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Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Sorry, Fred, I did not add that grain on the PRR was shipped in box cars. I
have several photos of PRR cars with grain doors fitted, in that service.
PRR also used box cars, fitted with temporary grain doors, and extra sealing,
for flour, also. I have color photos into the 60's of PRR box cars covered
in white flour. PRR did not start using covered hoppers in grain, barley
malt, flour, etc, until the late 50's, or 1960 (the latter I think) when they
bought some Airslides, and then in 1964 or so, they bought a bunch of high
cube covered hoppers specifically for grain, and other food products. The
H30, H32, H33 and H34 were all bought for cement, sand, chemical additives,
and other non-food products.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Frederick Freitas
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:43 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question



Elden,

I need to ask at this point >>> in 1942, Scully yard on the
Panhandle had 6 tracks added on to for the purpose of inspecting grain
shipments before passing through Pitts. area. If I understand you, the PRR
did not use their equipment for this purpose. Now I question what cars were
used in the grain business from 1942 to 1954. Off line covered hoppers appear
to be the right idea; eg: SP, GN, UP, and midwest RR's. Anyone care to
enlighten me, and others who may still wonder.

Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> > wrote:

From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 2:12 PM



Ralph;

I cannot tell you with certainty, but for comparison, the PRR did not haul
food products in covered hoppers until much later, and only then, in giant
new covered hoppers like the PS-2CD.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Ralph
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:51 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Please excuse a question that may be very sophmoric as well as being burried
somewhere within the message archives, but I was wondering if someone could
enlighten me to the use of covered hoppers in food stuff service, circa 1947.

I realize that covered hoppers go back to the late 1930's, but were typically
used to haul chemicals and cement, not grains, as they have been almost
exclusively since the 1960's.
The issue is this - I have a friend who wants to model a brewery circa 1947,
so would ANY of the incoming grain/malt/barley have been delivered in covered
hoppers, or would it have all still been transported via boxcars? The RR in
question is the NYC, the locale New York City.

Thank you,

Ralph Heiss
S. Plainfield, NJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Ralph <cnjlv@...>
 

Gentlemen -

Thank you for all your well researched and helpful responses thus far, both on and off the group. I appreciate the help in getting an answer so as to realistically operate the layout.

Ralph Heiss
Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Fred Freitas wrote:
I need to ask at this point >>> in 1942, Scully yard on the Panhandle had 6 tracks added on to for the purpose of inspecting grain shipments before passing through Pitts. area. If I understand you, the PRR did not use their equipment for this purpose. Now I question what cars were used in the grain business from 1942 to 1954. Off line covered hoppers appear to be the right idea; eg: SP, GN, UP, and midwest RR's. Anyone care to enlighten me, and others who may still wonder.
I'd say box cars in 1942. SP had no covered hoppers yet, GN had only 5, etc.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

GUYZ,
 
           Good concept, just change 12 steps to 12 pages!
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Jim Betz <jimbetz@jimbetz.com> wrote:


From: Jim Betz <jimbetz@jimbetz.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 12:13 PM


 



I think we should rename this group "Resin Cars Anonymous" ... any one
want to be my "sponsor"? Only thing is ... twelve steps won't be near enough.
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Richard Townsend
 

Didn't Anheuser Busch have some early (pre-WW II) covered hoppers?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Elden,
 
         I need to ask at this point >>> in 1942, Scully yard on the Panhandle had 6 tracks added on to for the purpose of inspecting grain shipments before passing through Pitts. area. If I understand you, the PRR did not use their equipment for this purpose. Now I question what cars were used in the grain business from 1942 to 1954. Off line covered hoppers appear to be the right idea; eg: SP, GN, UP, and midwest RR's. Anyone care to enlighten me, and others who may still wonder.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote:


From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 2:12 PM


 



Ralph;

I cannot tell you with certainty, but for comparison, the PRR did not haul
food products in covered hoppers until much later, and only then, in giant
new covered hoppers like the PS-2CD.

Elden Gatwood


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ralph
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:51 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Please excuse a question that may be very sophmoric as well as being burried
somewhere within the message archives, but I was wondering if someone could
enlighten me to the use of covered hoppers in food stuff service, circa 1947.

I realize that covered hoppers go back to the late 1930's, but were typically
used to haul chemicals and cement, not grains, as they have been almost
exclusively since the 1960's.
The issue is this - I have a friend who wants to model a brewery circa 1947,
so would ANY of the incoming grain/malt/barley have been delivered in covered
hoppers, or would it have all still been transported via boxcars? The RR in
question is the NYC, the locale New York City.

Thank you,

Ralph Heiss
S. Plainfield, NJ
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Dave;

Too familiar....

I have dreams in which I am building resin kits...difficult kits.

Then I wake up in a cold sweat.

Elden "fallin off the wagon" Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Nelson
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:48 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?



