Date   

WAG XM-1 box cars?

Tim O'Connor
 

Are the WA&G cars also XM-1's? Why didn't Martin do lettering for
these cars? Were they modified so much it would have required a new
kit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&;item=130342818897

Tim O'Connor


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I see the error, after focusing on the side sill.

Thanks, Tim, for pointing that out. But I can tell you that there are people waiting for an
Alternate Standard with the sloping side sills.

SGL

Schuyler those are all photos of alternate standard design
hoppers. None of the 4 plastic models (including Accurail's)
represents your Erie cars.

I don't think anyone has been waiting for a new AAR standard
twin..

Tim O'Connor

At 11/18/2009 09:32 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw82243adb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw82243adb.jpg>
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie24000bdb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie24000bdb.jpg>
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie25500adb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie25500adb.jpg>
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie26729adb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie26729adb.jpg>
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie27708adb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie27708adb.jpg>

Modelers of at least most if not all the roads listed on Accurail's page have been waiting for
these
models for a long time. And since I had some trouble figuring out what people were talking about
(OK, I'm dense at times . . .), this is their page:

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/7700.htm <http://www.accurail.com/accurail/7700.htm>

SGL







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Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Schuyler those are all photos of alternate standard design
hoppers. None of the 4 plastic models (including Accurail's)
represents your Erie cars.

I don't think anyone has been waiting for a new AAR standard
twin..

Tim O'Connor

At 11/18/2009 09:32 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw82243adb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie24000bdb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie25500adb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie26729adb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie27708adb.jpg

Modelers of at least most if not all the roads listed on Accurail's page have been waiting for these
models for a long time. And since I had some trouble figuring out what people were talking about
(OK, I'm dense at times . . .), this is their page:

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/7700.htm

SGL


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

Schuyler Larrabee
 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw82243adb.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie24000bdb.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie25500adb.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie26729adb.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie27708adb.jpg

OK, so my bias shows in these selections. But this is the shape of the side sills that Ed is
talking about here. I am looking forward to this kit, though Ed's comments about the reuse of the
50-ton end is disappointing. If Accurail is going to do a new model, I'd like to see the ENTIRE
model done new.

Modelers of at least most if not all the roads listed on Accurail's page have been waiting for these
models for a long time. And since I had some trouble figuring out what people were talking about
(OK, I'm dense at times . . .), this is their page:

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/7700.htm

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:29 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper




On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:14 PM, devansprr wrote:

Outside of the taper, and the number of ribs, it seems like the
various prototype cars had few spotting differences outside of safety
appliances? (and the obvious peak vs flat ends) Can someone educate
me?
Dave,
When looking at the various 50-ton AAR hopper cars that were built, one
of the key features I look at to distinguish one version from another
is the shape of the side sills. The earliest version (used from 1934 to
1949) had side sills that angled upward from the bolsters to the
corners and were straight between the bolsters. A later version (used
from 1940-1960) had side sills that were level with the track from the
bolsters to the corners and had a shallow fish-belly between the
bolsters. Note there's a 10-year overlap from 1940-1949 where new cars
could have either version. By the way, the same side sill variations
were present on 70-ton AAR offset-side hoppers.

The Atlas model has side sills representing the early version while the
Athearn and Kadee models have side sills representing the later
version. The image of the model on the Accurail web site shows a side
sill of the early version.

Then, of course, there are the differences in how the side sheets
nearest the ends were formed as well as a variety of different end
arrangements. The combinations of all of these variations are
practically endless, not to mention other more subtle differences and
specialty items.

Some ends with flat tops used angles extending from the top of the end
to the end sills, others used channels extending from the bottom of the
end sheets to the end sills, and some used closely spaced Z-sections.
Further variations include ends having extensions (i.e., peaked
ends/heap shields) of various shapes. All of these combinations add to
the complexity and cost of tooling.

It's my understanding that Accurail is using the same end configuration
for their 50-ton model as they used on their 70-ton model. It
represents (poorly in my opinion) an end arrangement having Z-section
vertical supports that are closely spaced near the middle. The
Z-sections on the model aren't Z-sections, and instead are rectangular
cross sections, because otherwise the body could not be ejected from
the mold. Unfortunately, combining this end with the side arrangement
creates a very rare prototype 50-ton AAR hopper car.

