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Re: Commonwealth steel combined end frame and body bolster castings
Robert kirkham
Thanks Dennis, but while the Royalite car drawings do offer some help, they also differ quite a bit from the CPR cars I'm modelling. The CPR cars had a single cast part that served as bolster and saddle for the tank, not separate pieces. Also, the end sills have a comparatively massive cast in place draft gear box. I can go a far distance working from photos, but would like to see something more detailed if possible.
Rob Kirkham -------------------------------------------------- From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:35 AM To: <STMFC@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: Commonwealth steel combined end frame and body bolster castings --- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:Rob,
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Re: Commonwealth steel combined end frame and body bolster castings
Robert kirkham
I thought I'd try to do a little more research on this subject by searching Google books. There one finds this phrase in Railway Age, September 3, 1927, p.450. Unfortunately Google only shows the header of the page and not the comment in which the phrase is used citing copyright issues, so it is difficult to guage its usefulness.
According to the Google search, the phrase is repeated in a 1930 volume of Railway Age - but Google won't even let me see the header to pick up a month or page number. There is another mystifying reference to 1925 Railway Age, but here Google won't even summarise the content stating it is "restricted". Bizarre! Anyway, since 1923 is the date the car I'm modelling was built, I'd like to have a look at these references - whether they turn out to be a dead end or not.... Since the local libraries collection of Railway Age only goes back to 1929, I'm wondering if anyone knows an effective way to follow these leads from my home here in Vancouver. Rob Kirkham
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1900 Stuyvesant Docks Yard Photo - New Orleans
Lee Gautreaux
I just had to cross post this from the LRMRG list. It is a great photo of an IC steam switcher with lots of neat freight cars in the background. Along with lots of ICRR cars, I see the end of a GH&SA car as well. Thanks to Tony Howe for posting.
Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/ Guys, There's a great early photo of Illinois Central's Stuyvesant Docks Yard in New Orleans with an 0-6-0 and crew on Shorpy at http://www.shorpy.com/node/6855?size=_original Tony Howe
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Foundry Symbol : Who used X in Shield??
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
Does anyone recognize the 1940's era foundry symbol shown in the second column here:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sGS-Stt46zN1L7Tvw_-2PdhdeVoREQZ7ha34WLaKa8DediwK6Rm10H9byN_B5_yWfP2ElDAb8sj__IpM7fFluFIhZ1lbIeE_3-ib/Unknown%20Foundry%20Symbols.doc It is an X in a shield. I have a foundry association handbook but it doesn't list the foundry using this symbol. Perhaps you've seen in an ad in Railway Age, in a CBC, or on a truck frame or coupler? Thanks in advance, KL
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Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Carl J. Marsico wrote:
UP actually hurt their protectable interest (if any) in the CNW, SP, and DRGW schemes by "patching" the motive power from these roads, which I'd say is rebuttable evidence of an intent to abandon these trademarks.Our attorney explained to me that this is called "constructive abandonment," meaning actively working to expunge a trademark, not merely abandoning it by ceasing to use it. It's an even harder abandonment to recover from, but that didn't inhibit UP's hired lawyers (they didn't use their in-house guys, who mostly rolled their eyes about this topic). We know how that turned out. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Class V tank car trucks
Charles Morrill
The recent thread on these cars mentioned the trucks used were 5' wheel base including the later cast sideframe replacements. There are a couple of photos of a tank car derailment in the book 'Rails to the Artesian Belt' by FA Schmidt. The tank cars are lettered for the Pioneer Oil & Refining Co. One of them, PNRX 104, appears to be a class V 6500 gal. tank car and clearly has Andrews type trucks. Would the Andrews trucks be 5' wheel base?
