My question is in a number of articles I have seen the paint scheme for both of the earlier cars is Reefer Yellow Sides with a Red roof and ends. Is the roof a red like a fire engine red or a more sedate boxcar red? Thanks for any help that you can give.

Regards to all
Rob McLear
Brisbane Australia.

=================================
The yellow-sided cars had box car red roofs.
Scott Pitzer

Hi Rob,

There is an excellent colour photo in book "Classic Freight Cars Volume 3" that provides a down-on view of a yard full of bright red Swift reefers. All the wood roofs are weathered. The original wood roof colour may have been bright red but after some use appears to be more like box car red, with a gray cast. Hope that helps.

I hope the sand storm dust didn't get on your fine models.

John Riddell

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

The Puget Sound message was one of his last. I seem to recall Seattle as a more specific
destination. I should hope he has a connection. His were some of the most enjoyable and
informative posts as regards "how it really was" that have appeared on this list.

This is what Larry wrote in November last year:

"Hi Fellow list buddies.
I writing this to let you know I will not be at Cocoa Beach this year. I am moving back to Seattle area By the end of Dec. I never
really liked Florida. We came down to look after my wife's Mother.
She died in Jan 2007 and my wife died in Oct 2007. I have a daughter
in Seattle. She wants me to move out there. I will still be on the
list but my health is going down hill and this will probably be my
last plane flight..
Thank you all"

I don't think Larry has posted since January. I agree with Schuyler. Larry had "been everywhere, done everything", but his posts were informative and to the point.

Tom Madden

The Puget Sound message was one of his last. I seem to recall Seattle as a more specific
destination. I should hope he has a connection. His were some of the most enjoyable and
informative posts as regards "how it really was" that have appeared on this list.

SGL

I believe that Larry Jackman moved to the Puget Sound area to be close
to family and support. I do not know whether or not he is still
internet-connected.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento

E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
Database version: 6.13350
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/

I believe that Larry Jackman moved to the Puget Sound area to be close to family and support. I do not know whether or not he is still internet-connected.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "StephanP" <sparachuk@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@> wrote:

Has anyone else found that the floor does not fit any of the dimensions of the body, that it just falls inside? The floor piece is shorter and much more narrow then the cavity it is suppose to fill. LOL, how can a 36 foot long boxcar have a 34 foot long floor casting? Has anyone added styrene to get the floor to fit as opposed to sink inside the body? I have not a floor so small before!


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock

Gary: Sorry to be so slow replying to your post but if you are going to try salvaging the floor casting, you will likely have to cut it in three pieces. That way you can ensure the bolsters will be in the right place. I've had floor castings too long before and I couldn't just cut them shorter. Your situation sounds familiar as well. You can't just add a foot to each. Good luck.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

Gary: I thought maybe the letter made more sense without the errors.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Has anyone else found that the floor does not fit any of the dimensions of the body, that it just falls inside? The floor piece is shorter and much more narrow then the cavity it is suppose to fill. LOL, how can a 36 foot long boxcar have a 34 foot long floor casting? Has anyone added styrene to get the floor to fit as opposed to sink inside the body? I have not a floor so small before!


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock

Gary: Sorry to be so slow replying to your post but if you are going to try salvaging the floor casting, you will likely have to cut it in three pieces. That way you can ensure the bolsters will be in the right place. I've had floor casting too long before and I couldn't just cut them shorter. Your situation sounds familiar as well. You can't just a foot to each. Good luck.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

Jerry, They are still available. My list is dated July 2009.
 
Rich

I wrote:

Tony, the first car on the third track from the left was once a
LaBelle Woodworking kit. I built one when I was about 15, and it's
the first time I've seen a photo of the model. Still have it, and
it's held up well all these years. Nice to see if it had a real
prototype and that it's pretty close.

I'm no expert on LaBelle, but every kit of theirs that I've
looked into was authentic.

Tony Thompson

That's been my impression. Geez, I was a little spaced out this afternoon (up late last night) when
I wrote that. Obviously, I meant it was the first time I'd seen a photo of the PROTOTYPE!

SGL






E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
Database version: 6.13350
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Tony, the first car on the third track from the left was once a LaBelle Woodworking kit. I built one when I was about 15, and it's the first time I've seen a photo of the model. Still have it, and it's held up well all these years. Nice to see if it had a real prototype and that it's pretty close.

I'm no expert on LaBelle, but every kit of theirs that I've looked into was authentic.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Tony, the first car on the third track from the left was once a LaBelle Woodworking kit. I built
one when I was about 15, and it's the first time I've seen a photo of the model. Still have it, and
it's held up well all these years. Nice to see if it had a real prototype and that it's pretty
close.

