Date   

FW: Re: Kadee NYC Hoppers Announced

Brian Carlson
 

Not sure what Bill wants, but I want the alternate standard side car for
Erie, NKP C&O.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
soolinehistory
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kadee NYC Hoppers Announced



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Could someone please wake me when a manufacturer offers the most common
version of the offset twin. InterMountain, Rapido, Tahoe, Athearn,
Branchline, Walther Proto 2000, is ANYONE listening?

Bill Welch
So, Bill, what's the most common version of the offset twin?

Dennis


Re: ACC Applicators

Stokes John
 

Denny,

Thanks for taking the time to be detailed and explicit on your techniques. This kind of information and experience is invaluable and I for one appreciate the tips and will put your method to good use.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: danspach@macnexus.org
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 09:55:32 -0700
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ACC Applicators





















This is a copy of my reply to the same inquiry made recently on the

Passenger Car List:



Three lessons from life about the useful application of ACC from tubes:



1) When puncturing the tube opening, avoid any inadvertent squeezing

of the tube so that the contents are not under pressure to pour out.



2) *Never (ever!) allow these tubes to rest in any other position but

UPRIGHT (I keep square styrofoam scraps with V-shaped cuts in the

middle designed to hold these tubes)*.



These simple two directives above will result of having a tube of ACC

that- a) can last usable for months on end; and b) has a tip free

of any clogging.



3) Do not apply glue directly from tube, but only into a tiny

intermediate puddle (Westerfield technique) from which actual

application is made by needle or similar. Even then, let the glue flow

from the tip without squeezing the tube except perhaps with

imperceptible pressure at the very bottom.



Instead of glass for puddling, I use small squares of aluminum foil

reinforced by folding the edges. I puddle the very tiniest drop, and

I use steel sewing needle applicators in holders (superior!), rather

than pins. I keep an old razor blade handy to constantly "peel" off

any dried ACC on the applicator tip.



I purchase Asian-produced ACC tubes in bulk at flea markets for about

@ $0.15, and have been doing so for some years. Occasionally, I get a

dry tube, or a tube of ACC that sets so fast one does not have time to

work it, but on balance this stuff does exactly what I want and expect

it to do at very little cost. My current tube was opened for use this

past May, and the tube, the applicator, and the glue remain quite

usable.



Denny



Denny S. Anspach MD

Sacramento


The most common Offset Twin

Bill Welch
 

The most common version did not have the ever so slight "swale" along the bottom of the side sheathing but was straight along the bottom edge of the car's side. The L&N and C&O had thousands of these and the Southern had approximately 3,000. While one can "get there" using Athearn and Atlas models, both involve removing molded on grabs and replacing with wire. The Athearn example is not up to modern standards in that the inside of the car is not modeled correctly.

Dennis, my apologies for leaving Accurail off the list I wish would do this car. If you do it, please do not cast the grabs in place! Personally, I don't care about the sill steps. There are only four per car. But on hoppers the many grabs are out there for the world to see and need to be modeled with wire, as with IM's covered hopper and Athearn's Airslide.

Bill Welch


Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 19

William Sharpe <wsharpe1@...>
 

Hi Ed;
Thank you for the heads up on RPC Volume 19. I will be sending my
remittance to you in the mail today and would like to receive my copy from
you at Naperville. I look forward to seeing you then.
Bill

William H. Sharpe
Hamilton, Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed
Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:48 PM
To: STMFC Discussion Group
Subject: [STMFC] Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 19

STMFC Group,
The RP CYC Publishing Company is pleased to announce the imminent
release of RAILWAY PROTOTYPE CYCLOPEDIA, Volume 19, scheduled for
distribution beginning in the last week of October 2009. Volume 19
contains much useful prototype and scale modeling information: 149
black & white and color photographs, 31 diagrams, and 4 tables for a
total of 113 pages comprising three in-depth articles on the following
subjects:

1. Emergency Composite Box Cars by Patrick C. Wider (50 pages). The
article is the fourth in a series that cover American box car designs
that were built in large quantities during the first half of the 20th
Century. The author covers the single-sheathed and plywood-sheathed 40'
and 50' emergency box cars constructed during World War II following
restrictions imposed by the War Production Board.

2. Erie 40-Ton Express Milk Cars by Patrick C. Wider (10 pages). The
author describes and illustrates the unique Erie express milk cars
built during the 1930s by the Greenville Steel Car Company. Also
discussed and illustrated are some of the cars converted for express
baggage service.

