Date   

Re: M. Vaughn Decals

Tim O'Connor
 

Francis, here is the list of Mark's decals with descriptions.
The set you asked about is the "P" set. The sets marked "**"
were originally available from George Drake, DDS.
Tim O'Connor

---------------------------------------
Set Description

A **|WABASH 3-color set blue/white/black w/book
B **|WABASH individual white sheet
C **|WABASH individual blue sheet
D **|WABASH individual black sheet
E-1 **|WABASH boxcars steam era (4)
E-2 **|WABASH boxcars steam-diesel era (4)
E-3 |WABASH boxcars diesel era (4)
F |WABASH cylindrical covered hopper
| w/ letter guide & color slide
G-1 **|WABASH diesel solid blue units
G-2 **|WABASH diesel multicolor units
G-3 **|WABASH flag logos multicolor and reverse
G-4 **|WABASH diesel switchers
G-5 |WABASH diesel switchers aluminum colors
H |WABASH flatcars (2) w/ letter guide
I |ILLINOIS TERMINAL airslide (1) w/ letter guide
J |GM&O covered hoppers (5) w/ letter guide
K |photos of GM&O covered hoppers (7) specify slides/prints
L |PRR airslides (2) w/ letter guide
M |ILLINOIS TERMINAL RBL DD boxcar 2 choices w/ letter guide
N **|WABASH passenger cars and express boxcar
| w/ letter guide Yellow block letters
O **|WABASH passenger cars Red/Black for UP scheme w/ letter guide
P |60 ft autoparts boxcars C&EI/DTS/PRR/WAB (4) w/ letter guide
Q |C&IM RBL PD boxcar w/ letter guide requires CHAMP HB304
R **|NKP piggyback trailers 2 blue 1 silver w/ letter guide
S **|WABASH caboose (5) all variations!
T **|M&StL boxcars white letters (2) w/ letter guide
U-1 |M&StL open top hoppers (2)
V-1 |M&StL covered hoppers pre-1956 (2) grey car
V-2 |M&StL covered hoppers pre-1956 (2) black car
V-3 |M&StL covered hopper post-1956 (1) grey car
W |M&StL wood reefers late scheme (2) w/ letter guide
X |C&EI road diesel (2) includes stripes etc w/ letter guide
Y |WABASH sand covered hopper OVERLAND #3246
Z |M&StL 3 bay cov hopper slogan LIMITED EDITION
AA **|WABASH stockcars (3)
BB |M&StL boxcars -- 2 different cars w/ Yellow and White letters
CC |WABASH open top hoppers (8 types) plus AA car
EE-1 |M&StL caboose pre-1956 w/ letter guide
EE-2 |M&StL caboose post-1956 w/ letter guide
FF |MILW 70t 3 bay covered hopper w/ letter guide requires HERALD
HH |M&StL RS-1 diesel red/white scheme
II |Peoria & Eastern caboose & boxcar (Jade Green)
JJ |Van Dyke tankcar
KK |NYC diesels (late scheme)
MM-2 |P&E open top hopper 1949-1966 intermediate
OO |IHB 40 foot boxcars (2 cars)
NN |NKP flat cars
RR |NYC stock car
96-2 |NH boxcar PS1 (use with Champ HN-7)
96-3 |NYC Early Bird 50 ft box car (need HB-335)
96-4 |L&M RS-3 and caboose
100 |Milwaukee ice service reefers blue scheme (2)
101 |W&LE box cars (2)
102 |DSS&A pulpwood flat (not exactly accurate)
104 |Fort St Union Depot NW-5
105 |NYC covered hoppers 1 airslide 1 2-bay
106 |NYC RDC Budd car
107 |
108 |Clinchfield 60' DP box car Greenville

--------------------------------------------

At 11/18/2009 02:20 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Does anyone know what is contained in decal set MEVP 60' Con-Cor Auto Parts Car?

Thanks!
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.