I used the Grandt Line On3 kit, San Juan Andrews trucks, and custom lettering for my standard gauge model of this car. It was several years ago, but I think it was a pretty simple conversion. Charlie
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Conductor Fraley’s Train Book, Sept-Oct, 1938
Wendye Ware
Hi Folks
I recently found 128 Union Pacific Freight Conductors' Train Books in the attic of the Laramie Depot, and earlier summarized the contents of Conductor Ferguson's Train Book, May-June, 1938. Herein is a summary report on UP Conductor Fraley's Train Book, September 12 to October 18, 1938. During this time, Conductor Fraley rode 43 trains between Laramie (MP 566) and Rawlins (MP 683), Wyoming, on the UP mainline. Twenty-two trains were westbound, and the remaining 21 were headed east. The trains consisted of a total of 2,648 cars, and Fraley listed the railroad name and number of 2,510 of them, in most cases recording the contents and destinations as well. Twenty-two trains were pulled by 4-6-6-4 engines in the 3900 series. Seventeen were led by 4-12-2s in the 9000 series. Two trains were headed by 2-8-2s, and the motive power was not listed for two others. On September 12, after leaving Rawlins and traveling 21 miles, eastbound engine 3916 overheated and was replaced by UP 3908. Fraley rode behind 3916 on three more occasions without incident. The longest train had 89 cars, the shortest 9; the average was about 62 cars. In total, 2648 cars were hauled, 1975 with loads, and 664 empty. Eastbound, 1367 cars were pulled, 1270 loaded, 97 empty. The longest train had 87 cars, the shortest 17, and the average was 65 cars. Westbound, there were 1281 cars, 705 with loads, 567 empty. The longest train was 89 cars, the shortest was 9, and the average was 58. Three entire westbound trains, of lengths 69, 72, and 78 cars, consisted entirely of empties. Eight westbound trains and one eastbound had more empties than loads. In these nine trains, 3 of which were entirely empty, there were 91 loads and 581 empties. Most of the empties were PFE reefers headed west. Fraley listed the ownership for 2510 cars. The most common eastbound cars were PFE reefers, followed by various types of UP cars. In decreasing order of frequency, ownership of the eastbound cars was: Most common eastbound cars, all types: Railroad, number of cars PFE 736 UP 277 MDT 38 CNW 35 NYC 24 CB&Q 22 UTLX 18 SLSF 17 SP 16 MILW 14 PRR 13 ART 8 NRC 8 (Northern Refrigerator Line) RI 8 URT 8 (URTX?) MC 7 MP 7 KCS 6 REx 6 (Railway Express) UCR 6 (Utah Coal) ATSF 5 MSCX 5 (Mather Stock Car Co.) WP 5 Others 78 Total 1367 Westbound ownership was as follows: Most common westbound cars, all types: Railroad, number of cars PFE 400 UP 256 NYC 41 UTL 36 (UTLX? If so, then UTLX = 38 cars) CB&Q 30 SP 29 MILW 29 PRR 24 GTW 16 WGL 14 (Initials hard to read; contents oil) RI 13 ATSF 13 CNW 12 SLSF 12 B&O 11 MDT 10 MP 9 WABASH 9 NP 9 WP 6 IC 6 NKP 6 URT 5 (URTX? If so, then URTX = 7) UCR 5 (Utah Coal) EJ&E 5 PM 5 SFRD 5 C&S 5 SOO 5 Others 117 Total 1143 Fraley listed the type of car (box, auto, reefer, etc.) for 587 cars. Many of the car types for those not identified could be inferred from the ownership (e.g., PFE = reefer), and a few hundred more were matched by comparison with a digital January ORER of box and auto cars. By these means, the number of cars with their type identified was brought to 2179. Among the box and auto cars, ownership was distributed as follows: Most common eastbound box and auto cars: Railroad, number of cars UP 139 NYC 20 CB&Q 19 SP 16 CNW 12 MILW 10 PRR 8 SLSF 8 RI 7 MC 6 WP 5 Others 40 Total 290 Most common westbound box and auto cars: Railroad, number of cars UP 152 NYC 37 CB&Q 29 SP 27 MILW 25 PRR 22 GTW 15 ATSF 13 RI 12 SLSF 11 B&O 9 CNW 9 NP 8 WABASH 8 NKP 6 WP 6 SOO 5 Others 59 Total 453 As time permits, I'll report on the contents of the cars. Best wishes, Larry Ostresh Laramie, Wyoming
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Superior hand brakes was:Re: GN 40' box car question
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
http://www.cnwhs.org/shopping/product_info.php?products_id=318
http://www.cnwhs.org/shopping/product_info.php?products_id=401 Above are two links to the CNWHS store. Having those hand brakes back in stock is great news! Clark Propst
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More Reefer help
roblmclear <rob.mclear2@...>
Hi to all
