Date   

Re: Christmas Trees by Rail

Robert kirkham
 

I think a lot changed with the artificial tree. Not sure when those really took off sales wise in North America, but they were certainly common enough when Schultz did Charlie Brown's Christmas. Of course the artificial trees would be shipped too - but not necessarily on the same time line as age wouldn't spoil them

Robert Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jon Miller" <atsf@izap.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:56 AM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Christmas Trees by Rail

I'm guessing shipping by rail was most of Dec. (maybe late Nov.) until
the 25. It seems that ** trees were put up differently in the steam era
than now. I remember ours went up the 24th and came down the 1st., at least
in the 40s. As this list goes to 60 the purchasing time window would have
changed and I suspect by 60 they weren't delivered by train anymore.
Thoughts?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



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Re: Christmas Trees by Rail

Robert kirkham
 

Likewise, the newspaper article I referenced earlier was of a boxcar load of trees.

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:42 AM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Christmas Trees by Rail

Richard Wilkens wrote:
So to "Legally" include Christmas on this list I'll ask the
following, did the railroads that served the Christmas tree growing
areas of North America see all that many shipments of trees by rail?
How were they handled? Box cars? Refrigerator cars? Gondolas?
I've never seen anything in photos except box cars. SP
publicity photos often showed box cars being either loaded or
unloaded, and were included in their Christmas article for the
employee magazine, _SP Bulletin_ most years, so I'd assume they would
use a typical scene.
One exception: as included in my volume on SP flat cars, the
National Christmas Tree, set up every year outside the White House,
was usually shipped on a long flat car. In 1960, SP used a TOFC car
for this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



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Re: Kit instructions: - was Stan's long stock car

Armand Premo
 

Bill,Let me get my oar wet.Wordy instructions just don't cut it.A scale drawing is essential.Photos do help,but most guy rarely read lengthy instructions.Parts should be identified in some manner.After building a few resin cars few bother to read the instruction.There,I stuck my neck out have at it.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Schneider
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Kit instructions: - was Stan's long stock car



Clark commented:
"because they are written just like Stan talks. He did not included (sic) several of the assembly steps"

Sorry Clark, too good to pass up... ! (will duck at Cocoa). Sadly, I have become so used to dealing with Chinese English ("your cars will have been shipped tomorrow"... think about that) that I almost missed it!

Seriously, resin kit instructions run the gamut from "Buy the kit, build the kit, paint the kit" to the "New Testament According to (your favorite "retiring" manufacturer here)". Some assume a certain level of familiarity with the prototype while others will tell you all that you want to know about the prototype - in text - with a minimum of photos.

Personally, I prefer a portfolio of good prototype and model photos along with some basic paragraphs of text explaining parts layout and departures from the norm in assembling the kit. I would assume (rightly or wrongly) a certain level of familiarity with building resin kits, but not always the same comfort level with the prototype. The kit manufacturer has already had to dig up the photos and/or drawings in order to design the kit, so either sharing them or at least pointing to a source would be very helpful for both detail and lettering placement. In may case at least it would prevent me from going to friendly sources on the opposite coast (thanks Dr. RH) to complete decaling a kit after spending untold hours assembling it!

Bill Schneider








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Re: Pennsy box car # PRR81945

Bruce Smith
 

"scott_w_krause" <scott_w_krause@yahoo.com> 11/24/09 6:43 PM >>>
Could someone tell me about PRR 81945 a box car with a dreadnaught end
door. It is in a photograph that appears to be in the late 1940's or
50's. I am looking for what era this car would have been in service and
what class of cars they were in. Were they build for a specific type of
service?

PRR 81945 is class X41a, 81890-82089, built 1946. These cars served
into the PC era.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=x41a.gif&fr=cl

This is a classic "Automobile car". It was likely equipped with
automobile loaders when built, and could be loaded either by the end
door or the side doors. Of course, with the racks stowed, the car could
be used for larger vehicles, or for general lading.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Pennsy box car # PRR81945

Tim O'Connor
 

Scott

PRR 81945 in 1950 is a 50 foot double door X41a box car - no mention
of any end door. The X41a/X41b series were postwar cars. Many of the
X41b's were equipped for LCL and painted in the Merchandise Service
paint scheme. (They were single 7 foot door cars.)

Tim O'Connor

At 11/24/2009 07:42 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
Could someone tell me about PRR 81945 a box car with a dreadnaught end door. It is in a photograph that appears to be in the late 1940's or 50's. I am looking for what era this car would have been in service and what class of cars they were in. Were they build for a specific type of service?