There are other end arrangements that would be a better choice for more
road names. It comes down to the tooling cost involved with making
other variants. Since Accurail already had the end tooled from their
70-ton model, they chose economy by reusing the end despite the
relative rarity of the car that will be offered. Depending on sales
once the models are released, perhaps Accurail might be open to
offering other end variations that were more commonly found on
prototype 50-ton AAR Standard hopper cars.

My intent is NOT to hurt Accurail sales, but rather to help educate
consumers in making an informed decision on what they buy. To that end
I will be happy to assist any manufacturer interested in producing
accurate models of AAR hopper cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins










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Re: Accurail Offset Twin

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I was just looking at the Athearn web site, at their retooled MDC 3- bay offset car. While the Accurail model is more accurate for the T&NO (Southern Pacific) cars, I note that the Athearn RTR car comes with all wire grab irons installed, slope sheet supports, and the correct National Type B trucks -- for $4 more than an Accurail kit that comes with plastic wheelsets.
Wish I could use a T&NO triple myself, but in my modeled era, they were still stuck in Texas. A shame.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Accurail Offset Twin

Tim O'Connor
 

I was just looking at the Athearn web site, at their retooled MDC
3-bay offset car. While the Accurail model is more accurate for the
T&NO (Southern Pacific) cars, I note that the Athearn RTR car comes
with all wire grab irons installed, slope sheet supports, and the
correct National Type B trucks -- for $4 more than an Accurail kit
that comes with plastic wheelsets.

Athearn has not upgraded its 2-bay offset car yet but they could
easily do so -- and that might just wipe out sales of competitive
products, based on their looks alone.

In fact, that may be the strategy of killing off the blue box kits.
Athearn can now upgrade the old Athearn kits (greatly increasing
the difficulty of building them) and pay for it by selling them as
RTR models only.

Tim O'Connor

At 11/18/2009 06:33 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Answering a little for Dennis, Athearn blue box kits have been discontinued.
And Accurail kits have always been a step up from Athearn and more accurate.
They may not be craftsman kits but with just a little work can be darn good
looking.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: Accurail Offset Twin

Tim O'Connor
 

It's a good question Francis. When Accurail did the 3-bay offset, my club
was ready to buy a couple hundred such cars. But for the 2-bay, we already
have acquired 300 or so Athearn cars. One wonders how many clubs & modelers
out there who want a fleet of 2-bay offset hoppers haven't already gotten
theirs from Athearn or Atlas. The AAR alternate standard car could spark
wholesale replacement by C&O, ERIE, NP and other modelers... but this one?
I like the design of the Accurail model but it's another AAR standard car.
And an unusual combination of features at that...

Tim O'Connor

Dennis,
I have a question. Is it worth the chance and expense to put another car on the market that has been done more than a couple of times before. It is already known that some shortcuts (leeway) have been taken to put this in production. Can you really make enough to have money to invest in future products? The Athearn car is fairly inexpensive and readily works for modelers who operate. If you need a well detailed car that might be different. I would think most modelers are looking for something new, not a rehash.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.


Re: M. Vaughn Decals

Tim O'Connor
 

Francis, here is the list of Mark's decals with descriptions.
The set you asked about is the "P" set. The sets marked "**"
were originally available from George Drake, DDS.
Tim O'Connor

