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Don Winter's Project

JGG KahnSr <jacekahn@...>
 

Don
I suspect relatively few of the G scale fellows care to build (there are exceptions, and most of them are very notable exceptions, such as George Konrad and Joel Crea), so anything which required more than opening the box was too great a challenge. As you pointed out, just about all your 0n3 sold well (and still brings a premium when it shows up at a meet or on eBay), so why not do standard gage O scale? We have had nothing like the proliferation of high-quality, prototypically-correct freight cars which HO has had in the last fifteen years or so, all at what look to us like very reasonable prices. 500? A good specialized run of 0 scale cars rarely gets up to 2-300 and sells out (and appears to recoup the makers costs, unless there is enormous die-work); Chooch makes far fewer, so far as I know, and seems satisfied. San Juan makes great kits (mostly 0n3) but they come out slowly and leave a lot of the steam-era field still uncovered. Al Westefield has told me he has no interest in making 0 scale, so just consider that even four or five of his prototypes in 0 scale would create a sensation.
Jace Kahn

I picked several for 1:20.3 and none of them amounted to anything, and some
literally nothing; thus I am more cautious this time. No living needed, not
too much concerned about profit; life was good to me, now retired and all
that jazz; but, it ain't no fun to spend weeks making master patterns and in
some cases when the item was ready getting orders for exactly zero, not
three but zero...literally zero. Now of I made something so esoteric that
no one would want it, I could understand. But an example. Accucraft
brought in C&S number 60. No one makes C&S cars or even the hardware. So I
made the truck patterns and cast them up, offered them for $33 pair ppd
whereas serious trucks in that scale normally sell for $40-$85. To date,
have sold zero. Gave one pair to a friend.

I do not want a repeat of this in HO land where THEORECTICALLY the number of
modellers is higher. But when split into microcosms, maybe the same number
in each 'cosm?

But twenty years ago, I did around 10,000 kits in On3 and sold them all no
matter how goofy. Today's modelers rarely build anything. Kits are passe'
for all practical purposes, save structures.

I like steam era mainline cars. That's why I joined the list. If nothing
else I'll keep buying the available ones for myself and meanwhile ponder if
something viable jumps out at me.

Don Winter





Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks


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Re: Kit Candidates for Don Winter (was: Intermountain down the tubes?)

Don Winter <guaruba@...>
 

OK, Des Plaines. Thanks also again! Please realize can't contact eveyone
though! Don


Re: Kit Candidates for Don Winter (was: Intermountain down the tubes?)

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Ben,

You haven't been paying attention...Bowser is
currently tooling a N8 even as we speak!

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ
--- benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

On the other hand, Bowser's
PRR cabin car sales
apparently haven't met their expectations, or at
least that's been
their excuse for why they won't do the Class N8
cabins ("Thou shalt
be condemned to kitbash your N8s from Tyco
bodies!").

Might be worth giving the guys at Des Plaines
Hobbies a call if you
want to do a caboose.


Ben Hom

Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 059: Free advice is
seldom cheap.


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Re: Intermountain down the tubes?

Don Winter <guaruba@...>
 

Bill, I am on so many lists now. If I get that far, I will join. Don


Re: Kit Candidates for Don Winter (was: Intermountain down the tubes?)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Don Winter wrote:

I figured a needed missing caboose might be a good bet. Tooling is
simply my labor so not problem there. It is the incentive to do the
second car if the first doesn't sell which means a second car never
happens. 500 is ok in volume.


From what I've heard, cabooses appear to be somewhat of a crapshoot
because they represent an item contrary to the widely-held formula
for a high-sales injection molded kit: a kit limited to few possible
railroads (i.e., paint schemes).

That being said, the last two manufacturers to put out caboose kits
have had different levels of success. Des Plaines appears to have
done well with their series of cabooses, including an IC car which
most of us wouldn't have expected to be a good seller (those IC fans
must be real quiet). On the other hand, Bowser's PRR cabin car sales
apparently haven't met their expectations, or at least that's been
their excuse for why they won't do the Class N8 cabins ("Thou shalt
be condemned to kitbash your N8s from Tyco bodies!").

Might be worth giving the guys at Des Plaines Hobbies a call if you
want to do a caboose.


Ben Hom

Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 059: Free advice is seldom cheap.


Re: Intermountain down the tubes?

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Don,

If you get on the SP list, there are a lot of people
there who could be of invaluable help. The 1981
Southern Pacific Review carried an extensive article
on these cabooses, including a (sort-of) accurate
drawing of one. Joe Strapac, who did these books, is
on the list.

Bill Daniels
--- Don Winter <guaruba@...> wrote:
The SP Caboose sounds like a better bet. Don


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Re: Intermountain down the tubes?

Don Winter <guaruba@...>
 

The SP Caboose sounds like a better bet. Don


Re: Intermountain down the tubes?

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Don,

How about an SP steel cupola caboose...there are a lot
of SP modelers who would kill for an affordable one. I
would hazard a guess that 500 would disappear in a
heartbeat (especially if they were of excellent
quality). A flat kit wouldn't be any problem...you
wouldn't be building a huge fleet of these.

You might float a trial ballon on the SP list...

