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Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts
Marty McGuirk
I don't have an orange shirt but I do have a black one and a bright yellow one.
And why wait for Sacramento - we could get together for a seafood dinner (crab, perhaps?) in Milwaukee next year ... Marty
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Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts
I recall Richard joking about wearing shirts with
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
PROTOTYPE POLICE printed in large letters on the back and having citation books printed... I thought it was a good idea, although it would probably get us lynched at most train shows. :-) Tim O'Connor
I attended the 1990 Pittsburg convention. I remember seeing Richard walking with GN guru Staffan Einhbom (sp?) who I knew, wearing mineral brown shirts that said "Freight Car Mafia" on them. Impressive!
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Re: Journal Packing of Private Owner Cars
Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
To expand on Tony's answer a bit more, a "repack" consisted of pushing the old waste down, inspecting the axle end by dragging a hooked brass rod along it's underside to feel for any roughness or scoring, then fluffing the waste up so it touched the axle, adding / replacing waste as needed, and topping off the oil. The car was then stenciled with the date / location the work was done. The ARA / AAR mandated journal repacks at a certain interval (eighteen months? Someone help me out)and whatever road the car was presently on when the time expired was responcsible for doing the work. If a defective journal was found, or a condemable wheelset, then that wheelset needed to be replaced and both journals cleaned and repacked. This was still preformed at the location discovered, whether the car was loaded or empty, and the work was charged back to the car owner at a standard rate set by the AAR. That's why refferance books like the Official Railway Equipment Register have a "Send all repair bills to..." line in each listing. Dennis
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Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts
Jon Miller <atsf@...>
Is it possible we could do a dinner (pizza??) at the National in Sacramento? Possibly a new shirt and a pay in advance to make sure we don't have a repeat of that problem!
Jon Miller AT&SF For me time has stopped in 1941 Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Re: Journal Packing of Private Owner Cars
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Rod Miller wrote:
We are all familiar with the photo of the man squirting oil into journal boxes . . . However, if in the above time frame, there was a formal process for packing journal . . .Rod, oiling journals and packing journals are two entirely different things. The packing refers to the cotton waste or equivalent material which was supposed to wick the oil onto the journal surface, and was usually done with a tool. Some journal cellars were equipped with formed metal frames which supported the waste. That process did result in a stenciled record. But adding oil did NOT result in any stenciling, and was done as needed. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Bill Williams wrote:
I attended the 1990 Pittsburg convention. I remember seeing Richard walking with GN guru Staffan Einhbom (sp?) who I knew, wearing mineral brown shirts that said "Freight Car Mafia" on them. Impressive!The FOTFC shirts were orange and said "Friends of the Freight Car." If there were also "Freight Car Mafia" shirts at that convention, I missed them. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: When is the grain rush?
Aley, Jeff A
Larry,
After looking at the excellent data that John Hile provided, I think an obvious question arises. Did grain need to be shipped (via the UP between Laramie and Rawlins, WY) to get from the farm to the [flour] mill? I think the answer is "no", but I don't have the ICC data to prove it. I suspect that KS and NE wheat was milled in KC, Omaha, or possibly Minneapolis. WA, OR, and ID wheat was probably milled in Seattle, Portland, or Minneapolis, or exported from Seattle or Portland. In none of those cases would (much of) the wheat travel over Sherman Hill. Regards, -Jeff From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john66h Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:33 AM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Re: When is the grain rush? --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "laramielarry" <larryostresh@...> wrote: Larry, I have the following from the 1954 World Book Encyclopedia regarding wheat and wheat harvesting... Average Production in Twelve Leading States over a Period of Ten Years: State - Bushels Kansas - 126,060,000 N. Dakota - 75,820,000 Oklahoma - 48,419,000 Washington - 48,198,000 Montana - 42,550,000 Ohio - 42,003,000 Nebraska - 41,085,000 Illinois - 34,580,000 Texas - 28,195,000 Indiana - 28,154,000 Missouri - 26,875,000 Idaho - 24,194,000 Named for when planted, there is "Spring-Wheat" (planted in spring, harvested in summer) and "Winter-Wheat" (planed in fall, harvested following summer)... Spring-Wheat Region: N. Dakota, Montana, S. Dakota, Minnesota Winter Wheat Region: Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, eastern Colorado, northeastern New Mexico. Spring and Winter Varieties: Columbia River Basin, including the Blue Mountains in eastern Oregon and Washington. "Soft Grain" Varieties grown "in rotation with other crops": Ohio, Illinois, Indiana
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Journal Packing of Private Owner Cars
Rod Miller
We are all familiar with the photo of the
man squirting oil into journal boxes as the car rolled down the hump. Is that how journals were maintained towards the end of the steam era? If so, then that process (squirting oil) would seem to cover all cars regardless of ownership. However, if in the above time frame, there was a formal process for packing journals that resulted in a lettering "record" being applied to the car, how was that done for private owner cars? One thought is that the owner could contract with (most likely) a railroad to have their facilities pack the journals when the owner wanted it done. Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed. I didn't look at more than a few of the 1700 messages a search of the message archive produced, and a google search didn't turn up anything in the first few pages of results. Thanks Rod
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Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts
bill_d_goat
I attended the 1990 Pittsburg convention. I remember seeing Richard walking with GN guru Staffan Einhbom (sp?) who I knew, wearing mineral brown shirts that said "Freight Car Mafia" on them. Impressive! Bill Williams
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Re: When is the grain rush?