---------------------------------------
Set Description

A **|WABASH 3-color set blue/white/black w/book
B **|WABASH individual white sheet
C **|WABASH individual blue sheet
D **|WABASH individual black sheet
E-1 **|WABASH boxcars steam era (4)
E-2 **|WABASH boxcars steam-diesel era (4)
E-3 |WABASH boxcars diesel era (4)
F |WABASH cylindrical covered hopper
| w/ letter guide & color slide
G-1 **|WABASH diesel solid blue units
G-2 **|WABASH diesel multicolor units
G-3 **|WABASH flag logos multicolor and reverse
G-4 **|WABASH diesel switchers
G-5 |WABASH diesel switchers aluminum colors
H |WABASH flatcars (2) w/ letter guide
I |ILLINOIS TERMINAL airslide (1) w/ letter guide
J |GM&O covered hoppers (5) w/ letter guide
K |photos of GM&O covered hoppers (7) specify slides/prints
L |PRR airslides (2) w/ letter guide
M |ILLINOIS TERMINAL RBL DD boxcar 2 choices w/ letter guide
N **|WABASH passenger cars and express boxcar
| w/ letter guide Yellow block letters
O **|WABASH passenger cars Red/Black for UP scheme w/ letter guide
P |60 ft autoparts boxcars C&EI/DTS/PRR/WAB (4) w/ letter guide
Q |C&IM RBL PD boxcar w/ letter guide requires CHAMP HB304
R **|NKP piggyback trailers 2 blue 1 silver w/ letter guide
S **|WABASH caboose (5) all variations!
T **|M&StL boxcars white letters (2) w/ letter guide
U-1 |M&StL open top hoppers (2)
V-1 |M&StL covered hoppers pre-1956 (2) grey car
V-2 |M&StL covered hoppers pre-1956 (2) black car
V-3 |M&StL covered hopper post-1956 (1) grey car
W |M&StL wood reefers late scheme (2) w/ letter guide
X |C&EI road diesel (2) includes stripes etc w/ letter guide
Y |WABASH sand covered hopper OVERLAND #3246
Z |M&StL 3 bay cov hopper slogan LIMITED EDITION
AA **|WABASH stockcars (3)
BB |M&StL boxcars -- 2 different cars w/ Yellow and White letters
CC |WABASH open top hoppers (8 types) plus AA car
EE-1 |M&StL caboose pre-1956 w/ letter guide
EE-2 |M&StL caboose post-1956 w/ letter guide
FF |MILW 70t 3 bay covered hopper w/ letter guide requires HERALD
HH |M&StL RS-1 diesel red/white scheme
II |Peoria & Eastern caboose & boxcar (Jade Green)
JJ |Van Dyke tankcar
KK |NYC diesels (late scheme)
MM-2 |P&E open top hopper 1949-1966 intermediate
OO |IHB 40 foot boxcars (2 cars)
NN |NKP flat cars
RR |NYC stock car
96-2 |NH boxcar PS1 (use with Champ HN-7)
96-3 |NYC Early Bird 50 ft box car (need HB-335)
96-4 |L&M RS-3 and caboose
100 |Milwaukee ice service reefers blue scheme (2)
101 |W&LE box cars (2)
102 |DSS&A pulpwood flat (not exactly accurate)
104 |Fort St Union Depot NW-5
105 |NYC covered hoppers 1 airslide 1 2-bay
106 |NYC RDC Budd car
107 |
108 |Clinchfield 60' DP box car Greenville

--------------------------------------------

At 11/18/2009 02:20 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Does anyone know what is contained in decal set MEVP 60' Con-Cor Auto Parts Car?

Thanks!
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.


Re: Accurail Offset Twin

Jim Hayes
 

Answering a little for Dennis, Athearn blue box kits have been discontinued.
And Accurail kits have always been a step up from Athearn and more accurate.
They may not be craftsman kits but with just a little work can be darn good
looking.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. <
rdgbuff56@yahoo.com> wrote:



Dennis,
I have a question. Is it worth the chance and expense to put another car on
the market that has been done more than a couple of times before. It is
already known that some shortcuts (leeway) have been taken to put this in
production. Can you really make enough to have money to invest in future
products? The Athearn car is fairly inexpensive and readily works for
modelers who operate. If you need a well detailed car that might be
different. I would think most modelers are looking for something new, not a
rehash.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.

________________________________
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com <destorzek%40mchsi.com>>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 5:33:42 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Accurail Offset Twin

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@.. .> wrote:

Dennis, does Accurail intend to offer this with heap shields?

Bill Welch
Bill,

Not at the present. The tooling was originally designed so it could be done
with changeable inserts, until we realized that that would leave an
objectionable "witness line" across what is supposed to be a flat continuous
sheet. Since few of the triples had heap shields, we decided not to do it..
When designing the twin, I see from Ed's roster that almost all the cars
with heap shields are the AAR Alt. design, with the exception of L&N. Since
these paint schemes are stand-ins at best anyway, we again decided not to
worry about it. I can't say that we'll never do it, especially if someone
wanted to commission a large custom run, but I don't see that happening. It
will take new end inserts.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Accurail Offset Twin

rdgbuff56
 

Dennis,
I have a question. Is it worth the chance and expense to put another car on the market that has been done more than a couple of times before. It is already known that some shortcuts (leeway) have been taken to put this in production. Can you really make enough to have money to invest in future products? The Athearn car is fairly inexpensive and readily works for modelers who operate. If you need a well detailed car that might be different. I would think most modelers are looking for something new, not a rehash.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.




