Date   

Re: Lackawanna XM 1950 and 1955

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
When I announced the 1955 version of these cars, there were a few that said they were interested,
but that 1955 was too late for their purposes. I wanted to let those who can use a car, 1950 and
later, know that these are available.
Thanks, Schuyler. I am among those waiting for the 1950 version, and I've just ordered one.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

James Babcock
 

Tony,
Am I detecting a willingness on your part to produce another run?
Jim




________________________________
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 3:06:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

 
Brian Ehni wrote:
AFAIK, there is a difference between golf and polo shirts. True golf
shirts have pockets (for score card and pencil). Polos do not.
Always burns me when I see "golf shirts" advertised that are sans
pockets.
That may well be the original distinction, but I can assure you
that if you look in shirt catalogs, most styles can be had "with or
without pockets" and are all called EITHER golf or polo. I've been
through this numerous times in arranging for imprinted shirts for
various conventions as well as FOTFC.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

in addition to the Duryea underframe, the B&O cars in classes N-35A, N-41 and (I think) N-44 had Z shaped end braces which were placed closer together on the end than the end braces on the Kadee car. That is a fairly visable spotting feature which makes them stand out for me. The earlier N-35 cars built in 1940 and 41 are more closely represented by the Atlas car.

John King

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I was struck by how frustrated I was in my comments about the Kadee
offset twin and I hope I did not offend anyone by my initial email on
this subject. I went back to some notes I had made to myself about
it's potential for me in what I want to model. This helped me
remember the various details of the major groups of car "looks" which
in turn reminded me of why this offering is so frustrating to me. I
also looked back at all of Ed Hawkins' very authoritative series of
articles in the RP CYC to remind me of the various differences and
major owner railroads. In Part I he notes that there were "more than
127,000 33-foot interior length 2-bay offset twins were built." This
number includes the AAR Standard, the AAR Alternate Standard, and the
nonstandard cars.

So far, Kadee has done cars for 13 railroads, representing 16,926
cars or 13.32% of the cars built from 1934 through 1960. The B&O
owned 21,300 cars that pretty well match, if not exactly match the
Kadee model. One issue is that 14,000 of the B&O cars had the Duryea
underframe. While I can understand Kadee not creating the tooling for
a system used by only one railroad, I find it quite strange that they
have not done a model representing one of the 7,300 B&O cars without
the Duryea! While it is nice to have a model of a NYC car, their
1,000 cars seem like a small number of cars when compared to the
numbers owned by the B&O. (My authority for this is Kadee's website
that shows examples of the cars they have done, whether they are
currently available, or sold out. I saw no B&O cars listed).

So okay they are only doing one basic car body, especially as related
to the bottom of the side of the car. But they have failed to do the
cars with the heap shields. Several railroads had cars with this
configuration in small and large numbers. The L&N had only 7,200 cars
with angled heap shields and only 8,800 cars with the notched angular
heap shields. I have not calculated how many L&N cars matched the
Kadee car side but I know many did.

What really bugs me is that model companies do not see the
possibilities if they would adopt a modular approach to what they are
doing. By doing 3 sides and ends w/both straight tops and the
various heap shield designs, most of those 127,000 cars could be
modeled and almost all of the railroads in Ed's 2 and 3/4 page table
covering over 55 railroads could be done. I did not include the IC's
cars and their cousins. And many people do not want just 1-3 offset
twins.

While Kadee does beautiful models, and have added to the technology
and engineering of modeling in the way they have approached their
subjects, I would also argue that they have outsmarted themselves
with their approach to this particular car type and I think the shear
number of cars their model does not represent backs me up.

I hope that one of the manufacturers will wake up and see the
possibilities.

Bill Welch



Lackawanna XM 1950 and 1955

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Welch
Subject: [STMFC] Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers
In writing about Offset Twin Hoppers, Bill wrote in part:

What really bugs me is that model companies do not see the
possibilities if they would adopt a modular approach to what they are
doing.
Thanks, Bill, for a nice intro to talking about the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society's latest run
of XM cars suitable for the STMFC era. Readers with an reasonable attention span will recall that I
posted here when we (the ELHS) released the later paint scheme applied to these 1950 cars in 1955.
We have now released the original paint scheme from 1950. The difference is that the original,1950,
scheme had the word "LACKAWANNA" in small lettering over the slogan "The Route of Phoebe Snow" on
the right end of the side. The 1955 version has a billboard "LACKAWANNA," much larger lettering, on
the left side of the door, with the same "Route of Phoebe Snow" to the right of the door.