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ
--- Don Winter <guaruba@...> wrote:
I figured a needed missing caboose might be a good
bet. Tooling is simply
my labor so not problem there. It is the incentive
to do the second car if
the first doesn;t sell which means a second car
never happens. 500 is ok in
volume. Don


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Re: Intermountain down the tubes?

Don Winter <guaruba@...>
 

I figured a needed missing caboose might be a good bet. Tooling is simply
my labor so not problem there. It is the incentive to do the second car if
the first doesn;t sell which means a second car never happens. 500 is ok in
volume. Don


Re: Intermountain down the tubes?

Don Winter <guaruba@...>
 

Schuyler, hmmm...500 low? I'll mull that over. Don


Re: Resin Review

LAURANCE ROBERT KING <ab8180@...>
 

What is Kaslo's address?

LR King


Re: Georgia 29000-29049

Paul Lyons
 

Ted-I would like to buy a couple of the extra door castings if you make them.
I have no real desire to do that "kitbash" again. Any input on my questions
about the width of the end ladders, brake stand support location points, and
end tack board locations?
Paul Lyons
Oceanside, CA


Re: Resin Review

Gary Roe
 

Bill Darnaby wrote:

If this review is of interest to the list I can provide more as I am in the
middle of plowing through a large backlog of resin kits.




Bill,

This type of information is extremely helpful to someone like me who has yet
to construct his first resin kit (even tho I have quite a few).

gary roe


Re: Intermountain down the tubes?

thompson@...
 

Oh GREAT another convention car I'll never see... Those Espee
USRA gondolas disappeared like hotcakes at a church breakfast.
If this is true I'm gonna have to snag me a "convention buddy"
who will grab a bunch for me before they're gone too...
Maybe there's a message being sent out into the ether by the convention
organizers, Tim...

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Intermountain down the tubes?

thompson@...
 

Tim sez:
Or how
about some nice gondolas -- 48' foot NKP cars, 52' PRR G31D, 65 foot
welded cars of the late 50's...
No, no, TIm, it's a PRR G35 we want, cuz we can use it for SP too.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Rock Island Fowler Cars

Gene Deimling <endeimling@...>
 

That is a good question. I have to look through some of Blalock's old stuff
and see if did Rock.
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Morrill [mailto:badlands@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 4:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Rock Island Fowler Cars


Jace and Gene,
I also have one of the San Juan Fowler cars tucked away in the storage to
use to make a C&NW car. Now I'm going to order another kit to make a RI
version. What lettering is available in O?

I'm concentrating on building composite construction cars now while the
layout is in freeze mode (San Juan WP, Chooch NP, etc). Got too many '37
AAR and later cars in proportion for my 1950 time period.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "JGG KahnSr" <jacekahn@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Rock Island Fowler Cars



Dear Ted
I second Charlie's motion; this month's offering is just full of great
modelling ideas! And if Charlie's mind and mine are moving along the same
track, we are thinking that the San Juan Fowler in 0 scale would look very
good in Rock Island lettering. My first SJ Fowler will use the MicroScale
Omaha set I bought for it, but I had been wondering what to do with the
other one I picked up this spring, and I have too few RI cars.
Jace Kahn

Another great photo!
If I'm looking at the correct car, the one in the yard has wood ends like
the D&RGW version of the Fowler boxcar.
Charlie
It's in the "middle" of the picture, at the end of a
string of cars. There are quite a few photos floating
around of these cars with the steel ends, as
referenced in the earlier posts.
Ted

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Models, Selling Models, etc.

golden1014
 

Brothers,

I think we may be overlooking the basics: 1) If you
produce an obscure car in an obscure scale, you won't
sell many. Period. 2) If you produce an excellent
model of a popular car--especially one that doesn't
already exist (a few SP prototypes were brought up
already)--you'll sell more than you can make if you
market properly. Don't lose track of that when
comparing scales, past experiences, etc.

Also, my .02 cents about operating HO doors. The
operating doors on Intermountain 1937 box cars and
Kadee cars are excellent, and lend a nice dynamic to
the model. Frankly, I wish all my box cars had
operating doors of such quality. There's no giant
claws like on the Athearn cars, so assuming that
operating doors = bad model is unrealistic these days.

See you all in Oakland!
John Golden

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Re: Rock Island Fowler Cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Does anyone know how how Rio Grande and Rock Island happened to get
identical (or nearly so) cars ?

jack Mullen
Weren't they both Jay Gould roads at one time?


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Admin Comment

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Guys, how about doing everyone a favor and make better use of the subject
when sending a message? It takes time to read these messages. "Intermountain
down the tubes?" has little to do with SP F-70-7 flat cars.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Rock Island Fowler Cars

moonmuln <mullen.lahr@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., "JGG KahnSr" <jacekahn@h...> wrote:
... we are thinking that the San Juan Fowler in 0 scale would
look very good in Rock Island lettering...

Yes, the Rock Island cars with wood ends appear to match the D&RGW
cars in all the features I can distinguish in fuzzy photos. The steel
end cars seem to be the same, except for the end. In fact, I have an
extra San Juan kit squirrelled away with the intent of doing that
kitbash someday. It will be quite a while before I crank up the
ambition to scratchbuild the ends - maybe in the meantime a suitable
part will appear!

M&StL had similar cars (copies of the RI cars ?), so there's one more
prototype.

Does anyone know how how Rio Grande and Rock Island happened to get
identical (or nearly so) cars ?

jack Mullen

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