Date   

Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Because of a power outage I am late to this thread.

Although I am a thorough-going Friends of the Freight Car wannabe (I never got a shirt), I surely support Richard's enlistment of the legions to thank the Loftons for their substantial contribution to this demanding end of the hobby.

Now, I also detected some invidious comments about "the other shirts" seen on the backs of handsome worthies on occasion at both Naperville and Cocoa Beach, i.e. those with the lovely colorful Hawaiian prints . There is a difference: the Hawaiian shirts are pure Pierre Cardin, as it says clearly on the labels. If I am not mistaken, the FFC shirts are instead labeled something like Joe's Coney Island Tee Shirt & Boiler Shop.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: When is the grain rush?

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...> wrote:

There was essentially no "grain rush" as we know it today, in the 30's. Farmers fed their livestock the grain, ie corn and oats,
they raised. It was only after WWII and the need to feed the world, along with the advent of hybrid seeds, that grain production
increased and exports were financially viable. That is when the "grain rush" became a part of railroading.


Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org
Doug and Group,

I thought I have read, on this group or perhaps elsewhere, that there was a chronic shortage of box cars during the harvest season - I thought I have seen posts about double-door auto cars being used when the shortage was severe. Perhaps I have mistakenly attributed these situations to include the pre-war era?

There were many grain silos in eastern cities to support local food production (I toured one in Philly in the 60's, and I do not recall it being "new")- one needs to remember that freight movements during the winter months were not always reliable. I would assume that large eastern city bakery's would buy the grain when prices were low, and stockpile it while prices remained low, perhaps even carrying inventory into the following year's early harvest period in case prices went high during the initial harvest.

Bottom line - by definition, if there was a scramble for grain rated box cars, then there must have been a grain traffic surge somewhere. But I think Laramie is west of the bulk of America's "bread basket", so I would expect very different results as the UP main neared Chicago.

Dave Evans


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

rwitt_2000
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ed

I looked all through my 1953 Car Builder's Cyc and I couldn't
find anything that identified the "heap shields" by name --
several drawings showed different types of raised ends but
none identified the raised part.

Tim O'Connor
Tim, Ed and others,

The term maybe railroad specific as I have seen it used on equipment
diagrams for hopper cars. Some use the term "heap capacity" to describe
the additional capacity over a level load. The B&O used the term
"piling".

Bob Witt

Bob Witt


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Rich Yoder
 

Heap shields were referenced in the book "Freight car Equipment of the
Chesapeake and Ohio railway August 1, 1937" by Carl Shaver. Originally
published by the C&O in 1937 by General Superintendant of Transportation
J.W. King. I never saw reference to heap shields "Styles" other than in this
publication. Radial Arch, Oval notch, Angular peak, were all terms used by
the C&O. Dreadnaught reinforced or Corrugation reinforcement and a
reference of "bib" extensions are mentioned.

Rich Yoder

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Ed

I looked all through my 1953 Car Builder's Cyc and I couldn't
find anything that identified the "heap shields" by name --
several drawings showed different types of raised ends but
none identified the raised part.

Tim O'Connor



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Colored pencils

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Derwent are more chalky.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Colored pencils



What's a good type of colored pencil to use for freight car weathering. The ones I have a too
waxy.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa










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Re: Lackawanna XM 1950 and 1955

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Brian, the model is an ELHS exclusive.

SGL


Schuyler, hi,

Just explored the IRC site but I'm not sure . . . might I ask you if this box car modular model is
exclusive to ELHS, or
does IRC offer the model perhaps as an undec? I'm in the market for the latter.

Thanks much, Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa

. . . Society's latest run of XM cars . . . the combinations of roof, sides and ends utilized by
Intermountain in
producing this car are correct. . . . This is a great example of combining modular mold parts. <




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Re: W&LE gondola

Mark
 

Ouch!!! I model the mid fifties. Thanks for the information, Ray. Might have to put it in the things to do group.
 
Sincerely, Mark

--- On Wed, 10/14/09, Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:


From: Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] W&LE gondola
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 8:19 AM


 





Bought a InterMountain USRA composite gondola.
W&LE #51720. This car looks good but is it
right?
Any suggestions?
Thanks, Mark Morgan
Hi Mark,

The W&LE had 1000 USRA composite gondolas, 51000-51999, built by Pullman and Standard Steel in late 1919. The Wheeling began converting these cars to all steel gons in mid-1929 (numbered 51000-S - 51999-S) and into all-steel low-sided gons (57000-57120) in 1938, with the last composite cars dropping off the roster by April 1940. When the cars were rebuilt they lost their diagonal side bracing.