________________________________
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 5:33:42 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Accurail Offset Twin




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@.. .> wrote:

Dennis, does Accurail intend to offer this with heap shields?

Bill Welch
Bill,

Not at the present. The tooling was originally designed so it could be done with changeable inserts, until we realized that that would leave an objectionable "witness line" across what is supposed to be a flat continuous sheet. Since few of the triples had heap shields, we decided not to do it.. When designing the twin, I see from Ed's roster that almost all the cars with heap shields are the AAR Alt. design, with the exception of L&N. Since these paint schemes are stand-ins at best anyway, we again decided not to worry about it. I can't say that we'll never do it, especially if someone wanted to commission a large custom run, but I don't see that happening. It will take new end inserts.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.


Re: Accurail Offset Twin

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Dennis, does Accurail intend to offer this with heap shields?

Bill Welch
Bill,

Not at the present. The tooling was originally designed so it could be done with changeable inserts, until we realized that that would leave an objectionable "witness line" across what is supposed to be a flat continuous sheet. Since few of the triples had heap shields, we decided not to do it. When designing the twin, I see from Ed's roster that almost all the cars with heap shields are the AAR Alt. design, with the exception of L&N. Since these paint schemes are stand-ins at best anyway, we again decided not to worry about it. I can't say that we'll never do it, especially if someone wanted to commission a large custom run, but I don't see that happening. It will take new end inserts.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.


Gold Medal Models HO buffer plate

Bill Welch
 

Rob

I could not find this item on the GMM website or a part number similar to it

Bill Welch


Accurail Offset Twin

Bill Welch
 

Dennis, does Accurail intend to offer this with heap shields?

Bill Welch


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

Dennis Storzek
 

Well, glad someone finally noticed we are releasing a twin hopper.

The prototype is basically the AAR standard car as illustrated in the 1940 Car Builder's Cyclopedia, although we actually used several P-S drawings from the Pullman Library of the Illinois Railway Museum for data. This car has a 33'-0" IL. One difference is the Z bar end posts as opposed to the pressed channel sections only below the slope sheet. The car does have the angled end sections on the side sills, as Ed Hawkins mentioned, same as our 70 ton triple hopper. In fact, the entire end of the car as far in as the bolsters is the same as the 70 ton car, because as Ed surmised, we are re-using the cavity inserts from the 70 ton car tooling. We are also using the same detail parts: brake equipment, rugged sill steps, slope sheet braces, and hopper doors that are used in that kit.

All this short / long taper stuff is getting confusing, because most offset cars have a taper from the bolster to the corner post, no matter how they look from the side. Ed worked out what I think is a better terminology in his article in RP Cyc No.1; AAR Standard, Alternate Standard, and non-standard offset twin hoppers. What we are doing follows the AAR standard design. The end panels taper from the bolster to the corner post, but the line where this taper meets the inward slope of the top of the side sheet terminates about 18" from the corner; because of this the top chord of the sides have a bend at that point, giving the car somewhat of a bowl shape in plan view. The Alt. Standard cars have a completely straight top chord, and therefore the line where the two angles meet runs all the way to the corner, and this line is not parallel to the slope sheet. These cars also use hat section stakes, so the rivet pattern differes from the AAR Standard car. I was willing to tool the new inserts to model the hat section stakes, until I realized that this always goes along with the "long" taper line on the end panel; since the budget was based on using the existing tooling parts, I abandoned that idea and did the standard car. What Ed calls "non-standard" cars typically have a double bend offset in the last panel, and again have a straight top chord, I think. I don't actually have any fabrication drawings for a car of this type, so haven't actually studied the geometry.

This is one problem with thinking that one can just change the end panels of the side to produce the different versions. When one actually looks at the situation in 3-D, one finds that the shape of that end panel also affects the shape of both the inside of the car and the area under the slope sheet, and necessitates re-doing a lot more of the tool than is at first evident. This is not a case where modular design is going to be effective. Maybe someone will tool one of these minor variations someday, but the lure of thirty-some roadnames on nearly identical cars is hard to resist. We'll leave those versions for companies that like to do $42 cars. Our kits will be one third that price.

The tooling is complete and we had test shots and a built up kit at the show in Milwaukee. At Accurail test shots are done to check cavity finish and venting issues, not to see if the geometry was correct so we can build it right the second time. The tool is presently back together and waiting it's turn after the parts for the new autorack with side panels to finish molding, and they should start showing up in the shops before Christmas.