I have been busily painting a decorating my reefer fleet of recent times and for information model N scale. Thanks to everyone who replied to my PFE question which gleaned some information that I was not aware of that PFE/WP never had any steel cars, only wood, thanks George.. These I guess will now have to be repainted as well. My question is this, or should I say questions... I am trying to decorate some Swift Reefers in the pre all red scheme and have commissioned some decals to be made both with the all black lettering scheme and the 1948 scheme with the red/white swift logo on the right hand side of the car. I have managed also to pick up some Fine N Scale wooden truss rod reefer kits that look like with the addition of a new underframe could be made into a reasonable facsimilie of a 37' wooden Swift reefer. I don't know what the prototype was for this but with a scratchbuilt centre steel beam and exposes bracing they could be made to look close to the wooden Swift car. If Martin Loften or Richard Hendrickson (still overseas it seems) or anyone else is out there with knowledge of what I need to do to get them closer please get in touch. I do have the article printed in the Railmodel Journal in February 1993 and is the basis for my questions. My question is in a number of articles I have seen the paint scheme for both of the earlier cars is Reefer Yellow Sides with a Red roof and ends. Is the roof a red like a fire engine red or a more sedate boxcar red? Thanks for any help that you can give. Regards to all Rob McLear Brisbane Australia.
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Re: Wabash/Ann Arbor rebuilt box cars
buchwaldfam <duff@...>
That sounds about right for what I saw. I think it would be pretty simple to model. Just sand/file the corners of the side panels to an approximate 1" by 45 degree angle, and then glue the sides to the ends with the ends flush with the angle. Does anyone make 7/8 ends for double sheathed cars? Otherwise, it wouldn't be too hard to cut and paste some Tichy USRA DS ends.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Regards, Phil
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009
dh30973
--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
Apparently Andy wasn't too observant. As on the next aisle over from where he had his model was the work of several folks that included about a dozen UP Diesels. Granted that pailed with the numbers of other roads, but they were represented. NO N&W hoppers, that I saw. For those that missed the references to the photo albums of the greater than 1000 models that were on display Dave Hussey's "Official" Album: http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/wpm2009 Harry Wong's http://www.pbase.com/tracktime/wpm2009&page=all And Robby's Album: http://www.pbase.com/mrmrl/wpm2009 Unfortunately all the Pbase site is down due to some sort of power failure. Dave Hussey
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Re: GN 40' box car question
David Sieber
Elden, What you get for your $5 is three sprues as shown on the CNWHS Company Store website, each with one Superior brakewheel and one handbrake mechanism consisting of the HB gear housing, chain and connecting rod with bottom clevis to connect with the bell crank at the bottom of the car end. Thus, you get a total of three complete HB sets to equip three tall cars.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Regards, Dave Sieber, Reno NV
--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
Dave; Does "3 parts per package" mean 3 sprues containing a total of 3 wheels, all for $5, or one sprue for $5 that has 3 parts on it, one of which is a brake wheel? Thanks for this heads-up, also! Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
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Re: Wabash/Ann Arbor rebuilt box cars
Phil, in the photos I've seen, there is about a 1" difference
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
in width and indeed the side panel looks kind of bent over to fill the small gap. I don't think the model from Sunshine tries to mimic this, even though it wouldn't be difficult as long as the end was not as wide as the body. Tim O'Connor
Group, I just passed through a town called St. John, Michigan, and sitting behind the depot was one of the Wabash steel sided rebuilt cars. There was no number on it, naving been repainted in AA MOW black, however it was from a series which had 7/8 Murphy ends, rectangular panel roof, and four panels each side of the door. What I found interesting was the way they treated the joint between the ends and the side panels. Magazine photos I've seen make one think that the ends are the same width as the external dimensions of the sides; that they either built the ends out, or the overall width of the cars remained the same as the original DS wood sided cars that these were converted from. However, a visual inspection shows that the 7/8 ends remained at the original width, and the side panels were the width of a 1937 standard car. The difference in width was accomodated by having the side panels bend inward at what appeared to be an approximate 45 degree angle.
