Date   

Re: USRA composite gondolas (long, but illuminating)

Ray Breyer
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
No good news here, Mark. Almost all of the USRA
composite gondolas were rebuilt or scrapped by
the end of WW II. Minneapolis & St. Louis had
me refurbished ex-L&N cars, some of which lasted
into the early '50s, but only one of those was
still listed in the 1/53 ORER. I can't think of
any other RRs that still had them in revenue
service.
John Hile wrote:
At one point I tried to find unmodified (or least
modified) 40' USRA cars still listed in the 1/53
ORER with composite sides.  Below are my notes...
ACL 99300-99443, 141 cars
GM&O 12200-12374 most w/solid floors, 170 cars
L&N 73000-74999, 19 cars
SLSF 85000-85999 solid floors?, 358 cars
Additions and/or corrections are welcome.

Hi everyone,

With all of the work that people have put into tracking down various odd, obscure, and single-road freight cars with limited appeal (to the "great unwashed", anyway) I'm frankly stunned that no one's bothered to actually study the USRA composite gons AND their clones, to come up with anything approaching a definitive study.

Since no one's seemed to bother, I've done so. Starting off with the (flawed) list John Nehrich has online, I dug through my hundreds of car diagram book scans, thousands of freight car photos, and assorted other primary source freight car material (most railroad-generated) I now have a list of all of the USRA GS gons in service, along with all of their CLOSE clones (those cars that looked VERY close to the original USRA design, especially from the sides. They MUST have the blank center panel and the same lower edge to be included in my list). I tried to track down all of the original number series, their build dates, and if & when they were rebuilt. My numbers tracked any cars that were rebuilt from their original configuration, but which kept the original side bracing (including steel rebuilds or cars with the wood removed for pulp or pipe service). I then tracked all of these car number series through the 1930, 1945, 1950, 1955 and 1959 ORERs.


My number of originally-built cars and clones is problematic, since this is only a quick study (for now). It stands as 47,979 cars and IS an incorrect number. Milwaukee and Wabash cars are especially giving me fits, and more research is required.

However, my ORER quantities, based on the car series that I've been able to trace, are much more accurate. For those that are interested, here's the list of all of the surviving cars in 1959, which should prove illuminating:

ACL 90250-90499, 272 cars, original USRA rebuilt to steel WITH original sides.
ACL 99300-99443, 8 cars, all-original cars, ex-AB&C.
C of G 10861-10935, 66 cars, clone rebuilds with open sides for pulp.
C&IM 15000-15001, 2 cars, steel clone rebuilds WITH original sides for container service.
G&F 6001-6030, 13 cars, steel rebuild clones WITH original sides.
GM&O 12000-12374, 46 cars, wood-sided clones, ex-M&O.
GM&O 44000-44249, 246 cars, all-original cars, ex-Alton.
IC 82720-84997, 25 cars, all-original cars, mix of IC USRA cars and ex-VS&P clones.
MILW 1-1000, 1000 cars, clones rebuilt without wood sides for pulp and pipe service.
MILW 84000-90949, 4043 cars, wood-sided clones.
MP 28900-29999, 7 cars, original USRA rebuilt with side doors replacing 3 panels per side.
SLSF 50000-50398, 62 cars, wood-sided clones.
SLSF 50399-53346, 764 cars, wood-sided clones (some MAY be steel rebuilds, but not according to the ORERs)
SLSF 85000-85999, 129 cars, all-original USRA cars.
Wabash 13000-13249, 243 cars, LIKELY clones, WITH composite sides.

This all adds up to a grand total of 6,926 cars that at least look like USRA gons running after the steam era. 5573 of these still have wood sides, 287 have steel replacement sides but retained the diagonal bracing of the original cars, and 1066 cars have open sides with all of the original bracing intact. 687 of these cars are original USRA-built cars, and 408 of these are nominally retain their as-built configuration (some, but not all, likely have replacement ends)


So good news! If you like USRA composite gons, but model some time after WWII, start buying them in large lots, especially if you're a Milwaukee or Frisco modeler. Get the Intermountain versions though, as you'll sometimes have to leave the sides off or replace them with steel.