The relevance of Bill's note is that the combinations of roof, sides and ends utilized by
Intermountain in producing this car are correct, and had not been previously combined by
Intermountain in any of their commercial kits to date. This is a great example of combining modular
mold parts. This combination potential was noted by some Society members, and we were able to work
with IM to get this project done.(I will say that while IM comes in for its share of criticism on
these pages, they were good to work with; this project took several iterations of samples of the
lettering to reach perfection.)

When I announced the 1955 version of these cars, there were a few that said they were interested,
but that 1955 was too late for their purposes. I wanted to let those who can use a car, 1950 and
later, know that these are available.

You can find these at www.erielack.org The photo shows both the 1955 and 1950 versions.

Thanks

Schuyler Larrabee
Erie Lackawanna Historical Society
Board Member and Past Chairman





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Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Bill Welch
 

I was struck by how frustrated I was in my comments about the Kadee
offset twin and I hope I did not offend anyone by my initial email on
this subject. I went back to some notes I had made to myself about
it's potential for me in what I want to model. This helped me
remember the various details of the major groups of car "looks" which
in turn reminded me of why this offering is so frustrating to me. I
also looked back at all of Ed Hawkins' very authoritative series of
articles in the RP CYC to remind me of the various differences and
major owner railroads. In Part I he notes that there were "more than
127,000 33-foot interior length 2-bay offset twins were built." This
number includes the AAR Standard, the AAR Alternate Standard, and the
nonstandard cars.

So far, Kadee has done cars for 13 railroads, representing 16,926
cars or 13.32% of the cars built from 1934 through 1960. The B&O
owned 21,300 cars that pretty well match, if not exactly match the
Kadee model. One issue is that 14,000 of the B&O cars had the Duryea
underframe. While I can understand Kadee not creating the tooling for
a system used by only one railroad, I find it quite strange that they
have not done a model representing one of the 7,300 B&O cars without
the Duryea! While it is nice to have a model of a NYC car, their
1,000 cars seem like a small number of cars when compared to the
numbers owned by the B&O. (My authority for this is Kadee's website
that shows examples of the cars they have done, whether they are
currently available, or sold out. I saw no B&O cars listed).

So okay they are only doing one basic car body, especially as related
to the bottom of the side of the car. But they have failed to do the
cars with the heap shields. Several railroads had cars with this
configuration in small and large numbers. The L&N had only 7,200 cars
with angled heap shields and only 8,800 cars with the notched angular
heap shields. I have not calculated how many L&N cars matched the
Kadee car side but I know many did.

What really bugs me is that model companies do not see the
possibilities if they would adopt a modular approach to what they are
doing. By doing 3 sides and ends w/both straight tops and the
various heap shield designs, most of those 127,000 cars could be
modeled and almost all of the railroads in Ed's 2 and 3/4 page table
covering over 55 railroads could be done. I did not include the IC's
cars and their cousins. And many people do not want just 1-3 offset
twins.

While Kadee does beautiful models, and have added to the technology
and engineering of modeling in the way they have approached their
subjects, I would also argue that they have outsmarted themselves
with their approach to this particular car type and I think the shear
number of cars their model does not represent backs me up.

I hope that one of the manufacturers will wake up and see the
possibilities.

Bill Welch


Re: brass coupler pocket screw(s)

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Do you have a micrometer (english or metric) that you could use to check the diameter of the thread on a mating screw? This diameter will always be slightly smaller than the nominal thread diameter.

Also, place a metric rule along the thread and determine the distance between thread crests (the wavelength, for the scientifically inclined). If very fine, measure distance of 10 crests and divide by 10.

There are a limited number of combinations of diameter and pitch that are standard. You might be able to divine the right one here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#machine-screws/=418ow2
or post and I'll take a try.