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Wabash/Ann Arbor rebuilt box cars
buchwaldfam <duff@...>
Group, I just passed through a town called St. John, Michigan, and sitting behind the depot was one of the Wabash steel sided rebuilt cars. There was no number on it, naving been repainted in AA MOW black, however it was from a series which had 7/8 Murphy ends, rectangular panel roof, and four panels each side of the door. What I found interesting was the way they treated the joint between the ends and the side panels. Magazine photos I've seen make one think that the ends are the same width as the external dimensions of the sides; that they either built the ends out, or the overall width of the cars remained the same as the original DS wood sided cars that these were converted from. However, a visual inspection shows that the 7/8 ends remained at the original width, and the side panels were the width of a 1937 standard car. The difference in width was accomodated by having the side panels bend inward at what appeared to be an approximate 45 degree angle.
Just a trivial point, but interesting to see, nonetheless! Regards, Phil Buchwald
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Sunshine L&N Boxcar kit # 85.1
gary laakso
Has anyone else found that the floor does not fit any of the dimensions of the body, that it just falls inside? The floor piece is shorter and much more narrow then the cavity it is suppose to fill. LOL, how can a 36 foot long boxcar have a 34 foot long floor casting? Has anyone added styrene to get the floor to fit as opposed to sink inside the body? I have not a floor so small before!
gary laakso south of Mike Brock vasa0vasa@...
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Waite Phillips Oil Company tank cars
rim_line <ehiser@...>
Folks:
Is anyone aware of any photos of Waite Phillips Oil Company tank cars (reporting marks WPHX) and dimensional data for the same? Help would be appreciated. Thanks, Eric Hiser Phoenix, AZ
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Re: GN 40' box car question
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Dave;
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Does "3 parts per package" mean 3 sprues containing a total of 3 wheels, all for $5, or one sprue for $5 that has 3 parts on it, one of which is a brake wheel? Thanks for this heads-up, also! Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of ealabhan0 Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:38 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: GN 40' box car question Gentlemen, The Superior handbrake wheel and mechanism detail set is available from the Chicago & North Western Historical Society, which first had Red Caboose do them for a special run of M&StL box cars (sold out). The Society still orders special runs of the Superior HB sprue for their Company Store, three sets for $5, shipping included. I ordered some a couple of months ago, and they are just beautiful. The CNWHS Company Store website is http://www.cnwhs.org/shopping/index.php <http://www.cnwhs.org/shopping/index.php> Hope this helps, Dave Sieber, Reno NV --- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote: Appears to be a Superior brake wheel. Red Caboose produced a separate detail parts package 8000-13 with this brake wheel and housing but I don't know if it's still available. Tim O'Connor At 9/25/2009 07:44 AM Friday, Matt Sugarman wrote: All, Could someone tell me what type of brake wheel is on the car on the bottom of page 38 of the four ways west GN freight car pictorial, vol 1 (GN 18598)??? And is it available in HO scale??? Thank you, Matt Sugerman, Ft. Worth, TX
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Tank car help
Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
I'm not much on tank cars. We're trying to find out what types of cars these were. They were purchased by the M&StL in the early 40s for weed sprayer service. Here's what Gene Green was able to provide. Any help of what to use for a model would be much appericated,