3. The Family of All-Welded 70-Ton 52'-6" Drop-End Gondola Cars Based
on PRR's Class G31 by Ed Hawkins (53 pages). The article covers an
interesting group of subject cars first built by the Pennsylvania
Railroad (Class G31) in 1948-1950, followed in the 1950s with
derivatives built by American Car & Foundry and Pullman-Standard for
Pennsy, Atlantic Coast Line, Birmingham Southern, Delaware & Hudson,
Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, Southern Pacific, Wabash, Sacramento
Northern, and Western Pacific.

We appreciate your support and extend to you a pre-publication offer
for Volume 19. The normal retail price for Volume 19 is $29.95.
However, your cost is only $24.00 (postpaid to addresses in the U.S.) -
a 20-percent discount. But here's the catch! Your payment must be
postmarked by October 24, 2009 for this offer to be valid. Mail orders
with postmarks after this date will not be honored.

To take advantage of this one-time, pre-publication offer for RP CYC
Volume 19, please send a check or money order in the amount of $24.00
by October 24, 2009 to:

RP CYC Publishing Co.
P.O. Box 451
Chesterfield, MO 63006-0451

Missouri residents must add $1.85 state & local sales tax ($25.85 total
amount).

For single book orders to Canada, please add $5.79, and for single book
orders to all other countries please add $12.28 (Air Mail).

Internet users: Please visit our new web site address:
http://www.rpcycpub.com. A flyer with summary information in PDF format
can be downloaded at: http://www.rpcycpub.com/v19_flyer.pdf

For those attending the Naperville Prototype Modelers Seminar, if you
wish to have your book delivered at the meet, please indicate. We
encourage this option.

Please contact me off-list if you have any difficulties downloading the
PDF or require additional information. We thank you!
Regards,
Ed Hawkins & Pat Wider





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Kadee NYC Hoppers Announced

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Could someone please wake me when a manufacturer offers the most common version of the offset twin. InterMountain, Rapido, Tahoe, Athearn, Branchline, Walther Proto 2000, is ANYONE listening?

Bill Welch
So, Bill, what's the most common version of the offset twin?

Dennis


Re: Kadee NYC Hoppers Announced

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

The most common version? Which one is that? It seems to me there are
dozens of variants -- sides, ends, hopper door mechanisms, inside length
(and cubic capacity). So far we have't gotten any of the "alternate
standard" cars (except for the ancient Ulrich castings). I'm hoping for
an NP, GN, IC, C&O or NKP car someday...

Tim O'Connor

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Could someone please wake me when a manufacturer offers the most common version of the offset twin. InterMountain, Rapido, Tahoe, Athearn, Branchline, Walther Proto 2000, is ANYONE listening?

Bill Welch


Re: Kadee NYC Hoppers Announced

Bill Welch
 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Could someone please wake me when a manufacturer offers the most common version of the offset twin. InterMountain, Rapido, Tahoe, Athearn, Branchline, Walther Proto 2000, is ANYONE listening?

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

John, Ed Hawkins previously posted that 867000-867999 match
the Kadee model.

Tim O'Connor


Here's an interesting announcement (scroll to bottom): Kadee offset hoppers in NYC.
http://www.kadee.com/ca/preorder.htm
I'm not familiar with the detail idiosyncrasies of the NYC prototypes versus the stock Kadee model, but I'll probably be a customer regardless.
John


Re: Kadee NYC Hoppers Announced

Tim O'Connor
 

John, Ed Hawkins previously posted that 867000-867999 match
the Kadee model.

Tim O'Connor

Here's an interesting announcement (scroll to bottom): Kadee offset hoppers in NYC.
http://www.kadee.com/ca/preorder.htm
I'm not familiar with the detail idiosyncrasies of the NYC prototypes versus the stock Kadee model, but I'll probably be a customer regardless.
John


Re: ACC Applicators

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

This is a copy of my reply to the same inquiry made recently on the Passenger Car List:

Three lessons from life about the useful application of ACC from tubes:

1) When puncturing the tube opening, avoid any inadvertent squeezing of the tube so that the contents are not under pressure to pour out.

2) *Never (ever!) allow these tubes to rest in any other position but UPRIGHT (I keep square styrofoam scraps with V-shaped cuts in the middle designed to hold these tubes)*.