Now to tool a coal load, since the load we do to fit Athearn cars is too wide.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.


M. Vaughn Decals

rdgbuff56
 

Does anyone know what is contained in decal set MEVP 60' Con-Cor Auto Parts Car?

Thanks!
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.


Re: NJI&I 4100-4270 boxcars running board type

Tim O'Connor
 

Chris, sets E-2 and E-3 each have the flag etc that you want.
Each set has NJI&I reporting marks for only one car, as does
the E-1 set.

Tim O'Connor

One more question that perhaps someone familiar with Mark Vaughan's decals can help with (I can find the decals listed at DesPlaines Hobbies' site, but can find no detailed description or illustrations anywhere online). Which Vaughan decal set number(s) have the large Wabash flag and 9-inch car numbers, as per NJII 4254 in the Sands photo?

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:14 PM, devansprr wrote:

Outside of the taper, and the number of ribs, it seems like the
various prototype cars had few spotting differences outside of safety
appliances? (and the obvious peak vs flat ends) Can someone educate
me?
Dave,
When looking at the various 50-ton AAR hopper cars that were built, one
of the key features I look at to distinguish one version from another
is the shape of the side sills. The earliest version (used from 1934 to
1949) had side sills that angled upward from the bolsters to the
corners and were straight between the bolsters. A later version (used
from 1940-1960) had side sills that were level with the track from the
bolsters to the corners and had a shallow fish-belly between the
bolsters. Note there's a 10-year overlap from 1940-1949 where new cars
could have either version. By the way, the same side sill variations
were present on 70-ton AAR offset-side hoppers.

The Atlas model has side sills representing the early version while the
Athearn and Kadee models have side sills representing the later
version. The image of the model on the Accurail web site shows a side
sill of the early version.

Then, of course, there are the differences in how the side sheets
nearest the ends were formed as well as a variety of different end
arrangements. The combinations of all of these variations are
practically endless, not to mention other more subtle differences and
specialty items.

Some ends with flat tops used angles extending from the top of the end
to the end sills, others used channels extending from the bottom of the
end sheets to the end sills, and some used closely spaced Z-sections.
Further variations include ends having extensions (i.e., peaked
ends/heap shields) of various shapes. All of these combinations add to
the complexity and cost of tooling.

It's my understanding that Accurail is using the same end configuration
for their 50-ton model as they used on their 70-ton model. It
represents (poorly in my opinion) an end arrangement having Z-section
vertical supports that are closely spaced near the middle. The
Z-sections on the model aren't Z-sections, and instead are rectangular
cross sections, because otherwise the body could not be ejected from
the mold. Unfortunately, combining this end with the side arrangement
creates a very rare prototype 50-ton AAR hopper car.

There are other end arrangements that would be a better choice for more
road names. It comes down to the tooling cost involved with making
other variants. Since Accurail already had the end tooled from their
70-ton model, they chose economy by reusing the end despite the
relative rarity of the car that will be offered. Depending on sales
once the models are released, perhaps Accurail might be open to
offering other end variations that were more commonly found on
prototype 50-ton AAR Standard hopper cars.

My intent is NOT to hurt Accurail sales, but rather to help educate
consumers in making an informed decision on what they buy. To that end
I will be happy to assist any manufacturer interested in producing
accurate models of AAR hopper cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Pre-Trip Inspection

kenneth broomfield
 

OK that is an easy one. I am employed as a Carman for Kansas City Southern Railroad in Jackson, MS. As to the difference for than and now, I can say that there is probably very little.
 
Basically when the yard switcher gets the cut of cars ready in a track the yard office, assistant train master, will call us Carman and tell us something like I have 50 cars in track 8 for the train number. We will go out and lock out and blue flag the track. If there are motors on the cut of cars we will put a blue light on the lead motor, and use the motor for the air process. If not we have ground air going to the middle of every two tracks at the end of the track. We will begin by tying at least three hand brakes on the beginning of every cut. We will procede by going through inspecting for mechanical defects ie.. loose hand holds, low couplers, wheels defects basically anything that was missed on an inbound inspection, or has since been messed up. We will be lacing the air hoses all the way down the cars and proced till we get to the end. There we will make sure that it has the proper air pressure on the last car. When that is achevied we
will go back to the head end and begin to test the air brakes. Will will bleed the cars down the 20 lbs. of air pressure to suffeciently set the brakes up. We will than go back through. This time a little faster because all we are looking at it the brake pistons. They have to be all set up. One of us would have stayed at the head end to than release the brakes. That person will than release the air brakes and we will go back though looking to make sure all were released. When this is accomplished we will than go back to the head end and remove the air and test device from the head car and unlock removing blue flags and lock and go back to our office to tell the yard office about any bad orders that they need to kick out before the train leaves. We will leave a EOT at the head end so that the train crew can hang it and arm it to the motor. This is just about the only step that would have been different back in
the steam era. We average about a minute a car for the entire process unless we run into some air charging process or repairs that we carman need to make, I am talking about things that are bad but not bad enough to go to the rip track.  
 