Now I need to clean up these numbers, and then figure out what to do with this data. Good thing Bob's Photos will be nearby in a couple of weeks.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Athearn Blue Box kits discontinued

brionboyles
 

At the Worlds Greatest Hobby Tour here in the DC area a couple of years back (3?, 4?) I spoke with the Athearn Rep about the future of the Blue Box and why they were important (I am a professional custom painter and inveterate tinkerer) . I could tell by the look in his eyes that every syllable dripping over his blue lips was a lie. I knew right then what I read know. Herb is dead. The kids sold their souls. Horizon Hobbies (the parent company) and the flood of Internet "virtual" hobby whorehouses they support with bottom line mentality are ready to throw another cherished part of the hobby onto the funeral pyre (already fueled by the bones of neighborhood hobby shops killed by throwing stars, poisoned with General Tso's Chicken or drowned in Won Ton Soup).

Athearn didn't write this. Horizon Hobbies did. If Betty Crocker thought this way, the baking goods aisle in the grocery store would vanish overnight, and we'd all be eating the same, someone elses' version of your mothers' German Chocolate cake at $100 a pop on your 5 year-old's birthday.

Expense, my ass. R&D costs for the Blue Box line was recovered decades ago. I'm sure a boxcar kit costs about 25 to 50 cents to produce, box and all. Hell, there is as much material involved as a shampoo bottle. Could be done in the States, if they didn't have to ship them from China along with their high-end Tiffany stock that is too expensive to make here. And the Internet virtual whorehouses have killed off the local shops where craftsmen peruse and buy such items, along with the occasional bottle of paint, pack of track joiners, strip of basswood and a magazine. Hobby shops didn't make much money off these items...Hobby shops kept their doors open with selling locos, and the industry leaders undercutting their own distribution by flooding the internet with discounts have given us cheaper locos, but fewer hobby experiences.

The very reason these items sold well was because of their simplicity and the comfort of having a cheap starting point to begin hacking away. It takes "cajones grande" to started chopping up a $$$ Kadee car or Branchline sleeper as a neophyte. Frankly, if they just sold the undec shell they'd probably do better. How many of us use Athearn trucks? Brakewheels? Roofwalks? I hope someone buys the molds and keeps a trickle coming out. Might be enough to keep a small concern going with a hand full of employees.

Enough. Time to start hoarding.

Brion


Did Bakries buy grain? (Was Grain rush)

Paul Catapano
 

Orowheat did. I gew up across the street from their Bakery on the SP Burbank (Van Nuys) Branch and they did get  covered hoppers of rye.

Paul Catapano


Re: USRA composite gondolas

Mark
 

Thank You, Bob!Mark Morgan

--- On Fri, 10/16/09, rwitt_2000 <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

From: rwitt_2000 <rwitt_2000@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: USRA composite gondolas
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 10:25 PM













 





I have posted a copy of that photo, which I "ripped" from the internet,

in the Photos Section in a folder titled "USRA".



I recall, I posted it the last time we had this discussion in the

STMFPH· Steam Era Frt Car Group Photos in a folder titled "Gondolas".



The photo is of SL-SF 85954, USRA gondola, still with is original wood

sides, which I am sure is the same photo that Tim has.



Bob Witt



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...> wrote:

SLSF 85954 was still in revenue service in 1958 - I have a shot
of the car loaded with pipe. One plank had been removed to make
an open slot below the top of the side.
Tim O'Connor
At one point I tried to find unmodified (or least modified) 40' USRA
cars still listed in the 1/53 ORER with composite sides. Below are
my

notes...
ACL 99300-99443, 141 cars
GM&O 12200-12374 most w/solid floors, 170 cars
L&N 73000-74999, 19 cars
SLSF 85000-85999 solid floors?, 358 cars
Additions and/or corrections are welcome.
John Hile


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: WrightTRAK Products

seaboard_1966
 

WE sure hope to.

DB

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] WrightTRAK Products



You bringin' any SP cabooses? :-)


At 10/16/2009 07:48 PM Friday, you wrote:
Well guys, we are just a couple of weeks away from the Naperville Show. WrightTRAK will be attending for the 3rd year.

Please visit our website at www.wrighttrak.com and if there is anything that you would like to purchase please let me know. We will be certain to bring it with us and deliver it at the show.

We have decided to do sales prior to show out of our suite as several others do. So, be sure to stop by for a visit.

Denis Blake


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



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Re: WrightTRAK Products

Tim O'Connor
 

You bringin' any SP cabooses? :-)

At 10/16/2009 07:48 PM Friday, you wrote:
Well guys, we are just a couple of weeks away from the Naperville Show. WrightTRAK will be attending for the 3rd year.

Please visit our website at www.wrighttrak.com and if there is anything that you would like to purchase please let me know. We will be certain to bring it with us and deliver it at the show.

We have decided to do sales prior to show out of our suite as several others do. So, be sure to stop by for a visit.