These simple two directives above will result of having a tube of ACC that- a) can last usable for months on end; and b) has a tip free of any clogging.

3) Do not apply glue directly from tube, but only into a tiny intermediate puddle (Westerfield technique) from which actual application is made by needle or similar. Even then, let the glue flow from the tip without squeezing the tube except perhaps with imperceptible pressure at the very bottom.

Instead of glass for puddling, I use small squares of aluminum foil reinforced by folding the edges. I puddle the very tiniest drop, and I use steel sewing needle applicators in holders (superior!), rather than pins. I keep an old razor blade handy to constantly "peel" off any dried ACC on the applicator tip.

I purchase Asian-produced ACC tubes in bulk at flea markets for about @ $0.15, and have been doing so for some years. Occasionally, I get a dry tube, or a tube of ACC that sets so fast one does not have time to work it, but on balance this stuff does exactly what I want and expect it to do at very little cost. My current tube was opened for use this past May, and the tube, the applicator, and the glue remain quite usable.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Kadee NYC Hoppers Announced

golden1014
 

Gentlemen,
 
Here's an interesting announcement (scroll to bottom): Kadee offset hoppers in NYC. 
 
http://www.kadee.com/ca/preorder.htm
 
I'm not familiar with the detail idiosyncrasies of the NYC prototypes versus the stock Kadee model, but I'll probably be a customer regardless.
 
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ACC Applicators

Lee Thwaits <leethwaits@...>
 

Acetone is the solvent for ACC. Keep a small bottle of acetone handy and dropped your applicators, tubes, etc. in it when finished using and take them out next time you need them.

Lee


Re: ACC Applicators

rgmodels@...
 

I use a 4" square of 1/4" glass for a drop of ACC. When your glass is
about covered you can scrape off the dried ACC with a razor blade.

For an applicator I use applicators I make. A needle inserted in a piece
of 1/4" dowel with the end ground off forming a "U" at the end. Several
small size needles will cover most applications. To get rid of dried up ACC
I keep a cheap cigarette lighter handy to burn off the ACC.
I'll will have a supply of these applicators available at next years Nat NG
Convention in St. Louis.

eric/Rio Grande Models


Re: ACC Applicators

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

Like so many others have noted, I use a straight pin with the head cut off
in an X-Acto type knife made by a third party (came in a free knife set from
Model Expo) which has a plastic/rubber insert designed to hold a round tool.
The ACC is dropped sparingly onto a piece of wax paper that my wife
grudgingly donates to the cause.



I do sharpen the pin point on a stone to get a nice precise point.



I also use the very inexpensive add on tips on the bottle. They look like
plastic tubing that has been heated and pulled to neck down most of the
tube. The large end is forced onto the bottom and the tip is very long. If
the tip plugs, just cut it off as there is plenty of length. When finished,
I pull it off the bottle and throw it away and seal the bottle. These are
very cheap.



I also buy in small bottles as others because this stuff goes a long ways.
I do tend to buy the generic brands carried in the hobby shops as I just
have not seen the difference in performance in HO trains. Now, if I was
building a R/C Plane which sees much more stress, I would be more selective
in the adhesive I use. I have also used the stuff found in Wal-Mart and
Home Depot and see not difference.



The real key is in the skills of the person applying the ACC unless of
course you are attaching "engineered plastics" which is another subject all
together.



Allen Cain


Re: ACC Applicators

thomasmclae
 

I put a drop in a piece of wood (Floor leftover) and use a toothpick for the transfer. The ACC jar stays fresh, and the glue gets where it goes.
For grabs, I dip the part in the glue, then apply the part to the model.

I use the same piece of wood when clearing by Faller glue bottle. I run a drop on the wood to make sure the glue is flowing, then apply glue to the modes/part. Makes for less surprises, such as when a big blob of glue squirts out. :)

Thomas

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pierreoliver2003" <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:


Rick,
I don't bother trying to use those tubes/tips that come with the glue. With the rather humid conditions in Southern Ontario I find that they clog up rather quiclly.
I simply dispense a small amount onto a piece of plastic and use a pin to transfer from the puddle to the joint.
Pierre Oliver


Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 19

Steve SANDIFER
 

My model placed in Kansas had lots of galvanized metal buildings - barns, grain elevators, etc. I paint the models with Floquil primer as a base and then use alcohol/India ink washes to get the aged look. It works well. That may be the trick for these cars. I don't know of any paint that out of the bottle looks right.