Clark Propst Mason City Iowa MOW # ORIG # =================== X-822 - WTKX 957 X-821 - RMX 167 X-820 - RMX 156 X-823 - WTKX 866 MOW # BLT X-822 - 3-17 X-821 - 4-17 X-820 - 6-16 X-823 - 3-17 MOW # AAR CLASS X-822 - TM II X-821 - TM III X-820 - TM II X-823 - TM II MOW # LT WT X-822 - 37,000 X-821 - 40,400 X-820 - 35,800 X-823 - 40,200 MOW # CAPY X-822 - 60,000 X-821 - 80,000 X-820 - 60,000 X-823 - 80,000 MOW # DOME X-822 - 255 gals. X-821 - 255 gals. X-820 - 164 gals. X-823 - 268 gals. MOW # GALS. X-822 - 8076 X-821 - 8217 X-820 - 8072 X-823 - 8094 MOW # MAX PRESS X-822 - 60 lbs. X-821 - 60 lbs. X-820 - 60 lbs. X-823 - 60 lbs. MOW # SAFETY X-822 - 25 lbs. X-821 - 25 lbs. X-820 - 25 lbs. X-823 - 25 lbs. MOW # TRUCKS X-822 - 5x9 Bettendorf X-821 - no info X-820 - 5x9 Bettendorf X-823 - no info MOW # LENGTH X-822 - no info X-821 - no info X-820 - no info X-823 - 35'-11" MOW # DRAFT GEAR X-822 - Cardwell G-11 X-821 - Cardwell G-25 X-820 - Cardwell G-11 X-823 - Cardwell G-11-A MOW # REC'D PEORIA X-822 - May 23, 1942 X-821 - May 24, 1942 X-820 - May 26, 1942 X-823 - June 4, 1942 MOW # REMARKS X-822 - Orig equipped w/Andrews 4.5x8 trucks X-821 - no info X-820 - Orig equipped w/Andrews 4.5x8 trucks X-823 - No truck change
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Re: GN 40' box car question
David Sieber
Gentlemen,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The Superior handbrake wheel and mechanism detail set is available from the Chicago & North Western Historical Society, which first had Red Caboose do them for a special run of M&StL box cars (sold out). The Society still orders special runs of the Superior HB sprue for their Company Store, three sets for $5, shipping included. I ordered some a couple of months ago, and they are just beautiful. The CNWHS Company Store website is http://www.cnwhs.org/shopping/index.php Hope this helps, Dave Sieber, Reno NV
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Appears to be a Superior brake wheel. Red Caboose produced a separate detail parts package 8000-13 with this brake wheel and housing but I don't know if it's still available. Tim O'Connor At 9/25/2009 07:44 AM Friday, Matt Sugarman wrote: All, Could someone tell me what type of brake wheel is on the car on the bottom of page 38 of the four ways west GN freight car pictorial, vol 1 (GN 18598)??? And is it available in HO scale??? Thank you, Matt Sugerman, Ft. Worth, TX
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Re: Western Prototype Modelers Meet 2009
Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
Jerry Glow wrote:
"We especially resented how they included our merged roads in their copyright scheme even though the heralds and names had for all purposes been retired although they did occasionally use them to keep their use of them "active" UP actually hurt their protectable interest (if any) in the CNW, SP, and DRGW schemes by "patching" the motive power from these roads, which I'd say is rebuttable evidence of an intent to abandon these trademarks. Although UP freight cars of predecessor roads dating back to the acquisitions of MP and WP are still out there in good numbers, this is clearly due to the logistics of repainting an entire freight car fleet vs. an intent to "honor the fallen flag", and could presumably be proven with internal documentation in regards to the guidelines to repaint freight cars, or depositions of supervisory staff familiar with these procedures. If anything, UP seemed to get "nostalgic" after they figured this out and started keeping a few token units and painting the SD70ACe's in the "Heritage" schemes, notably in "hybrid" paint schemes in what appears to be an attempt to protect multiple paint schemes of a road on a single unit. (This would have been a great topic to cover in law school during our Trademarks and Copyrights course.) I'll join the ranks of people having contempt for "the Borg" litigating what I consider to be frivolous claims against smaller companies that don't have the resources to defend these suits, and subsequently turning around and having their in-house attorney gripe when I filed a cross-claim against them for contribution in a Small Claims property damage suit (about $2,000.00 if I remember correctly) filed against both one of their employees driving a company truck and our client, driving a different vehicle. (The subsequent attorney assigned to the file was a very reasonable person, and I never had a problem with him) I also called them out once for trespassing on my property (company truck in driveway of our condo building), which at that time, was adjacent to their former CNW mainline. On the other hand, UP played a big role even in the pre-merger CNW that I grew up with and model, so a "boycott" of UP would be pretty much impossible for me unless I switched roads. CJM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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