Me: "Hi, My name is Dave. I buy kits of steam era freight cars... resin
kits".
Audience: "Hi Dave".
Me: "I started slow, buying just a few and actually building the kits, but as
time went on I was buying more and more".
Audience: Nods and mutters of personal awareness.
Me: "Now I just buy and store 'em with no thought of ever building them".

And so on.
Sound familiar?

Actually, I do have a purpose for my kits and that is as a hands-on example
of information that I can use to reproduce that car in 3d cad for use in
train simulator software.

Dave Nelson
Re: Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hi Group,

I have -- or had might be a better word -- a plan that I put in place
some years ago. I allow only one shelf for unbuilt kits. When that
shelf is full that means that a kit has to be built or sold off before
another can be purchased. This plan worked well for a several years. I
was actually able to stay ahead of the volume of incoming kits because
the stored ones were being built and added to the operational fleet.
Then I fell off the wagon... err... flatcar, gondola, whatever... and
now have kits stashed in various closets and cabinets around the house.

Yes, I am still building kits, but the incoming supply is arriving
faster than the erection shop production. And taking time to build a
layout has not helped the situation at all.

"Hi, my name is Bill. I buy kits of steam era freight cars... resin
kits."

Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Rob & Bev Manley wrote:

Dave, you are not alone,
I can help.
If any of those addictions are Burlington or Rock Island I would be
happy to share your pain.

Signed: No chance of recovery in South Holland
Rob Manley

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Nelson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?

Me: "Hi, My name is Dave. I buy kits of steam era freight cars...
resin
kits".
Audience: "Hi Dave".
Me: "I started slow, buying just a few and actually building the
kits, but
as time went on I was buying more and more".
Audience: Nods and mutters of personal awareness.
Me: "Now I just buy and store 'em with no thought of ever building
them".

And so on.
Sound familiar?

Actually, I do have a purpose for my kits and that is as a hands-on
example
of information that I can use to reproduce that car in 3d cad for
use in
train simulator software.

Dave Nelson
Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ralph;

I cannot tell you with certainty, but for comparison, the PRR did not haul
food products in covered hoppers until much later, and only then, in giant
new covered hoppers like the PS-2CD.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralph
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:51 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question



Please excuse a question that may be very sophmoric as well as being burried
somewhere within the message archives, but I was wondering if someone could
enlighten me to the use of covered hoppers in food stuff service, circa 1947.

I realize that covered hoppers go back to the late 1930's, but were typically
used to haul chemicals and cement, not grains, as they have been almost
exclusively since the 1960's.
The issue is this - I have a friend who wants to model a brewery circa 1947,
so would ANY of the incoming grain/malt/barley have been delivered in covered
hoppers, or would it have all still been transported via boxcars? The RR in
question is the NYC, the locale New York City.

Thank you,

Ralph Heiss
S. Plainfield, NJ
Re: Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?

Rob & Bev Manley
 

Dave, you are not alone,
I can help.
If any of those addictions are Burlington or Rock Island I would be happy to share your pain.

Signed: No chance of recovery in South Holland
Rob Manley

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Nelson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?


Me: "Hi, My name is Dave. I buy kits of steam era freight cars... resin
kits".
Audience: "Hi Dave".
Me: "I started slow, buying just a few and actually building the kits, but
as time went on I was buying more and more".
Audience: Nods and mutters of personal awareness.
Me: "Now I just buy and store 'em with no thought of ever building them".

And so on.
Sound familiar?

Actually, I do have a purpose for my kits and that is as a hands-on example
of information that I can use to reproduce that car in 3d cad for use in
train simulator software.

Dave Nelson
Re: Sunshine kit 91.5 question

charles slater
 

I built the piolet model for Martin, and he only sent the Youngstown doors.

Charlie Slater




To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: heninger@medicine.nodak.edu
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 02:43:10 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine kit 91.5 question





Group,
If anyone bought kit 91.5 (B&M/MTC XM-1 with the flat steel roof) at Naperville, will you tell me if it includes the early three panel doors in addition to the Youngstown door? Thanks.

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA









_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
Re: Looking for decals

charles slater
 

Martin usually doesn't sell the decals from the new kits for about a year. When a decal runs out sometimes it means the end of production for that kit because of the minimum order required to have them reprinted. Your best bet is to tell him you ruined the set you have for one of his kits and he will sell you another one to replace it.

Charlie Slater



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: jimandlisa97225@verizon.net
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:35:34 -0800
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Looking for decals





Sunshine decal only orders are faster. Occasionally only a month. I don't
know of any restriction on buying decals from new kits.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
shaystark
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 9:25 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Looking for decals

Thanks Al and Jim.

That figures, I am just wrapping up scratchbuilding the sides for my B5 and
the kit is announced. Wonder if Martin will sell me decals for his newest
releases.

I am glad to know that there is a posibliltiy to get decals from Sunshine. I
will check with them and see wwhat I can get. I just hope decals don't take
six months to get.

Thanks again.

