Date   

Re: Media Blasting

golden1014
 

Gentlemen,

There are two factors with grit blasting. One is the media, the other is the blast pressure. If you use 120 psi you're going to blast off everything in sight. I grit-blast almost everything with fine blast media in the 60-80 psi range. I even weather models with it. In my opinion, if your modeling emphasis is freight car construction, a grit blaster is an indispensible tool.

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Yes, I should have tried other means to remove that "paint". Unfortunately,
it adhered extremely well to certain portions, leaving others bare. Repeated
passes with the tool actually bagan to remove the rivets in the center of the
paint blobs, at which time I stopped. Examination of the surfaces around the
paint blobs showed considerable erosion of the surface.

Simple surface etching for paint adhesion causes no problems.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
jerryglow@...
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:00 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Media Blasting



I probably would not use it for paint removal on resin but do routinely hit
the whole model prior to painting. Ted Culotta's articles almost universally
mention doing this regardless of the material of the model.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gatwood,
Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@> wrote:

I would also avoid using media blasting using "grit", even the fine
stuff, on resin, without watching VERY closely what it is doing to the
surface. I tried to remove badly applied acrylic paint from a Westy
G22, and while the acrylic blobs gradually came off, the surrounding
unpainted resin was badly scoured and pitted.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:34 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Media Blasting



I think Dennis meant Harbor Freight instead of "Horrid Freight."

I have used baking soda in the summer in Virginia with good results.
I was using it outside. I liked it as it was cheap and easy to
control. It will not touch brass but I used vinegar to etch this.

Regarding using media blasting instead of paint stripper, I am not a
chemist but somehow I just think putting such a powerful chemical,
whatever it is, on styrene cannot be good for the styrene in the long
run. And let me tell, you do not want to use Chameleon paint stripper
with resin. You do not want to know how I know this.

Bill Welch


Re: Media Blasting

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Elden wrote:

Yes, I should have tried other means to remove that "paint". Unfortunately,
it adhered extremely well to certain portions, leaving others bare. Repeated
passes with the tool actually bagan to remove the rivets in the center of the
paint blobs, at which time I stopped. Examination of the surfaces around the
paint blobs showed considerable erosion of the surface.
Abrasive blasting doesn't work well on resilient materials. I'm not a metallurgist and am probably using the wrong words to describe properties, but take solder on brass. Solder is softer than brass, but both are rigid materials. Grit blasting will erode the solder much faster than the brass. But paint on resin is different - particularly pockets of thick, residual paint left after chemical stripping. The paint is softer than the resin, but it may be more resilient - recoiling under the pressure of the grit blast and rebounding to bounce the grit off rather than being abraded.

As I say, there must be better terms to describe the properties of the various materials and surfaces, but I hope you get the idea.....

Tom Madden


Re: Ambroid/Northeastern

rdgbuff56
 

Ed,
     I might be confused here.  I have a couple of the Ambroid cylindrical hoppers and they definely are in regular Ambroid boxes.  I think I know the tank car you are talking about and I can't recall the manufacturer at present but will find out.
     There was a Scale Craft Engineering that released an Ambroid/Northeastern/Quality Craft type TTX Finger Rack flat car.  They had one other release that doesn't come to mind but I have at least one.  I never attempted to build the two Finger Racks I have.  Someday maybe I'll substitute plastic for wood.
                                       
                                                            Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
                                                            Sunbury, Pa.

--- On Thu, 11/12/09, ed_mines <ed_mines@...> wrote:

From: ed_mines <ed_mines@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Ambroid/Northeastern
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:08 PM







 









There was another manufacturer of Ambroid freight car kits - Scalecraft

(?).



They had kits for a cylindrical NYC covered hopper and a large tank car. Kits had many more soft metal castings than most of the Ambroid kits. Al lthe casting I saw warped.



Ed

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: AT&SF Lg-2

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Group,

This same photo is reproduced on page 100 of the recently released
SANTA FE OPEN-TOP CARS: FLAT, GONDOLA, AND HOPPER CARS 1902-1959, by
Richard Hendrickson.

The Lg-2 logging cars were constructed from Ga-8 class 50-foot mill
gondolas (1920 vintage).

I recommend this book for anyone interested in these open-top car
types of the Santa Fe. It well done, very informative, and a very good
addition to the Santa Fe Railway Rolling Stock Reference Series.

Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Wouldn't be my guess, the angle/channel structure looks like it was
all made at the same time..