SGL

I just had to cross post this from the LRMRG list. It is a great photo of an IC steam switcher

with lots of neat freight

cars in the background. Along with lots of ICRR cars, I see the end of a GH&SA car as well. Thanks

to Tony Howe for

posting.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/ <http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/>

Guys,

There's a great early photo of Illinois Central's Stuyvesant Docks Yard in New
Orleans with an 0-6-0 and crew on Shorpy at

http://www.shorpy.com/node/6855?size=_original <http://www.shorpy.com/node/6855?size=_original>

Tony Howe

E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
Database version: 6.13350
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Thanks Dennis, but while the Royalite car drawings do offer some help, they also differ quite a bit from the CPR cars I'm modelling. The CPR cars had a single cast part that served as bolster and saddle for the tank, not separate pieces. Also, the end sills have a comparatively massive cast in place draft gear box. I can go a far distance working from photos, but would like to see something more detailed if possible.

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@mchsi.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:35 AM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Commonwealth steel combined end frame and body bolster castings

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

In any event, I lack sufficient good photos of the body bolster/saddle/end
frame area of the car and am struggling to model something credible while
peering in the dark. An article in Canadian Railway and Marine World
indicates that the cars were equipped with Commonwealth cast steel combined
end frame and body bolster castings. These parts included the side sills
and tank saddle.

Rob,

Take another look at that Royalite car on pages 268 - 269 of the 1922 Car Builder's Cyclopedia that we were discussing the other week... The car was built by CC&F in 1921, and the cross sectional views show it has a cast bolster. Not quite as good a photos, and you have to spend some time deciphering the hidden lines, but there's a lot of info in those drawings.

Dennis

I thought I'd try to do a little more research on this subject by searching Google books. There one finds this phrase in Railway Age, September 3, 1927, p.450. Unfortunately Google only shows the header of the page and not the comment in which the phrase is used citing copyright issues, so it is difficult to guage its usefulness.

According to the Google search, the phrase is repeated in a 1930 volume of Railway Age - but Google won't even let me see the header to pick up a month or page number.

There is another mystifying reference to 1925 Railway Age, but here Google won't even summarise the content stating it is "restricted".

Bizarre!

Anyway, since 1923 is the date the car I'm modelling was built, I'd like to have a look at these references - whether they turn out to be a dead end or not....

Since the local libraries collection of Railway Age only goes back to 1929, I'm wondering if anyone knows an effective way to follow these leads from my home here in Vancouver.

Rob Kirkham

I just had to cross post this from the LRMRG list. It is a great photo of an IC steam switcher with lots of neat freight cars in the background. Along with lots of ICRR cars, I see the end of a GH&SA car as well. Thanks to Tony Howe for posting.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/




Guys,

There's a great early photo of Illinois Central's Stuyvesant Docks Yard in New
Orleans with an 0-6-0 and crew on Shorpy at

http://www.shorpy.com/node/6855?size=_original

Tony Howe

Does anyone recognize the 1940's era foundry symbol shown in the second column here:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sGS-Stt46zN1L7Tvw_-2PdhdeVoREQZ7ha34WLaKa8DediwK6Rm10H9byN_B5_yWfP2ElDAb8sj__IpM7fFluFIhZ1lbIeE_3-ib/Unknown%20Foundry%20Symbols.doc

It is an X in a shield. I have a foundry association handbook but it doesn't list the foundry using this symbol. Perhaps you've seen in an ad in Railway Age, in a CBC, or on a truck frame or coupler?

Thanks in advance,
KL

Carl J. Marsico wrote:

UP actually hurt their protectable interest (if any) in the CNW, SP, and DRGW schemes by "patching" the motive power from these roads, which I'd say is rebuttable evidence of an intent to abandon these trademarks.

Our attorney explained to me that this is called "constructive abandonment," meaning actively working to expunge a trademark, not merely abandoning it by ceasing to use it. It's an even harder abandonment to recover from, but that didn't inhibit UP's hired lawyers (they didn't use their in-house guys, who mostly rolled their eyes about this topic). We know how that turned out.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

The recent thread on these cars mentioned the trucks used were 5' wheel base including the later cast sideframe replacements. There are a couple of photos of a tank car derailment in the book 'Rails to the Artesian Belt' by FA Schmidt. The tank cars are lettered for the Pioneer Oil & Refining Co. One of them, PNRX 104, appears to be a class V 6500 gal. tank car and clearly has Andrews type trucks. Would the Andrews trucks be 5' wheel base?

I used the Grandt Line On3 kit, San Juan Andrews trucks, and custom lettering for my standard gauge model of this car. It was several years ago, but I think it was a pretty simple conversion.
Charlie

Hi Folks

I recently found 128 Union Pacific Freight Conductors' Train Books in the attic of the Laramie Depot, and earlier summarized the contents of Conductor Ferguson's Train Book, May-June, 1938.

Herein is a summary report on UP Conductor Fraley's Train Book, September 12 to October 18, 1938. During this time, Conductor Fraley rode 43 trains between Laramie (MP 566) and Rawlins (MP 683), Wyoming, on the UP mainline. Twenty-two trains were westbound, and the remaining 21 were headed east. The trains consisted of a total of 2,648 cars, and Fraley listed the railroad name and number of 2,510 of them, in most cases recording the contents and destinations as well.