----------------------------------------------------------------
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@sbcglobal.net
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417
Personal: http://www.geocities.com/stevesandifer2000/index
Church: http://www.swcentral.org

----- Original Message -----
From: barrybennetttoo
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 19


Having used so-called 'galvanising paint' in the past I can state that the
stuff I used was a light metallic grey colour. I distinctly remember
thinking to myself at the first time I used it 'this looks nothing like
galvanised metal'.

The colour, when it dried, was a shade or two darker than the typical colour
we use for covered hoppers. In my minds eye I see a 3/4 photo of a covered
hopper in young Mr Hawkins articles in Railmodel Journal which was
described as being of a similar shade to that which I remeber.

Barry Bennett

Coventry, England.

-------Original Message-------

From: Ed Hawkins

Date: 08/10/2009 05:18:58

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 19

On Oct 7, 2009, at 11:14 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

> Mark Feddersen wrote:

> > Speaking of war emergency boxcars, does anybody know why

> > Intermountain chose to paint the roof of their C&NW version gray? As

> > far as I know they were the same box car red as the rest of the car

> > and the Viking roofs were not galvanized. Can anybody shed some

> > light on this or is this another Intermountain goof?

>

> I have no idea what color those C&NW roofs may have been, but

> I'd sure be surprised if the Viking roofing was not galvanized. That

> had been essentially standard since the 1920s and was extensively used

> even before WW I.

Mark and Tony,

The Viking roofs on the CNW emergency box cars were indeed galvanized.

Also, I believe InterMountain made a good decision on the roof color

based on available data (see below). InterMountain could have gone the

easier route and painted the roof the same as the rest of the body.

That would have eliminated a masking step and saved cost. Instead, IM

masked the car so that the roof could be painted what is thought to be

a legitimate color based on interpretation of source data by multiple

people, including noted CNW freight car historian Jeff Koeller.

I have the original bill of materials for the CNW cars built by

Pullman-Standard having the Viking roofs. I scanned and sent a copy of

the paint specs to both InterMountain and Jeff so they had actual

documentation from which to base a decision. In the paint

specifications it designates the outside of the roof and running boards

as being painted with two coats of Sherwin-Williams #21572 or equal

Galvanized Roof Paint.

Naturally, the discussion then led to "OK, now what color is

"galvanized roof paint?" Ultimately it was decided that the color

should be a shade of gray somewhat matching that of the galvanized roof

itself. Everyone is free to debate the conclusion, but the decision was

made with a great deal of thought. The sides, ends, and trucks of the

cars received CNW #1 paint "redish-brown in color." Underframes were

coated with black car cement. White stencils.

I have been known to criticize some of InterMountain's models when

think the criticism is valid and deserved, In this case, IF a mistake

in the roof color was made, I wouldn't characterize it "another

InterMountain goof" since a great deal of discussion and thought went

into the decision.

The Viking Roof specification in Pullman-Standard lot no. 5752 called

for roof sheets #16 U.S. Ga. C.B. Galvanized. Standard Railway

Equipment Manufacturing Co. drawing 7R-2650-C. The P-S drawing list

gives the general arrangement drawing no. 58215-C. It's quite possible

this drawing is in the Pullman collection at the Illinois Railway

Museum.

At the same time AC&F built emergency box cars for CNW (and one car for

CMO), and the bill of materials for the galvanized Murphy roofs on

these cars specified them as unpainted. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Ed Hawkins


Re: Interesting book available for download

Steve SANDIFER
 

Thanks for the reference. I downloaded the whole book by hitting the download button. Nice reference.

----------------------------------------------------------------
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@sbcglobal.net
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417
Personal: http://www.geocities.com/stevesandifer2000/index
Church: http://www.swcentral.org

----- Original Message -----
From: asychis@aol.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:39 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Interesting book available for download


Same for me, I am in Texas (well, maybe that's the problem!), but there is
no read button.

Jerry Michels


CNW Emergency Galvanized Viking Roofs (was) RP CYC Vol. 19

Ed Hawkins
 

On Oct 8, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

My question now is, how common was the use of "galvanizing paint" vs
unpainted galvanized metal? And does the use of the paint imply that
the roof was not actually galvanized, but was only painted that way?
Tim,
As I indicated in my original reply, the roof Viking roof sheets were
made of galvanized 16 ga. steel. In looking at hundreds of bills of
materials from AC&F and Pullman, it's evident that the use of
galvanized roof paint on a galvanized roof was an uncommon practice.
Unpainted galvanized roofs were much more common.