SGL

Interesting side frame. By any chance is that cut down from a War
Emergency gondola?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
wrote:

And now, for something completely different -- This is a first
for me, I've never heard of a Santa Fe log (Lg) flat before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130342642018
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130342642018>

Tim O'Connor
E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.508)
Database version: 6.13680
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Ambroid/Northeastern

ed_mines
 

There was another manufacturer of Ambroid freight car kits - Scalecraft
(?).

They had kits for a cylindrical NYC covered hopper and a large tank car. Kits had many more soft metal castings than most of the Ambroid kits. Al lthe casting I saw warped.

Ed


Re: Painting Trucks

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Paint will NOT adhere well to shiny,
slick engineering plastics (the types typically used for trucks). Grit
blasting abrades the surface, creating microscopic cracks and crevices
and other surface anomalies into which the paint will flow to aid
adhesion.

This is true, but....in real time, in my own experience, it proves to
be an issue have absolutely no bearing on what actually occurs in the
context of everyday experience.

Much of the engineering plastic that we paint are in small parts with
relatively high relief and with small surfaces, i.e. truck frames; and
although the paint probably probably does not undergo true surface
adherence, the dried paint film does seem to have enough mechanical
grip on and about the interstices and projections of the detailing
that peeling paint is simply not a problem.

I have been routinely painting all trucks and wheels with Floquil
permutations (Rail Brown, weathered black, etc. ) by hand mostly,
occasionally with air brush, for the past 16 years, initially in
ignorance of the engineering plastic/paint adherence issues. Well,
these years later, not a single paint problem has shown up- not one.
I just painted several truck pairs yesterday.

I do have a blast cabinet, (aluminum oxide) and it is admittedly quite
underutilized for many modeling chores that probably would be of
benefit to me. Blasting plastic trucks to hold paint is not one of
them.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Sunshine XM-1

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Does anyone know if Martin is planning on releasing a model of the B&M XM-1 with the "Reverse Creco" door?
Pierre Oliver


Re: Media Blasting

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Yes, I should have tried other means to remove that "paint". Unfortunately,
it adhered extremely well to certain portions, leaving others bare. Repeated
passes with the tool actually bagan to remove the rivets in the center of the
paint blobs, at which time I stopped. Examination of the surfaces around the
paint blobs showed considerable erosion of the surface.

Simple surface etching for paint adhesion causes no problems.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
jerryglow@...
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:00 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Media Blasting



I probably would not use it for paint removal on resin but do routinely hit
the whole model prior to painting. Ted Culotta's articles almost universally
mention doing this regardless of the material of the model.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gatwood,
Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

I would also avoid using media blasting using "grit", even the fine
stuff, on resin, without watching VERY closely what it is doing to the
surface. I tried to remove badly applied acrylic paint from a Westy
G22, and while the acrylic blobs gradually came off, the surrounding
unpainted resin was badly scoured and pitted.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:34 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Media Blasting



I think Dennis meant Harbor Freight instead of "Horrid Freight."

I have used baking soda in the summer in Virginia with good results.
I was using it outside. I liked it as it was cheap and easy to
control. It will not touch brass but I used vinegar to etch this.

Regarding using media blasting instead of paint stripper, I am not a
chemist but somehow I just think putting such a powerful chemical,
whatever it is, on styrene cannot be good for the styrene in the long
run. And let me tell, you do not want to use Chameleon paint stripper
with resin. You do not want to know how I know this.

Bill Welch


Re: Painting Trucks

steve l <stevelucas3@...>
 

So, if etched/formed HO/O scale, etc., car rooves were made, they could be made to look like galvanised material by grit blasting? If so, this would be a modeller's painting conundrum solved for those modelling STMFC's fitted with galvanised rooves. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Ken

Yes, we use paint stripper to strip entire models. Grit blasting
puts an "etch" on slippery plastics that make them far easier to
paint. Chemical stripping is intended to be harmless to the plastic
including not etching it. Grit blasting transforms shiny metal
etched running boards into beautifully "galvanized" pieces of metal.
It can be used very selectively on small areas of a finished model.
And it can thoroughly remove stubborn bits of paint on delicate
parts that remain after chemical stripping. It's an invaluable tool
as Richard said.

Tim O'Connor



At 11/11/2009 10:09 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Why is this grit blasting superior to say some kind of paint stripper? Also, what kind of paint stripper works best for taking a model all the way down to bare plastic or brass?
Â
Kenny Broomfield


Re: Media Blasting

jerryglow2
 

I probably would not use it for paint removal on resin but do routinely hit the whole model prior to painting. Ted Culotta's articles almost universally mention doing this regardless of the material of the model.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

I would also avoid using media blasting using "grit", even the fine stuff, on
resin, without watching VERY closely what it is doing to the surface. I
tried to remove badly applied acrylic paint from a Westy G22, and while the
acrylic blobs gradually came off, the surrounding unpainted resin was badly
scoured and pitted.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bill
Welch
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Media Blasting



I think Dennis meant Harbor Freight instead of "Horrid Freight."