Re: Accurail Offset Twin

Jim Hayes
 

Answering a little for Dennis, Athearn blue box kits have been discontinued.
And Accurail kits have always been a step up from Athearn and more accurate.
They may not be craftsman kits but with just a little work can be darn good
looking.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. <
rdgbuff56@yahoo.com> wrote:



Dennis,
I have a question. Is it worth the chance and expense to put another car on
the market that has been done more than a couple of times before. It is
already known that some shortcuts (leeway) have been taken to put this in
production. Can you really make enough to have money to invest in future
products? The Athearn car is fairly inexpensive and readily works for
modelers who operate. If you need a well detailed car that might be
different. I would think most modelers are looking for something new, not a
rehash.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.

________________________________
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com <destorzek%40mchsi.com>>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 5:33:42 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Accurail Offset Twin

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@.. .> wrote:

Dennis, does Accurail intend to offer this with heap shields?

Bill Welch
Bill,

Not at the present. The tooling was originally designed so it could be done
with changeable inserts, until we realized that that would leave an
objectionable "witness line" across what is supposed to be a flat continuous
sheet. Since few of the triples had heap shields, we decided not to do it..
When designing the twin, I see from Ed's roster that almost all the cars
with heap shields are the AAR Alt. design, with the exception of L&N. Since
these paint schemes are stand-ins at best anyway, we again decided not to
worry about it. I can't say that we'll never do it, especially if someone
wanted to commission a large custom run, but I don't see that happening. It
will take new end inserts.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Accurail Offset Twin

rdgbuff56
 

Dennis,
I have a question. Is it worth the chance and expense to put another car on the market that has been done more than a couple of times before. It is already known that some shortcuts (leeway) have been taken to put this in production. Can you really make enough to have money to invest in future products? The Athearn car is fairly inexpensive and readily works for modelers who operate. If you need a well detailed car that might be different. I would think most modelers are looking for something new, not a rehash.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.




________________________________
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 5:33:42 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Accurail Offset Twin




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@.. .> wrote:

Dennis, does Accurail intend to offer this with heap shields?

Bill Welch
Bill,

Not at the present. The tooling was originally designed so it could be done with changeable inserts, until we realized that that would leave an objectionable "witness line" across what is supposed to be a flat continuous sheet. Since few of the triples had heap shields, we decided not to do it.. When designing the twin, I see from Ed's roster that almost all the cars with heap shields are the AAR Alt. design, with the exception of L&N. Since these paint schemes are stand-ins at best anyway, we again decided not to worry about it. I can't say that we'll never do it, especially if someone wanted to commission a large custom run, but I don't see that happening. It will take new end inserts.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.


Re: Accurail Offset Twin

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Dennis, does Accurail intend to offer this with heap shields?

Bill Welch
Bill,

Not at the present. The tooling was originally designed so it could be done with changeable inserts, until we realized that that would leave an objectionable "witness line" across what is supposed to be a flat continuous sheet. Since few of the triples had heap shields, we decided not to do it. When designing the twin, I see from Ed's roster that almost all the cars with heap shields are the AAR Alt. design, with the exception of L&N. Since these paint schemes are stand-ins at best anyway, we again decided not to worry about it. I can't say that we'll never do it, especially if someone wanted to commission a large custom run, but I don't see that happening. It will take new end inserts.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.


Gold Medal Models HO buffer plate

Bill Welch
 

Rob

I could not find this item on the GMM website or a part number similar to it

Bill Welch


Accurail Offset Twin

Bill Welch
 

Dennis, does Accurail intend to offer this with heap shields?

Bill Welch


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

Dennis Storzek
 

Well, glad someone finally noticed we are releasing a twin hopper.

The prototype is basically the AAR standard car as illustrated in the 1940 Car Builder's Cyclopedia, although we actually used several P-S drawings from the Pullman Library of the Illinois Railway Museum for data. This car has a 33'-0" IL. One difference is the Z bar end posts as opposed to the pressed channel sections only below the slope sheet. The car does have the angled end sections on the side sills, as Ed Hawkins mentioned, same as our 70 ton triple hopper. In fact, the entire end of the car as far in as the bolsters is the same as the 70 ton car, because as Ed surmised, we are re-using the cavity inserts from the 70 ton car tooling. We are also using the same detail parts: brake equipment, rugged sill steps, slope sheet braces, and hopper doors that are used in that kit.