Re: Christmas Trees by Rail

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Interestingly all photos I have seen show Christmas Trees stacked on flatcars with stakes made from long wood poles complete with
bark. Of course these photos date from the 20's and 30's. The trees appear to be tied with twine, in bundles. Then the bundles are
laid on their side on the flatcar.

Perhaps boxcars were used for those trees going further distances.

As for shipping dates, think more the end of Oct through Nov. Even for those whose tradition was to put the tree on Dec 24, the
tree was still cut down at the tree farm in the northern US or Canada in Oct or early Nov. Shipping time along could kill weeks.
As a child in the early 60's I remember the stores and tree lots were all filled with trees by Thanksgiving.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Coke questions

major_denis_bloodnok <smokeandsteam@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
... was immediately recognizable as coke due to the gray color
and "silvery" appearance in certain lighting. I'd assume this was
steelmaking coke.
I'd a gree that there is a certain metallic sheen to many types of coke, but this tends to disappear when it is seen in bulk.

If you want to model coke loads I have had success by dying Woodland Scenics Talus with thinned black Indian ink. This gives a slightly grey finish and simulates the appearance of a load of coke pretty well, though it does not bear up so well when scrutinised at the level of the individual lump

HTH

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Ramona CA


Kit instructions: - was Stan's long stock car

Bill Schneider
 

Clark commented:
"because they are written just like Stan talks. He did not included (sic) several of the assembly steps"

Sorry Clark, too good to pass up... ! (will duck at Cocoa). Sadly, I have become so used to dealing with Chinese English ("your cars will have been shipped tomorrow"... think about that) that I almost missed it!

Seriously, resin kit instructions run the gamut from "Buy the kit, build the kit, paint the kit" to the "New Testament According to (your favorite "retiring" manufacturer here)". Some assume a certain level of familiarity with the prototype while others will tell you all that you want to know about the prototype - in text - with a minimum of photos.

Personally, I prefer a portfolio of good prototype and model photos along with some basic paragraphs of text explaining parts layout and departures from the norm in assembling the kit. I would assume (rightly or wrongly) a certain level of familiarity with building resin kits, but not always the same comfort level with the prototype. The kit manufacturer has already had to dig up the photos and/or drawings in order to design the kit, so either sharing them or at least pointing to a source would be very helpful for both detail and lettering placement. In may case at least it would prevent me from going to friendly sources on the opposite coast (thanks Dr. RH) to complete decaling a kit after spending untold hours assembling it!

Bill Schneider


Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *04 cars

Allen Rueter
 

Lou,
Thanks, I forgot to add it to my normalizing table.

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________
From: LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@verizon.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 3:42:57 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *04 cars


Shouldn't the "stray" FGEX car be included with the three FGE cars?

Thank you very much for compiling this database.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ

____________ _________ _________ __
From: allen_282 <allen_282@yahoo. com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 12:04:49 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *04 cars


cars ending 04 thru Bieber 1947 4th quarter

GN 38
ATSF 24
PFE 16
WP 16
DRGW 14
SP 12
IC 10
PRR, SFRD, SOU 9
CBQ , CNW 6
ART, MP, NP, SAL, UTLX 4
BO, FGE, MILW, NKP, NYC 3
CSVX, IGN, LAPX, LN, MDT, PLE, UP, WFE, ALTON/CA 2
SPS 1
strays:
CG CGW CP CRIP DTI FGEX GATX GTW NH NW NWX ?OB
SCCX SSW UCR WLE

What's with all the Southern cars?
Sou 261004 906 10/17 2127 10/17
Sou 166104 2005 10/13 258 10/13
Sou 261604 911 12/5 2017 12/5
Sou 148704 2126 11/21 203 11/21
Sou 13804 2107 11/7 203 11/7
Sou 13804 260 11/22 2019 11/22
Sou 11804 911 12/6 2007 12/6
Sou 116904 2127 10/13 906 10/13
Sou 116904 2127 12/7 911 12/7

SAL
SAL 17304 254 11/9 2008 11/9
Sal 15604 2101 10/26 205 10/26
Sal 17604 202 11/11 2127 11/11
SAL 19704 2019 12/27 201 12/28

For Dave, till I get a photo it would look like:
...
"Recvd: SAL 17 304 254 11/9"
"Forwd: 2008 - "
...
"Recvd: Sal 15 604 2101 10/26"
"Forwd: 205 - "
...
"Recvd: Sal 17 604 202 11/11"
"Forwd: 2127 -"
...
"Recvd: SAL 19 704 2019 12/27"
"Forwd: 201 12/28"

WP engine numbers are < 1000, GN's are generally >1000.
so 17304 17604 were northbound, 15604, 19704 were south bound

the trailing 3 digits are preprinted in the book.
of course yahoo will mangle it.
Allen Rueter

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Stan's long stock car

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I have been in a similar situation a couple of times and found that it was necessary for me to rewrite the instructions myself and send them to the kit maker if I expected to see any change.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Propst

. . . The instructions made me laugh because they are written just like Stan talks. He did not included several of the assembly steps, so like most small maker kits, you're on your own. He does provide some poor photocopies of the constructed model. . . .