Hi,
Don't forget to factor in the effect of grain elevators. Grain is often harvested and stored in relatively local elevators and then shipped to the users (such as bread companies) "as needed". This allows the shipments to be spread out and reduces the need for truly huge local storage. Yes, there was a grain rush - that used up extra cars such as box cars with paper doors, etc. But there was/is also a lot of 'store now and ship later'. If you think about it there are very few "grain products" that have a seasonal nature to their demand - and many of those bubbles are still "exchanges" rather than actual increase in demand. The amount of grain shipped/consumed is more directly related to the size of the local population than to the season - and even when population has fluctuations (such as Florida/Arizona in the Winter) it is still an "exchange" (e.g. grain usage in Florida goes up while grain use in the NorthEast goes down). This is true for most food products, not just grain. During the era appropriate for this list the local users (such as bread companies) were smaller and more spread out than today - but the basic principle of "how many people are we selling product to? -this week/month-" still applied. - Jim
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Re: When is the grain rush?
gn3397 <heninger@...>
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "laramielarry" <larryostresh@...> wrote:
Larry, The "grain rush" varies depending on the type of crop grown. On the Great Northern, which served a territory that produces a lot of spring wheat and durum, the grain rush runs from August through September, with prepositioning of cars starting in July. There would still be significant wheat traffic into the early winter months, but the "rush" was typically winding down by early November. Farmers try to hold onto their grain and sell when the prices are highest, but a lot of them need to sell most of their crop right away, as the bankers needed to be paid, not to mention the seed, fertilizer, and fuel jobbers. Further south, more winter wheat is grown, IIRC, and the harvest starts earlier in the year. I would look at a June, July, or August book if I were you. Of course, your books are from Wyoming, not Kansas, so I don't know how much wheat was grown in that area at the time. Sincerely, Bob Heninger Iowa City, IA
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Re: When is the grain rush?