Denis Blake


Re: Drilling underframes

Tim O'Connor
 

On a prefab underframe found in most plastic kits (where the
crossbearers are part of the casting) if I really want to run
an airline I just flip it over and cut U-shape chunks out of the
crossbearers and place the airline through those. This is actually
done for you on a couple of brands of freight car kits, so it's
not an original idea. Once you flip the underframe over and
attach it to the freight car floor, you really can't tell (from
a casual glance) that the airline is not threaded through holes.
And it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to drill a bunch of
holes in a perfectly straight line through a bunch of crossbearers.

Tim O'Connor

At 10/16/2009 10:15 AM Friday, you wrote:
Chuck,

No right angle drills needed. Just long drill bits ( 4 1/2 inches long ) made out of .020" music ( piano ) wire or larger. The music wire is sharpened via grinding at one end creating a point or flat surface to do the drilling. ( old woodwooding working trick ) Chuck the music wire bit in a variable speed Dremel and on the lowest speed possible drill the holes needed. I drill all holes for the train line with this type of homemade drill bit. SAFETY CAUTION --- You need to hold the music wire flat ( keep the wire bit straight ) when first starting the Dremel tool or the wire will bend at the collet and will spin in large circle causing possible damage to your hand or model.

Lester Breuer


Re: USRA composite gondolas

rwitt_2000
 

I have posted a copy of that photo, which I "ripped" from the internet,
in the Photos Section in a folder titled "USRA".

I recall, I posted it the last time we had this discussion in the
STMFPH· Steam Era Frt Car Group Photos in a folder titled "Gondolas".

The photo is of SL-SF 85954, USRA gondola, still with is original wood
sides, which I am sure is the same photo that Tim has.

Bob Witt



--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


SLSF 85954 was still in revenue service in 1958 - I have a shot
of the car loaded with pipe. One plank had been removed to make
an open slot below the top of the side.

Tim O'Connor


At one point I tried to find unmodified (or least modified) 40' USRA
cars still listed in the 1/53 ORER with composite sides. Below are
my
notes...

ACL 99300-99443, 141 cars
GM&O 12200-12374 most w/solid floors, 170 cars
L&N 73000-74999, 19 cars
SLSF 85000-85999 solid floors?, 358 cars

Additions and/or corrections are welcome.

John Hile


WrightTRAK Products

seaboard_1966
 

Well guys, we are just a couple of weeks away from the Naperville Show. WrightTRAK will be attending for the 3rd year.

Please visit our website at www.wrighttrak.com and if there is anything that you would like to purchase please let me know. We will be certain to bring it with us and deliver it at the show.

We have decided to do sales prior to show out of our suite as several others do. So, be sure to stop by for a visit.

Denis Blake


Re: USRA composite gondolas

Mark
 

Have any idea on what end that car had, Tim.
Mark Morgan

--- On Fri, 10/16/09, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: USRA composite gondolas
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:28 PM













 







SLSF 85954 was still in revenue service in 1958 - I have a shot

of the car loaded with pipe. One plank had been removed to make

an open slot below the top of the side.



Tim O'Connor



At one point I tried to find unmodified (or least modified) 40' USRA
cars still listed in the 1/53 ORER with composite sides. Below are my
notes...
ACL 99300-99443, 141 cars
GM&O 12200-12374 most w/solid floors, 170 cars
L&N 73000-74999, 19 cars
SLSF 85000-85999 solid floors?, 358 cars
Additions and/or corrections are welcome.
John Hile



































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: freight car kit discounts

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

Ed,



I got my Atlas 1932 Box Cars from Al D'Elia at Eastern Classic RR for $22
just a month or so ago. I believe the MSRP is $32.95 on these? IF so, the
discount is 33%.



His email is: ecmr2@...



Phone: (877) 250-1833



I have been buying from Al through the mail for over 10 years and find him
to be an honest man.



And as is the case with most discounters who are not a "brick-and-mortar"
shop, forget about anything coming out of Horizon Hobbies being discounted
which includes Athearn and now Proto2000 or Walthers products.



Allen Cain


Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 19

Mansell Peter Hambly
 

Mr. Hawkins:

I've just returned from purchasing a postal money order in the amount of $41.37 in US$'s for Volume 19. The additional $11.58 are for two previous orders that did not include enough for postage to Canada. Thank you.