The lettering and colors of the Intermountain model match the 1926 in-service photo that I have of these cars (down to the road number). I believe the ends are wrong on the model; photos that I have of the rebuilt cars show flat ends with two horizontal z-bar ribs, while I think the Intermountain cars come with corrugated ends.

Hope this helps!
Ray Breyer



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Colored pencils

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Clark Propst wrote:

What's a good type of colored pencil to use for freight car
weathering. The ones I have a too waxy.
Clark, the ones I use, which work well for me are Prismacolor brand.
I have had the same problem you describe with others.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed

I looked all through my 1953 Car Builder's Cyc and I couldn't
find anything that identified the "heap shields" by name --
several drawings showed different types of raised ends but
none identified the raised part.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Colored pencils

SamClarke
 

Hello Clark,

You can use what is called "water color pencils" that are actually used by sketch and water color artists. I like Faber-Castell, Derwent, and Prismaclor, among others.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Propst
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 2:00 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Colored pencils


What's a good type of colored pencil to use for freight car weathering. The ones I have a too waxy.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Colored pencils

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

--- On Wed, 10/14/09, Clark Propst <cepropst@...> wrote:





 





What's a good type of colored pencil to use for freight car weathering. The ones I have a too waxy.

Clark Propst

Mason City Iowa


I have used both Prismacolor and CretaColor Fina Art Pastel 
with good results.CJ Riley


Re: Tide Water tank car, TWOX 3050

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:15 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

From a slide on eBay, this appears to be a Tide Water tank car, TWOX
3050, that has been converted from a three compartment into a single
compartment based upon the flanges on the top of the tank. There is no
date when the slide was taken.
This car was originally built as an 8,000 gal. single compartment
GATC Type 30. Apparently Tidewater converted it to a three
compartment car by adding internal bulkheads (note the rivet courses
for these) and additional domes, then converted it back to a single
compartment car by plating over the openings for the additional domes
(the center dome appears to be original). Conversions from single to
three compartment cars were more common than is generally recognized,
but conversions back to single compartment cars weren't common.

Richard Hendrickson


Colored pencils

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

What's a good type of colored pencil to use for freight car weathering. The ones I have a too waxy.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

cornbeltroute <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Brian, I discussed these types of cars in RP CYC Volumes 1, 2, 4, 8, 9, and 13. Another two-part article was published in Railmodel Journal about the time when the Kadee model was being released (June and Aug. 2006). <
Ed, thank you. I've got the first four RP Cycs.

Cross-checking with your roster in Vol. 1, I see that the 1943 CBC has nine photos of these cars plus four drawings, three of which might or might not be relevant. I'll study your articles to find out.

It's a great way to learn, checking references while an interesting thread is underway.

-Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Tide Water tank car, TWOX 3050

rwitt_2000
 

From a slide on eBay, this appears to be a Tide Water tank car, TWOX
3050, that has been converted from a three compartment into a single
compartment based upon the flanges on the top of the tank. There is no
date when the slide was taken.

Bob Witt

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380166651780&ssPageNa\;
me=STRK:MEWAX:IT


Re: SOURCE FOR 4/4 DREADNAUGHT ENDS

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "billkeene2004" <wakeene@...> wrote:
I am at the beginning of an effort to scratch build at least six MKT 47001-47500 series stock cars. I am in need of a source for 4/4 Dreadnaught ends for these cars that have an inside height of 8'-7".

Bill, the suggestions about Details West ends and the ends in various resin kits are most accurate but a good stand in for 4/4 dreadnaught ends (with ladders cast on) would be the old AHM double door, double sheathed box car, especially if you can use the roof (it has peaked seem caps and is flat between the seem caps).

Ed


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Ed Hawkins
 

On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:31 PM, water.kresse@... wrote:

Are talking about extended-ends and end-extensions when we mention
"heap-shields"?

Don't what is slang and what is "correct" terminology for these.
Al,
That's what I'm referring to. For lack of an official term that I don't
recall ever seeing in a CBC or other dictionary of terms, I have
referred to them as heap shields. If anyone knows the proper
terminology or can point to a reference, please advise.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Ed Hawkins
 

On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:35 PM, cornbeltroute wrote:

Might you have a couple of references to the offset twin hoppers
talked about in this thread?

