Date   

Re: Tide Water tank car, TWOX 3050

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Jon,

As this was first a conversion from single compartment to three
compartment configuration that means that the new interior bulkheads
were most likely installed in sections. These had to go into the
original tank through the openings cut for the new domes. These new
finished bulkheads may have been fabricated in a minimum of two half
round plates with flanges for riveting or maybe three plates to ease
internal construction effort. Converting these cars back to a single
compartment configuration may have simply required removal of part of
the interior bulkhead. The exterior bulkhead rivets would have
remained in place.

Just a thought on my part. I am very much open to learning more on the
construction methods of such conversions.

Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Oct 15, 2009, at 8:06 AM, Jon Miller wrote:

but conversions back to single compartment cars weren't common.<
Just curious. Did they take out the bulkheads and fill the rivet
holes?
Wonder why they would spend that much labor?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



Re: Tide Water tank car, TWOX 3050

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

but conversions back to single compartment cars weren't common.<
Just curious. Did they take out the bulkheads and fill the rivet holes? Wonder why they would spend that much labor?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: When is the grain rush?

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote: "Wasn't a lot of rail shipped grain "double shipped"? -- in other
words, wouldn't most of it be shipped first to a huge elevator
that had the capacity to store many trainloads of grain, and then
the grain would trickle out more slowly to millers, brewers, etc."

My friend Chuck Hitchcock has researched the grain movements at the Santa Fe's Elevator "A," at Argentine Yard in Kansas City, and learned that it functioned exactly as Tim suggests. See Chuck's article, "Switching Santa Fe's Elevator 'A,'" page 70 in the 2006 edition of "Model Railroad Planning." Not surprisingly, Chuck found that price was an important factor in the elevator's function. Grain could be stored in these huge elevators when prices were lower, then sold and shipped when prices went up.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Colored pencils

Paul Lyons
 

Clark,



You are going to better off heading for an art supply store. Got those in Iowa?[grin]



Paul Lyons

Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: rockroll50401 <cepropst@netconx.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2009 6:27 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Colored pencils









Thanks Guys! I'll head to our "Hobby Lobby" and see what they have from your lists.
Clark Propst


Re: Colored pencils

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Thanks Guys! I'll head to our "Hobby Lobby" and see what they have from your lists.
Clark Propst


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

water.kresse@...
 

Tim,



The C&O listed 10" heap and the N&W/Virginian 30 degree heap and then a cubic capacity different than level.



Apparently flood loading put an end to these raised end-styles.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:22:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ed

I looked all through my 1953 Car Builder's Cyc and I couldn't
find anything that identified the "heap shields" by name --
several drawings showed different types of raised ends but
none identified the raised part.

Tim O'Connor
Tim, Ed and others,

The term maybe railroad specific as I have seen it used on equipment
diagrams for hopper cars. Some use the term "heap capacity" to describe
the additional capacity over a level load.  The B&O used the term
"piling".

Bob Witt

Bob Witt


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

water.kresse@...
 

Rich,



Carl Shaver is the one who had me use extended-ends and end-extensions in my follow-up C&O Hops and Gons 1937-1965  book.



Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Yoder" <oscale48@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:25:34 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Heap shields were referenced in the book "Freight car Equipment of the
Chesapeake and Ohio railway August 1, 1937" by Carl Shaver. Originally
published by the C&O in 1937 by General Superintendant of Transportation
J.W. King. I never saw reference to heap shields "Styles" other than in this
publication. Radial Arch, Oval notch, Angular peak, were all terms used by
the C&O. Dreadnaught reinforced or Corrugation  reinforcement and a
reference of "bib" extensions are mentioned.

Rich Yoder

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:58 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Ed

I looked all through my 1953 Car Builder's Cyc and I couldn't
find anything that identified the "heap shields" by name --
several drawings showed different types of raised ends but
none identified the raised part.

Tim O'Connor



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Colored pencils

Charles Hladik
 

Paul,
They have to have them, we even have them in Virginia, although they
are not in silos.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division
Rustburg, VA

In a message dated 10/15/2009 9:37:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cobrapsl@aol.com writes:





Clark,

You are going to better off heading for an art supply store. Got those in
Iowa?[grin]

Paul Lyons

Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: rockroll50401 <_cepropst@netconx.cep_ (mailto:cepropst@netconx.net) >
To: _STMFC@yahoogroups.STM_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2009 6:27 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Colored pencils

Thanks Guys! I'll head to our "Hobby Lobby" and see what they have from
your lists.
Clark Propst

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: When is the grain rush?

