It sits in my display case with my out-of-era billboard reefers.? I suspect that my unbuilt PSC tank car will end up there as well, if it ever gets built.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@verizon.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 23, 2009 3:56 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: PFE reefer colour schemes






I confess that I have one with the curved corners and script Pacific Fruit
Express. It's such a beautiful design. I knew when I bought it that it was a
one-off and only lasted a very, very short time and that was outside my era.
Out of 35 PFE reefers, it's the only oddball.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I confess that I have one with the curved corners and script Pacific Fruit
Express. It's such a beautiful design. I knew when I bought it that it was a
one-off and only lasted a very, very short time and that was outside my era.
Out of 35 PFE reefers, it's the only oddball.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jack Burgess
 

Jim admitted:
I have had HO versions of both the frameless and narrow frame
versions since
the mid '90s. And like too many of my purchases, neither one is
finished but
both have been started. I even have Wabash Custom decals for the frameless
car.
That makes me feel better! I bought six of the frameless PSC kits after
Richard's article came out, got them started, but got hung up on modifying
the Eastern Car Works (?) trucks by replacing the single coil springs with a
pair of springs. I finally finished them last year and all six are in
service on the layout. (A majority of tank cars on the prototype YVRR were
6,000 gallon UTLX Van Dykes.)

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Dennis S. wrote
-----
Case in point, how many here are aware that Precision Scale Company has made
this same kit in both narrow gauge AND standard gauge for about the last
dozen or so years. They are currently in stock at Walthers now; Freight Car
Kit -- UTLX Frameless Tank Car Plastic Kit, #585-10611 with plastic details,
less trucks for $22.50, #585-10612 w/Brass Details, Less Trucks for $24.50.
How many have ever seen one? I haven't.
------
I have had HO versions of both the frameless and narrow frame versions since
the mid '90s. And like too many of my purchases, neither one is finished but
both have been started. I even have Wabash Custom decals for the frameless
car.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

rob lmclear wrote:
Exactly right Tony, I have stayed away from them as well it's also why I haven't modelled or bought a car with the rounded painted sides or the car with the script lettering, I did falter in HO a few years ago when Intermountain offered the car with the boxcar red stripes on the sides but won't be going that route again. As you say just too rare and in some cases the paint didn't last all that long on the railroad.
Yes, the curved corner script is even worse--just ONE car--and like the stripe scheme, didn't last very long. But many modelers cannot resist this kind of stuff.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PFE reefer colour schemes

roblmclear <rob.mclear2@...>
 

Exactly right Tony, I have stayed away from them as well it's also why I haven't modelled or bought a car with the rounded painted sides or the car with the script lettering, I did falter in HO a few years ago when Intermountain offered the car with the boxcar red stripes on the sides but won't be going that route again. As you say just too rare and in some cases the paint didn't last all that long on the railroad.

Rob.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

michael bishop wrote:
I think (a dangerous thing for me do anymore) that I read somewhere
that PFE had some silver or aluminum ice bunker reefers. Is this
correct, or am I getting my facts mixed up. Thanks for any help.
Yessir. They built exactly two aluminum body cars at a time
when the PFE car fleet was around 40,000 cars. Much as I like PFE and
many PFE model cars as I have, I don't have one of them--they are just
too rare. But hey, model them both if you like.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Blackstone Models UTLX tank cars

Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
 

I know this list is not much interested in RTR but my original premise still holds... a standard gauge RTR version of the car would outsell the HOn3 one given the same quality level, etc.. even if Blackstone isn't the one to do it. - Charlie Vlk
How about blackstone partners with someone else who is in primarily in HO to help defray the cost of tooling and spread sales over both HOn3 and HO. Perhaps Intermountain, similar to what they do with Tichy kits.

By the way I have one of the PSC kit for these, and also Richard's fine article to build it with. Maybe that should be next on my to build list.

Ned Carey

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