I have used baking soda in the summer in Virginia with good results.
I was using it outside. I liked it as it was cheap and easy to control. It
will not touch brass but I used vinegar to etch this.

Regarding using media blasting instead of paint stripper, I am not a chemist
but somehow I just think putting such a powerful chemical, whatever it is, on
styrene cannot be good for the styrene in the long run. And let me tell, you
do not want to use Chameleon paint stripper with resin. You do not want to
know how I know this.

Bill Welch


Re: Media Blasting

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

I would also avoid using media blasting using "grit", even the fine stuff, on
resin, without watching VERY closely what it is doing to the surface. I
tried to remove badly applied acrylic paint from a Westy G22, and while the
acrylic blobs gradually came off, the surrounding unpainted resin was badly
scoured and pitted.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bill
Welch
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Media Blasting



I think Dennis meant Harbor Freight instead of "Horrid Freight."

I have used baking soda in the summer in Virginia with good results.
I was using it outside. I liked it as it was cheap and easy to control. It
will not touch brass but I used vinegar to etch this.

Regarding using media blasting instead of paint stripper, I am not a chemist
but somehow I just think putting such a powerful chemical, whatever it is, on
styrene cannot be good for the styrene in the long run. And let me tell, you
do not want to use Chameleon paint stripper with resin. You do not want to
know how I know this.

Bill Welch


Re: AT&SF Lg-2

al_brown03
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

<snip>
my recent book on ATSF flats and gondolas for the
Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
One more for the shopping list! :-)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: AT&SF Lg-2

James Babcock
 

Tim,
I could tell you many reasons why and in buckets full but alas I am working on a number of ATSF flats and need to back to some detailing. This book of  Richard's is a must if one models ATSF flats. But that goes for the other society books as well.
Have fun.
Jim




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 9:18:40 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: AT&SF Lg-2

 
Richard

You send me the money, and I'll buy the book, buddy!

Why the heck would anyone want a book on Santa Fe flat cars? :-)

Tim O'

At 11/12/2009 12:13 AM Thursday, you wrote:
On Nov 11, 2009, at 8:50 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

And now, for something completely different -- This is a first
for me, I've never heard of a Santa Fe log (Lg) flat before.

http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=13034264201 8
Tim, if you did some reading instead of having your eyes glued to a
computer screen all the time, you would know that the Santa Fe had
several classes of logging flats, all of which are well documented
and illustrated in my recent book on ATSF flats and gondolas for the
Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society (nine pages on
logging flats, including the image of which a copy is currently for
sale on e-Bay). Also Al Brown wouldn't have to speculate about the
origins of that car; the Lg-2 class were converted in 1955 from Ga-8
class mill gondolas built in the early 1920s. Though the Lg-2s
weren't converted from War Emergency gondolas, one Santa Fe logging
car was, the single car of class Lg-3. The book can be purchased
from the SFRH&MS on their website.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: AT&SF Lg-2

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard

You send me the money, and I'll buy the book, buddy!

Why the heck would anyone want a book on Santa Fe flat cars? :-)

Tim O'

At 11/12/2009 12:13 AM Thursday, you wrote:
On Nov 11, 2009, at 8:50 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

And now, for something completely different -- This is a first
for me, I've never heard of a Santa Fe log (Lg) flat before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130342642018
Tim, if you did some reading instead of having your eyes glued to a
computer screen all the time, you would know that the Santa Fe had
several classes of logging flats, all of which are well documented
and illustrated in my recent book on ATSF flats and gondolas for the
Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society (nine pages on
logging flats, including the image of which a copy is currently for
sale on e-Bay). Also Al Brown wouldn't have to speculate about the
origins of that car; the Lg-2 class were converted in 1955 from Ga-8
class mill gondolas built in the early 1920s. Though the Lg-2s
weren't converted from War Emergency gondolas, one Santa Fe logging
car was, the single car of class Lg-3. The book can be purchased
from the SFRH&MS on their website.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Bieber cars was New file uploaded to STMFC

Tim O'Connor
 

1,000 cars a day???????????