. . . Next time I talk to Stan I'll recommend he amends his instructions to make each step clearer to the builder.


Pennsy box car # PRR81945

scott_w_krause
 

Could someone tell me about PRR 81945 a box car with a dreadnaught end door. It is in a photograph that appears to be in the late 1940's or 50's. I am looking for what era this car would have been in service and what class of cars they were in. Were they build for a specific type of service?


Re: Wright Trak SAL gondola kit

Clark Cooper
 

I'm about 2/3 the way through my SAL gon that I also picked up at TrainFest. My kit came with the etched parts sprue and a weight that was too long, but no floor. Despite the recommendations, I used the etched parts where I could since I paid good money for them. Oddly, however, the etched grabs are too wide for the precast bolt detail on the ends of the car, so I made some out of brass wire.

Does anyone know of any online photos of this car? Google isn't being very helpful.

Thanks.
Clark Cooper
Iowa City Iowa

On Nov 24, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Clark Propst wrote:

I just decaled one side of the gon and about had a heart attack. The New Date on the decal sheet is 1957. I model 54. But, a quick glance at the prototype photos showed one with a reweigh date of 1950.

I find it extremely necessary to include a prototype data sheet with each model kit.

Decals are nice quality, no repack data though.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Shipping Christmas Trees

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

One isolated steam era example. On November 28, 1950 a carload of trees was shipped from Lincoln, ME to Unionbury NJ in NYC 164513. The car arrived at Unionbury on the RV on December 4. The routing was MEC, B&M, NH, CNJ, RV. That was the only car of trees billed through the RV Aldine, NJ agency in December of 1950. If I am reading the delivery notice correctly, an individual apparantly purchased the trees in Maine and shipped them to herself in Unionbury. NYC 164513 was built in 1947.

John King.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, bill Vaughn <atsfmodlr@...> wrote:

By 1978 I remember swithcing 50' double door cars with Christmas trees.  But again very old and on there last legs.  Some may not have made the empty return trip.
 
Bill Vaughn

--- On Tue, 11/24/09, charles slater <atsfcondr42@...> wrote:


From: charles slater <atsfcondr42@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Shipping Christmas Trees
To: "STMFC List" <stmfc@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 10:39 AM



I worked as a switchman in L.A. from 1970-1984 and at least up until 1975 we would handle box cars only loaded with Christmas trees beginning in late November up until mid December for Safeway and Market Basket (two large grocery stores chaines in Southern Calif) and they would arrive in the oldest junk 40 foot box cars. The trees were loaded crosswise in the cars about 6 to 8 feet high and top iced with crushed ice blown into the cars and covered the trees about 12" thick. Sometimes the doors were closed and sometimes they were left open. And sometimes a few were missing when the cars arrived in L.A. The stores allways gave us a tree when we delivered the cars to them if we wanted one.

These cars were old NP, SP&S, GN, Milw, SP, CB&Q and just about anything from the northwest and all of these cars were in the last years of service.

These cars were delivered to their warehouses for unloading and trucked to the stores for sale. The only good thing about those cars is you could smell them a long ways off.

Charlie Slater   



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: pc66ot@...
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:00:35 -0800
Subject: [STMFC] Shipping Christmas Trees

 



Were Christmas Trees shipped in reefers? Were insulated boxcars around in enough numbers to be a reasonable alternative? (I model 1952) Did they, reefer loads of Christmas trees,  need to be iced, or simply kept at a reasonably cool temp?

Did these loads make up a significant "surge" in traffic to take up much of the unused slack in reefer fleets during November and December?

I ASSume November and December are slow months for Reefers. I know that many reefers were pressed into express service to handle the increased mail and express load as we got closer to Christmas, but did the shipment of trees make a dent in this use of reefers?

Were loads of cut trees sent to a metropolitan produce market's for distribution to retail outlets? Were cut trees a sort of "produce"?

Tons of questions but it sparked an interest. Thank you all in advance.

Paul Catapano

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                         
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Re: Centralia Car Shops

John Strenski
 

Dennis and Group:

I have this issue.

What I want is more Soo caboose kits.

I have four from their 1st run, but missed out on getting any from the 2nd.