I would NOT use a tap to check the internal thread. With small sizes there are usually several closely spaced sizes. It is easy to change the thread while "checking". A tap can be used with a scew to check pitch, however.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

Does anyone know the metric screw size of the standard coupler
pocket screw in brass HO freight cars? I recently picked up some of
these cars second-hand and the previous owner lost or harvested the
screws. I do of course have some other cars which can furnish
examples, but don't have a metric thread checker. Thanks in advance.


Re: ACC Applicators

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Several posters report that in their experience needle applicators do not deliver enough ACC glue. That is commonly true if one does not spin/twirl the needle as it either drawn along, or the application is in a single location, i.e. this spinning allows the glue on all sides of the needle point to be laid down, not just one side. Doing this also much diminishes the amount of ACC left to dry and cake on the needle point.

Now, this does require that the needle point be clean and clear of caked ACC....

Again, use steel needles, not pins or pieces of wire. The long tapered ends of the needles are strong, the points stay sharp, and the steel withstands the repeated cleaning of the tip. I hold it permanently in a cheap flea-market pin vise.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


brass coupler pocket screw(s)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Does anyone know the metric screw size of the standard coupler pocket screw in brass HO freight cars? I recently picked up some of these cars second-hand and the previous owner lost or harvested the screws. I do of course have some other cars which can furnish examples, but don't have a metric thread checker. Thanks in advance.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Conductors Train Book, Fitz, Sept - Oct, 1938

Mark
 

Thanks Larry!
 
Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 10/11/09, laramielarry <larryostresh@...> wrote:


From: laramielarry <larryostresh@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Conductors Train Book, Fitz, Sept - Oct, 1938
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 9:40 PM


 



Hi Everyone

Here is a summary of a Union Pacific Freight Conductors' Train Book recorded by a U.P. conductor named Fitz from September 16, 1938 to October 24, 1938. During this time period Conductor Fitz rode 36 trains on the U.P. mainline between Laramie and Rawlins, Wyoming. Fitz's Train Book overlaps that of Fraley in time and place and helps to flesh out our information about that setting (see previous posts for summaries of Fraley's Train Book).

The 36 trains were evenly split between east- and west-bound. In aggregate there were 2,362 cars, an average of 66 cars per train. Motive power was supplied by 3900 series 4-6-6-4s and 9000 series 4-12-2s. The average train weighed 2,704 tons.

The total number of eastbound cars was about the same as those heading west: 1,170 EB vs. 1,192 WB. However, there was a big difference in the load/empty ratios: EB cars had 1,086 loads and 84 empties, while WB cars had 452 loads and 740 empties.

Eight WB trains were empty, or nearly so: They had a total of ten loads and 655 empties. The longest train of the entire 36 was among this group of eight – it had one load and 95 empties. Fitz's record of this trip includes the note "Hot Box".

The distribution of the cars, by ownership, is:

Road and number of cars
PFE 908
UP 650
MDT 86
SP 64
MILW 46
CNW 37
GTW 32
PRR 31
CB&Q 30
NYC 29
UCR 25
SLSF 20
IC 19
WP 18
ATSF 17
DT&I 16
NWX 15
RI 13
T&P 13
MP 12
GATX 10
MC 10
NP 10
UTLX 10
ART 9
PM 9
T&NO 9
SFRD 8
URT 8
B&O 7
ATLX 6
KCS 6
NADX 6
NKP 6
CDLX 5
CMO 5
D&RGW 5
ERIE 5
SOUTHERN 5
Others 142
Total 2,362

Conductor Fitz recorded the car type for all but 58 cars. The distribution of car types, EB, WB, and total, is:

Type: EB, WB, Total
R: 539, 532, 1071 (Reefers)
B: 215, 254, 469 (Box)
A: 122, 151, 273 (Auto)
C: 120, 94, 214 (Primarily gons, hoppers, and ballast)
D: 31, 40, 71 (Double deck stock)
(blank): 51, 7, 58 (Not listed)
T: 25, 30, 55 (Tank)
S: 25, 29, 54 (Stock)
F: 4, 15, 19 (Flat)
?: 11, 6, 17 (Illegible)
C or G: 16, 0, 16
G: 0, 11, 11 (Gon)
Others: 11, 23, 34
Total: 1170, 1192, 2362

The "C" type is somewhat of a grab bag and includes a few tank cars, box or auto cars, and even a PFE reefer.