Dave, if you divide 20,000 by 91.25, you get 219 cars/day. If
the usual 60/40 load/empty prevails, that's about 131 loads/day.
Doesn't seem like a lot for a trunk line to me. As Tony pointed
out, the SP Cascade line carried a lot more traffic. Heck, the
Modoc line carried more traffic!

Tim O'Connor

At 11/12/2009 12:07 AM Thursday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Dave

You're saying GN+WP operated 500 miles of railroad for the sake of
40-60 cars a day (including empties)? The yard at Bieber must have
been massively overbuilt...
Unfortunately I am unable to locate the H.H. Copeland WP traffic reports I
have so this'll have to a IIRC, but yeah, on average in the steam era, that
is what I'm saying (corrected to 40-60 each way, maybe a bit more, maybe a
bit less). I can tell you tho, the Inside Gateway never, ever saw the 1000
cars/ day that you suggested. Not once. As for any part of the WP being
massively overbuilt, the WHOLE RAILROAD was massively overbuilt... Not in
size or quality but just that there were ties, rail, roadbed, bridges, etc.,
etc. As in: Gould was a fool. Thank goodness we WP fans hpt to see it but
never were required to invest in the thing.

Dave Nelson




At 11/11/2009 04:18 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Steam era? Knock a zero off that number Tim, then multiply by 2.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf
Of
Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:03 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bieber cars was New file uploaded to STMFC


The sample is statistically meaningless, especially because it spans
such a long period of time. I mean, every 3 months there probably
were 20,000 to 30,000 cars passing through Bieber. Why would you be
surprised to know that 20 or even 30 of them were Reading box cars,
much less 5?


Re: AT&SF Lg-2

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 11, 2009, at 8:50 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

And now, for something completely different -- This is a first
for me, I've never heard of a Santa Fe log (Lg) flat before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130342642018
Tim, if you did some reading instead of having your eyes glued to a
computer screen all the time, you would know that the Santa Fe had
several classes of logging flats, all of which are well documented
and illustrated in my recent book on ATSF flats and gondolas for the
Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society (nine pages on
logging flats, including the image of which a copy is currently for
sale on e-Bay). Also Al Brown wouldn't have to speculate about the
origins of that car; the Lg-2 class were converted in 1955 from Ga-8
class mill gondolas built in the early 1920s. Though the Lg-2s
weren't converted from War Emergency gondolas, one Santa Fe logging
car was, the single car of class Lg-3. The book can be purchased
from the SFRH&MS on their website.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Bieber cars was New file uploaded to STMFC

Dave Nelson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Dave

You're saying GN+WP operated 500 miles of railroad for the sake of
40-60 cars a day (including empties)? The yard at Bieber must have
been massively overbuilt...
Unfortunately I am unable to locate the H.H. Copeland WP traffic reports I
have so this'll have to a IIRC, but yeah, on average in the steam era, that
is what I'm saying (corrected to 40-60 each way, maybe a bit more, maybe a
bit less). I can tell you tho, the Inside Gateway never, ever saw the 1000
cars/ day that you suggested. Not once. As for any part of the WP being
massively overbuilt, the WHOLE RAILROAD was massively overbuilt... Not in
size or quality but just that there were ties, rail, roadbed, bridges, etc.,
etc. As in: Gould was a fool. Thank goodness we WP fans hpt to see it but
never were required to invest in the thing.

Dave Nelson




At 11/11/2009 04:18 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Steam era? Knock a zero off that number Tim, then multiply by 2.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf
Of
Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:03 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bieber cars was New file uploaded to STMFC


The sample is statistically meaningless, especially because it spans
such a long period of time. I mean, every 3 months there probably
were 20,000 to 30,000 cars passing through Bieber. Why would you be
surprised to know that 20 or even 30 of them were Reading box cars,
much less 5?


Re: AT&SF Lg-2

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Wouldn't be my guess, the angle/channel structure looks like it was all made at the same time..

SGL

Interesting side frame. By any chance is that cut down from a War Emergency gondola?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
wrote:

And now, for something completely different -- This is a first
for me, I've never heard of a Santa Fe log (Lg) flat before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130342642018
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130342642018>

Tim O'Connor




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Re: AT&SF Lg-2

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Interesting side frame structure, too.

SGL

And now, for something completely different -- This is a first
for me, I've never heard of a Santa Fe log (Lg) flat before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130342642018
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130342642018>

Tim O'Connor








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Re: AT&SF Lg-2

al_brown03
 

Interesting side frame. By any chance is that cut down from a War Emergency gondola?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

And now, for something completely different -- This is a first
for me, I've never heard of a Santa Fe log (Lg) flat before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130342642018

Tim O'Connor

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