All this short / long taper stuff is getting confusing, because most offset cars have a taper from the bolster to the corner post, no matter how they look from the side. Ed worked out what I think is a better terminology in his article in RP Cyc No.1; AAR Standard, Alternate Standard, and non-standard offset twin hoppers. What we are doing follows the AAR standard design. The end panels taper from the bolster to the corner post, but the line where this taper meets the inward slope of the top of the side sheet terminates about 18" from the corner; because of this the top chord of the sides have a bend at that point, giving the car somewhat of a bowl shape in plan view. The Alt. Standard cars have a completely straight top chord, and therefore the line where the two angles meet runs all the way to the corner, and this line is not parallel to the slope sheet. These cars also use hat section stakes, so the rivet pattern differes from the AAR Standard car. I was willing to tool the new inserts to model the hat section stakes, until I realized that this always goes along with the "long" taper line on the end panel; since the budget was based on using the existing tooling parts, I abandoned that idea and did the standard car. What Ed calls "non-standard" cars typically have a double bend offset in the last panel, and again have a straight top chord, I think. I don't actually have any fabrication drawings for a car of this type, so haven't actually studied the geometry.

This is one problem with thinking that one can just change the end panels of the side to produce the different versions. When one actually looks at the situation in 3-D, one finds that the shape of that end panel also affects the shape of both the inside of the car and the area under the slope sheet, and necessitates re-doing a lot more of the tool than is at first evident. This is not a case where modular design is going to be effective. Maybe someone will tool one of these minor variations someday, but the lure of thirty-some roadnames on nearly identical cars is hard to resist. We'll leave those versions for companies that like to do $42 cars. Our kits will be one third that price.

The tooling is complete and we had test shots and a built up kit at the show in Milwaukee. At Accurail test shots are done to check cavity finish and venting issues, not to see if the geometry was correct so we can build it right the second time. The tool is presently back together and waiting it's turn after the parts for the new autorack with side panels to finish molding, and they should start showing up in the shops before Christmas.

Now to tool a coal load, since the load we do to fit Athearn cars is too wide.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.


M. Vaughn Decals

rdgbuff56
 

Does anyone know what is contained in decal set MEVP 60' Con-Cor Auto Parts Car?

Thanks!
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.


Re: NJI&I 4100-4270 boxcars running board type

Tim O'Connor
 

Chris, sets E-2 and E-3 each have the flag etc that you want.
Each set has NJI&I reporting marks for only one car, as does
the E-1 set.

Tim O'Connor

One more question that perhaps someone familiar with Mark Vaughan's decals can help with (I can find the decals listed at DesPlaines Hobbies' site, but can find no detailed description or illustrations anywhere online). Which Vaughan decal set number(s) have the large Wabash flag and 9-inch car numbers, as per NJII 4254 in the Sands photo?

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:14 PM, devansprr wrote:

Outside of the taper, and the number of ribs, it seems like the
various prototype cars had few spotting differences outside of safety
appliances? (and the obvious peak vs flat ends) Can someone educate
me?
Dave,
When looking at the various 50-ton AAR hopper cars that were built, one
of the key features I look at to distinguish one version from another
is the shape of the side sills. The earliest version (used from 1934 to
1949) had side sills that angled upward from the bolsters to the
corners and were straight between the bolsters. A later version (used
from 1940-1960) had side sills that were level with the track from the
bolsters to the corners and had a shallow fish-belly between the
bolsters. Note there's a 10-year overlap from 1940-1949 where new cars
could have either version. By the way, the same side sill variations
were present on 70-ton AAR offset-side hoppers.

The Atlas model has side sills representing the early version while the
Athearn and Kadee models have side sills representing the later
version. The image of the model on the Accurail web site shows a side
sill of the early version.

Then, of course, there are the differences in how the side sheets
nearest the ends were formed as well as a variety of different end
arrangements. The combinations of all of these variations are
practically endless, not to mention other more subtle differences and
specialty items.