Shay Stark









_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
Re: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garth Groff wrote:
Do you think the GTW cars also carried meat, or might they have been in some other service? If so, does anyone on this list know of a major meat packer in GTW territory who might have shipped to California for export? I suppose one could also check a late 1950s ORER to see if any GTW reefers had meat rails or other special equipment. (Unfortunately, I'm at work right now and can't do that.)
Remember CN was GTW's parent, and the car may have been loaded on CN somewhere. I don't know why meat would be shipped to California for export, as Canada has perfectly good ports on both sides of the country. All the CN cars in the ORER with overhead tanks are AAR RAMH cars, meaning they are meat cars and have brine retention tanks, beef rails, and heaters.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: EJ&E box car decals?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Me, too!

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
rockroll50401
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 9:41 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: EJ&E box car decals?





Martin was selling his overstock of orange EJ&E decals for that mini-kit. I
have a couple of friend who model the 60s setting on theirs waiting for
decals to do the half orange half green paint scheme.
Clark Propst
Re: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tony,

Do you think the GTW cars also carried meat, or might they have been in some other service? If so, does anyone on this list know of a major meat packer in GTW territory who might have shipped to California for export? I suppose one could also check a late 1950s ORER to see if any GTW reefers had meat rails or other special equipment. (Unfortunately, I'm at work right now and can't do that.)

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Garth Groff wrote:

In Jim Harrison's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN GALLERY there is a photo taken circa 1956 of a short train at Lake Temescal near Oakland, California. The first car in the train is a GTW 8-hatch reefer. I thought it was a CN car until I put a glass on it last night and could barely make out the GTW reporting marks and herald. What it was doing in California is anyone's guess, but the train is eastbound, so it is probably and empty going home. All this shows that these 8-hatch cars are appropriate for U.S. modelers, and that the cars could even turn up on a road as small as the SN.
Garth, by far the predominant use of those 8-hatch cars was for export meat, either to Canadian ports to go overseas, or to the U.S. You're right about the empty probably going ;home. There are photos of these cars in Los Angeles in the early 1960s, again presumably delivering meat. We tend to think of reefers as handling produce, and of course that happened in Canada too, but usually in conventional end- bunker cars, not the 8-hatch cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Looking for decals

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Don't remember it being mentioned but Westerfield sells decals too! They appear to be all $4 but I didn't check every one.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Re: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garth Groff wrote:
In Jim Harrison's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN GALLERY there is a photo taken circa 1956 of a short train at Lake Temescal near Oakland, California. The first car in the train is a GTW 8-hatch reefer. I thought it was a CN car until I put a glass on it last night and could barely make out the GTW reporting marks and herald. What it was doing in California is anyone's guess, but the train is eastbound, so it is probably and empty going home. All this shows that these 8-hatch cars are appropriate for U.S. modelers, and that the cars could even turn up on a road as small as the SN.
Garth, by far the predominant use of those 8-hatch cars was for export meat, either to Canadian ports to go overseas, or to the U.S. You're right about the empty probably going ;home. There are photos of these cars in Los Angeles in the early 1960s, again presumably delivering meat. We tend to think of reefers as handling produce, and of course that happened in Canada too, but usually in conventional end- bunker cars, not the 8-hatch cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
InterMountain 1958 cu ft covered hoppers

peteraue
 

If I recall correctly there was a message in this group several months ago that InterMountain was tooling a roof with inverted T-section roof seams for their 1958 cu ft covered hoppers. I tried but I couldn't find it. So either my search skill or my memory or both are bad. Does anybody remember that message?
Peter Aue
Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ralph Heiss wrote:
Please excuse a question that may be very sophmoric as well as being burried somewhere within the message archives, but I was wondering if someone could enlighten me to the use of covered hoppers in food stuff service, circa 1947.
I realize that covered hoppers go back to the late 1930's, but were typically used to haul chemicals and cement, not grains, as they have been almost exclusively since the 1960's.
The issue is this - I have a friend who wants to model a brewery circa 1947, so would ANY of the incoming grain/malt/barley have been delivered in covered hoppers, or would it have all still been transported via boxcars? The RR in question is the NYC, the locale New York City.
A perfectly reasonable question, Ralph, and though I don't know about NYC specifically, the early covered hoppers were VERY dominantly assigned to cement service. Some cars in chemical service were evident by about 1950, but they were then a small minority. I would seriously doubt grain/malt service in covered hoppers in 1947, with box cars of bagged product far more likely. Some bulk shipping in box cars took place too, but that was primarily in the harvest-to- elevator shipping.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?

Dave Nelson
 

Me: "Hi, My name is Dave. I buy kits of steam era freight cars... resin
kits".
Audience: "Hi Dave".
Me: "I started slow, buying just a few and actually building the kits, but
as time went on I was buying more and more".
Audience: Nods and mutters of personal awareness.
Me: "Now I just buy and store 'em with no thought of ever building them".

And so on.
Sound familiar?

Actually, I do have a purpose for my kits and that is as a hands-on example
of information that I can use to reproduce that car in 3d cad for use in
train simulator software.

Dave Nelson
100181 - 100200 of 186214