Ownership of the 1,071 reefers is dominated by PFE (905), followed by MDT (86).

Ownership of the 742 box and auto cars is distributed as follows:

Road and number of box and auto cars
UP 313
SP 62
GTW 32
CB&Q 30
MILW 28
NYC 23
PRR 22
WP 18
CNW 16
DT&I 16
IC 14
RI 13
MP 12
ATSF 10
MC 10
T&P 10
NP 9
PM 9
T&NO 9
SLSF 6
B&O 5
ERIE 5
NKP 5
Others 65
Grand Total 742

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Brian Ehni wrote:
AFAIK, there is a difference between golf and polo shirts. True golf shirts have pockets (for score card and pencil). Polos do not. Always burns me when I see "golf shirts" advertised that are sans pockets.
That may well be the original distinction, but I can assure you that if you look in shirt catalogs, most styles can be had "with or without pockets" and are all called EITHER golf or polo. I've been through this numerous times in arranging for imprinted shirts for various conventions as well as FOTFC.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

brianehni <behni@...>
 

AFAIK, there is a difference between golf and polo shirts. True golf shirts have pockets (for score card and pencil). Polos do not. Always burns me when I see "golf shirts" advertised that are sans pockets.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:
As far as I know, FFC T-shirts were Tony's idea . . .
True as far as it goes, Tim, but I'd point out that they were
NEVER T-shirts. All have been polo shirts (or as some say, golf
shirts), short sleeves with pockets.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
As far as I know, FFC T-shirts were Tony's idea . . .
True as far as it goes, Tim, but I'd point out that they were NEVER T-shirts. All have been polo shirts (or as some say, golf shirts), short sleeves with pockets.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Conductors Train Book, Fitz, Sept - Oct, 1938

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 12, 2009, at 1:23 AM, laramielarry wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Rod Miller <rod@...> wrote:

Is there any other information about the CDLX cars, e.g.,
car type, car number?
Hi Rod

All of the CDLX cars were of type "T" (tank), and all were
westbound empties with destination "SP". They were on four
separate trains with dates 10/9/1938, 10/14/1938, 10/17/1938 (two
cars, together), and 10/21/1938. In date order, the car numbers
were 844, 181, 887, 123, and 846.
According to the 10/38 ORER:
CDLX 123 was an 8,000 gal. ARA III in the 116-126 series.
CDLX 181 was an 8,000 gal. ICC-103 in the 178-200 series, built by
AC&F to the Type 27 design in 1930.
CDLX 844, 846, and 887 were 8,000 gal. insulated ARA IV in the
825-896 series.

California Despatch Line was in the business of shipping bulk wine
even before prohibition, and continued to do so after prohibition
ended in 1933. However, most of the insulated glass-lined (and
mostly but not entirely multiple compartment) cars designed
specifically for this service were delivered in 1940 and later. Most
of the CDLX insulated cars on the roster in the 1930s were in asphalt
service, and it is likely that the cars in the 825-896 series were
used for asphalt or other petroleum product loading.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

brianehni <behni@...>
 

While not an actual member of the FFC, I must be one based on what I've seen here; I have upwards of 75 Sunshine kits (most still in kit form like everyone else), and want more, but funding is low at the moment.

Since I cannot make this meet in Naperville (keeping my record spotless), I will have to attend in spirit only.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:30 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

As far as I know, FFC T-shirts were Tony's idea and he made them and
sold them to us. Anyone who goes to Naperville, buys resin kits and
builds them, and loves railroad freight cars, is a member of the FFC!
I don't know of any other qualifications needed. :-)
Tim is quite right. The FFC had its beginnings at a back yard BBQ at
Tony Thompson's home during the 1990 Pittsburgh NMRA convention. We
all got shirts at that event, and other shirts of different colors
were produced at intervals in the 1990s, but there were no dues,
officers, or organizational paraphernalia of any kind (intentionally
in contrast to all the NMRA rigmarole). At a number of subsequent
events, including some early Naperville seminars, there were no-host
FFC dinnners, but those became increasingly large and unwieldy and
came to a halt after one occasion when many who said they were coming
to dinner didn't and the FFC planners ended up with a big bill for a
restaurant minimum which wasn't met (and which Al Hoffman generously
covered). Today, FFC remains alive in concept, but has no more
organizational substance than it ever had. However, those who belong
to FFC in spirit (and you all know who you are) seem like an
appropriate group to present a plaque of appreciation to the Loftons
for their sponsorship of 16 annual Naperville prototype modelers'
seminars, so that's what's afoot and why all who have FFC shirts are
being asked to bring them to Naperville this year.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:30 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