Some ends with flat tops used angles extending from the top of the end
to the end sills, others used channels extending from the bottom of the
end sheets to the end sills, and some used closely spaced Z-sections.
Further variations include ends having extensions (i.e., peaked
ends/heap shields) of various shapes. All of these combinations add to
the complexity and cost of tooling.

It's my understanding that Accurail is using the same end configuration
for their 50-ton model as they used on their 70-ton model. It
represents (poorly in my opinion) an end arrangement having Z-section
vertical supports that are closely spaced near the middle. The
Z-sections on the model aren't Z-sections, and instead are rectangular
cross sections, because otherwise the body could not be ejected from
the mold. Unfortunately, combining this end with the side arrangement
creates a very rare prototype 50-ton AAR hopper car.

There are other end arrangements that would be a better choice for more
road names. It comes down to the tooling cost involved with making
other variants. Since Accurail already had the end tooled from their
70-ton model, they chose economy by reusing the end despite the
relative rarity of the car that will be offered. Depending on sales
once the models are released, perhaps Accurail might be open to
offering other end variations that were more commonly found on
prototype 50-ton AAR Standard hopper cars.

My intent is NOT to hurt Accurail sales, but rather to help educate
consumers in making an informed decision on what they buy. To that end
I will be happy to assist any manufacturer interested in producing
accurate models of AAR hopper cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Pre-Trip Inspection

kenneth broomfield
 

OK that is an easy one. I am employed as a Carman for Kansas City Southern Railroad in Jackson, MS. As to the difference for than and now, I can say that there is probably very little.
 
Basically when the yard switcher gets the cut of cars ready in a track the yard office, assistant train master, will call us Carman and tell us something like I have 50 cars in track 8 for the train number. We will go out and lock out and blue flag the track. If there are motors on the cut of cars we will put a blue light on the lead motor, and use the motor for the air process. If not we have ground air going to the middle of every two tracks at the end of the track. We will begin by tying at least three hand brakes on the beginning of every cut. We will procede by going through inspecting for mechanical defects ie.. loose hand holds, low couplers, wheels defects basically anything that was missed on an inbound inspection, or has since been messed up. We will be lacing the air hoses all the way down the cars and proced till we get to the end. There we will make sure that it has the proper air pressure on the last car. When that is achevied we
will go back to the head end and begin to test the air brakes. Will will bleed the cars down the 20 lbs. of air pressure to suffeciently set the brakes up. We will than go back through. This time a little faster because all we are looking at it the brake pistons. They have to be all set up. One of us would have stayed at the head end to than release the brakes. That person will than release the air brakes and we will go back though looking to make sure all were released. When this is accomplished we will than go back to the head end and remove the air and test device from the head car and unlock removing blue flags and lock and go back to our office to tell the yard office about any bad orders that they need to kick out before the train leaves. We will leave a EOT at the head end so that the train crew can hang it and arm it to the motor. This is just about the only step that would have been different back in
the steam era. We average about a minute a car for the entire process unless we run into some air charging process or repairs that we carman need to make, I am talking about things that are bad but not bad enough to go to the rip track.  
 
Kenny Broomfield

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Bob C <thecitrusbelt@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Bob C <thecitrusbelt@yahoo.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pre-Trip Inspection
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 10:46 AM


 



Freight cars in the steam era...as in the subject of this group.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, kenneth broomfield <newtmachineworks@ ...> wrote:

As far as what? Freight cars? Train make up? Air brake test? Diesel? Steam? What?
 
Kenny Broomfield

--- On Sat, 11/14/09, Bob C <thecitrusbelt@ ...> wrote:


From: Bob C <thecitrusbelt@ ...>
Subject: [STMFC] Pre-Trip Inspection
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 3:21 PM


 



Does someone have a good definition of a pre-trip inspection, preferably from a rule book or manual?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA













Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, water.kresse@... wrote:

Not being a modeler . . .

I believe there were basically three types of "patented/licensed" ARA/AAR transitional end side-panels being used:

1) 1928 Enterprise and Wine designs

2) 1931 Kiesel design

Which model-style is defined as a long taper vs. short taper?