Tim O'Connor
 

Wasn't a lot of rail shipped grain "double shipped"? -- in other
words, wouldn't most of it be shipped first to a huge elevator
that had the capacity to store many trainloads of grain, and then
the grain would trickle out more slowly to millers, brewers, etc.
And of course a lot of this farm-to-elevator grain also travelled
by water (rivers or the Great Lakes) for part of its journey.

Tim O'Connor

At 10/14/2009 08:57 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Dave Evans wrote:
I would assume that large eastern city bakery's would buy the grain
when prices were low, and stockpile it while prices remained low,
perhaps even carrying inventory into the following year's early
harvest period in case prices went high during the initial harvest.
Can I jump in here? I don't know much about the grain business,
but do BAKERIES buy grain? I'd assume they buy flour from the milling
companies who make it from grain, so what BAKERIES think about grain
prices is indirect.

Tony Thompson


Re: When is the grain rush?

Brian Carlson
 

Richard: What I've heard regarding the shipping of flour from Buffalo back
to L.A, San Diego, etc was industries were vertically integrated.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:15 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re:When is the grain rush?





On Oct 14, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Dave Evans wrote:
I would assume that large eastern city bakery's would buy the grain
when prices were low, and stockpile it while prices remained low,
perhaps even carrying inventory into the following year's early
harvest period in case prices went high during the initial harvest.
Can I jump in here? I don't know much about the grain business,
but do BAKERIES buy grain? I'd assume they buy flour from the milling
companies who make it from grain, so what BAKERIES think about grain
prices is indirect.
Point well taken. And bakeries bought flour from whoever sold what
they needed at the lowest prices. Case in point: the ca. 1938
freight car photos from the Los Angeles area which are to be
published in the (as yet still unprinted) Speedwitch Media Focus on
Freight Cars Vol. 2 included a number of Lehigh Valley flour cars
carrying flour from the mills at Buffalo, NY to a large bakery in Los
Angeles. There surely were flour mills much closer to LA than
Buffalo, but the cost/quality of the flour from Buffalo apparently
made it worth the expense to ship it all the way across the country.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Lackawanna XM 1950 and 1955

Brian Carlson
 

True, but the Brian in question, Not I, was asking for an undecorated
version. I assume he had decals covered.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:21 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lackawanna XM 1950 and 1955






Ah, but where will you get the decals?

Tim O'

At 10/14/2009 08:36 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
You can get all the parts from IRC to do it yourself. Alternate doors are
available from Southwest scale models.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 6:49 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Lackawanna XM 1950 and 1955






Brian, the model is an ELHS exclusive.

SGL


Re: Lackawanna XM 1950 and 1955

Tim O'Connor
 

Ah, but where will you get the decals?

Tim O'

At 10/14/2009 08:36 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
You can get all the parts from IRC to do it yourself. Alternate doors are
available from Southwest scale models.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 6:49 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Lackawanna XM 1950 and 1955






Brian, the model is an ELHS exclusive.

SGL


Re: When is the grain rush?

Tim O'Connor
 

Not all wheat is the same, so that would affect traffic flows quite
a bit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_taxonomy

The shortest flour haul I know is from Ayer MA to Lowell MA -- from
a flour mill that receives western US wheat to Prince (or what used
to be Prince now has a new owner). The distance is about 20 miles.

Tim O'Connor

True, but at the beginning of the 1890s Dakota wheat came into
large-scale production, at prices no one else in the United States or
for that matter in the world could compete with. Shipments from
California to Europe or even to the eastern U.S. ended rather quickly,
and the Central Valley was soon given over to different crops
altogether.
This thread, of course, was about a much later period.
Tony Thompson


Re: When is the grain rush?

Tim O'Connor
 

Hmmmm... Richard unless someone has seen the bills of lading,
how do we know LV box cars in LA were loaded in Buffalo?

Tim O'Connor

Point well taken. And bakeries bought flour from whoever sold what
they needed at the lowest prices. Case in point: the ca. 1938
freight car photos from the Los Angeles area which are to be
published in the (as yet still unprinted) Speedwitch Media Focus on
Freight Cars Vol. 2 included a number of Lehigh Valley flour cars
carrying flour from the mills at Buffalo, NY to a large bakery in Los
Angeles. There surely were flour mills much closer to LA than
Buffalo, but the cost/quality of the flour from Buffalo apparently
made it worth the expense to ship it all the way across the country.