John Hile
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "laramielarry" <larryostresh@...> wrote:
Larry, I have the following from the 1954 World Book Encyclopedia regarding wheat and wheat harvesting... Arizona, southern California - May South of about 40-degrees north latitude - June Northern US - July, August Re: 1930's... "At the end of the war (WW1 - jfh) European nations increased their production even above what it had been...so they would not have to depend so much on imports. The world supply of wheat increased and prices declined. The resulting distress of wheat farmers and other agricultural producers was one of the causes of the world-wide depression of the early 1930's." "In 1933 the Agricultural Adjustment Act attacked overproduction and low income through co-operative acreage reduction and benefit payments." "Before the acreage-reduction program could prove its effectiveness, severe droughts in 1934 and 1936, and rust (fungi - jfh) in 1935 and 1937, struck the wheat regions and wiped out the surplus." Re: Rust... "It is estimated that in 1935 it reduced the production of wheat in North Dakota alone 59,000,000 bushels." Average Production in Twelve Leading States over a Period of Ten Years: State - Bushels Kansas - 126,060,000 N. Dakota - 75,820,000 Oklahoma - 48,419,000 Washington - 48,198,000 Montana - 42,550,000 Ohio - 42,003,000 Nebraska - 41,085,000 Illinois - 34,580,000 Texas - 28,195,000 Indiana - 28,154,000 Missouri - 26,875,000 Idaho - 24,194,000 Named for when planted, there is "Spring-Wheat" (planted in spring, harvested in summer) and "Winter-Wheat" (planed in fall, harvested following summer)... Spring-Wheat Region: N. Dakota, Montana, S. Dakota, Minnesota Winter Wheat Region: Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, eastern Colorado, northeastern New Mexico. Spring and Winter Varieties: Columbia River Basin, including the Blue Mountains in eastern Oregon and Washington. "Soft Grain" Varieties grown "in rotation with other crops": Ohio, Illinois, Indiana When I was a kid, summer vacations were often to visit family in western Kansas and western Nebraska. It was a treat for a "city" kid to ride in a grain truck, or in the cab of the combine during the wheat harvest. IIRC, they all grew winter wheat. Hope this is helpful, John Hile
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P&R decal help
Eric Hansmann
Greetings,
I'm starting to build an HO scale F&C Reading GHc/GHd gondola and am not sure if the decals are appropriate for 1926. Here's the finished image from the F&C site: http://www.fandckits.com/Images/6640Large.jpg I have Al Westerfield's AC&F DVD and found a builders image of a GHc with the original Philadelphia & Reading lettering, which is not he same as the lettering shown on the linked image. When did the P&R lettering change to Reading? Are there sources for P&R gondola lettering/decals? I checked Art Griffin and Clover House, but found only P&R box cars. Westerfield has P&R decals for the USRA mill gon. Using parts of two or three of these may finish the job. Any other suggestions? Eric Eric Hansmann Chagrin Falls, Ohio Starting over in a new house: http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/
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Re: brass coupler pocket screw(s)
Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
Hi Tony,
It's been a long time since I bought any brass freight cars, but the two screws on either side of the coupler pocket were usually 1.4mm, the same as on locomotives and passenger cars. See you in Naperville, Andy Andy Sperandeo Executive Editor Model Railroader magazine asperandeo@mrmag.com 262-796-8776, ext. 461 FAX 262-796-1142
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Re: When is the grain rush?
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Larry;
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Your data straddles the grain rush nicely. Having once lived in Laramie also, wasn't the vast majority of grain grown east (well east) of Laramie? And didn't most grain grown in the mid-west go east? Maybe your location was on a physical "grain-shed" boundary between western grain growers and mid-western/eastern grain growers.... Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laramielarry Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:32 AM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] When is the grain rush? Hi Folks When is the grain rush? The reason I ask is that for the next Union Pacific Freight Conductors' Train Book I transcribe I would like to choose a report that includes the grain rush. My Train Books are all for the U.P. mainline between Laramie and Rawlins, Wyoming, and are primarily from 1937 to 1939. Two of the books I already transcribed cover mid-September to the 3rd week in October, and there is not a hint of a grain rush. For example, in Fitz's report there are only 20 cars (of 2,362) that appear to be carrying grain of any sort. I assume that Sept-Oct is too early or too late for the grain rush. Or perhaps the grain rush did not manifest itself on the U.P. transcontinental route during the Depression? Thanks, Larry Ostresh Laramie, Wyoming
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Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts
SUVCWORR@...
Tony,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Does that mean there will be a Naperville next year?? Has someone or a group come forward to continue this? Rich Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 12:16 am Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts Jim Babcock wrote: Tony,The problem would be the venue at which to make the shirts available. One possibility is next year's Naperville. I've volunteered in the past to do a new shirt at Cocoa Beach but Mike Brock calls those shots, and he's had other shirt projects going on. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links
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When is the grain rush?