Long-taper = top panel break goes all the way to the corner post (1931 AAR Kiesel)?

Short-taper = top panel break goes to edge of the "ladder-flat" (1928 ARA licensed by Wine)?

The Enterprise design has more panel breaks.

Al Kresse
Based on Al's description, it sound like the Atlas, Kadee, and Athearn offset twins are the long-taper design, while the drawing on Accurail's site would suggest the "short-taper" design.

The RPI site does include some self-confessed confusion on how to describe the taper. The RPI on-line photographs show all three of Al's configurations. It could be that Accurail may be providing the short-taper model not available previously, but only an exam of the model will provide confirmation. The drawing provided would rule out the Enterprise design that Al describes above.

Does this make sense?

Dave Evans


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

rwitt_2000
 

Al Kresse wrote:



Not being a modeler . . .



I believe there were basically three types of "patented/licensed"
ARA/AAR transitional end side-panels being used:

1) 1928 Enterprise and Wine designs

2) 1931 Kiesel design



Which model-style is defined as a long taper vs. short taper?



Long-taper = top panel break goes all the way to the corner post (1931
AAR Kiesel)?



Short-taper = top panel break goes to edge of the "ladder-flat" (1928
ARA licensed by Wine)?



The Enterprise design has more panel breaks.




The descriptive terms of "tapered" and "step" have been used to
described how the off-set side returns to the end panel. Most examples I
have seen would be "short " with a "stepped" or "taper" return to the
end panel. The "stepped" end panel is the one I associate with
Enterprise and the earlier ARA designs also use on the quad and triple
hoppers of that period. For the B&O it was the class W-2, which were
built with "Hat" braces for the off-set side rather than the angles used
on the later AAR designs.

The articles in the RP Cyc clearly describe all the differences in the
ARA/AAR twin off-set side hoppers. As Ed Hawkins has pointed out many
time on this list, the type of end braces and their locations determine
if a model is appropriate for a given railroad. From many photos, he
also has documented which way the angles face on the sides.

Of the current offerings, the Atlas model has press steel ends and model
the earlier version of the AAR standard twin hopper built beginning in
the mid-1930s. The Athearn and Kadee model have widely spaced angle end
braces, which appeared later. The B&O and ACL and some other railroads
had angled ends, but spaced closer together. Of course the B&O hoppers
had Duryea underframes just to add another variation.

From the "technical drawing" of the new off-set side hopper from
Accurail, it appears to follow the AAR standard with an IL of 33'-0". We
don't know what end bracing they have used on the model. May be Dennis
will provide more details about this new model. Also in the tradition
of Accurail hopefully they will substitute different "sides" and produce
the AAR "alternate" off-set twin hopper as a future release.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

Bill Welch
 

Although I would have appreciated something with separately applied grabs, this could be useful if they do the versions with heap shields also.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "sctry" <JGreedy@...> wrote:

My understanding is that the new twin hopper will be a"standard" offset style utilizing the same detail sprues as the Accurail 3-bay 70t hopper.

John Greedy

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "devansprr" <devans1@> wrote:

I see Accurail has announced a new Offset twin hopper on their web site. I have searched the archives here and found no mention. Is this brand new and not yet discussed? It will be interesting to see which design it will be - I am not offset hopper knowledgeable (what can I say, I am an admitted SPF... my name is Dave...). Hopefully it will be a pre-war, or WWII design. I know I need some foreign road offsets, and I see B&O had at least 3000 of them during WWII (Thanks to Ben Hom for his B&O modeling hopper article), and that C&O had a bunch too. To date, only the Atlas twin offset has been available in styrene(??), and being hoppers, a fleet is required, so resin is too time consuming. The Kadee twin offset seems to be a post-war car?

While Athearn may have abandoned the kit business, and red caboose tooling is for sale, kudos to Accurail for cranking out new tooling!

Thoughts?

Dave Evans


Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

water.kresse@...
 

Not being a modeler . . .



I believe there were basically three types of "patented/licensed" ARA/AAR transitional end side-panels being used:

1) 1928 Enterprise and Wine designs

2) 1931 Kiesel design



Which model-style is defined as a long taper vs. short taper?