Richard Hendrickson


speedwitch focus on freightcars

Robert kirkham
 

Is there anything that might help speed up the publication of this book? Would pre-orders help? After the first volume, its been high on my "wanted" list.

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:15 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re:When is the grain rush?
[snip]
the ca. 1938 freight car photos from the Los Angeles area which are to be published in the (as yet still unprinted) Speedwitch Media Focus on Freight Cars Vol. 2 included a number of Lehigh Valley flour cars
[snip]

Richard Hendrickson
mailto:STMFC-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com


Re: When is the grain rush?

Robert kirkham
 

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:15 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re:When is the grain rush?

On Oct 14, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Dave Evans wrote:
I would assume that large eastern city bakery's would buy the grain
when prices were low, and stockpile it while prices remained low,
perhaps even carrying inventory into the following year's early
harvest period in case prices went high during the initial harvest.
Can I jump in here? I don't know much about the grain business,
but do BAKERIES buy grain? I'd assume they buy flour from the milling
companies who make it from grain, so what BAKERIES think about grain
prices is indirect.
Point well taken. And bakeries bought flour from whoever sold what they needed at the lowest prices. Case in point: the ca. 1938 freight car photos from the Los Angeles area which are to be published in the (as yet still unprinted) Speedwitch Media Focus on Freight Cars Vol. 2 included a number of Lehigh Valley flour cars carrying flour from the mills at Buffalo, NY to a large bakery in Los Angeles. There surely were flour mills much closer to LA than Buffalo, but the cost/quality of the flour from Buffalo apparently made it worth the expense to ship it all the way across the country.
Richard Hendrickson
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: When is the grain rush?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 14, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Dave Evans wrote:
I would assume that large eastern city bakery's would buy the grain
when prices were low, and stockpile it while prices remained low,
perhaps even carrying inventory into the following year's early
harvest period in case prices went high during the initial harvest.
Can I jump in here? I don't know much about the grain business,
but do BAKERIES buy grain? I'd assume they buy flour from the milling
companies who make it from grain, so what BAKERIES think about grain
prices is indirect.
Point well taken. And bakeries bought flour from whoever sold what
they needed at the lowest prices. Case in point: the ca. 1938
freight car photos from the Los Angeles area which are to be
published in the (as yet still unprinted) Speedwitch Media Focus on
Freight Cars Vol. 2 included a number of Lehigh Valley flour cars
carrying flour from the mills at Buffalo, NY to a large bakery in Los
Angeles. There surely were flour mills much closer to LA than
Buffalo, but the cost/quality of the flour from Buffalo apparently
made it worth the expense to ship it all the way across the country.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

tmolsen@...
 

I think that I would pay to see Richard doing that<G>!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Re: When is the grain rush?

Jared Harper
 

In the Flint Hills of Kansas the wheat rush was in June.
Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "laramielarry" <larryostresh@...> wrote:

Hi Folks

When is the grain rush? The reason I ask is that for the next Union Pacific Freight Conductors' Train Book I transcribe I would like to choose a report that includes the grain rush. My Train Books are all for the U.P. mainline between Laramie and Rawlins, Wyoming, and are primarily from 1937 to 1939.

Two of the books I already transcribed cover mid-September to the 3rd week in October, and there is not a hint of a grain rush. For example, in Fitz's report there are only 20 cars (of 2,362) that appear to be carrying grain of any sort.

I assume that Sept-Oct is too early or too late for the grain rush. Or perhaps the grain rush did not manifest itself on the U.P. transcontinental route during the Depression?

Thanks,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: When is the grain rush?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Randy Hees wrote:
In the 19th century California had it's own grain rush, from the fields, mostly in the San Joaquin and Sacramento Valleys, but also the Salinas Valley and even the East Bay where they grew winter wheat, shipped to Vallejo, Port Costa, Oakland and other deep water ports for shipment via ship around the horn to England for distribution in Europe...
True, but at the beginning of the 1890s Dakota wheat came into large-scale production, at prices no one else in the United States or for that matter in the world could compete with. Shipments from California to Europe or even to the eastern U.S. ended rather quickly, and the Central Valley was soon given over to different crops altogether.
This thread, of course, was about a much later period.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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