Kenny Broomfield

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Bob C <thecitrusbelt@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Bob C <thecitrusbelt@yahoo.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pre-Trip Inspection
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 10:46 AM


 



Freight cars in the steam era...as in the subject of this group.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, kenneth broomfield <newtmachineworks@ ...> wrote:

As far as what? Freight cars? Train make up? Air brake test? Diesel? Steam? What?
 
Kenny Broomfield

--- On Sat, 11/14/09, Bob C <thecitrusbelt@ ...> wrote:


From: Bob C <thecitrusbelt@ ...>
Subject: [STMFC] Pre-Trip Inspection
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 3:21 PM


 



Does someone have a good definition of a pre-trip inspection, preferably from a rule book or manual?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA













Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, water.kresse@... wrote:

Not being a modeler . . .

I believe there were basically three types of "patented/licensed" ARA/AAR transitional end side-panels being used:

1) 1928 Enterprise and Wine designs

2) 1931 Kiesel design

Which model-style is defined as a long taper vs. short taper?

Long-taper = top panel break goes all the way to the corner post (1931 AAR Kiesel)?

Short-taper = top panel break goes to edge of the "ladder-flat" (1928 ARA licensed by Wine)?

The Enterprise design has more panel breaks.

Al Kresse
Based on Al's description, it sound like the Atlas, Kadee, and Athearn offset twins are the long-taper design, while the drawing on Accurail's site would suggest the "short-taper" design.

The RPI site does include some self-confessed confusion on how to describe the taper. The RPI on-line photographs show all three of Al's configurations. It could be that Accurail may be providing the short-taper model not available previously, but only an exam of the model will provide confirmation. The drawing provided would rule out the Enterprise design that Al describes above.

Does this make sense?

Dave Evans


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

rwitt_2000
 

Al Kresse wrote:



Not being a modeler . . .



I believe there were basically three types of "patented/licensed"
ARA/AAR transitional end side-panels being used:

1) 1928 Enterprise and Wine designs

2) 1931 Kiesel design



Which model-style is defined as a long taper vs. short taper?



Long-taper = top panel break goes all the way to the corner post (1931
AAR Kiesel)?



Short-taper = top panel break goes to edge of the "ladder-flat" (1928
ARA licensed by Wine)?



The Enterprise design has more panel breaks.




The descriptive terms of "tapered" and "step" have been used to
described how the off-set side returns to the end panel. Most examples I
have seen would be "short " with a "stepped" or "taper" return to the
end panel. The "stepped" end panel is the one I associate with
Enterprise and the earlier ARA designs also use on the quad and triple
hoppers of that period. For the B&O it was the class W-2, which were
built with "Hat" braces for the off-set side rather than the angles used
on the later AAR designs.

The articles in the RP Cyc clearly describe all the differences in the
ARA/AAR twin off-set side hoppers. As Ed Hawkins has pointed out many
time on this list, the type of end braces and their locations determine
if a model is appropriate for a given railroad. From many photos, he
also has documented which way the angles face on the sides.

Of the current offerings, the Atlas model has press steel ends and model
the earlier version of the AAR standard twin hopper built beginning in
the mid-1930s. The Athearn and Kadee model have widely spaced angle end
braces, which appeared later. The B&O and ACL and some other railroads
had angled ends, but spaced closer together. Of course the B&O hoppers
had Duryea underframes just to add another variation.

From the "technical drawing" of the new off-set side hopper from
Accurail, it appears to follow the AAR standard with an IL of 33'-0". We
don't know what end bracing they have used on the model. May be Dennis
will provide more details about this new model. Also in the tradition
of Accurail hopefully they will substitute different "sides" and produce
the AAR "alternate" off-set twin hopper as a future release.

Regards,

Bob Witt

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