Long-taper = top panel break goes all the way to the corner post (1931 AAR Kiesel)?



Short-taper = top panel break goes to edge of the "ladder-flat" (1928 ARA licensed by Wine)?



The Enterprise design has more panel breaks.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "devansprr" <devans1@erols.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:14:59 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Looks like an AAR standard twin... again... for the fourth time in HO...
whahoo yippee ky-ay.

Tim,

I am aware of 3 offset twins - Atlas, Kadee, Athearn, and ?

What are the significant differences between the pre-war offset twins?

Looking through the RPI site, they characterize the accurail design as a "long-taper" car, and the Alton 61099 photo is one possible match. The B&O N-35 is another possible match, as might be the L&NE, L&N, Southern and other offsets. The Reading HTt class looks to be a good match.

The Atlas offset seems to be of the same "long-taper" type, so perhaps the Accurail will be just like the Atlas?

Seems like the "short taper" offset twin still eludes us?

Looking through the RPI site, it looks like the vast majority of offset twins were 33-34 feet, but some early cars were 30'. The accurail site does not state the length.

Outside of the taper, and the number of ribs, it seems like the various prototype cars had few spotting differences outside of safety appliances? (and the obvious peak vs flat ends) Can someone educate me?

Dave Evans


Re: CHAMP DECALS

Joseph Lofland
 

Bill, you can just go on their web site and check. You can order there
also. They are quite efficient in filling oders.

Joe Lofland

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 8:08 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@hawaii.rr.com>wrote:




Does anyone know if Champ is still selling down their inventory of
decals?

If so do we know how to contact them?

Thanks:

Bill Pardie


Re: We need a short taper twin - was Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper

Rich C
 

Like Tim said "whahoo yippee ky-ay". We really need a short tapered twin. RPI mentioned a kitbash with the Athearn Quad, but it would be difficult because the middle seam would be difficult to hide.
 
Rich C

--- On Tue, 11/17/09, devansprr <devans1@erols.com> wrote:


From: devansprr <devans1@erols.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 10:14 PM


 





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...> wrote:


Looks like an AAR standard twin... again... for the fourth time in HO...
whahoo yippee ky-ay.

Tim,

I am aware of 3 offset twins - Atlas, Kadee, Athearn, and ?

What are the significant differences between the pre-war offset twins?

Looking through the RPI site, they characterize the accurail design as a "long-taper" car, and the Alton 61099 photo is one possible match. The B&O N-35 is another possible match, as might be the L&NE, L&N, Southern and other offsets. The Reading HTt class looks to be a good match.

The Atlas offset seems to be of the same "long-taper" type, so perhaps the Accurail will be just like the Atlas?

Seems like the "short taper" offset twin still eludes us?

Looking through the RPI site, it looks like the vast majority of offset twins were 33-34 feet, but some early cars were 30'. The accurail site does not state the length.

Outside of the taper, and the number of ribs, it seems like the various prototype cars had few spotting differences outside of safety appliances? (and the obvious peak vs flat ends) Can someone educate me?

Dave Evans











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NJI&I 4100-4270 boxcars running board type

leakinmywaders
 

Thanks, Chet and Ed. Your answers solve a number of small mysteries that had been bothering me, and confirm what I had come to conclude shortly after my posting, that this was a nonuniform series. It both explains why some of this series were 8-panel cars and made clear what should have occurred to me before-- for a model of the 8-panel car I am going to have to find an appropriate underframe, which won't be the AAR standard.

One more question that perhaps someone familiar with Mark Vaughan's decals can help with (I can find the decals listed at DesPlaines Hobbies' site, but can find no detailed description or illustrations anywhere online). Which Vaughan decal set number(s) have the large Wabash flag and 9-inch car numbers, as per NJII 4254 in the Sands photo?