Mansell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...>
To: "STMFC Discussion Group" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 4:48 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 19


STMFC Group,
The RP CYC Publishing Company is pleased to announce the imminent
release of RAILWAY PROTOTYPE CYCLOPEDIA, Volume 19, scheduled for
distribution beginning in the last week of October 2009. Volume 19
contains much useful prototype and scale modeling information: 149
black & white and color photographs, 31 diagrams, and 4 tables for a
total of 113 pages comprising three in-depth articles on the following
subjects:

1. Emergency Composite Box Cars by Patrick C. Wider (50 pages). The
article is the fourth in a series that cover American box car designs
that were built in large quantities during the first half of the 20th
Century. The author covers the single-sheathed and plywood-sheathed 40'
and 50' emergency box cars constructed during World War II following
restrictions imposed by the War Production Board.

2. Erie 40-Ton Express Milk Cars by Patrick C. Wider (10 pages). The
author describes and illustrates the unique Erie express milk cars
built during the 1930s by the Greenville Steel Car Company. Also
discussed and illustrated are some of the cars converted for express
baggage service.

3. The Family of All-Welded 70-Ton 52'-6" Drop-End Gondola Cars Based
on PRR's Class G31 by Ed Hawkins (53 pages). The article covers an
interesting group of subject cars first built by the Pennsylvania
Railroad (Class G31) in 1948-1950, followed in the 1950s with
derivatives built by American Car & Foundry and Pullman-Standard for
Pennsy, Atlantic Coast Line, Birmingham Southern, Delaware & Hudson,
Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, Southern Pacific, Wabash, Sacramento
Northern, and Western Pacific.

We appreciate your support and extend to you a pre-publication offer
for Volume 19. The normal retail price for Volume 19 is $29.95.
However, your cost is only $24.00 (postpaid to addresses in the U.S.) -
a 20-percent discount. But here's the catch! Your payment must be
postmarked by October 24, 2009 for this offer to be valid. Mail orders
with postmarks after this date will not be honored.

To take advantage of this one-time, pre-publication offer for RP CYC
Volume 19, please send a check or money order in the amount of $24.00
by October 24, 2009 to:

RP CYC Publishing Co.
P.O. Box 451
Chesterfield, MO 63006-0451

Missouri residents must add $1.85 state & local sales tax ($25.85 total
amount).

For single book orders to Canada, please add $5.79, and for single book
orders to all other countries please add $12.28 (Air Mail).

Internet users: Please visit our new web site address:
http://www.rpcycpub.com. A flyer with summary information in PDF format
can be downloaded at: http://www.rpcycpub.com/v19_flyer.pdf

For those attending the Naperville Prototype Modelers Seminar, if you
wish to have your book delivered at the meet, please indicate. We
encourage this option.

Please contact me off-list if you have any difficulties downloading the
PDF or require additional information. We thank you!
Regards,
Ed Hawkins & Pat Wider





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: USRA composite gondolas

Tim O'Connor
 

SLSF 85954 was still in revenue service in 1958 - I have a shot
of the car loaded with pipe. One plank had been removed to make
an open slot below the top of the side.

Tim O'Connor

At one point I tried to find unmodified (or least modified) 40' USRA
cars still listed in the 1/53 ORER with composite sides. Below are my
notes...

ACL 99300-99443, 141 cars
GM&O 12200-12374 most w/solid floors, 170 cars
L&N 73000-74999, 19 cars
SLSF 85000-85999 solid floors?, 358 cars

Additions and/or corrections are welcome.

John Hile


Re: Drilling underframes

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Take a look at www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=KTD04C. Model Expo is offering a set of 1-7/8-inch-long number drill bits in even-numbered sizes from 52-74. I haven't purchased these myself, yet, but they look like they could be useful for drilling horizontally through HO underframes.

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Athearn Blue Box kits discontinued

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

From Athearn (via trainorders.com) this morning:

BEGIN QUOTE

Greetings,

Effective immediately, we here at Athearn have made the difficult decision to discontinue the production of our Blue Box line of kits. There were several factors that contributed to this extremely challenging decision however, the primary issue revolved around affordability and ensuring that our Blue Box kit pricing remain aligned with what the market can bear. Unfortunately, due to increased manufacturing and labor costs it has been determined that we are no longer able to continue offering kits at competitive price points as compared to our already assembled products.

For over 50 years the Athearn Blue Box kits have been sold worldwide, bringing happiness, joy and excitement to thousands of model railroad enthusiasts. Your passion for these products has allowed us to thrive and grow into the industry leader you still support today, and for that we are eternally grateful. Moving forward this will allow us to dedicate more resources to new and exciting projects in our Ready To Roll, Genesis and Roundhouse lines for another 50 years, or more.