As far as I know, FFC T-shirts were Tony's idea and he made them and
sold them to us. Anyone who goes to Naperville, buys resin kits and
builds them, and loves railroad freight cars, is a member of the FFC!
I don't know of any other qualifications needed. :-)
Tim is quite right. The FFC had its beginnings at a back yard BBQ at
Tony Thompson's home during the 1990 Pittsburgh NMRA convention. We
all got shirts at that event, and other shirts of different colors
were produced at intervals in the 1990s, but there were no dues,
officers, or organizational paraphernalia of any kind (intentionally
in contrast to all the NMRA rigmarole). At a number of subsequent
events, including some early Naperville seminars, there were no-host
FFC dinnners, but those became increasingly large and unwieldy and
came to a halt after one occasion when many who said they were coming
to dinner didn't and the FFC planners ended up with a big bill for a
restaurant minimum which wasn't met (and which Al Hoffman generously
covered). Today, FFC remains alive in concept, but has no more
organizational substance than it ever had. However, those who belong
to FFC in spirit (and you all know who you are) seem like an
appropriate group to present a plaque of appreciation to the Loftons
for their sponsorship of 16 annual Naperville prototype modelers'
seminars, so that's what's afoot and why all who have FFC shirts are
being asked to bring them to Naperville this year.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Duluth 1905

Tim O'Connor
 

Look at the loading dock on the side of the building
behind the reefers -- have you ever seen anything like
that? It slopes down to the ground, radially, and appears
to be made from wood planks. Bizarre!

George Sellios should have modeled 1895-1905. It appears to
be exactly right for his structures.

Tim O'Connor

At 10/3/2009 05:24 PM Saturday, you wrote:
Take a look at that fleet of Armour reefers, Courtesy of Northern Pacific list. Is that a young Mike Brock playing in the yard? Bill Welsh, which Fruit Growers class did these Armour reefers become?


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...




Here is a link to a fabulous shot of Duluth in 1905, with lots of NP
boxcars (including a 36-ft with the steel fishbelly sideframe), and a
variety of other cars, including a VERY swaybacked gondola!

http://www.shorpy.com/node/6920?size=_original

Enjoy!

Chuck Soule


Re: Sunshine errata list

Tim O'Connor
 

Yes they do look sweet... better get in line early, I think those
will go fast!

Is anyone else as excited for Naperville as I am? The new NYC rebuilds look sweet!
Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, Iowa


Metal Roof Walks

Bob McCarthy
 

Howdy!
 
      We are aware that those of you modeling in HO on this list seem to have plenty of etched metal roof walks from which to choose.
 
      However, those of us in Scale S are not so fortunate.

      Therefore, we at THE SUPPLY CAR, LLC need this list's members input for sources that would assist in creating the CAD to have etchings made for Scale S.
 
Thanks,
 
Bob McCarthy
 
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Tim O'Connor
 

Fred

As far as I know, FFC T-shirts were Tony's idea and he made them and
sold them to us. Anyone who goes to Naperville, buys resin kits and
builds them, and loves railroad freight cars, is a member of the FFC!
I don't know of any other qualifications needed. :-)

Tim O'Connor

How hard would it be to revive the FFC group? Anyone
willing to give it a try?
Fred, it's not dead, just sleeping <g>.

Tony Thompson


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Paul Lyons
 

In a coma is probably closer to the fact.



Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2009 11:14 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Friends of the Freight Car Shirts







Fred Freitas wrote:
How hard would it be to revive the FFC group? Anyone
willing to give it a try?
Fred, it's not dead, just sleeping <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history