I'm going to look in my hoppers file right now, maybe I've got
something in there. I'll check my RP CYCs, too (I've got most of 'em
but not all of them) and peruse the older CBCs I have at hand.
Brian,
I discussed these types of cars in RP CYC Volumes 1, 2, 4, 8, 9, and
13. Another two-part article was published in Railmodel Journal about
the time when the Kadee model was being released (June and Aug. 2006).
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

cornbeltroute <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Ed, Bill,

Might you have a couple of references to the offset twin hoppers talked about in this thread?

I'm going to look in my hoppers file right now, maybe I've got something in there. I'll check my RP CYCs, too (I've got most of 'em but not all of them) and peruse the older CBCs I have at hand.

Thanks much,

Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

water.kresse@...
 

Ed,



Are talking about extended-ends and end-extensions when we mention "heap-shields"?



Don't what is slang and what is "correct" terminology for these.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:15:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers


On Oct 12, 2009, at 8:00 PM, Bill Welch wrote:

<SNIP>
 So okay they are only doing one basic car body, especially as related
 to the bottom of the side of the car. But they have failed to do the
 cars with the heap shields. Several railroads had cars with this
 configuration in small and large numbers. The L&N had only 7,200 cars
 with angled heap shields and only 8,800 cars with the notched angular
 heap shields. I have not calculated how many L&N cars matched the
 Kadee car side but I know many did.

 What really bugs me is that model companies do not see the
 possibilities if they would adopt a modular approach to what they are
 doing. By doing 3 sides and ends w/both straight tops and the
 various heap shield designs, most of those 127,000 cars could be
 modeled and almost all of the railroads in Ed's 2 and 3/4 page table
 covering over 55 railroads could be done. I did not include the IC's
 cars and their cousins. And many people do not want just 1-3 offset
 twins.

 While Kadee does beautiful models, and have added to the technology
 and engineering of modeling in the way they have approached their
 subjects, I would also argue that they have outsmarted themselves
 with their approach to this particular car type and I think the shear
 number of cars their model does not represent backs me up.

 I hope that one of the manufacturers will wake up and see the
 possibilities.
Bill,
The L&N had 3 series representing 5,000 prototype cars having side
arrangements essentially matching the Kadee model (not considering any
variations in the orientation of the side-stake angles). These were
series 32000-33999 (P-S 3-49), 76150-77649 (BSC 12-47), and 77750-79149
(P-S 3-48). As you pointed out, the difference is the end arrangement
having angular notched heap shields. If Kadee tooled a new pair of ends
having these heap shields, then additional models would include A&WP,
GA, Montour, SL-SF, TC, and WofA representing an additional 925
prototype cars.

If Kadee would tool the flat end arrangement used by B&O on their N-41
and N-44 cars (having regular AAR underframes) with Z-section vertical
supports, 8,000 prototype cars for B&O, LNE, and P&S would be
accurately represented (and possibly 500 more cars for CRP/CNJ).

Kadee has not yet produced models for two roads (ATSF and SL-SF) that
otherwise would match their model because the prototype cars had
Enterprise Type D door locks. Kadee offers models having Enterprise
latch and Wine door locks, which were the two most common types. The
NYC cars have been announced, and perhaps soon the C&EI cars will be
produced.

Regarding your comments about adopting a modular approach, Kadee's
model was designed essentially as a module in which each side and each
end are separate inserts. The core compromises the slope sheets and
hopper bottoms. Everything else is a detail part. Theoretically a new
pair of end inserts having the notched angular heap shields could be
tooled. The ends would be identical to the flat-top ends currently
available except they would have the correct heap shields for your L&N
cars and other roads identified above.

In my conversations with Kadee, it's my understanding that the company
has considered tooling ends having the heap shields as well as the ends
correct for the B&O N-41 and N-44 cars. Why hasn't Kadee produced these
variations? It comes down to the tooling cost versus the profit
potential. It's apparent to me that Kadee hasn't been able to justify
the cost versus the projected profit to be made for either of these
variations. If an entrepreneur or the L&N/B&O Historical Society could
guarantee sufficient sales to Kadee (i.e., a proprietary project), then
I believe Kadee would be open to tool the new ends.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

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