John
WF TX

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "kjstrenski" <kjstrenski@> wrote:

Bill and Group:

I had sent two e-mails to Intermountain requesting info on the Soo caboose tooling and received no response. Sounds like this is why.

Without making you feel uncomfortable did that un-named manufacturer have any plans for the Soo caboose?

Thanks.

John
WF TX

No, because Ron just had my resin kit patterns copied after he bought the line from me.

Why not just order issue 24-2, Spring 2002 of The SOO from the society web site:

http://sooline.org/publications/theSOO/past.html

It has the same drawings I worked up for the kit patterns cleaned up for publication.

Dennis


Re: Type X tank car question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 24, 2009, at 9:38 AM, Frank Valoczy wrote:

Could anyone suggest where I might find good (as in, good for making a
model with) drawings of the Type X underframe?
Frank, there is a good drawing of the 6K gal. Type X underframe in
the 1906 Car Builders" Dictionary. If you don't have, or have access
to, a copy, I can scan it for you.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Coke questions

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

Beehive ovens were still in operation at Shoaf, Pa in February 1970. Shoaf is located south of Uniontown on a B&O branch which connected to B&O's Connellsville to Fairmont line at Smithfield. I came across the place on a cloudy damp winter day and the smoke (there was plenty of it) was hanging close to the ground.

John King

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

I used to work at one of the by-products plants here in Birmingham. The size is not the same as ballast. The lumps are generally between a softball and football in size. As for the color, it depends on coal it is coked from. Alabama coal leaves you with a darker coke than PA or KY coal. Generally though I would say to start with grimy black and lighten it just a bit. I do not have a color photo unfortunately.

I can tell you that black coke hoppers or gons should weather with a grayish black dust, ask anyone who has seen one of my trucks...My wife hated that place when I would come home with a nasty truck.

As for Bee-hive ovens, if you are modeling steel mills, iron furnaces, or coke ovens you will not be dealing with these unless you were modeling pre-1920 or so. This is the time period when the bee-hives were completely replaced by bee-hives. The "modern" ovens came about during that time.

If more information were available about the Mary Lee, Alabama Consolidated Co. and Sloss-Sheffield railroad equipment pre-diesel era, I would be tempted to model the Mary Lee instead of the Southern Rwy. Very interesting railroad.

Jason Greene
Birmingham, AL

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Coke questions

Jason Greene
 

The picture of the coke ovens in South Wales on the Wiki page is identical to those at the Jim Walter site at North Birmingham, AL.

Jason Greene
Birmingham, AL

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem


Red Caboose Boxcar Kits Needed

John Hitzeman
 

To STMFC List,

I'm in need of one, preferably two, Undec. Red Caboose #RC-8001
Square Corner 10' IH AAR 1937 Boxcar kits.

I will pay up to $30.00 each for "mint" kits, or trade $40.00
to $45.00 (each) worth of currently available LASERKit
merchandise for each kit. I'll also pay postage.

Please contact me off list if you can help.

Thanks to the List -

John

John Hitzeman
President/Owner
American Model Builders, Inc.
LASERKit (tm)
Our 27th Year!
St. Louis, MO
www.rgspemkt.com
www.ambstlouis.net
www.laserkit.com
amermodel@sbglobal.net
laserkit@sbcglobal.net


Re: Centralia Car Shops

jerryglow2
 

Actually it was for the last of the IMWX cars before Jerry Porter sold to RC. Randy Wilson an independent SoCal mold maker made the tool for the roof and ran it at a molding shop up the street from my shop in Brea CA. In fact, Randy brought it by to lightly bead blast it prior to running it. Somewhere I have some of the very first shots. I spoke to Frank Angstad (sp?) of Intermountain who was familiar with all this and had just been to the west coast leading me to believe it is that tool being used for Intermountain's Viking roof on their war emergency car.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Right, CCS is custom Intermountain tooling. DPH also has a
line of custom tooled S scale models. I believe it was DPH
who had the Viking roof made for the Red Caboose 1937 box cars.
I wish more retailers would take such a pro-active approach to
the hobby!

Tim O'Connor


Jerry,

AFAIK, Centrailia is still owned by Des Plaines Hobbies. See:

http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/store/

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


Exact Rail Models

Bill Welch
 

In a periodic update from Central Hobby Supply they mention they will carrying models from Exact Rail Models. Although too modern for all but the "Rubber Era"* modelers among us, they do represent a new kid on the block with potential to produce things for us. Some of us will recognize one of the principles in this new company. Here is a link: http://www.exactrail.com/

Bill Welch

* similar to "Rubber Scalers" who model across two, three or even four scales or more

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