Interestingly, Viking roofs used on CNW box cars (CNW 72000-72998 even
and 73000-74398 even) built by AC&F one year earlier in 1942 were
painted the same color as the sides and ends.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 19

Tim O'Connor
 

Galvanized metal is very shiny when new, but quickly oxidizes to a
light gray, then darker gray as it ages.

I have not seen the Intermountain model but it sounds like they tried
to replicate the paint you describe.

My question now is, how common was the use of "galvanizing paint" vs
unpainted galvanized metal? And does the use of the paint imply that
the roof was not actually galvanized, but was only painted that way?

Tim O'Connor

Having used so-called 'galvanising paint' in the past I can state that the
stuff I used was a light metallic grey colour. I distinctly remember
thinking to myself at the first time I used it 'this looks nothing like
galvanised metal'.

The colour, when it dried, was a shade or two darker than the typical colour
we use for covered hoppers. In my minds eye I see a 3/4 photo of a covered
hopper in young Mr Hawkins articles in Railmodel Journal which was
described as being of a similar shade to that which I remeber.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England.


Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 19

Tim O'Connor
 

I have a color photo of a C&NW Viking roofed box car and it
appears that the roof was unpainted galvanized metal but has
gradually oxidized (rusted). There appears to be no paint on
the APEX running board either (CNW #77866). The "seam caps"
have the same appearance as the rest of the roof, partially
oxidized, so this makes me think they were initially also
not painted. By contrast, many other roofs show painted
seam caps that contrast with the unpainted roof panels.

For some reason, finding overhead shots of Viking roof cars
in color has been difficult!

Tim O'Connor

Mark and Tony,

The Viking roofs on the CNW emergency box cars were indeed galvanized.
Also, I believe InterMountain made a good decision on the roof color
based on available data (see below). InterMountain could have gone the
easier route and painted the roof the same as the rest of the body.
That would have eliminated a masking step and saved cost. Instead, IM
masked the car so that the roof could be painted what is thought to be
a legitimate color based on interpretation of source data by multiple
people, including noted CNW freight car historian Jeff Koeller.

I have the original bill of materials for the CNW cars built by
Pullman-Standard having the Viking roofs. I scanned and sent a copy of
the paint specs to both InterMountain and Jeff so they had actual
documentation from which to base a decision. In the paint
specifications it designates the outside of the roof and running boards
as being painted with two coats of Sherwin-Williams #21572 or equal
Galvanized Roof Paint.

Naturally, the discussion then led to "OK, now what color is
"galvanized roof paint?" Ultimately it was decided that the color
should be a shade of gray somewhat matching that of the galvanized roof
itself. Everyone is free to debate the conclusion, but the decision was
made with a great deal of thought. The sides, ends, and trucks of the
cars received CNW #1 paint "redish-brown in color." Underframes were
coated with black car cement. White stencils.

I have been known to criticize some of InterMountain's models when
think the criticism is valid and deserved, In this case, IF a mistake
in the roof color was made, I wouldn't characterize it "another
InterMountain goof" since a great deal of discussion and thought went
into the decision.

The Viking Roof specification in Pullman-Standard lot no. 5752 called
for roof sheets #16 U.S. Ga. C.B. Galvanized. Standard Railway
Equipment Manufacturing Co. drawing 7R-2650-C. The P-S drawing list
gives the general arrangement drawing no. 58215-C. It's quite possible
this drawing is in the Pullman collection at the Illinois Railway
Museum.

At the same time AC&F built emergency box cars for CNW (and one car for
CMO), and the bill of materials for the galvanized Murphy roofs on
these cars specified them as unpainted. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Interesting book available for download

Derrick Brashear <shadow@...>
 

The terms and conditions don't appear to preclude me from putting a copy up, so:
http://www.dementia.org/~shadow/Popular_picture_and_plan_book_of_railroa.pdf

Enjoy.
Derrick

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@intel.com> wrote:



Maarten,

Google Books cannot be viewed outside of the U.S.A.

Regards,

-Jeff

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maarten Vis
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:26 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Interesting book available for download

Charlie,
Thanks for the link, but it only gets me the title page PDF.
Can't find the link to the book. Doing something wrong?
Have fuN,
Maarten Vis

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