We will continue to support all service and warranty needs on Blue Box kits from our headquarters in Long Beach, California. You can find our contact information here.

The Folks at Athearn

END QUOTE

Tom Madden


Re: SANTA FE REFRIGERATOR CAR TRUCKS

John Hile
 

--- In STMFC@..., "brianleppert@..." <brianleppert@...> wrote:

In vol.1 on gondolas, see page 97 bottom. Its the right hand truck under the G-50-10. The truck on the left has the same sideframe but an older bolster.

Very similar trucks were made for SP in the late 20s for their F-50-12 flatcars--see vol.3, page 220.






Brian,

Based on the photos above, I'd say your new truck looks like a great option for my Rr-5-9, -11 SFRD reefers...perhaps some of my ATSF stock cars and tanks too. Thanks very much for doing this truck!

-John Hile


Re: Drilling underframes

frograbbit602
 

Chuck,

No right angle drills needed. Just long drill bits ( 4 1/2 inches long ) made out of .020" music ( piano ) wire or larger. The music wire is sharpened via grinding at one end creating a point or flat surface to do the drilling. ( old woodwooding working trick ) Chuck the music wire bit in a variable speed Dremel and on the lowest speed possible drill the holes needed. I drill all holes for the train line with this type of homemade drill bit. SAFETY CAUTION --- You need to hold the music wire flat ( keep the wire bit straight ) when first starting the Dremel tool or the wire will bend at the collet and will spin in large circle causing possible damage to your hand or model.

Lester Breuer

--- In STMFC@..., RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

All,
Now that we've all voiced our opinions on how to clamp resin kits, how
does one drill through the center frame and crossmembers to put the brake
rigging on? I can't find any small (enough) right angle drills.
Thanks in advance,
Chuck Hladik
**************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.
net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: SANTA FE REFRIGERATOR CAR TRUCKS

brianleppert@att.net
 

--- In STMFC@..., "john66h" <john66h@...> wrote:
These trucks sounds very interesting to me, however, I do not have Vol. 4 of the SP Frt Car Series. I do have Vols. 1 and 3...are the trucks featured in either of these books?

Thanks,

-John Hile
John,

In vol.1 on gondolas, see page 97 bottom. Its the right hand truck under the G-50-10. The truck on the left has the same sideframe but an older bolster.

The prototypes I'm working from were replacement trucks for older Bettendorf T-section and maybe Vulcan trucks, using new sideframes but keeping as much as possible of the old truck parts (bolster, Barber Lateral Motion Device, springs, spring plank, etc.) One real truck I've looked at is at the Western Pacific RR Museum in Portola, CA, and has sideframes cast in 1942 for Union Pacific. Closer to home at the Nevada State RR Museum here in Carson City are a pair of Southern Pacific trucks, whose sideframes were cast in 1948 or '49. All these sideframes are almost totally identical.

Very similar trucks were made for SP in the late 20s for their F-50-12 flatcars--see vol.3, page 220.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Re: freight car kit discounts

Andrew Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

As far as I know F&C always offers 2 for 1 at show and by mail throught their flyer.

regards,

Andy Miller (who will be running F&C PRR MP54s at the North Shore Model RR Club Open house this week end)

----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 12:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] freight car kit discounts


Anyone know somewhere which discounts Atlas 1932 box cars?

Has F&C recently been offering 2 for one at shows?

Any of the other resin manufacturers having sales?

Ed


Re: Fashion Cotastrophe/Anxiety

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Bill Welch notes:

My suffering is only heightened by the fact that my long time
favorite baseball team, the LA Dodgers are in the playoffs and the
Phillies are very tough. I am hoping for a first ever "Freeway Series."
Dodgers? Good grief. No, no, this does not mean that baseball is an approved subject for the STMFC.

Thanks for listening to my anguish. (Now I am worried about being in
Mike Brock's doghouse.)
The only real problem you and perhaps John Stokes and Joel Norman might have...not to mention the hundreds of innocent attendees at Cocoa Beach...is that Prototype Rails has been considering coming up with a lettered shirt for the 2010. The good news is that at the rate of our progress, it will be properly lettered for the 2020 meet.

But...regardless...for whatever reasons, the generation of a shirt or hat carries with it a tradition sometimes which associates with an important event...like perhaps Dow 10,000. Certainly the Friends of the Freight Car dinner is one, it being synonymous with the development of RPM meets including Naperville and Prototype Rails.

Mike Brock

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