Wendye Ware
Hi Folks
When is the grain rush? The reason I ask is that for the next Union Pacific Freight Conductors' Train Book I transcribe I would like to choose a report that includes the grain rush. My Train Books are all for the U.P. mainline between Laramie and Rawlins, Wyoming, and are primarily from 1937 to 1939. Two of the books I already transcribed cover mid-September to the 3rd week in October, and there is not a hint of a grain rush. For example, in Fitz's report there are only 20 cars (of 2,362) that appear to be carrying grain of any sort. I assume that Sept-Oct is too early or too late for the grain rush. Or perhaps the grain rush did not manifest itself on the U.P. transcontinental route during the Depression? Thanks, Larry Ostresh Laramie, Wyoming
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Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Bill;
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Many of us share your frustration, and some of you have also had these same conversations with manufacturers over the possibilities of offering modular parts on more than box cars. Hoppers and gons are a good example of what can be done, and was nicely executed on the Accurail 41' IL gon, albeit without additional options (different ends, for example). This is an especially good option on gondolas, which standardized on certain lengths, and then had sides of different construction, as well as floors of steel, wood, or nailable steel, and a variety of drop and fixed enmds, all of which can be swapped around. It has been patiently explained to me that the realities of assembly costs and engineering sometimes force manufactureres to go to more fool-proof one-piece bodies with simple add-ons, rather than more complex multi-piece bodies. A study of the variations on the standard and alternate standard offset leads one to the conclusion that some compromises will have to be made to do either car in a majority of those roads rostering them, unless a highly modular and innovative alternative is developed. The variations in IL, interior shape, rivet patterns, side sills, and especially height, are many, and probably the reason one has not seen more variations in model form. Snapping all those pieces together on a modular hopper slope sheet/hopper bottom assembly gives one pause to see what could go wrong given a few dimensional errors or fumble fingers! Here's hoping someone will take up that challenge... Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Welch Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 9:01 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers I was struck by how frustrated I was in my comments about the Kadee offset twin and I hope I did not offend anyone by my initial email on this subject. I went back to some notes I had made to myself about it's potential for me in what I want to model. This helped me remember the various details of the major groups of car "looks" which in turn reminded me of why this offering is so frustrating to me. I also looked back at all of Ed Hawkins' very authoritative series of articles in the RP CYC to remind me of the various differences and major owner railroads. In Part I he notes that there were "more than 127,000 33-foot interior length 2-bay offset twins were built." This number includes the AAR Standard, the AAR Alternate Standard, and the nonstandard cars. So far, Kadee has done cars for 13 railroads, representing 16,926 cars or 13.32% of the cars built from 1934 through 1960. The B&O owned 21,300 cars that pretty well match, if not exactly match the Kadee model. One issue is that 14,000 of the B&O cars had the Duryea underframe. While I can understand Kadee not creating the tooling for a system used by only one railroad, I find it quite strange that they have not done a model representing one of the 7,300 B&O cars without the Duryea! While it is nice to have a model of a NYC car, their 1,000 cars seem like a small number of cars when compared to the numbers owned by the B&O. (My authority for this is Kadee's website that shows examples of the cars they have done, whether they are currently available, or sold out. I saw no B&O cars listed). So okay they are only doing one basic car body, especially as related to the bottom of the side of the car. But they have failed to do the cars with the heap shields. Several railroads had cars with this configuration in small and large numbers. The L&N had only 7,200 cars with angled heap shields and only 8,800 cars with the notched angular heap shields. I have not calculated how many L&N cars matched the Kadee car side but I know many did. What really bugs me is that model companies do not see the possibilities if they would adopt a modular approach to what they are doing. By doing 3 sides and ends w/both straight tops and the various heap shield designs, most of those 127,000 cars could be modeled and almost all of the railroads in Ed's 2 and 3/4 page table covering over 55 railroads could be done. I did not include the IC's cars and their cousins. And many people do not want just 1-3 offset twins. While Kadee does beautiful models, and have added to the technology and engineering of modeling in the way they have approached their subjects, I would also argue that they have outsmarted themselves with their approach to this particular car type and I think the shear number of cars their model does not represent backs me up. I hope that one of the manufacturers will wake up and see the possibilities. Bill Welch [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: brass coupler pocket screw(s)
Malcolm H. Houck
Does anyone know the metric screw size of the standard coupler
pocket screw in brass HO freight cars? Tony, Most are 1.4 mm screws........with varying head styles. Mal Houck
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Re: brass coupler pocket screw(s)
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
I wrote:
I take it that the 1.4 mm diam. screw with fine threads is normally 0.3 mm pitch . . .This is a coarse pitch thread (NOT fine), which is normally the default in metric threads. My mistake. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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