Twenty-two trains were pulled by 4-6-6-4 engines in the 3900 series. Seventeen were led by 4-12-2s in the 9000 series. Two trains were headed by 2-8-2s, and the motive power was not listed for two others. On September 12, after leaving Rawlins and traveling 21 miles, eastbound engine 3916 overheated and was replaced by UP 3908. Fraley rode behind 3916 on three more occasions without incident.

The longest train had 89 cars, the shortest 9; the average was about 62 cars. In total, 2648 cars were hauled, 1975 with loads, and 664 empty. Eastbound, 1367 cars were pulled, 1270 loaded, 97 empty. The longest train had 87 cars, the shortest 17, and the average was 65 cars. Westbound, there were 1281 cars, 705 with loads, 567 empty. The longest train was 89 cars, the shortest was 9, and the average was 58. Three entire westbound trains, of lengths 69, 72, and 78 cars, consisted entirely of empties. Eight westbound trains and one eastbound had more empties than loads. In these nine trains, 3 of which were entirely empty, there were 91 loads and 581 empties. Most of the empties were PFE reefers headed west.

Fraley listed the ownership for 2510 cars. The most common eastbound cars were PFE reefers, followed by various types of UP cars. In decreasing order of frequency, ownership of the eastbound cars was:

Most common eastbound cars, all types:
Railroad, number of cars
PFE 736
UP 277
MDT 38
CNW 35
NYC 24
CB&Q 22
UTLX 18
SLSF 17
SP 16
MILW 14
PRR 13
ART 8
NRC 8 (Northern Refrigerator Line)
RI 8
URT 8 (URTX?)
MC 7
MP 7
KCS 6
REx 6 (Railway Express)
UCR 6 (Utah Coal)
ATSF 5
MSCX 5 (Mather Stock Car Co.)
WP 5
Others 78
Total 1367

Westbound ownership was as follows:

Most common westbound cars, all types:
Railroad, number of cars
PFE 400
UP 256
NYC 41
UTL 36 (UTLX? If so, then UTLX = 38 cars)
CB&Q 30
SP 29
MILW 29
PRR 24
GTW 16
WGL 14 (Initials hard to read; contents oil)
RI 13
ATSF 13
CNW 12
SLSF 12
B&O 11
MDT 10
MP 9
WABASH 9
NP 9
WP 6
IC 6
NKP 6
URT 5 (URTX? If so, then URTX = 7)
UCR 5 (Utah Coal)
EJ&E 5
PM 5
SFRD 5
C&S 5
SOO 5
Others 117
Total 1143

Fraley listed the type of car (box, auto, reefer, etc.) for 587 cars. Many of the car types for those not identified could be inferred from the ownership (e.g., PFE = reefer), and a few hundred more were matched by comparison with a digital January ORER of box and auto cars. By these means, the number of cars with their type identified was brought to 2179.

Among the box and auto cars, ownership was distributed as follows:

Most common eastbound box and auto cars:
Railroad, number of cars
UP 139
NYC 20
CB&Q 19
SP 16
CNW 12
MILW 10
PRR 8
SLSF 8
RI 7
MC 6
WP 5
Others 40
Total 290


Most common westbound box and auto cars:
Railroad, number of cars
UP 152
NYC 37
CB&Q 29
SP 27
MILW 25
PRR 22
GTW 15
ATSF 13
RI 12
SLSF 11
B&O 9
CNW 9
NP 8
WABASH 8
NKP 6
WP 6
SOO 5
Others 59
Total 453

As time permits, I'll report on the contents of the cars.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

http://www.cnwhs.org/shopping/product_info.php?products_id=318

http://www.cnwhs.org/shopping/product_info.php?products_id=401


Above are two links to the CNWHS store. Having those hand brakes back in stock is great news!
Clark Propst

Hi to all

I have been busily painting a decorating my reefer fleet of recent times and for information model N scale. Thanks to everyone who replied to my PFE question which gleaned some information that I was not aware of that PFE/WP never had any steel cars, only wood, thanks George.. These I guess will now have to be repainted as well. My question is this, or should I say questions...

I am trying to decorate some Swift Reefers in the pre all red scheme and have commissioned some decals to be made both with the all black lettering scheme and the 1948 scheme with the red/white swift logo on the right hand side of the car. I have managed also to pick up some Fine N Scale wooden truss rod reefer kits that look like with the addition of a new underframe could be made into a reasonable facsimilie of a 37' wooden Swift reefer. I don't know what the prototype was for this but with a scratchbuilt centre steel beam and exposes bracing they could be made to look close to the wooden Swift car. If Martin Loften or Richard Hendrickson (still overseas it seems) or anyone else is out there with knowledge of what I need to do to get them closer please get in touch. I do have the article printed in the Railmodel Journal in February 1993 and is the basis for my questions.

My question is in a number of articles I have seen the paint scheme for both of the earlier cars is Reefer Yellow Sides with a Red roof and ends. Is the roof a red like a fire engine red or a more sedate boxcar red? Thanks for any help that you can give.

Regards to all
Rob McLear
Brisbane Australia.