Best,

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "cef39us" <cfrench@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@> wrote:


On Nov 17, 2009, at 11:13 AM, leakinmywaders wrote:

Does anyone have information on the type of running board and brake
step on 40ft boxcars NJI&I 4100-4270? These are steel 8-panel riveted
cars of 10ft 4 1/2in internal height, 5/5 ends, and--I
think--rectangular panel roofs. From profile view the running boards
appear to be metal. Though akin to standard 1944 AAR design (aside
from the modified side panels side sills continuous between bolsters)
these cars aren't listed in my version of Ed Hawkins' table of 1944
AAR boxcars.

Here's an excellent Jim Sands photo at Fallen Flags:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/wab/njii4254ajs.jpg

Also if anyone has suggestions about decal sources in HO for this
car, I'd welcome that.

Thanks,
Chris Frissell
Chris,
It's best that Chet French reply to your question to provide what you
are looking for.

Note that the car in the photo has 8-panel sides. Cars in the series
NJI&I 4100-4270 came from two different groups, 50 of which were built
as all-steel cars having 10-panel sides (4100-4149) in 1944 and the
others with 8-panel sides as shown in the photo of 4254. It's unclear
to me if 4100-4149 were the original numbers or if Wabash transferred
them to NJI&I from the original WAB 86000-86874.

The 4254 was originally a war emergency box car from WAB 87000-87124
(refer to Pat Wider's article in RP CYC Vol. 19). Circa 1961-62 (out of
scope for this forum) remaining cars were rebuilt as all-steel cars
with 8-panel riveted sides and placed in series 4150-4270. This is why
these cars aren't listed the roster I prepared.

The 10-panel cars in series NJI&I 4100-4149 should be included in the
AAR box car roster, but I must first determine if these were original
numbers or if they were transferred from Wabash 86000-86874, and if
so, the date of the transfer. There may have been some other cars
renumbered because in 4/51 there were only 607 cars listed in series
WAB 86000-86874.


Chris and Ed,

The NJI&I 4100-4149 series cars were built new by Decatur shop in
1944, at the same time the second group of Wabash 86000 series
cars were being built. Wabash 86000-86519 were built in 1942, and
86520-86874 in 1944. The reason for the decreased number of cars in the 86000 series after 1950 was a result of 263 cars being sent in September of that year to the Evans Co., in Plymouth, Mich.,for application of DF utility loaders. The randomly selected cars were
equipped and renumbered 9000-9199 and 9300-9362.

Two fifty car lots of the Wabash war emergency cars, rebuilt into all-steel cars, were sent to the NJI&I in August (4150-4199) and November
(4200-4249) 1960. My detailed records end in December 1960. It appears that NJI&I 4254 was from a group of cars turned out be Decatur shop in January 1961. Looks like a XD 1-61 reweigh date on the car.

Here is where my research hasn't ended. The NJI&I 4254 is painted in what I have referred to as the 1961 scheme. This large flag scheme was introduced on the last new 40'-6" box cars purchased by the Wabash
in 1961, the 91000-91514 series cars with a nine foot door opening.
I have not seen a photo of a car in the 4150-4249 series, so I do not know if the large flag lettering scheme was authorized prior to 1961, to be used on the cars outshopped in August and November 1960, or did those 100 cars get the small flag?

Chris, I imagine the rebuilt war emergency cars kept their Apex Tri-Lok running boards and brake step, and Miner hand brakes. Mark Vaughan sells Wabash box car decals. You need the set with the large flags and nine inch car numbers.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Gold Medal Models HO buffer plate

Robert kirkham
 

I'm hoping perhaps someone on the list has purchased some of these Gold Medal Models parts - they look suitable for a tank car I'm modelling. While I could use the HO version, part 3500, the HOn3 part, no. 3501, looks more appropriate. But there are no dimensions on the web site so I am wondering what the width of the opening for the coupler would be on each part. So - by chance - is there anyone one the list that has some of these and is able to advise?

Rob Kirkham
Part 3501


Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (GN, WP Interchange At Bieber)

Allen Rueter
 

Al,
Actually my interests lie a little further north, the OT, if you have a GN time table, does it not show
the ruling grades?, the one steam era one I saw once did. GN was known for trying to run trains
at maximum tonnage. If you look at Austin & Dill's book, you will see double headed N-3s. As someone else pointed out, it's fairly flat K-Falls to Bieber. It may of been that GN only shows the local on its scheduled , all through trains could extras. ETTs are only a clue. I know from talking to a conductor of my
other favorite, the Wabash, that an extra ran seven days a week for years, yet it doesn't show up
in any timetable, making it look like there were more east bounds then west bounds, when it really was closer to equal, but tonnage wise it was more west bound (got to love that coal).

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________
From: Al Daumann <sp-blackwidow@sbcglobal.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 10:37:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (GN, WP Interchange At Bieber)


Allen,
Thanks for the reply. Since you are researching Bieber in 1947, I'll assume we share somewhat of a common interest in that place and time.

My freelanced railroad (Burney, Redding & Western) interchanges with both the GN and the WP in Bieber. I have some questions, which you may have some information about, regarding the coordination (or lack thereof) of the WP and GN arrivals and departures in Bieber. Did the bulk of the GN train become the WP and vice versa? If so, why are there twice as many WP trains as GN (I recognize the timetables are ofset by 2.5 years, which might explain the whole difference)? I'd like to see a GN timetable from 1947 or a WP timetable from 1950 for Bieber to come arrivals and departures.

I have an original WP Western Division Timetable (34) dated June 1, 1947. I also have a copy of a GN Klamath Division Timetable (10) dated January 1, 1950.

The WP timetable lists four "regular / scheduled" trains per day arriving or departing Bieber:
1) Eastward 2nd Class #154 Western Pacific Fast Freight arriving 2:00 AM
2) Eastward 2nd Class #178 Western Pacific Fast Freight arriving 10:40 AM
3) Westward 2nd Class #153 Western Pacific Fast Freight departing 12:30 AM
4) Westward 2nd Class #177 Western Pacific Fast Freight departing 1:00 PM

The GN timetable lists two "regular / scheduled" trains per day arriving or departing Bieber:
1) Eastward 2nd Class #386 departing 3:00 AM
2) Westward 2nd Class #387 arriving 6:55 PM

Again, I'm curious how the cars were routed / forwarded through Bieber to/from the GN to/from the WP.

Thanks in advance.

Al Daumann



____________ _________ _________ __

From: Allen Rueter <allen_282@yahoo. com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 8:15:16 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars

Al,
I'm working on transcribing what some refer to as a jumbo book, it is a log of cars received and forwarded at Bieber 1947, Oct-Dec.
The log book is ordered by the last two digits, with in a pair of pages it is ordered by the last 3 digits of the car number.
so *02 covers cars where the last two digits are 02, clear as mud?

If you look in the files section, you will some detailed ones that end in 00
( http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/STMFC/ files/gn% 20wp%20station% 20log%20bieber% 20/ )
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Al Daumann <sp-blackwidow@ sbcglobal. net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 11:19:02 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars

Greetings,
I'm new to the group, does this refer to an earlier discussion? I model a freelanced road that interchanges with the GN at Bieber (Nubieber) in the late 1940s. I'm always looking for new / addtional information.

What does *02 cars stand for?

Al Daumann

____________ _________ _________ __
From: allen_282 <allen_282@yahoo. com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 8:31:00 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars

cars numbers ending with 02 at Bieber 4th quarter out of 259
GN - 40 - tho 2 cars make up 30 entries, with 2-5 day cycle times.
ATsf - 29
Rg/DRG - 28
SP - 17
PFE - 14
Pa/PRR - 12
BO - 8
CBQ - 7
NYC - 7
UTLX -7
IC - 5
RI - 5
Sou - 5
UP - 5
WP - 5
TCX -4
CO - 3
CSVX - 3 (all same car)
DLW - 3
FGE - 3
GATX - 3
LN - 3
Milw - 3
REX - 3
SCCX - 3
strays - ACL,ART,BLE, CGW,CEI,CNW, CRP,CRR, Erie, HTCX, MP, NH, NKP,
NP, NS, NW, PM, Pmcky (SF)Rd , SAL, SLSF, UCR, Wab, WLE

Allen Rueter
while watching the Packers win :)

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